Official JTR speaker thread - Page 532 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:20 AM
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debating getting my Slanted8's refinished with rear veneer, have to pay for shipping 1 way on my 6 slanted 8's, and half the refinishing costs. This has me debating whether i can live with seeing the rear of the slanted 8s
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:23 AM
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what you already knew? Have you had subs other than the OS's?
Let's not go there. You've got your take, I've got mine. smile.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:28 AM
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Let's not go there. You've got your take, I've got mine. smile.gif

Well, you took a jab at me with your response, so lets see why you don't think it's worth it...... wink.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:39 AM
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Turn up your heater Asim!! tongue.gif

It came down to paying for JTRs or heating the house. tongue.gif
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:41 AM
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^^^hahaha

On another note....I tried to do some measuring today on my S2 and my sound card seems to be clipping. What are you guys using for measuring equipment?

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:42 AM
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Well, you took a jab at me with your response, so lets see why you don't think it's worth it...... wink.gif
I took a jab at you? I didn't jab at anybody. Different tastes, different goals. It's all good by me. smile.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 09:44 AM
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I took a jab at you? I didn't jab at anybody. Different tastes, different goals. It's all good by me. smile.gif
Come down to SoCal and I will enlighten you my friend. tongue.gif

Just kidding bud. lol
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Old 02-08-2014, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

debating getting my Slanted8's refinished with rear veneer, have to pay for shipping 1 way on my 6 slanted 8's, and half the refinishing costs. This has me debating whether i can live with seeing the rear of the slanted 8s

I assume you were looking for opinions ....

They look fine, mount them up and forgetaboutit.

This looks like an interesting mount:
MCM Custom Audio 50-10890 Heavy Duty Speaker Ceiling or Wall Mount Pair - 66lb Capacity

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:01 AM
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N8dogg, I've tried really hard, but I can't hear anything under 20Hz. Popalock's awesomekickbuttgiveadogabone sounding 16 18" drivers tried really hard, but they were like mute fans blowing sweet nothings of air puffs under 20Hz. What am I missing?
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

^^^hahaha

On another note....I tried to do some measuring today on my S2 and my sound card seems to be clipping. What are you guys using for measuring equipment?

We basically tried the make our ears bleed test yesterday, but hope to use austin's omnimic and laptop next time. I don't own a windows lappy frown.gif
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

N8dogg, I've tried really hard, but I can't hear anything under 20Hz. Popalock's awesomekickbuttgiveadogabone sounding 16 18" drivers tried really hard, but they were like mute fans blowing sweet nothings of air puffs under 20Hz. What am I missing?

You guys sitting on concrete slabs??
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

N8dogg, I've tried really hard, but I can't hear anything under 20Hz. Popalock's awesomekickbuttgiveadogabone sounding 16 18" drivers tried really hard, but they were like mute fans blowing sweet nothings of air puffs under 20Hz. What am I missing?

You don't hear anything under 20hz, for most people under 20hz is inaudible BUT with a high enough powered system, the effect is amazing. It's not for everyone (mostly because of cost and size) but I'd say you venture over to the DIY thread and see what people are building to experience such effects. I purpose built 2 x G-horns that would have the output of 6-8 of the SI 18's under 20hz each (keep in mind the SI's are not low freq monsters compared to some high excursion drivers)..... Now add 8 x 21's and 4 more high excursion 18's and I think you'd understand.

Some don't think it's worth it, thats fine but there are lots of us that do and we have the funds to do it, so its just fun! I had a Emotiva member over hear Thursday night and we were playing tones at 10hz and his face was the funniest thing I've seen in a while!

I've got a 13 x 25 x 8 room and around 4 os's worth of output above 20hz and 8-10 os's output under 20hz.....

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:23 AM
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You guys sitting on concrete slabs??

I could only imagine if I had all my stuff on a wood sub floor hahahaha.

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:27 AM
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You guys sitting on concrete slabs??

Yes, basement and foundation is concrete.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You don't hear anything under 20hz, for most people under 20hz is inaudible BUT with a high enough powered system, the effect is amazing. It's not for everyone (mostly because of cost and size) but I'd say you venture over to the DIY thread and see what people are building to experience such effects. I purpose built 2 x G-horns that would have the output of 6-8 of the SI 18's under 20hz each (keep in mind the SI's are not low freq monsters compared to some high excursion drivers)..... Now add 8 x 21's and 4 more high excursion 18's and I think you'd understand.

Some don't think it's worth it, thats fine but there are lots of us that do and we have the funds to do it, so its just fun! I had a Emotiva member over hear Thursday night and we were playing tones at 10hz and his face was the funniest thing I've seen in a while!

I've got a 13 x 25 x 8 room and around 4 os's worth of output above 20hz and 8-10 os's output under 20hz.....

My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:41 AM
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Yes, basement and foundation is concrete.
It's tough to get that ULF effect in a bunker without throwing an army of subs in the room like n8 has done. Most homes out here in my part of town are built on wooden structures so you feel a lot more of the under 20hz frequencies. IMO it's totally worth it and adds weight to the soundtrack.

FYI: I run my subs flat to around 17hz then have a slight house curve from there.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

You don't hear anything under 20hz, for most people under 20hz is inaudible BUT with a high enough powered system, the effect is amazing. It's not for everyone (mostly because of cost and size) but I'd say you venture over to the DIY thread and see what people are building to experience such effects. I purpose built 2 x G-horns that would have the output of 6-8 of the SI 18's under 20hz each (keep in mind the SI's are not low freq monsters compared to some high excursion drivers)..... Now add 8 x 21's and 4 more high excursion 18's and I think you'd understand.

Some don't think it's worth it, thats fine but there are lots of us that do and we have the funds to do it, so its just fun! I had a Emotiva member over hear Thursday night and we were playing tones at 10hz and his face was the funniest thing I've seen in a while!

I've got a 13 x 25 x 8 room and around 4 os's worth of output above 20hz and 8-10 os's output under 20hz.....

I knew you tons of output but when you put it in those terms....yikes eek.gifsmile.gif
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:46 AM
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[/quote]
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Come down to SoCal and I will enlighten you my friend. tongue.gif

Just kidding bud. lol

Yes, you guys have an almost evangelical fervor over this ULF stuff and I think it's great ... for you ... wink.gif

If I were inclined to pursue this Pot of Gold it would be via one of these, not 27 18's powered by a gigawatt. smile.gif

With the $26K Thigpen Thingy, I could finally enjoy all 10-15 seconds of those unintended infrasonics in each and every Bruce Willis movie ... LOL cool.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 10:59 AM
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The thigpen is only for 1hz to 15hz...... You'd still need 27 x 18's powered by a giggawatt for anything above that.... wink.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 11:16 AM
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With the $26K Thigpen Thingy, I could finally enjoy all 10-15 seconds of those unintended infrasonics in each and every Bruce Willis movie ... LOL cool.gif

Hey, don't knock it. Those are some of the best 10-15 seconds ever! biggrin.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 11:17 AM
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My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:01 PM
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My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

For me, not unlike miniht, the entire body effect is addictive. The "under water effect" will make you giggle like a little school girl. Your entire body almost feels like you will levitate in your seat. It also sounds like you are talking into a giant, really slow moving fan lol. There are lots of movies with some serious subsonic content, there is a master list on the DIY thread with most of them and waterfall charts.

I've got a guy coming on Sunday for an adutition, looking for JTR stuff and another form the Emotiva forum hopefully coming at the same time for a little fun before the Noesis are on their way to Brents place.
Neother of the 2 other guys have ever even heard a hardcore HT, BrentTHX on the other hand, had extensive experience and I'm sure know what to expect, although I didn't go very crazy since my 3 month old daughter was sleeping upstairs.. ( my wife said she didn't even bat an eye at how loud we had it in the basement.... Thats my girl!!! lol) So I'm gonna give the 2 other guys the business.... biggrin.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

debating getting my Slanted8's refinished with rear veneer, have to pay for shipping 1 way on my 6 slanted 8's, and half the refinishing costs. This has me debating whether i can live with seeing the rear of the slanted 8s

I like the one recommendation of putting like a curved black velvet or whatever your preference type cloth behind to hide all of the mounts and such. Actually thinking about it you would want acoustically transparent cloth to avoid any partial reflections. I have a thicker black micro suede fabric I bought from ATS acoustics and after getting my hands on it it seemed thick and not acoustically transparent. Such that it was difficult to blow any air through it. I then draped large pieces over the speakers and subs and ran a 5-20,000 sweep to find it took a very straight decline at about 2,000. Surprising because they use it on their wall absorption panels and it has a bit of reflective property. I guess that could be a good thing in a case to case room to room basis. anyway I will use them for bass traps only and could turn out to be a good thing and not over deadening a room which is measurable with REW...Anyway I say that to if that was an option in your mind to be cautious and knowing of your material choice smile.gifsmile.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:39 PM
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Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....

At popalock's ht, with 16 drivers, I got a tremendous amount of the wobble, shifting, and lots of the pressure you mention. It was an amazing experience. Later, I believe it was an LPF that was applied to allow only 20hz or below frequencies to pass thru, at which point everything went silent, the drivers could be seen just hiccuping, and I counted about 4-5 light puffs of air flirt with my knees. Of course, without any LPF with the same scene, the room was barreling, carp's track pants went flying, and the local news meteorologist reported an isolated change in atmospheric pressure at our location on the evening news. At that point, by just process of elimination, I began to wonder what exactly is one experiencing if it's not actually any frequency below 20Hz but other factors that are possibly being mistaken for it. By sheer numbers, 16 18" drivers produces serious bass, especially the model popalock researched and invested in, so I don't believe SI can be written off. I'm no expert by any means, just trying to understand all this logically.
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Old 02-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

For me, not unlike miniht, the entire body effect is addictive. The "under water effect" will make you giggle like a little school girl. Your entire body almost feels like you will levitate in your seat. It also sounds like you are talking into a giant, really slow moving fan lol. There are lots of movies with some serious subsonic content, there is a master list on the DIY thread with most of them and waterfall charts.

I've got a guy coming on Sunday for an adutition, looking for JTR stuff and another form the Emotiva forum hopefully coming at the same time for a little fun before the Noesis are on their way to Brents place.
Neother of the 2 other guys have ever even heard a hardcore HT, BrentTHX on the other hand, had extensive experience and I'm sure know what to expect, although I didn't go very crazy since my 3 month old daughter was sleeping upstairs.. ( my wife said she didn't even bat an eye at how loud we had it in the basement.... Thats my girl!!! lol) So I'm gonna give the 2 other guys the business.... biggrin.gif

Sitting on Jell-O, being underwater (on land) and giggling like a little school girl. Descriptions like these make it so hard to resist.

That's it, $26K Thigpen Thingy here I come. I'm quitting coffee and saving my Starbucks money. By 2020 I should be giggling like a little school girl in Jell-O too. cool.gifsmile.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 12:44 PM
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I'm no expert by any means, just trying to understand all this logically.

Well there's your problem, You are looking for logic in all of this magical thinking. smile.gif

I'm really sorry for my sacrasm. My comments are not unlike telling someone their baby is ugly ... redface.gif

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Old 02-08-2014, 01:01 PM
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My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

Here is my take...I think most ULF or properly termed ELF nuts would agree. The 25hz stuff is the main show. The explosions, chest impacts and 50 cal gun shots type effects. The stuff below is the supporting cast. The entire experience is best when both are present and working together. When the ULF supporting cast is not present in some movies coming out I feel it is lacking and incomplete. But, and a big but...I still enjoy it because the main show is still there. For example the movie pacific rim has a 30hz roll off. Still greatly enjoyed it. But the WWZ grenade explosion that is extremely hot to 11hz and has output to 5-6hz. That is 100% on purpose by the sound engineer because in real life a grenade creates frequencies we can't hear. So to say ULF are artifacts mistakenly placed is a false statement. My observation is some don't understand the ULF chase and therefore sort of mock it in a friendly way. Or some in a not so friendly way. And thats because its not as impressive or not what they thought.
My dual subversives which both are close on my front wall at the 1/4 and 3/4 points optimally placed proven by measurements. Then my manual EQ was less which is good. I ran a 110db sweep and am flat to 7hz at least at those SPL levels. My house sounded like it was going to die so I dare not try higher but both Submersives are on a single 15amp circuit which tells us there was quite a bit left if the breaker didn't flip. Again, small room and sitting 8ft from my TV so not all only two Submersive (4-15's with 4800 watts) can reach those levels down low in larger rooms. I feel one of the best examples of the unheard and heard bass working together is the Hulk fight scene with the abomination. It has good hotness from 65-70hz all the way down to 5hz. The hulks steps and stomps have REAL impact that would not happen if the sound engineers put a 20-30hz filter. Big trucks, fighter jets, and even things like a human moving a large object can create ULF. So it is very real and relevant. Now on the flip side I think just ULF is no fun. Its cool yes but by its lonesome not as impressive as teamed with hearable bass. Lets look at the washington monument scene in Olympus has Fallen. dead 20hz hotness. It actually calls for 127hz at reference flat run systems (total guess the on the number but in the 120's for sure). It is the scene that has asked the most SPL's from subs ever in human history on blu ray (again going from people I feel are trustworthy and professional sound engineers on these forums). It is impressive, ask Carp he loves it and the only scene to ever pop his breaker on his specially ran line for his 8 SI 18's. I feel it is fun but lacking because it doesn't have much over 40hz. And not much up in 60hz. Anyway point proven I think and perspectives offered. smile.gif



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Old 02-08-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.

Thats very good actually and spot on I think too. It's all SOOOO room dependent. Heck, lots of setups issues, goods and bads with acoustics is all about the room. One enlightening statement I heard once was..."The room is truly the speaker." Obviously a 4593BMS compression driver opposed to a cheap one will help smile.gif

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I miss Giants baseball!
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Old 02-08-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

N8dogg, I've tried really hard, but I can't hear anything under 20Hz. Popalock's awesomekickbuttgiveadogabone sounding 16 18" drivers tried really hard, but they were like mute fans blowing sweet nothings of air puffs under 20Hz. What am I missing?

I think we can push that number lower Asim... In my room (to my ears) I can "hear" down to 14Hz or so good. Yes, it starts to become very tacticle down that low, but I guarantee you can "hear" below 20Hz. Now, if you combine that 14Hz (and below) with everything else going on in a movie, it might be a different story.

Since the OS LFU has "useful output below 10Hz in room," the strong 17Hz in this song should be very audible even on the OS. Give it a shot if you get around to it and let us know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16MKQXHDmc

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.

lol...yeah, that would be awesome.

Damn room!

On another note, I got a bit more time with the OS Noesis combo yesterday at Asim's. Definitely going to have to make some time (hopefully this weekend) to bring over my miniDSP and laptop so we can get some work done!

Watching Scuba Steve's demo disk in Asim's room was a COMPLETELY different experience than in my room... Especially the Flight of the Phoenix clip. I can't wait to see what kind of response is going on at his MLP and helping him setup a sweet house curve.

Soooo much potential...
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