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post #16021 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 10:59 AM
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The thigpen is only for 1hz to 15hz...... You'd still need 27 x 18's powered by a giggawatt for anything above that.... wink.gif

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post #16022 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

With the $26K Thigpen Thingy, I could finally enjoy all 10-15 seconds of those unintended infrasonics in each and every Bruce Willis movie ... LOL cool.gif

Hey, don't knock it. Those are some of the best 10-15 seconds ever! biggrin.gif

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post #16023 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....
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post #16024 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

For me, not unlike miniht, the entire body effect is addictive. The "under water effect" will make you giggle like a little school girl. Your entire body almost feels like you will levitate in your seat. It also sounds like you are talking into a giant, really slow moving fan lol. There are lots of movies with some serious subsonic content, there is a master list on the DIY thread with most of them and waterfall charts.

I've got a guy coming on Sunday for an adutition, looking for JTR stuff and another form the Emotiva forum hopefully coming at the same time for a little fun before the Noesis are on their way to Brents place.
Neother of the 2 other guys have ever even heard a hardcore HT, BrentTHX on the other hand, had extensive experience and I'm sure know what to expect, although I didn't go very crazy since my 3 month old daughter was sleeping upstairs.. ( my wife said she didn't even bat an eye at how loud we had it in the basement.... Thats my girl!!! lol) So I'm gonna give the 2 other guys the business.... biggrin.gif

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post #16025 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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debating getting my Slanted8's refinished with rear veneer, have to pay for shipping 1 way on my 6 slanted 8's, and half the refinishing costs. This has me debating whether i can live with seeing the rear of the slanted 8s

I like the one recommendation of putting like a curved black velvet or whatever your preference type cloth behind to hide all of the mounts and such. Actually thinking about it you would want acoustically transparent cloth to avoid any partial reflections. I have a thicker black micro suede fabric I bought from ATS acoustics and after getting my hands on it it seemed thick and not acoustically transparent. Such that it was difficult to blow any air through it. I then draped large pieces over the speakers and subs and ran a 5-20,000 sweep to find it took a very straight decline at about 2,000. Surprising because they use it on their wall absorption panels and it has a bit of reflective property. I guess that could be a good thing in a case to case room to room basis. anyway I will use them for bass traps only and could turn out to be a good thing and not over deadening a room which is measurable with REW...Anyway I say that to if that was an option in your mind to be cautious and knowing of your material choice smile.gifsmile.gif

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post #16026 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:27 PM
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I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.
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post #16027 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by MiniHT View Post

Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....

At popalock's ht, with 16 drivers, I got a tremendous amount of the wobble, shifting, and lots of the pressure you mention. It was an amazing experience. Later, I believe it was an LPF that was applied to allow only 20hz or below frequencies to pass thru, at which point everything went silent, the drivers could be seen just hiccuping, and I counted about 4-5 light puffs of air flirt with my knees. Of course, without any LPF with the same scene, the room was barreling, carp's track pants went flying, and the local news meteorologist reported an isolated change in atmospheric pressure at our location on the evening news. At that point, by just process of elimination, I began to wonder what exactly is one experiencing if it's not actually any frequency below 20Hz but other factors that are possibly being mistaken for it. By sheer numbers, 16 18" drivers produces serious bass, especially the model popalock researched and invested in, so I don't believe SI can be written off. I'm no expert by any means, just trying to understand all this logically.

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post #16028 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MiniHT View Post

Not N8, but the effects I get with content under 18-20hz is awesome. I get a crazy "wobble" or "shifting" effect as opposed to a vibration/rumble.... I've said it before but I'll say it again, it's like I'm sitting on JELL-O. In addition to that, I get a build up of pressure..... which I love.... this is the "under water" effect that everyone talks about. I don't have the ability to add a LPF, so I can't JUST hear the stuff under ~20hz. What I can tell you is that movies with no/very little content under ~20hz... there is absolutely no "wobble" and no pressure build what so ever in my room. Like others have already said, it really adds weight to the scene and I wouldn't have it any other way!

Also, I'm on a suspended wooden floor so I'm sure this plays a big role....

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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

For me, not unlike miniht, the entire body effect is addictive. The "under water effect" will make you giggle like a little school girl. Your entire body almost feels like you will levitate in your seat. It also sounds like you are talking into a giant, really slow moving fan lol. There are lots of movies with some serious subsonic content, there is a master list on the DIY thread with most of them and waterfall charts.

I've got a guy coming on Sunday for an adutition, looking for JTR stuff and another form the Emotiva forum hopefully coming at the same time for a little fun before the Noesis are on their way to Brents place.
Neother of the 2 other guys have ever even heard a hardcore HT, BrentTHX on the other hand, had extensive experience and I'm sure know what to expect, although I didn't go very crazy since my 3 month old daughter was sleeping upstairs.. ( my wife said she didn't even bat an eye at how loud we had it in the basement.... Thats my girl!!! lol) So I'm gonna give the 2 other guys the business.... biggrin.gif

Sitting on Jell-O, being underwater (on land) and giggling like a little school girl. Descriptions like these make it so hard to resist.

That's it, $26K Thigpen Thingy here I come. I'm quitting coffee and saving my Starbucks money. By 2020 I should be giggling like a little school girl in Jell-O too. cool.gifsmile.gif

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post #16029 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 12:44 PM
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I'm no expert by any means, just trying to understand all this logically.

Well there's your problem, You are looking for logic in all of this magical thinking. smile.gif

I'm really sorry for my sacrasm. My comments are not unlike telling someone their baby is ugly ... redface.gif

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post #16030 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

My understanding is also that average humans can't hear below 20Hz, which also only decreases with age. What specific effects are you getting when sending the subs only frequencies below 20Hz from bass heavy movie scenes?

Here is my take...I think most ULF or properly termed ELF nuts would agree. The 25hz stuff is the main show. The explosions, chest impacts and 50 cal gun shots type effects. The stuff below is the supporting cast. The entire experience is best when both are present and working together. When the ULF supporting cast is not present in some movies coming out I feel it is lacking and incomplete. But, and a big but...I still enjoy it because the main show is still there. For example the movie pacific rim has a 30hz roll off. Still greatly enjoyed it. But the WWZ grenade explosion that is extremely hot to 11hz and has output to 5-6hz. That is 100% on purpose by the sound engineer because in real life a grenade creates frequencies we can't hear. So to say ULF are artifacts mistakenly placed is a false statement. My observation is some don't understand the ULF chase and therefore sort of mock it in a friendly way. Or some in a not so friendly way. And thats because its not as impressive or not what they thought.
My dual subversives which both are close on my front wall at the 1/4 and 3/4 points optimally placed proven by measurements. Then my manual EQ was less which is good. I ran a 110db sweep and am flat to 7hz at least at those SPL levels. My house sounded like it was going to die so I dare not try higher but both Submersives are on a single 15amp circuit which tells us there was quite a bit left if the breaker didn't flip. Again, small room and sitting 8ft from my TV so not all only two Submersive (4-15's with 4800 watts) can reach those levels down low in larger rooms. I feel one of the best examples of the unheard and heard bass working together is the Hulk fight scene with the abomination. It has good hotness from 65-70hz all the way down to 5hz. The hulks steps and stomps have REAL impact that would not happen if the sound engineers put a 20-30hz filter. Big trucks, fighter jets, and even things like a human moving a large object can create ULF. So it is very real and relevant. Now on the flip side I think just ULF is no fun. Its cool yes but by its lonesome not as impressive as teamed with hearable bass. Lets look at the washington monument scene in Olympus has Fallen. dead 20hz hotness. It actually calls for 127hz at reference flat run systems (total guess the on the number but in the 120's for sure). It is the scene that has asked the most SPL's from subs ever in human history on blu ray (again going from people I feel are trustworthy and professional sound engineers on these forums). It is impressive, ask Carp he loves it and the only scene to ever pop his breaker on his specially ran line for his 8 SI 18's. I feel it is fun but lacking because it doesn't have much over 40hz. And not much up in 60hz. Anyway point proven I think and perspectives offered. smile.gif



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post #16031 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.

Thats very good actually and spot on I think too. It's all SOOOO room dependent. Heck, lots of setups issues, goods and bads with acoustics is all about the room. One enlightening statement I heard once was..."The room is truly the speaker." Obviously a 4593BMS compression driver opposed to a cheap one will help smile.gif

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post #16032 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

N8dogg, I've tried really hard, but I can't hear anything under 20Hz. Popalock's awesomekickbuttgiveadogabone sounding 16 18" drivers tried really hard, but they were like mute fans blowing sweet nothings of air puffs under 20Hz. What am I missing?

I think we can push that number lower Asim... In my room (to my ears) I can "hear" down to 14Hz or so good. Yes, it starts to become very tacticle down that low, but I guarantee you can "hear" below 20Hz. Now, if you combine that 14Hz (and below) with everything else going on in a movie, it might be a different story.

Since the OS LFU has "useful output below 10Hz in room," the strong 17Hz in this song should be very audible even on the OS. Give it a shot if you get around to it and let us know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16MKQXHDmc

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I'm in the middle on this one. In Austin's room I thought the effect below 15hz were much more obvious in the room (open no wall in between) next to his HT. I could feel it much more and my clothes were going nuts. Sitting in the room in the seats however it was more subtle.

I've been in a lot of rooms now and have come to the conclusion that it all depends on the room itself including of course the floor. If I got the same LF effect from the next room (Austin's room) combined with the incredible bass above 15hz ish while in the seats that would have been unreal, and I think some of you guys might be lucky enough to have both at the same time which is why you are so adamant about it.

lol...yeah, that would be awesome.

Damn room!

On another note, I got a bit more time with the OS Noesis combo yesterday at Asim's. Definitely going to have to make some time (hopefully this weekend) to bring over my miniDSP and laptop so we can get some work done!

Watching Scuba Steve's demo disk in Asim's room was a COMPLETELY different experience than in my room... Especially the Flight of the Phoenix clip. I can't wait to see what kind of response is going on at his MLP and helping him setup a sweet house curve.

Soooo much potential...
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post #16033 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 02:05 PM
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Austin,

Below tune the Orbit Shifter will act as just two sealed 18" subs.

Don't go putting a 25dB ULFtard curve on his setup, and bottom his drivers.


Asim,

Make him strip down to two 18" drivers at his place and put the "special" ULF curve on his gear before he does it to yours.
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post #16034 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 02:47 PM
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Since the OS LFU has "useful output below 10Hz in room," the strong 17Hz in this song should be very audible even on the OS. Give it a shot if you get around to it and let us know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X16MKQXHDmc

Does that super low tone on Bass I love you only dig to 17hz? Huh....I certainly thought it was a single digit deal.

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post #16035 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 02:52 PM
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Does that super low tone on Bass I love you only dig to 17hz? Huh....I certainly thought it was a single digit deal.


The long drawn out note is centered at 17hz but there is a quick hitting "note" that is in the single digits (also repeats a lot). Watch your drivers, you'll see what I mean.
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post #16036 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 03:17 PM
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That's the 7hz beat right there carp! Lol
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post #16037 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 03:25 PM
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That's the 7hz beat right there carp! Lol


Ha, yep - clipped the crap out of the big boy Crown amp when I had 4 of my SI's over at Archaea's place. No bad sounds but very solid clip light everytime that quick tone played.
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post #16038 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 03:44 PM
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Ha, yep - clipped the crap out of the big boy Crown amp when I had 4 of my SI's over at Archaea's place. No bad sounds but very solid clip light everytime that quick tone played.
I bet! That's the note that puts the hurt on at my place. The quads and clones definitely feel the pain with that one.
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post #16039 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Ha, yep - clipped the crap out of the big boy Crown amp when I had 4 of my SI's over at Archaea's place. No bad sounds but very solid clip light everytime that quick tone played.

Quote:
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I bet! That's the note that puts the hurt on at my place. The quads and clones definitely feel the pain with that one.

The OS should be ok though...

The goal wasn't the 7Hz note... Just wanted Asim to check it out to show him that his OS could play (and he can hear) below 20Hz.
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post #16040 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 05:12 PM
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Well there's your problem, You are looking for logic in all of this magical thinking. smile.gif

I'm really sorry for my sacrasm. My comments are not unlike telling someone their baby is ugly ... redface.gif

Why would someone not want have an entire system capable of everything? Flat right down to 10hz or even 5hz? How is that magical thinking when quite a few guys have exactly that? There has already been a few guys who have it and really like it, there no need for your sarcastic pokes at us over and over. Pretty soon, I'll have to start calling you Bossobass....rolleyes.gif

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Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

I bet! That's the note that puts the hurt on at my place. The quads and clones definitely feel the pain with that one.

Have you ever "soft" bottomed your LMS-U's Eric?

I was always to scared of destroying my cones to push them to the ragged edge.

You destroyed one cone before, right? Was there any warning before destruction?

Destruction happens at xmech, right?
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post #16042 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 06:12 PM
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Why would someone not want have an entire system capable of everything? Flat right down to 10hz or even 5hz? How is that magical thinking when quite a few guys have exactly that? There has already been a few guys who have it and really like it, there no need for your sarcastic pokes at us over and over. Pretty soon, I'll have to start calling you Bossobass....rolleyes.gif

I don't care what you call me Nate and I'm glad your system is giving you what you want. I doubt we will ever agree on this issue so lets just agree to disagree and let it go. smile.gif

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post #16043 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I don't care what you call me Nate and I'm glad your system is giving you what you want. I doubt we will ever agree on this issue so lets just agree to disagree and let it go. smile.gif

I don't know if anyone else sees it, but it's clear to me how you guys need to settle this...
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I don't know if anyone else sees it, but it's clear to me how you guys need to settle this...

Thumb wrestling? Less chance of injury.

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current gear: lcr JTR 212HT ~ quad JTR 8LP ~ dual JTR Orbit Shifters LFU ~ Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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post #16045 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I don't know if anyone else sees it, but it's clear to me how you guys need to settle this...

A good ol fashioned bass off! Who ever poops from the brown note first must wear a dress to the next GTG!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #16046 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

Have you ever "soft" bottomed your LMS-U's Eric?

I was always to scared of destroying my cones to push them to the ragged edge.

You destroyed one cone before, right? Was there any warning before destruction?

Destruction happens at xmech, right?

Yeah a few times. They make this "tink think" sound and you know that's when they're at their limit.

I blew up my first LMS so I'm super careful now. Especially since it didn't give ANY warning. Of course it didn't help that I had a bridged PL9.0 powering it.

Live and learn, live and learn. lol
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post #16047 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Thumb wrestling? Less chance of injury.

Yes... Much safer, yet just as effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

A good ol fashioned bass off! Who ever poops from the brown note first must wear a dress to the next GTG!

That would not be fair since only one party is capable of said note...

Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

Yeah a few times. They make this "tink think" sound and you know that's when they're at their limit.

I blew up my first LMS so I'm super careful now. Especially since it didn't give ANY warning. Of course it didn't help that I had a bridged PL9.0 powering it.

Live and learn, live and learn. lol

Dammit....makes me wish I'd pushed my Ultras harder before I sold them...
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post #16048 of 31288 Old 02-08-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

I don't know if anyone else sees it, but it's clear to me how you guys need to settle this...

You know what's curious to me is that most people that say the ULF stuff is for birds are usually on concrete slabs/bunkers. But RMK (unless I'm mistaken) is on a 2nd floor wooden structure and those types of rooms are the ABSOLUTE BEST for transmitting all that energy to the watcher/listener.
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post #16049 of 31288 Old 02-09-2014, 12:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edoggrc51 View Post

You know what's curious to me is that most people that say the ULF stuff is for birds are usually on concrete slabs/bunkers. But RMK (unless I'm mistaken) is on a 2nd floor wooden structure and those types of rooms are the ABSOLUTE BEST for transmitting all that energy to the watcher/listener.

Yes, the suspended wood floor makes my room pretty live and I had more bass than I needed with the dual OS's. It is clear that I'm not the bass head that some of you are. I need good clean balanced bass with some nice impact for movies. I'm pretty sure I will get that with the 215's even if they are not quite up to Orbit Shifter levels.
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post #16050 of 31288 Old 02-09-2014, 08:32 AM
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I can see reasons for one person to chase below 15hz (HT 1%ers) and I can see reasons why others say F'it, it's not worth the money and space that have to be traded off to accomplish this. Both are very valid goals.

The reality is that NO matter what one chooses the Film industry will not produce more movies that have below 20hz bass. They are not going to do this. There is No money in it for them And the game is always Money. Nothing supersedes the Almighty Dollar. Sure there may have one here and one there but the ratio between how many movies are produced verses how many will have below 20hz will not go up.

If that reality changes the HT 1%ers can call me a Pessimistic a$$hole but for now I am being a Realist. smile.gif

I Absolutely love seeing pictures of Over the Top HT rooms and think those are the Backbone that drive this thread. Keeps me in check with my own Audio obsession.

I do not see the need to debate 4k TV since at this moment it is not available anymore than Brand New below 15hz material is. There will be plenty of time for that discussion when and if it happens. Till then if some want to be safe instead of sorry go for it. If some want to wait till it is commonly available that's great too.

IMO getting all dressed up with no place to go is more frustrating than it is enjoyable but my wife does it 7 days a week just in case and I would not Dare stand in her way or tell her its a waste of time b/c to her it is important.

Since we all talk about off topic but productive audio Tips and theories anyway, Lets start listing any New material (after 2-9-14) that contains below 20hz material as it comes out. This would be an opportunity to Educate not a challenge. If enough material is available I will chase it. The Biggest reason I started with sealed subs was always being able to add more for lower extension if ever wanted.

Chris

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