Official JTR speaker thread - Page 556 - AVS Forum
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post #16651 of 22643 Old 02-22-2014, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Of course a little DSP work and for the newbie that can be intimidating. I feel well along enough with my Open DRC unit from mini dsp but still like that my submersives have built in dsp already done. Certainly not a deal breaker but notable certainly smile.gif

Even though the Submersive and JTR subs (both great subs) have a DSP built-in, those are just used to flatten the frequency response of the physical sub driver and enclosure. As soon as you put any sub in a room, it will no longer be flat so I'm not sure of the value of a sub having DSP or not having DSP(since the user can't tweak the JTR or Submersive DSP). If you want to get the most out of the sub, you'll need a DSP to equalize the response for your room, whether you have a JTR or Submersive with DSP or a DIY sub without DSP. And for the investment, if you're spending $4,000 or more I'd recommend some measuring equipment and a DSP or a nice receiver with some sort of equalization. I bought the MiniDSP UMIK-1 to go along with my MiniDSP 10x10 and use it with the free REW software and I think the measuring equipment should be mandatory for anyone posting in the JTR thread. smile.gif

Also, since we're talking about "entry" systems, I should point out that when I came on the AVS forum to get a sub, the first thing I learned was it would be better to have multiple lesser subs than a single uber sub so that the bass would be smooth and similar at multiple listening positions. Often with a single sub, one seat might have great bass but another might not sound good or might not have much bass at all.
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post #16652 of 22643 Old 02-22-2014, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Of course a little DSP work and for the newbie that can be intimidating. I feel well along enough with my Open DRC unit from mini dsp but still like that my submersives have built in dsp already done. Certainly not a deal breaker but notable certainly smile.gif

Even though the Submersive and JTR subs (both great subs) have a DSP built-in, those are just used to flatten the frequency response of the physical sub driver and enclosure. As soon as you put any sub in a room, it will no longer be flat so I'm not sure of the value of a sub having DSP or not having DSP(since the user can't tweak the JTR or Submersive DSP). If you want to get the most out of the sub, you'll need a DSP to equalize the response for your room, whether you have a JTR or Submersive with DSP or a DIY sub without DSP. And for the investment, if you're spending $4,000 or more I'd recommend some measuring equipment and a DSP or a nice receiver with some sort of equalization. I bought the MiniDSP UMIK-1 to go along with my MiniDSP 10x10 and use it with the free REW software and I think the measuring equipment should be mandatory for anyone posting in the JTR thread. smile.gif

Also, since we're talking about "entry" systems, I should point out that when I came on the AVS forum to get a sub, the first thing I learned was it would be better to have multiple lesser subs than a single uber sub so that the bass would be smooth and similar at multiple listening positions. Often with a single sub, one seat might have great bass but another might not sound good or might not have much bass at all.

my take...

The value is a flatter frequency response is a better place to start....Yes you can further optimize your experience with manual DSP on a ID or retail sub - but typically your AVR's auto EQ can handle a ID or retail subwoofer with a decently flat starting EQ - where as if you just put a sub in a sealed box your rolling the dice to see if audyssey helps you or not based on room gain profiles for your subs physical location. Audyssey has safety boost limits that it is confined too because it doesn't know if you have an LMS-5400 with 6,000 watts that can handle the extra boost or a Polk PSW10 in a box port tuned to 35hz that can't take any boost down low. If Audyssey started applying boost down low to the point it would take an SI or Dayton to have a flat frequency response in a sealed 4' cubic box in any room, then the vast majority of the public customers are going to complain their retail or ID subs are bottoming out or failing.

As to one sub failing to woo over multiple... If subwoofers of basically equal class are compared I'd agree, but when there are a couple steps or significant difference between the classes, I've not found that to be the case necessarily. Again my subjective experience and opinion.

carp
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1424240/i-need-help-choosing-a-subwoofer-around-3-200/30#post_22301564

mojomike
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1367775/captivator-or-submersive/180#post_21164853

me
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1186832/jtr-captivator/3810#post_22391049
Elaboration - I definitely preferred a single JTR Captivator to two PB13 Ultras in my room. It was a knock your socks off difference. I decided to sell the PB13 ultras and buy a single cap, and then realized I could afford two passive and was gonna have to buy two! I do prefer two subs to one sub as a general rule, but but man there are occasions where one sub is so much stronger than the competition that you'd take one over two subs.


The ULF thread states it would take about three sealed SI 18"s to equal one captivator 2400 on output based on the subwoofer driver differences.

But then again - I'm not saying you are wrong at all. Just being devil's advocate... There are definitely two ways about it! tongue.gif

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post #16653 of 22643 Old 02-22-2014, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

As to one sub failing to woo over multiple... If subwoofers of basically equal class are compared I'd agree, but when there are a couple steps or significant difference between the classes, I've not found that to be the case necessarily. Again my subjective experience and opinion.

Good points Archaea.

Regarding the multiple subs in the second paragraph, I really meant evening out the frequency response at multiple seats is usually(always?) better with multiple subs than a single sub. A single sub might give great bass in the sweet spot but another seat might not sound as good. Multiple subs greatly increase the chances of multiple seating positions having better quality bass. Again, I'm just relaying what I was told/learned and I took it to heart and bought 3 subs.
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post #16654 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 01:09 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Good points Archaea.

Regarding the multiple subs in the second paragraph, I really meant evening out the frequency response at multiple seats is usually(always?) better with multiple subs than a single sub. A single sub might give great bass in the sweet spot but another seat might not sound as good. Multiple subs greatly increase the chances of multiple seating positions having better quality bass. Again, I'm just relaying what I was told/learned and I took it to heart and bought 3 subs.

+2 on the mult sub better then one.
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post #16655 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 07:53 AM
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And in the category of buying things you don't need....I just bought a Parasoudn Halo 5 channel amp in black from a fellow AVS member. Only a month old. Been looking for a while but never found in black until tonight smile.gif
Nice, I was haggling for one on audiogon awhile ago. Just never happened.
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post #16656 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 08:02 AM
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Nice, I was haggling for one on audiogon awhile ago. Just never happened.

The stars lined up on this one as I was wanting a Halo for a while but could never find an A51 in black. I was looking for: 1)black amp 2)xlr connections 3)auto on feature. Though to be honest I having a little bit of buyers remorse. There was no need to upgrade...little bit of a trigger finger reaction when I saw it go up for sale

My current NAD Master 25 amp is silvery/gray but has been a terrific amp and is 7 channel and had all the power I could ever need with these JTR speakers. Though I did get a great deal on the Halo and it was only a month old and comes with original receipt (piece of mind for me). Now I have to sell my current amp...all 110lbs of it though I do have the original boxes. That should be fun to ship smile.gif
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post #16657 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

The stars lined up on this one as I was wanting a Halo for a while but could never find an A51 in black. I was looking for: 1)black amp 2)xlr connections 3)auto on feature. Though to be honest I having a little bit of buyers remorse. There was no need to upgrade...little bit of a trigger finger reaction when I saw it go up for sale

My current NAD Master 25 amp is silvery/gray but has been a terrific amp and is 7 channel and had all the power I could ever need with these JTR speakers. Though I did get a great deal on the Halo and it was only a month old and comes with original receipt (piece of mind for me). Now I have to sell my current amp...all 110lbs of it though I do have the original boxes. That should be fun to ship smile.gif

Blah, no buyers remorse once you get it hooked up. I love parasound stuff, it's just really overpriced in Canada vs the US, we pay an extra 1/2 what you do! Also, you rarely see them in black! Congrats and hope to see a pic in it's home environment!

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post #16658 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

The stars lined up on this one as I was wanting a Halo for a while but could never find an A51 in black. I was looking for: 1)black amp 2)xlr connections 3)auto on feature. Though to be honest I having a little bit of buyers remorse. There was no need to upgrade...little bit of a trigger finger reaction when I saw it go up for sale

My current NAD Master 25 amp is silvery/gray but has been a terrific amp and is 7 channel and had all the power I could ever need with these JTR speakers. Though I did get a great deal on the Halo and it was only a month old and comes with original receipt (piece of mind for me). Now I have to sell my current amp...all 110lbs of it though I do have the original boxes. That should be fun to ship smile.gif


You mean one of these?




Ordered through AVS which so happens to be a Parasound dealer..................and yes price was GREAT!

Only issue was waiting for 6-7 weeks for it...........oh well, late now as you sealed the deal. You will really like the amp.....every bit as good as my Evo 403! wink.gif
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post #16659 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 04:27 PM
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You mean one of these?




Ordered through AVS which so happens to be a Parasound dealer..................and yes price was GREAT!

Only issue was waiting for 6-7 weeks for it...........oh well, late now as you sealed the deal. You will really like the amp.....every bit as good as my Evo 403! wink.gif

I had no idea they were a Parasound dealer. I still need two more channels so I will call mike tomorrow to look into prices for an A21 or A23.
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post #16660 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 08:30 PM
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I would suggest the same as RMK, if you can go with an AT screen. But I still suggest building your own subs if you have the tools and skills too. You can easily get the same amount of bass as a Cap 2400 for way less money. A year ago I would have suggested going with the Cap 2400, and if you aren't great with building things I still think its a great option. But if you have the ability too go DIY for your subs.

A Cap 2400 is $2600. For less money you can build two cabinets like this




Pick up two UXL-18 drivers and a single inuke 6000DSP amp to power both for less then 2 grand, and have just as much bass at two Cap 2400's or more.

Many in this JTR thread have gone DIY and can tell you the same thing that I'm saying.

jbrown15 - Thank you for this idea.  I think you've convinced me to go DIY.  Could you provide some additional info on this?  Especially in regards to the picture you linked previously.

 

Dimensions (or drawings) of the box you posted.

 

Also, how are the connections taken care of?  I see that the iNuke 6000 is XLR (correct me if I'm wrong) how is this connected to the UXL driver?

 

Apologies for being such a noob on this.  Any help is appreciated!

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post #16661 of 22643 Old 02-23-2014, 09:17 PM
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jbrown15 - Thank you for this idea.  I think you've convinced me to go DIY.  Could you provide some additional info on this?  Especially in regards to the picture you linked previously.

Dimensions (or drawings) of the box you posted.

Also, how are the connections taken care of?  I see that the iNuke 6000 is XLR (correct me if I'm wrong) how is this connected to the UXL driver?

Apologies for being such a noob on this.  Any help is appreciated!

Shoot me a PM and I can give you all the details that you want.

Here's the thread that I started on the build too.

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post #16662 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 08:12 AM
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You've got to be kidding me.......rolleyes.gif
Do you realize how smug that makes you sound? telling everyone how it should be and what the definition is?
So if you didn't have everything in your "magical" list that makes your theater proper and everyone else's without your qualifications, moot. I guess people with TV's in their own HT should just be called what?

RMK non-reference, compromised not worth having to do anything rooms?

Dude seriously......

I'm comfortable saying that in a "dedicated room" front projection is more than half of getting a Theater at home experience right. You simply cannot get the same experience from a flat screen.

So dude ... rolleyes.gif your hyperbole aside, it is apparent that we don't see eye to eye on many things and so how about we ignore each other for the sake of a more harmonious thread?smile.gif
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post #16663 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 10:50 AM
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You have to remember that both the 228's and 212's were never designed to be run without subs. Everyone is recommending that you wait for subs because your budget kind of falls in between what you're really able to get. Although 4 grand is a good budget it kind of puts you in between a few options.

I don't think the 210RT's will sound better then either the 228 or 212's when they are run with subs. Jeff is building both the 210's and 215's to appeal to guys that want a full range speaker. I think he will even say that the full range speakers aren't going to sound better then the other speakers if they were being used with a good sub.

And I think your fears on DIY and basically you just being unsure of yourself, it really isn't that had to do and they can sound every bit as good as JTR subs.

I also think JTR speakers would hold they're value much better then Klipsch speakers. For one they very rarely come up for sale used and when they do they are usually snatched up pretty quickly. Its also interesting know now that most of the time the seller seems to be upgrading to a different JTR speaker, and I think that also says a lot about JTR speakers.

These are good points, and Carp, Archaea and others have chimed in with good suggestions too.

IMO you aren't going to be happy if you just get some 212's or 228's. You very quickly will realize you need a sub desperately to complete the package. Will the 210's get you there? Perhaps, but 35hz is still a little high for an 80% movie movie mix. The Rf 7ii's are great speakers, and they carry some good low end. I know you what you might be thinking though, "Hey 35hz on the Klipsch and 55-60hz on the 212's isn't that big of a difference right?" Wrong, it is a very very big difference.

My next point is we have some serious bassaholics around here, including yours truly. But after having a local member over the other night, he quickly stated that what I had was worlds more than anything close to the domestic movie listening he and his family were planning to do with his new sub build. All things considered, a passive cap, or a DIY ported can be done, and not entirely too expensively, and you will be happy at that point. No way you will be without a sub of any sort....

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post #16664 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 11:02 AM
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These are good points, and Carp, Archaea and others have chimed in with good suggestions too.

IMO you aren't going to be happy if you just get some 212's or 228's. You very quickly will realize you need a sub desperately to complete the package. Will the 210's get you there? Perhaps, but 35hz is still a little high for an 80% movie movie mix. The Rf 7ii's are great speakers, and they carry some good low end. I know you what you might be thinking though, "Hey 35hz on the Klipsch and 55-60hz on the 212's isn't that big of a difference right?" Wrong, it is a very very big difference.

My next point is we have some serious bassaholics around here, including yours truly. But after having a local member over the other night, he quickly stated that what I had was worlds more than anything close to the domestic movie listening he and his family were planning to do with his new sub build. All things considered, a passive cap, or a DIY ported can be done, and not entirely too expensively, and you will be happy at that point. No way you will be without a sub of any sort....

Blasphemy!!!! Tell him the knitting club meets down the street and he can get the #$%^ out of your house right now!!!! tongue.gifsmile.gif
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post #16665 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 11:54 AM
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hahah!

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post #16666 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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I had no idea they were a Parasound dealer. I still need two more channels so I will call mike tomorrow to look into prices for an A21 or A23.
Yeah me neither, I also deal with AA and they are the only place I really knew that sold Parasound. Good to hear old AVS is a dealer. I gotta start working on a screen soon.
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post #16667 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:03 PM
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These are good points, and Carp, Archaea and others have chimed in with good suggestions too.

IMO you aren't going to be happy if you just get some 212's or 228's. You very quickly will realize you need a sub desperately to complete the package. Will the 210's get you there? Perhaps, but 35hz is still a little high for an 80% movie movie mix. The Rf 7ii's are great speakers, and they carry some good low end. I know you what you might be thinking though, "Hey 35hz on the Klipsch and 55-60hz on the 212's isn't that big of a difference right?" Wrong, it is a very very big difference.

My next point is we have some serious bassaholics around here, including yours truly. But after having a local member over the other night, he quickly stated that what I had was worlds more than anything close to the domestic movie listening he and his family were planning to do with his new sub build. All things considered, a passive cap, or a DIY ported can be done, and not entirely too expensively, and you will be happy at that point. No way you will be without a sub of any sort....

Thanks to you....I have 6 - 18" subs in my room. Last year at this time, I thought three 15's were "overkill".. biggrin.gif
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post #16668 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:08 PM
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Thanks to you....I have 6 - 18" subs in my room. Last year at this time, I thought three 15's were "overkill".. biggrin.gif

What are friends for right? Just trying to keep you at the bleeding edge of performance. Speaking of which, I have to thank you as well. These new changes were put into hyperdrive once I realized you were actually running more subs than I am currently (Well equal with the RE's and the closet sub), but anyways, thanks for giving me the motivation to crank through these boxes pretty quick smile.gif
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Blasphemy!!!! Tell him the knitting club meets down the street and he can get the #$%^ out of your house right now!!!! tongue.gifsmile.gif

Haha, we were listening at about -3 to movie tracks, with my gratuitous house curve, so we weren't just screwin' around at -30 or anything.

And if there really is a knitting club....I Want in! (I've never knit anything in my life.)

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post #16669 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:12 PM
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What are friends for right? Just trying to keep you at the bleeding edge of performance. Speaking of which, I have to thank you as well. These new changes were put into hyperdrive once I realized you were actually running more subs than I am currently (Well equal with the RE's and the closet sub), but anyways, thanks for giving me the motivation to crank through these boxes pretty quick smile.gif
Haha, we were listening at about -3 to movie tracks, with my gratuitous house curve, so we weren't just screwin' around at -30 or anything.

And if there really is a knitting club....I Want in! (I've never knit anything in my life.)

Glad I could help motivate you by making you feel "inferior" with your setup compared to mine...hahaha
(Subs only...your speakers are quite impressive...)
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post #16670 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:16 PM
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When running "only" 4 18's instead of 8 ( or 12 wink.gif ).... or 6 in your case, all in I would never consider to be "inferior"

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post #16671 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:18 PM
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Yeah me neither, I also deal with AA and they are the only place I really knew that sold Parasound. Good to hear old AVS is a dealer. I gotta start working on a screen soon.

Did you ever make a long term decision between the Danley's and the JTRs. I thought I remembered a post recently where you were going to make a decision on which set to go with. A win/win as both speakers have great reputation but just curious.

I did call up AVS and ordered a black halo A23 to match the A51 I bought yesterday. I will say I still paid less than AVS is charging for a new A51 by a decent margin so it reinforced my "good deal" I thought I got yesterday. If AVS had the A51 for cheaper than I paid, I would have kicked myself smile.gif
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post #16672 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

These are good points, and Carp, Archaea and others have chimed in with good suggestions too.

IMO you aren't going to be happy if you just get some 212's or 228's. You very quickly will realize you need a sub desperately to complete the package. Will the 210's get you there? Perhaps, but 35hz is still a little high for an 80% movie movie mix. The Rf 7ii's are great speakers, and they carry some good low end. I know you what you might be thinking though, "Hey 35hz on the Klipsch and 55-60hz on the 212's isn't that big of a difference right?" Wrong, it is a very very big difference.

My next point is we have some serious bassaholics around here, including yours truly. But after having a local member over the other night, he quickly stated that what I had was worlds more than anything close to the domestic movie listening he and his family were planning to do with his new sub build. All things considered, a passive cap, or a DIY ported can be done, and not entirely too expensively, and you will be happy at that point. No way you will be without a sub of any sort....


Thanks for the good post.

I think you guys have got me misunderstood!

I never said I was unwilling to buy a sub, just that I'd probably unable to buy one for a while... given my starting budget, and given how expensive all the speakers are. The math just doesn't work.

So here's the thing:
1) I'm going to get speakers first... or I will just wait and try to increase my budget get speakers + a sub at once.

2) The speakers I am mainly interested in, and trying to decide between the 228's, or the 210's. With the 228's, I know for sure that I will need to buy stands, which adds to their cost.

3) Given the frequency ranges of the speakers... I believe I'd be happy/content for a few months with the 210T's without a sub, because their frequency is very similar to the RF-7iis, and I know how the RF-7iis sounded. 38hz is actually pretty good IMO from towers alone, and you can still get some pretty decent lows. Conversely, I also know also that I probably won't be happy even initially with the 228s without a sub.

4) Something I haven't mentioned yet is the veneer. If I opt to have a custom, furniture-grade veneer, this is going to set me back even farther. How good or bad is the stock JTR finish, and do you think that getting a veener is worth the added cost? These speakers will be going in a main living room, not a basement, or dedicated theater room!
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post #16673 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Thanks for the good post.

I think you guys have got me misunderstood!

I never said I was unwilling to buy a sub, just that I'd probably unable to buy one for a while... given my starting budget, and given how expensive all the speakers are. The math just doesn't work.

So here's the thing:
1) I'm going to get speakers first... or I will just wait and try to increase my budget get speakers + a sub at once.

2) The speakers I am mainly interested in, and trying to decide between the 228's, or the 210's. With the 228's, I know for sure that I will need to buy stands, which adds to their cost.

3) Given the frequency ranges of the speakers... I believe I'd be happy/content for a few months with the 210T's without a sub, because their frequency is very similar to the RF-7iis, and I know how the RF-7iis sounded. 38hz is actually pretty good IMO from towers alone, and you can still get some pretty decent lows. Conversely, I also know also that I probably won't be happy even initially with the 228s without a sub.

4) Something I haven't mentioned yet is the veneer. If I opt to have a custom, furniture-grade veneer, this is going to set me back even farther. How good or bad is the stock JTR finish, and do you think that getting a veener is worth the added cost? These speakers will be going in a main living room, not a basement, or dedicated theater room!
Veneer is certainly your call. The JTR's come standard with their flat black finish. I actually like it. I think in any dedicated theater, the Noesis look bold and could fit into just about any theater style or theme, just maybe not the wife living room though. One thing to remember is that it will take awhile to get your speakers when you order them. So you will be looking from anywhere from 1 to maybe 2 months for your speakers, so that gives you some time to make up your mind on a sub or subs. But you want to make sure that you get a decent sub that will pair well with the Noesis. Certainly want a sub that will keep up.
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post #16674 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post


I'm comfortable saying that in a "dedicated room" front projection is more than half of getting a Theater at home experience right. You simply cannot get the same experience from a flat screen.

So dude ... rolleyes.gif your hyperbole aside, it is apparent that we don't see eye to eye on many things and so how about we ignore each other for the sake of a more harmonious thread?smile.gif

My first experience in a dedicated room was Sunday at the redone magnolia/best buy in torrance ca. which they claim costs $750K to build. Also my first expience with a large projection set up. They were playing the tron legacy motor cycle part of the movie and the video was stunning. I bought the movie took it home and watched it at home on my 70" flat screen and there was no comparison, large projection is WAY better then my flat screen. The audio was good but frankly did not impress me, the video experience was out of this world.  My room is multi-purpose, a projection set up like this will not work. I have seen what I'm missing, does this mean I'm taking sides?

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post #16675 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

Veneer is certainly your call. The JTR's come standard with their flat black finish. I actually like it. I think in any dedicated theater, the Noesis look bold and could fit into just about any theater style or theme, just maybe not the wife living room though. One thing to remember is that it will take awhile to get your speakers when you order them. So you will be looking from anywhere from 1 to maybe 2 months for your speakers, so that gives you some time to make up your mind on a sub or subs. But you want to make sure that you get a decent sub that will pair well with the Noesis. Certainly want a sub that will keep up.

About the stock finish: Can anyone provide some up-close photos (or links to said photos) of JTRs with the stock finish? Honestly, how would this look in a regular living room.... acceptable, cool, or just plain tacky?
If I can live with the stock finish, it makes JTRs WAY more affordable for me. biggrin.gif

Regarding the durability of that finish.... is it highly durable? Does it show scratches, fingerprints, scuffs, etc.? (I'm highly careful with things in general, though)

Secondly....To be clear, I do plan on ordering JTR sub(s) to match the speakers. I guess I need to pick out what sub I want! I was thinking about a Capitvator 2400, since that seems to be kind of a JTR "Sweet spot" among the subs? I don't want anything without enough punch, but I don't want anything overpowered taht can actually damage my house (i.e., Orbit Shifter). I want good, clean, bass, that packs a good clean punch to the chest.... and adds to the HT experience, rather than dominating it, or detracting from it.: cool.gif

Having said that... I've never heard a a world-class HT sub, so I'm not sure what I'm missing yet. eek.gif
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post #16676 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hmmm......I think it's about that time again....time to buy either:

A second Cap 2400

or

2 s8s for surround duty to replace my JBLs


or

build / buy some room treatments.....because I don't have any.........because I don't know what to buy. lol.

As far as your budget of 4000.00 landmonster.....A good sub can make up for mediocre speakers. So, if I was you, I would probably buy the sub first and save for the LCR......If you are going to wait on a sub and get an awesome LCR now, you can't go wrong with the 228s imo.

Buying a 228 or 210 LCR and trying to justify being dissatisfied with the sound (because they aren't full range) may not be the best bet.

Also...what part of Funky Town are you in sir?


My sub unscrews light bulbs, pops nails, and wakes up babies.
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post #16677 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I guess people with TV's in their own HT should just be called what?

A TV room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I'm comfortable saying that in a "dedicated room" front projection is more than half of getting a Theater at home experience right. You simply cannot get the same experience from a flat screen.

+1
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post #16678 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post


About the stock finish: Can anyone provide some up-close photos (or links to said photos) of JTRs with the stock finish? Honestly, how would this look in a regular living room.... acceptable, cool, or just plain tacky?
If I can live with the stock finish, it makes JTRs WAY more affordable for me. biggrin.gif

Regarding the durability of that finish.... is it highly durable? Does it show scratches, fingerprints, scuffs, etc.? (I'm highly careful with things in general, though)

Secondly....To be clear, I do plan on ordering JTR sub(s) to match the speakers. I guess I need to pick out what sub I want! I was thinking about a Capitvator 2400, since that seems to be kind of a JTR "Sweet spot" among the subs? I don't want anything without enough punch, but I don't want anything overpowered taht can actually damage my house (i.e., Orbit Shifter). I want good, clean, bass, that packs a good clean punch to the chest.... and adds to the HT experience, rather than dominating it, or detracting from it.: cool.gif

Having said that... I've never heard a a world-class HT sub, so I'm not sure what I'm missing yet. eek.gif


The wife will probably not be accepting of stock JTR speakers in a living room...Flat Black, with texture...Like a powder coat almost. My wife hates the way they look / loves the sound. It's not tacky....just not pretty.

The finish is VERY durable. Reminds me of rhino liner (probably not as durable). Scuffs wipe off.

I have a cap 2400....It's got enough punch to pressurize my HT, make the double doors bounce around, and shake the hell out of the room in general. It CAN absolutely damage your house.....lol. It is a very clean sub though. The sound / feel (yes you can feel it) is unlike anything you have felt before.

The noesis 228s make my HT memorable. The cap 2400 makes it legendary. Which is why I'm buying a second.

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My sub unscrews light bulbs, pops nails, and wakes up babies.
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post #16679 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I guess people with TV's in their own HT should just be called what?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlittlejeans View Post

A TV room.

Let's call a spade, a spade. I would call it a "wannabe HT". I should know, I have one. A killer sound system simply cannot make up for the lack of a large format screen and projector.

It's analogous to satellite speakers without subs. It's going to be a seriously compromised experience no matter how good the speakers.

Of course that's just my opinion and everyone who disagrees is free to be overly satisfied with whatever they have. biggrin.gif
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post #16680 of 22643 Old 02-24-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Thanks for the good post.

I think you guys have got me misunderstood!

I never said I was unwilling to buy a sub, just that I'd probably unable to buy one for a while... given my starting budget, and given how expensive all the speakers are. The math just doesn't work.

So here's the thing:
1) I'm going to get speakers first... or I will just wait and try to increase my budget get speakers + a sub at once.

2) The speakers I am mainly interested in, and trying to decide between the 228's, or the 210's. With the 228's, I know for sure that I will need to buy stands, which adds to their cost.

3) Given the frequency ranges of the speakers... I believe I'd be happy/content for a few months with the 210T's without a sub, because their frequency is very similar to the RF-7iis, and I know how the RF-7iis sounded. 38hz is actually pretty good IMO from towers alone, and you can still get some pretty decent lows. Conversely, I also know also that I probably won't be happy even initially with the 228s without a sub.

4) Something I haven't mentioned yet is the veneer. If I opt to have a custom, furniture-grade veneer, this is going to set me back even farther. How good or bad is the stock JTR finish, and do you think that getting a veener is worth the added cost? These speakers will be going in a main living room, not a basement, or dedicated theater room!

What about going with a passive Cap 2400 and a pair of 228's? $1700 for a passive Cap 2400 and grab an iNuke 3000DSP for $300. And stretch your budget a little to get a pair of 228's.

What are you currently using for speakers now?

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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