Official JTR speaker thread - Page 562 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16831 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

THanks Carp. The new amp has XLR connections and that is what I am using now. The attenuators I ordered are XLR attentuators. My old amp was RCA only so that is what I used before today were RCA connections. So I don' think that is it?

Are you saying your pre/pro has xlr outputs? So it's xlr to xlr? If so I got nothin' unfortunately. Someone will jump in and help.
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post #16832 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

Are you saying your pre/pro has xlr outputs? So it's xlr to xlr? If so I got nothin' unfortunately. Someone will jump in and help.

Thanks again for trying to help out a fellow JTR brother. It is XLR to XLR but I think I made a discovery. I pulled that amp out of the shelf but left it connected and now the hum seems to be way lower...still there...but way lower. I wonder if when I pushed it back into the shelf, since it is a tight fight depth wise, if something (maybe speaker wire) was touching something else (maybe other speaker wire)....causing the hum. I will keep playing with it but I think that might have been it.



Just quick update, it is 90% gone. Now you can't hear it unless you walk right up to the speaker...before I could hear it from my seat. Was definitely something touching in my rack before. Was a huge buzz kill for a while getting a new toy and getting a sense of panick....all better now smile.gif
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post #16833 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

THanks Carp. The new amp has XLR connections and that is what I am using now. The attenuators I ordered are XLR attentuators. My old amp was RCA only so that is what I used before today were RCA connections. So I don' think that is it?

What amp?

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post #16834 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:10 PM
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What amp?

I picked up a black Parasound Halo A51 and a matching black Parasound Halo A23. Switching them out with my NAD M25 amp. The main reason was to get XLR connections and I wanted a black amp to match the rest of my equipment which is all black (the NAD is grey)...since I have self diagnosed HT OCD smile.gif
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post #16835 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

Thanks again for trying to help out a fellow JTR brother. It is XLR to XLR but I think I made a discovery. I pulled that amp out of the shelf but left it connected and now the hum seems to be way lower...still there...but way lower. I wonder if when I pushed it back into the shelf, since it is a tight fight depth wise, if something (maybe speaker wire) was touching something else (maybe other speaker wire)....causing the hum. I will keep playing with it but I think that might have been it.



Just quick update, it is 90% gone. Now you can't hear it unless you walk right up to the speaker...before I could hear it from my seat. Was definitely something touching in my rack before. Was a huge buzz kill for a while getting a new toy and getting a sense of panick....all better now smile.gif

Wheww, glad you figured it out. I'm still thinking that 10% could be eliminated too though.
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post #16836 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I picked up a black Parasound Halo A51 and a matching black Parasound Halo A23. Switching them out with my NAD M25 amp. The main reason was to get XLR connections and I wanted a black amp to match the rest of my equipment which is all black (the NAD is grey)...since I have self diagnosed HT OCD smile.gif

I've owned Parasound gear. They are based in SF and I've been to their offices a few times. Good people, good products and good service. Try a cheater plug on the amp and see if the hum disappears. Not a fix but informative.

BTW, If you're looking for a second opinion, I concur with your diagnosis biggrin.gif.

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post #16837 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I've owned Parasound gear. They are based in SF and I've been to their offices a few times. Good people, good products and good service. Try a cheater plug on the amp and see if the hum disappears. Not a fix but informative.

BTW, If you're looking for a second opinion, I concur with your diagnosis biggrin.gif.

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post #16838 of 30781 Old 02-27-2014, 07:53 PM
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Takes one to know one tongue.gif

Yeah well I'm in recovery. None of my AV equipment matches and I'm ok with that ... so theres hope for you too. smile.gif

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post #16839 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

Just quick update, it is 90% gone. Now you can't hear it unless you walk right up to the speaker...before I could hear it from my seat. Was definitely something touching in my rack before. Was a huge buzz kill for a while getting a new toy and getting a sense of panick....all better now smile.gif
New amps and cables sometimes need to warm up. If you still have the hum today try rotating while checking the XLR cables one at a time. Connection/cables seem to have a higher failure rate over the past 2 years.
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post #16840 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I know there is a lot of experience with attenuators on this thread since JTR speakers are so high sensitivity. My new amps came intoday so of course Audyssey got pegged at -12 so I ordered attentuators. There is also an audible hum that I think other's have experienced with high gain amps and JTR speakers. Will the attenuators also help reduce that? I know with my last amp, it had gain knobs so I was able to get that hum to go away by reducing the gain on the amp. The new amps don't have gain adjustment so I can't do that. Will the attenuators essentially do the same thing as reducing the gain on the new amps and thus reducing/eliminating that hum?

Well, late to the party and glad you got it sorted out. Odds are RCA will help with your 8801 as their output gain is 6dB lower than XLR, but then you don't have that nice balanced cable, so there is a tradeoff.

Yea, you must have pushed the power cable up against a speaker cable or something. The nicest fix is that which just takes a little cable management wink.gif

With all that said, you still have -12dB on the 212's. The Attenuator will solve this, as well as likely take care of the last 10% of the issue, so it literally is a win/win situation for you. I actually just had to pop an attenuator in to the 2242's as they had a pretty bad hum, and are quite sensitive. It solved the whole issue very quickly.

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post #16841 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 09:54 AM
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I agree here. I don't know the specs on the 215's or the 210's yet, but they are not going to be as sensitive as the Noesis, that is for sure, those drivers are going to be a lot more beefier than the 212's and 228's. No AVR is going to push the 215's to their potential. Be like driving a full size truck with a 4 cylinder and would you want to do that?

3-cylinder...2014 hotness! Would put the engine in my truck to shame

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Well, late to the party and glad you got it sorted out. Odds are RCA will help with your 8801 as their output gain is 6dB lower than XLR, but then you don't have that nice balanced cable, so there is a tradeoff.

Yea, you must have pushed the power cable up against a speaker cable or something. The nicest fix is that which just takes a little cable management wink.gif

With all that said, you still have -12dB on the 212's. The Attenuator will solve this, as well as likely take care of the last 10% of the issue, so it literally is a win/win situation for you. I actually just had to pop an attenuator in to the 2242's as they had a pretty bad hum, and are quite sensitive. It solved the whole issue very quickly.

So help me understand this attenuator issue... Is there any negative consequence to throwing one in line? Will it have any effect on max output?
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post #16842 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 10:11 AM
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I always wanted to hear JTR speakers so I popped over to joe's (jbrown15) place last night to hear his 228's after the step daughter gave birth to a new baby boy in the morning.
We played a few CD's and the intro to Terminator Salvation (for dynamics testing). Well yes, they sounded awesome. When we played the Terminator intro, we thought we had all three speakers on, but no only the left and right were on. This fooled us both because the soundstage was seamless and this is with them spaced over 12 feet apart, I think. Music was also seamless across the front stage, wide and deep with great detail retrieval with no harshness. I have not heard better anytime in my life although I have only heard audiophile speakers mainly over the years. Thanks Joe! I will have to contemplate what is my next step.
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post #16843 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 10:37 AM
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I told you man, you can borrow mine anytime!
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He is holding the block, but not the gigantic supercharger that actually makes that engine work. Still could not put that engine in a truck, it does not make enough torque to tow. Still is awesome though!! It is amazing at what manufactures are doing in regards to eliminating the V8 engine, it will not belong before these engines are more common in larger vehicles. I just got a 3.5 V6 Ecoboost in my new truck and I have to admit, I never thought it would move like it does. When the twin turbos kick in, good night!! The stock engine is making 365 BHP with 420 lb-ft of torque. I am going to do some tinkering, I found a way to get 60 more horse and 80 lb-ft of torque. The new numbers should read 405 BHP and 500 lb-ft of Torque when complete. Varoooooooom!! I love engines as much as I do subs biggrin.gif

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post #16844 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 10:48 AM
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I will also be trying to complete a new Audyssey XT32 calibration tonight.

12 dB attenuators arrived, so I added them in and ran an 8-point Audyssey calibration a few nights ago. LCR trims were set at -3 (which means without the attenuators they wanted to be around -15, so they were 3 dB hot when the AVR maxed the trim at -12) and the Cap S2 was set at -4. I bumped the subwoofer trim up 5 dB hot to +1.

I need to get some measuring equipment so I can see what is going on, but overall the attenuators did reduce the buzz from the Sherbourn amp and they allowed Audyssey to correctly level match all speakers. I'm still not sure why, but the Cap S2 seems to be limited by Audyssey, I have yet to experience any bass as powerful as I was expecting.

I have a question on the Audyssey test tones, specifically the subwoofer tones. Is it normal for the sub to barely be making any noise when Audyssey is running its calibration? Seems to be very quiet, but I guess that may be normal.

Here are the current speaker settings.

Left is 8.9 ft and -3 trim.
Center is 7.7 ft and -3 trim.
Right is 8.6 ft and -3 trim.
Subwoofer is 10.0 ft and +1 trim (5 dB hot, Audyssey set at -4).

I am watching S1E4 of Game of Thrones right now, nothing too dynamic in this episode yet but everything is crystal clear.

Video - Panasonic VT50 55" | Panasonic BDT320
AVR - Denon X4000 | Sherbourn PA 7-350
Speakers - JTR Noesis 228HT | DIY Sound Group Volt V10 | JTR Captivator S2
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post #16845 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by emr25 View Post

12 dB attenuators arrived, so I added them in and ran an 8-point Audyssey calibration a few nights ago. LCR trims were set at -3 (which means without the attenuators they wanted to be around -15, so they were 3 dB hot when the AVR maxed the trim at -12) and the Cap S2 was set at -4. I bumped the subwoofer trim up 5 dB hot to +1.

I need to get some measuring equipment so I can see what is going on, but overall the attenuators did reduce the buzz from the Sherbourn amp and they allowed Audyssey to correctly level match all speakers. I'm still not sure why, but the Cap S2 seems to be limited by Audyssey, I have yet to experience any bass as powerful as I was expecting.

I have a question on the Audyssey test tones, specifically the subwoofer tones. Is it normal for the sub to barely be making any noise when Audyssey is running its calibration? Seems to be very quiet, but I guess that may be normal.

Here are the current speaker settings.

Left is 8.9 ft and -3 trim.
Center is 7.7 ft and -3 trim.
Right is 8.6 ft and -3 trim.
Subwoofer is 10.0 ft and +1 trim (5 dB hot, Audyssey set at -4).

I am watching S1E4 of Game of Thrones right now, nothing too dynamic in this episode yet but everything is crystal clear.

Don't be afraid to manually bump up the sub to wherever it sounds right to you. I also bump mine up 6 to 8db from where Audyssey leaves it for my subs.

I also just ordered attenuators yesterday after my new amp came in and pegged Audyssey at -12db. I ordered the ones in the link below because they looked pliable like a regular cord and looked easy to integrate. First time buying attenuators for me so didn't know what to get.

http://www.amazon.com/Audiogadgets-True-Balanced-Attenuator-Cable/dp/B00A9JWJ1A/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1393615684&sr=8-15&keywords=xlr+attenuator
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post #16847 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 12:02 PM
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Testing 9.2 today...adding heights now. So far wides aren't doing much, as I had concluded before. Let's see what heights add, if anything, in my room.

Edit: reran 8 point audysseys, and went thru 8 demo clips...so as expected, heights have expanded LR sound...Audyssey has crossed them at 250Hz. My 212 are still sitting on the floor and horns for a main speaker is 6 feet from a height horn. As from my past experience, I have found at least 5-6' distance will provide good separation to really utilize heights, and get a wall of sound, which it is giving with the way my 212 are on floor. As in another setup, I highly doubt it will have enough separation once the LCR are setup higher and distance closes between the heights. I still wouldn't use a jtr 8 for heights, as that is just not good economics IMO, unless you've got money to burn. I'm using some eD cinema 6, which are horns, that I am selling and a buyer wanted to hear them...so gave me an excuse to wire a pair up.


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post #16848 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

I picked up a black Parasound Halo A51 and a matching black Parasound Halo A23. Switching them out with my NAD M25 amp. The main reason was to get XLR connections and I wanted a black amp to match the rest of my equipment which is all black (the NAD is grey)...since I have self diagnosed HT OCD smile.gif

Does the A51 have a ground lift switch on it? When I had my A21 hooked up to my Onkyo 5507 and JTR T8's, I had a bad hum but hitting that switch immediately got rid of it.

edit: there appears to be a ground lift toggle on the rear of the A51 looking at the pics on Parasound's website.

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post #16849 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 01:55 PM
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Testing 9.2 today...adding heights now. So far wides aren't doing much, as I had concluded before. Let's see what heights add, if anything, in my room.

Interesting that you think the wides do more than the heights. I think the opposite. I guess the material you are using really matters the most. What are you demo-ing and are you using Neo:X? I found that Neo:X sounded best for my liking.
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post #16850 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 01:58 PM
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actually I think he said, "wides aren't doing much" Which would insinuate that he didn't think they did as much as heights, which you contradicted in your post.

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post #16851 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 02:11 PM
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Interesting that you think the wides do more than the heights. I think the opposite. I guess the material you are using really matters the most. What are you demo-ing and are you using Neo:X? I found that Neo:X sounded best for my liking.

Actually, I said the wides aren't doing much, and I've been a/b'ing for a week with the wides...the heights are doing more definitely, given there's enough of a distance between the horns of the main and the the heights...with the 212 on the floor, that's 6 feet for me right now...this def gives more of wall of sound. If someone wanted to add anything more up front, bookshelf horns under $400 like my eD...or JBL, Klipsch, or SEO should work very well IF there is enough space. With the dispersion of a speaker like the 212/228, it's the distance between LR and heights that will really come into play. If I don't end up selling the eD to anyone, I'll keep them for sure and put them to use in here...they do a great job at keeping up with the JTRs and a perfect value for surround duties. So will end up with having 11.2 and one extra left over...can't let the eD6c go to waste cool.gif

For material, I'm using scuba clips...Scenes like Book of Eli shootout really provide the complete surround experience extremely well...And yes, DTS Neo X is what the AVR automatically went to...And I took it reference level, but of course...on my AVR...cleanly, efficiently, without any signs of abuse, neglect, or struggle wink.gif

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post #16852 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 02:34 PM
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Sorry that's my fault for typing it backwards. I knew you said that I a ment that I like wides better than heights. Sorry for the confusion.
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post #16853 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 03:09 PM
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Heights are the way to go,try playing a movie with rain or storms it really adds something to the movie imho,someone answer this for me, could I remove my 2009 triple 12 cd & 12 in woofer and replace it with a horn with the cd attached to it or would I have to change the x-over.Also would it be hard to find a horn to fit in the 12 in woofer space? thanks
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post #16854 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 04:06 PM
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Heights are the way to go,try playing a movie with rain or storms it really adds something to the movie imho,someone answer this for me, could I remove my 2009 triple 12 cd & 12 in woofer and replace it with a horn with the cd attached to it or would I have to change the x-over.Also would it be hard to find a horn to fit in the 12 in woofer space? thanks
Your only real option is to update your T12s to the current CD and XO. The BMS CD is a nice upgrade.

There is no horn I am aware of that would fit and you would have to change the XO if you could. It would be more trouble then its worth.
Good luck
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post #16855 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 05:54 PM
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Does the A51 have a ground lift switch on it? When I had my A21 hooked up to my Onkyo 5507 and JTR T8's, I had a bad hum but hitting that switch immediately got rid of it.

edit: there appears to be a ground lift toggle on the rear of the A51 looking at the pics on Parasound's website.

Both the Halo amps have the ground lift and both are turned on. I still have a tiny bit of "noise" you can hear when you get close to the speakers. The A23 has a gain dial and if you turn it down from max the noise dissapperas for those two channels totally. That makes me think when I put the attenuators on the 5 channels from the A51 that their noise will dissapear as well. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post


For material, I'm using scuba clips...Scenes like Book of Eli shootout really provide the complete surround experience extremely well...And yes, DTS Neo X is what the AVR automatically went to...And I took it reference level, but of course...on my AVR...cleanly, efficiently, without any signs of abuse, neglect, or struggle wink.gif

Bahhh. I need POWER, lol. What is it some kind of gerbil wheel inside that AVR producing power? tongue.gifbiggrin.gif


Just kidding. You've got a nice system there. smile.gif
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post #16857 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post

Both the Halo amps have the ground lift and both are turned on. I still have a tiny bit of "noise" you can hear when you get close to the speakers. The A23 has a gain dial and if you turn it down from max the noise dissapperas for those two channels totally. That makes me think when I put the attenuators on the 5 channels from the A51 that their noise will dissapear as well. Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Although I only have a very slight buzz still that you literally need to be within 4ft to hear with nothing playing I'm still trying to get rid of it. So last night I switched out my RCA to RCA's going from my receiver to my Sherbourn amp over to RCA to XLR cables. The buzz was reduced even more, now you need to be within 2ft to hear it. Next week a buddy is going to bring over his Sherbourn receiver that has XLR output so I'll use XLR to XLR cables to the amp to see if this completely gets rid of the buzz.

If it does I see a new receiver in the very near future smile.gif
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post #16858 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Bahhh. I need POWER, lol. What is it some kind of gerbil wheel inside that AVR producing power? tongue.gifbiggrin.gif


Just kidding. You've got a nice system there. smile.gif

Haha...I promise...I'm going to be trying an amp next wink.gif

---------------------------------------------------------------
current gear: lcr JTR 212HT ~ quad JTR 8LP ~ dual JTR Orbit Shifters LFU ~ Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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post #16859 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Although I only have a very slight buzz still that you literally need to be within 4ft to hear with nothing playing I'm still trying to get rid of it. So last night I switched out my RCA to RCA's going from my receiver to my Sherbourn amp over to RCA to XLR cables. The buzz was reduced even more, now you need to be within 2ft to hear it. Next week a buddy is going to bring over his Sherbourn receiver that has XLR output so I'll use XLR to XLR cables to the amp to see if this completely gets rid of the buzz.

If it does I see a new receiver in the very near future smile.gif

I may be listing my 4-week old sr7008 for sale if I get the 8801 cool.gif

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current gear: lcr JTR 212HT ~ quad JTR 8LP ~ dual JTR Orbit Shifters LFU ~ Elemental Designs eD6c ~ Marantz SR7008 ~ PT-AE8000U ~ Elite 176" 2.35 ATS
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post #16860 of 30781 Old 02-28-2014, 06:22 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

Haha...I promise...I'm going to be trying an amp next wink.gif

Awesome. I was just busting chops, if you're happy with the AVR then maybe you don't need an amp.

On a serious note though, I ran across a maintenance manual for your AVR in case you decide to keep it long term http://www.wikihow.com/Care-for-Gerbils biggrin.gif
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