Official JTR speaker thread - Page 571 - AVS Forum
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post #17101 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by asoofi1 View Post

So your entire AVRs vs Amps argument was based on 5-7 full range setup that 99.9% of ppl don't even have or care to...and you actually have never tested 5 or 7 Noesis as you said you had?...even though noesis arent even designed for full range (minus the unreleased 215rt)?

I convinced my friend who is a pro DJ to purchase seven JTR Noesis for his new rig which we ran thorugh the gambit for a couple of weekend. My point is no avr can run seven high power handling speakers such as Jtr 212 or 215 to their potential. Now to fully understand my point you have to listen to speakers such seven ajtr 212s placed around a mid sized room as Fronts sides and rears. Im sorry but placing eights and six inch woofers as surrounds will not duplicate this experience.

But most guys in the home market consider a 212 or 215 as a ''main'' speaker then pair it to a smaller design they consider a ''surround''. However no where are these speakers labeled as such.

If you were to hear seven matching flagship speakers on a avr vs a couple of LG 10ks you would quickly see the shortcomings of an avr in a surround music or all channels driven environment.

And as beast stated my current setup is comparable, though the Noesis are better all around as they should be with the advances in new tech and higher price range.
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post #17102 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 01:07 PM
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Archaea
I challenge you to a coin toss. Heads I win Tails you lose. smile.gif I know Shenanigans right? biggrin.gif

Word on the street is that Archaea has been practicing other forms of dispute resolution...

cam_holes.jpg

Edit: Fu#&ing Phone!
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post #17103 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

How is the vertical off axis response of the 212's or 228's? Planning out my stage now and If I stack the 212's on my sub woofer the center of the horn will be at 56". Is this two high? I will have two rows of seating. The first row will probably be 12-13' back from the screen. I know best practice is ear height but that may not be possible.

That is a good question and the only way you will know if it works for you is to try it. I found I liked the horn center right on my nose (vertically speaking smile.gif ). My 212 mains and center were on top of Orbit Shifters but I didn't have a stage so I guessing mine were a bit lower than yours would be. Angling the speakers down slightly for the front row is probably the answer but again, try it and see what you like.

Both the 212 and 228's use a 60/40 (H/V) horn. Below is the horizontal dispersion pattern of the Noesis 212.


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post #17104 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 01:51 PM
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Two Yorkville U215's and seven Yorkville U15's.


Wow!!!

 

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post #17105 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

How is the vertical off axis response of the 212's or 228's? Planning out my stage now and If I stack the 212's on my sub woofer the center of the horn will be at 56". Is this two high? I will have two rows of seating. The first row will probably be 12-13' back from the screen. I know best practice is ear height but that may not be possible.
Diesel - not sure if this would help but I took some off axis measurements. See post #302 here : http://www.avsforum.com/t/1498786/the-savoy/300


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post #17106 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:03 PM
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Hi. Is there anyone in the Dallas/Plano area who has a home theatre setup using Noesis 228HTs that I can come and listen to? Please PM me. Thanks.
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post #17107 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:20 PM
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I really appreciate the invite and will really try to make it if I can. It would be great to meet all of you guys. It's been hard to keep up with the thread and posts because I have totally torn my theater down and am replacing the ceiling with DD+GG on hat channel and clips (its a lot of work with variable ceiling heights) I did get some good news today though, I bought the real LG10K today off ebay and ordered my third OS and piano black slant 8's for surrounds Once I finish the theater we could consider doing the A/B test here too. I should be able to drive everything quite hard because I added two more 20 amp lines too!. BTW I don't think at reference indoors I would be able to tell the difference either.


Are you good friends with the neighborhood ? eek.gif

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post #17108 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post

Archaea
I challenge you to a coin toss. Heads I win Tails you lose. smile.gif I know Shenanigans right? biggrin.gif

Word on the street is that Archaea has need practicing other forms of dispute resolution...

cam_holes.jpg

I bought that machine, but broke it last week. Cheap chinese junk. Only rated for 600lbs. The metal just doesn't hold up to ~400 reps at max weight every three hours. For the last few nights I've had my wife put the Dodge Ram 1500 up against me with a tow chain. She throws it in 4 low and I've been getting better at holding the tow chain taut for a few seconds longer every time. You should see the ruts in our yard. Last night my wife rolled over and said honey we are gonna need a bigger truck.

Whens our next face off. Better have the doc prefabricate you a nice cast so I'll have a chance to sign it in advance.
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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #17109 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:35 PM
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OOOOOOOOOO SNAP!!!! Literally

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post #17110 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:37 PM
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Lol. Archea is a big man. Gotta find a more peaceful option for conflict resolution with him.smile.gif
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post #17111 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I bought that machine, but broke it last week. Cheap chinese junk. Only rated for 600lbs. The metal just doesn't hold up to ~400 reps at max weight every three hours. For the last few nights I've had my wife put the Dodge Ram 1500 up against me with a tow chain. She throws it in 4 low and I've been getting better at holding the tow chain taught for a few seconds longer every time. You should see the ruts in our yard. Last night my wife rolled over and said honey we are gonna need a bigger truck.

Whens our next face off. Better have the doc prefabricate you a nice cast so I'll have a chance to sign it in advance.



Or better yet eek.gif

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post #17112 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 02:40 PM
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Are you good friends with the neighborhood ? eek.gif
one of the best parts of the basement theater is you can hardly here it outside even at +17dBfr. Just a low rumble and funny earthquake feeling in the ground next to the house. We have had parties till 3 in the morning and played this loud, no cops ever. The neighbores are about 100-200 f away though. Once the ceiling is done maybe even less sound outside. If you want to come back and check it out when I am finished let me know. I may have another GTG, would be fun, more milk this time:rolleyes:.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #17113 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 03:22 PM
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Hi. Is there anyone in the Dallas/Plano area who has a home theatre setup using Noesis 228HTs that I can come and listen to? Please PM me. Thanks.

Good to see you reaching out. Give it some time if you haven't heard from anyone. I think I recall someone from your area, can't remember who it is though.

To all, Pillpusher is trying to decide on speakers for a dedicated theater AT screen setup and has only had the opportunity to listen to box store paradigm's, B&W's, and others. I pointed him over here after recommending JTR 228's.

Perhaps some that made a switch to 228's from similar models could chime in with their impressions after they switched.

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
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post #17114 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 03:33 PM
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Good to see you reaching out. Give it some time if you haven't heard from anyone. I think I recall someone from your area, can't remember who it is though.

To all, Pillpusher is trying to decide on speakers for a dedicated theater AT screen setup and has only had the opportunity to listen to box store paradigm's, B&W's, and others. I pointed him over here after recommending JTR 228's.

Perhaps some that made a switch to 228's from similar models could chime in with their impressions after they switched.
I didn't end up switching to the JTR's, but I've heard them at Gooddoc's place and they'll handily beat similarly priced Paradigms. I loved my Digms, but they really don't have the impact that JTRs do. But, it depends on your tastes, like everything. If you're a bigger movie than music guy, then it's an even easier swing to go over to the JTRs. Music, I find, people have much different opinions about what makes a good speaker. But, certainly, the JTR Noesis are excellent music performers as well, IMO.
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post #17115 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by PillPu$her View Post

Hi. Is there anyone in the Dallas/Plano area who has a home theatre setup using Noesis 228HTs that I can come and listen to? Please PM me. Thanks.

AVS member KevinH is in Austin. He has Noesis 3TX LCR's and Orbit Shifter subs. That would make for an interesting demo if you are ever in the Capital City. smile.gif
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post #17116 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 03:45 PM
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Word on the street is that Archaea has been practicing other forms of dispute resolution...

cam_holes.jpg

Edit: Fu#&ing Phone!

Hey, did you guys know that there is actually an arm wrestling reality show now? tongue.gif


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Hey, did you guys know that there is actually an arm wrestling reality show now? tongue.gif

Game of Arms.... Haven't heard... tongue.gif

 

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post #17118 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 03:47 PM
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Ok...so you know already. My wife of all people showed it to me.


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post #17119 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 04:13 PM
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I didn't end up switching to the JTR's, but I've heard them at Gooddoc's place and they'll handily beat similarly priced Paradigms. I loved my Digms, but they really don't have the impact that JTRs do. But, it depends on your tastes, like everything. If you're a bigger movie than music guy, then it's an even easier swing to go over to the JTRs. Music, I find, people have much different opinions about what makes a good speaker. But, certainly, the JTR Noesis are excellent music performers as well, IMO.

Hey Brian,

Long time no talk. How are those Cats? I'd love to hear what you think of them now that you've been living with them for a while.

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
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post #17120 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post

I didn't end up switching to the JTR's, but I've heard them at Gooddoc's place and they'll handily beat similarly priced Paradigms. I loved my Digms, but they really don't have the impact that JTRs do. But, it depends on your tastes, like everything. If you're a bigger movie than music guy, then it's an even easier swing to go over to the JTRs. Music, I find, people have much different opinions about what makes a good speaker. But, certainly, the JTR Noesis are excellent music performers as well, IMO.

Thanks for the recommendation, and thank you Gooddoc for the intro.
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post #17121 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 05:30 PM
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Thanks for the recommendation, and thank you Gooddoc for the intro.

No problem. I hope you get a chance to listen. There are plenty of posts you'll find where folks upgraded to a design like JTR from speaker designs like you were looking at. But I doubt you'll find anyone that went from designs like JTR to the speaker designs you were looking at - at least anywhere close to your budget. That should tell you something. wink.gifsmile.gif

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post #17122 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 05:57 PM
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Well, all is back to normal in my HT. I have had the new amps for a week but with it needing attenuators, the system just didn't sound right over the last week. Kind of hard to get excited about new toys when something isn't right with the overall experience. Could never get it dialed in manually. Last night the attenuators came in. Today I ran audyssey and everything was back in range for Audyssey (-12 to +12 db) and the system sounds great again. First thing I did was put in the Tim Reynolds and Dave Matthews blu ray concert and man did my smile come back. That blu ray concert is the best recording I have ever heard in a blu ray concert (I own about 20). Then just now watched Gravity with the family. The soundtrack was much more active then I would have imagined and again my smile was back. Gonna try and not tinker with things for a while and just enjoy status quo.


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #17123 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 06:17 PM
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one of the best parts of the basement theater is you can hardly here it outside even at +17dBfr. Just a low rumble and funny earthquake feeling in the ground next to the house. We have had parties till 3 in the morning and played this loud, no cops ever. The neighbores are about 100-200 f away though. Once the ceiling is done maybe even less sound outside. If you want to come back and check it out when I am finished let me know. I may have another GTG, would be fun, more milk this time:rolleyes:.


Let me know when you have another GTG . I would have had a good beverage but was getting over a bad cold and I thought if I had one or two , I would not have wanted to leave smile.gif

I think your new ceiling will be a huge improvement . That and powering your system with a real amp and not a weak receiver. cool.gif

Samsung 55 inch lcd
Marantz sr5400
Parasound HCA 1500
Parasound HCA 1000
JTR OS LFU
Paradigm studio 40's -fronts
Paradigm CC
Paradigm atoms -rear
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post #17124 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 07:26 PM
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Hey Brian,

Long time no talk. How are those Cats? I'd love to hear what you think of them now that you've been living with them for a while.
My room still is not worthy of them. My brother comes home from school this weekend and I think I'm going to enlist him to help me get these things onto furniture sliders and help me measure and push 'em around. Right now they are still directed straight at me with no toe and nowhere near the ideal "golden ratio". I just plopped them where the old ones were because it was easiest and didn't require me moving around other furniture. They sound great, but I am pretty sure once I get them toed well (and thusly get some of the residual energy off my untreated side walls) they'll sound even better. Either way, they are a crazy improvement over my old Digms, adding impact and authority to music at levels those poor things would never achieve without letting out the ghost, lol.

You'll have to stop by some day to take a listen!

P.S. When you getting those treatments tongue.gif...though, I should shut my mouth since I need them, too, haha.

edit: oh, and some stupid/funny -- I still can't get past my old habits of wondering whether or not I've broken something. Last weekend I had the Metallica Through The Never soundtrack on, LOUD, like +8 for some songs. Then, I'd turn it back down to reference, and wonder "OMG, I hope I didn't hurt something." Usually it was because it seems on that disc much of the cymbals are mixed heavily to the right side of the soundstage, so I'd think, "wait, was all the high frequency content coming from that speaker all along, oh no, did I blow the left tweater, ahhhhhh!". Cuz, at +8, I'm sure my poor old digms would've smoked a tweater (and maybe a mid, too) and I keep thinking I'm going to hurt these things. But, I go behind them, switch off all the amplifiers, and turn on each in succession to make sure all drivers are there and working, and they are...no harm done, lol. Paranoid, much....eventually I'll get over it, I suppose, haha.
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post #17125 of 23458 Old 03-06-2014, 07:37 PM
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Let me know when you have another GTG . I would have had a good beverage but was getting over a bad cold and I thought if I had one or two , I would not have wanted to leave smile.gif

I think your new ceiling will be a huge improvement . That and powering your system with a real amp and not a weak receiver. cool.gif
you should have stayed. A few of us stayed and had quite a few beers while listening to music after the movie was over. I am hoping for something in May and I will definitely let you know.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #17126 of 23458 Old 03-07-2014, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DreamWarrior View Post

My room still is not worthy of them. My brother comes home from school this weekend and I think I'm going to enlist him to help me get these things onto furniture sliders and help me measure and push 'em around. Right now they are still directed straight at me with no toe and nowhere near the ideal "golden ratio". I just plopped them where the old ones were because it was easiest and didn't require me moving around other furniture. They sound great, but I am pretty sure once I get them toed well (and thusly get some of the residual energy off my untreated side walls) they'll sound even better. Either way, they are a crazy improvement over my old Digms, adding impact and authority to music at levels those poor things would never achieve without letting out the ghost, lol.

You'll have to stop by some day to take a listen!

P.S. When you getting those treatments tongue.gif...though, I should shut my mouth since I need them, too, haha.

edit: oh, and some stupid/funny -- I still can't get past my old habits of wondering whether or not I've broken something. Last weekend I had the Metallica Through The Never soundtrack on, LOUD, like +8 for some songs. Then, I'd turn it back down to reference, and wonder "OMG, I hope I didn't hurt something." Usually it was because it seems on that disc much of the cymbals are mixed heavily to the right side of the soundstage, so I'd think, "wait, was all the high frequency content coming from that speaker all along, oh no, did I blow the left tweater, ahhhhhh!". Cuz, at +8, I'm sure my poor old digms would've smoked a tweater (and maybe a mid, too) and I keep thinking I'm going to hurt these things. But, I go behind them, switch off all the amplifiers, and turn on each in succession to make sure all drivers are there and working, and they are...no harm done, lol. Paranoid, much....eventually I'll get over it, I suppose, haha.

Ha! I don't think you have anything to worry about and I'm not sure it's even possible to blow those drivers. Mark Seaton knows the crowd he's designing for and I'm sure he's designed them to take whatever you throw at them. biggrin.gif

As to my treatments, I went and bought a PJ without a game plan for a screen and little did I know that the screen would be such a PITA to figure out....Then I got on a kick to find a new processor....then I started launching my third business and between the three of them I simply don't have the time currently to install and deal with any of those HTC projects. So I'm in a holding pattern until things calm down and I have the time. smile.gif

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post #17127 of 23458 Old 03-07-2014, 07:42 AM
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Ha! I don't think you have anything to worry about and I'm not sure it's even possible to blow those drivers. Mark Seaton knows the crowd he's designing for and I'm sure he's designed them to take whatever you throw at them. biggrin.gif

It's been my observation that the Catalyst buyer is different than the "average" JTR buyer. Seaton's demographic is a bit longer of tooth and looking for a more refined sound that only spending more money can deliver tongue.gifwink.gif. Where as the average JTR buyer is a bit younger, more reckless and impulsive and so tends to stomp down hard on the accelerator whenever the mood strikes.

That said, I have some of characteristics of both in that I enjoy a good Cabernet while riding that roller coaster. I actually feel more comfortable with the old geezers who buy Seaton, but I'm also relatively immature and find myself drawn to the darker side of my nature (e.g. Nero's remix of Ghosts N Stuff by Deadmau5 at +15db tongue.gif).
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post #17128 of 23458 Old 03-07-2014, 08:32 AM
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It's been my observation that the Catalyst buyer is different than the "average" JTR buyer. Seaton's demographic is a bit longer of tooth and looking for a more refined sound that only spending more money can deliver tongue.gifwink.gif. Where as the average JTR buyer is a bit younger, more reckless and impulsive and so tends to stomp down hard on the accelerator whenever the mood strikes.

That said, I have some of characteristics of both in that I enjoy a good Cabernet while riding that roller coaster. I actually feel more comfortable with the old geezers who buy Seaton, but I'm also relatively immature and find myself drawn to the darker side of my nature (e.g. Nero's remix of Ghosts N Stuff by Deadmau5 at +15db tongue.gif).

Well the dual Orbit Shifters pretty much settled the deal smile.gif
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post #17129 of 23458 Old 03-07-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

It's been my observation that the Catalyst buyer is different than the "average" JTR buyer. Seaton's demographic is a bit longer of tooth and looking for a more refined sound that only spending more money can deliver tongue.gifwink.gif. Where as the average JTR buyer is a bit younger, more reckless and impulsive and so tends to stomp down hard on the accelerator whenever the mood strikes.

That said, I have some of characteristics of both in that I enjoy a good Cabernet while riding that roller coaster. I actually feel more comfortable with the old geezers who buy Seaton, but I'm also relatively immature and find myself drawn to the darker side of my nature (e.g. Nero's remix of Ghosts N Stuff by Deadmau5 at +15db tongue.gif).

Well, from my listening session with DreamWarrior I don't think he fits the Seaton demographic as you described. smile.gif

He's pedal to the metal, lol. I had my LG amp gain set at a level that gave me enough watts to hit the volumes that I considered loud enough for me, yet also reduced my speaker hiss to about zero. DreamWarrior cranked it right up until the signal chain was clipping, lol. In retrospect, I should have set the gains to normal levels before hand since the speaker hiss is really only an issue for my late night listening sessions at low volumes and a very quiet noise floor. I sort of felt bad since in a demo you want the system to be at its full potential, and even I was disappointed to experience limits. biggrin.gif

To the point though, he's struck me as a JTR guy when it comes to volume, but he still expects refinement from his speaker and is a critical listener. In that regard he definitely fits well with Seaton's designs.

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post #17130 of 23458 Old 03-07-2014, 09:21 AM
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Seatons stuff vs JTR is also kinda like apple vs android. Seaton is all in one, it ia what it is, no monkeying with it, just plug it in and done. JTR gives you an idea and lets you run with it, the amp and dsp is up to you. Personally I dislike active speakers because of the plugs needed and I want to use my own power, thats part of the fun..... I also dislike Apple and what they as a company stand for. lol

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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