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post #18271 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:54 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Thanks for sharing the stand pics. The hinged centre channel stand is clever.

Whereabouts in Oz are you mate? I'd love to have a listen to your T12's if we're in the same parish. (I'm in Southern Queensland.)

It's going to be a few months before I get the new house, so just building the stands, acoustic panels and fixed frame screen with electronic masking for the time being.

Yeh the center channel stand was a more simple version of what I was originally planning to build, glad I went for simple, was quick to assemble and easy to swap the middle piece for different angles.

Today I bought rubber feet with adjustable screw in's for height adjustment, really need that on wonky floors to stabilize the stands, similar to the pointed screw in feet commonly seen on speakers.
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post #18272 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Fully light controlled bunker, very deep (Think red wine) colored walls. Flat black ceiling, and lighter colored carpet, but I didn't see any issue with the rs40, albeit a smaller screen. Not going to watch a whole lot of 3d but still like the concept and get the hankering for a nice 3d flick every once in a while.

I am considering with the pj switch, a change to 2.35:1 at the same time, but I am on the fence. I don't really understand how the whole lens memory shift thing works. Does it automatically make a 16:9 image 2.35? Are there issues with masking systems this way? I would easily move to 2.35:1 if it automatically makes the change without losing any of the picture itself. I have been thinking about moving to 2.35:1 as the rear row at this point loses a few inches of the bottom of screen, and I don't want to raise the riser anymore.

The projector does not modify the content aspect ratio. If you watch a 2.35:1 movie on a 16:9 screen (or a regular widescreen TV), there are horizontal black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. If you watch the same movie on a 2.35:1 screen, you can zoom in and project the black bars outside the screen and fill the whole screen with the content. It works perfectly as long as the area surrounding the screen is also dark. The lens memory allows saving multiple zoom settings and selecting a setting to match the current content. i.e., adjust the lens once to get the best 16:9 image and save that setting under a name, then do the same for 2.35:1 and save it under the different name. Then switch between the saved settings as needed.

Its also easier to build a masking solution for 2.35:1 screens as compared to 16:9 screens. This is because when we project 16:9 content on a 2.35:1 screen we get vertical black bars on the right and left side of the screen instead of horizontal black bars that you get when projecting a 2.35:1 image to a 16:9 screen. You can simply install black curtains on the right and the left side of the screen and use them to mask the desired area when watching 16:9 content. I built some simple curtains using GOM FR701 and they work perfectly. They also add some theatrical effect and hide the entrance of the area behind the AT screen .

Hope that helps,
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post #18273 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Ok, here's a question.. i keep hearing ppl use Roxul.. so i called Roxul and a sales rep just got back to me.. he recommended these two types:

1. Themal Rock S80

Dimension: 1200mm x 600mm

Thickness: 50mm

Nominal Density: 80kg/m3


2. Thermal Rock S60,

Dimension: 1200mm x 600mm

Thickness: 50mm

Nominal Density: 60kg/m3

Are they the right ones?

I was going to use them on the walls, and behind the stage and below the riser (as a bass trap).

I'm not an expert on acoustics but I would think the less dense material will be more absorbent to more frequencies, but it won't attenuate the deeper frequencies as much unless you use several inches. So if you are going to be at 4 or more inches in the corner then I'd get the S60, thinner than 4" then go for the 80. Also, if you find that your traps might need more than one package of insulation then get both and put the 60 in front to handle more frequencies and the 80 behind to handle the lower frequencies. Hopefully someone more versed can validate or correct my theories.
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post #18274 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

I'm not an expert on acoustics but I would think the less dense material will be more absorbent to more frequencies, but it won't attenuate the deeper frequencies as much unless you use several inches. So if you are going to be at 4 or more inches in the corner then I'd get the S60, thinner than 4" then go for the 80. Also, if you find that your traps might need more than one package of insulation then get both and put the 60 in front to handle more frequencies and the 80 behind to handle the lower frequencies. Hopefully someone more versed can validate or correct my theories.

David - you are correct. Take a look here to see the impact of material density and thickness vs. frequency band absorption. smile.gif

http://www.bobgolds.com/AbsorptionCoefficients.htm
http://ethanwiner.com/density.html


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post #18275 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

Ok, here's a question.. i keep hearing ppl use Roxul.. so i called Roxul and a sales rep just got back to me.. he recommended these two types:

1. Themal Rock S80

Dimension: 1200mm x 600mm

Thickness: 50mm

Nominal Density: 80kg/m3


2. Thermal Rock S60,

Dimension: 1200mm x 600mm

Thickness: 50mm

Nominal Density: 60kg/m3

Are they the right ones?

I was going to use them on the walls, and behind the stage and below the riser (as a bass trap).

CG, use www.bobgolds.com to look at absorbtion coefficients for all sorts of materials.

EDIT: The primate beat me to it smile.gif

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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

The projector does not modify the content aspect ratio. If you watch a 2.35:1 movie on a 16:9 screen (or a regular widescreen TV), there are horizontal black bars on the top and bottom of the screen. If you watch the same movie on a 2.35:1 screen, you can zoom in and project the black bars outside the screen and fill the whole screen with the content. It works perfectly as long as the area surrounding the screen is also dark. The lens memory allows saving multiple zoom settings and selecting a setting to match the current content. i.e., adjust the lens once to get the best 16:9 image and save that setting under a name, then do the same for 2.35:1 and save it under the different name. Then switch between the saved settings as needed.

Its also easier to build a masking solution for 2.35:1 screens as compared to 16:9 screens. This is because when we project 16:9 content on a 2.35:1 screen we get vertical black bars on the right and left side of the screen instead of horizontal black bars that you get when projecting a 2.35:1 image to a 16:9 screen. You can simply install black curtains on the right and the left side of the screen and use them to mask the desired area when watching 16:9 content. I built some simple curtains using GOM FR701 and they work perfectly. They also add some theatrical effect and hide the entrance of the area behind the AT screen .

Hope that helps,

Solid. So for movies that switch ratios in the middle for IMAX content, like Tron and TDK, I guess you are kind of out of luck for those particular scenes no?

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post #18276 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:31 AM
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Solid. So for movies that switch ratios in the middle for IMAX content, like Tron and TDK, I guess you are kind of out of luck for those particular scenes no?

Correct. You can still watch them in 16:9 mode and live with some black bars (or keep switching all the time which gets annoying).

Good thing is that very few movies fall into that category.
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post #18277 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:40 AM
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Ok so talk me into 2.35:1. I don't game barely at all anymore, still listen to music 80% of the time, and only watch major sports events in the theater. The majority of viewing time my content is movies, and that is pretty much it. Is it a no-brainer for me?

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post #18278 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:45 AM
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Ok so talk me into 2.35:1. I don't game barely at all anymore, still listen to music 80% of the time, and only watch major sports events in the theater. The rest of the time my content is movies, and that is pretty much it. Is it a no-brainer for me?
If TV is your major, I would stick to the 16:9. I will only be using my theater for movies and considering the best ones are shot in 2:40:1 I have made up my mind to go wide.

Speaking of movies. I finally ripped open my copy of Elysium last night and what a LFE treat. The subs were digging deep on this one.

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post #18279 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:46 AM
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How far is your PJ from the screen? I have been toying with the idea of a 4810. I had the RS40 back a few years ago and loved it, but my screen was 110" inches then, and now I am at 138" diagonal with a throw distance of around 18 feet. Think I would be in good shape there?

Honestly I don't remember but will measure when I have a chance. My room is dark with a full black velvet treatment of walls ceiling and floor 6' out from the screen. The pj is as close as I could get and still fill the 150" 16x9 screen. I don't use 3d but the 2d brightness is fine for me on low lamp mode. I had it professionally calibrated and he thought it was on the lower end of brightness but acceptable ... Unfortunately I don't remember how many fl he measured it at.

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post #18280 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 07:50 AM
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If TV is your major, I would stick to the 16:9. I will only be using my theater for movies and considering the best ones are shot in 2:40:1 I have made up my mind to go wide.

Speaking of movies. I finally ripped open my copy of Elysium last night and what a LFE treat. The subs were digging deep on this one.

I edited my post as it seemed a bit confusing. I really meant the majority of my viewing is Movies and blu ray concert discs. The thought of widescreen also just intrigues me. Perhaps I will start a thread in the screen section to keep from clogging this one up any more than I already have biggrin.gif

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post #18281 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 08:06 AM
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Yea, really beast, you're the only one around here that clogs up the thread with your off-topic nonsense. Please move it off this laser focused thread immediately.

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post #18282 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 08:08 AM
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I edited my post as it seemed a bit confusing. I really meant the majority of my viewing is Movies and blu ray concert discs. The thought of widescreen also just intrigues me. Perhaps I will start a thread in the screen section to keep from clogging this one up any more than I already have biggrin.gif

Your usage is pretty much like mine, and a scope screen is a no-brainer smile.gif I switched to it a few months ago and I am not going back.

The vast majority of action and adventure movies are shot in that aspect ratio, where filling the whole screen really matters. 16:9 movies are generally character dramas and you can easily live with a smaller picture.
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post #18283 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 08:24 AM
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I am stuck with this very same decision. I'm width constrained, so whether I go scope or 16:9 screen dimensions, the size of the scope picture will not change. It just seems like I'm throwing away a lot of 16:9 size for no good reason aside from the bars that really don't bother me much on my plasma now

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Beastaudio tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

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post #18284 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 09:36 AM
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I am stuck with this very same decision. I'm width constrained, so whether I go scope or 16:9 screen dimensions, the size of the scope picture will not change. It just seems like I'm throwing away a lot of 16:9 size for no good reason aside from the bars that really don't bother me much on my plasma now

Signed,

Beastaudio tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

I am not sure if this applies to you.. but I look at it this way. I want the largest screen possible.

So, for me, i'll see where the limitations is.. is it the height of the place or the width.. i'll go as large as is possible... for instance if you have a very wide room, but your ceiling isn't very high, then go scope.... so, even at scope your screen is from 20 inches above ground all the way up to almost the ceiling... so, when you're watching 16:9 that's the largest 16:9 you could get anyways...

In my case, my width is limited.. so i went with 16:9, which, when watching scope movies, it'll be the 'longest' as well (as if i chose scope to begin with).

I really like the immersive experience, so sitting near, with as large a screen in front of me as possible..

Plus, I believe there will be more and more movies in 16:9 eventually.. like Avatar 16:9 3D is just awesome if you have a screen in 16:9 format wall to wall, floor to ceiling...


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post #18285 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

CG, use www.bobgolds.com to look at absorbtion coefficients for all sorts of materials.

EDIT: The primate beat me to it smile.gif
Solid. So for movies that switch ratios in the middle for IMAX content, like Tron and TDK, I guess you are kind of out of luck for those particular scenes no?

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Originally Posted by dgage View Post

I'm not an expert on acoustics but I would think the less dense material will be more absorbent to more frequencies, but it won't attenuate the deeper frequencies as much unless you use several inches. So if you are going to be at 4 or more inches in the corner then I'd get the S60, thinner than 4" then go for the 80. Also, if you find that your traps might need more than one package of insulation then get both and put the 60 in front to handle more frequencies and the 80 behind to handle the lower frequencies. Hopefully someone more versed can validate or correct my theories.

Thanks guys.. the link will really help me plan...


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post #18286 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 10:11 AM
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Yea, really beast, you're the only one around here that clogs up the thread with your off-topic nonsense. Please move it off this laser focused thread immediately.

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Meh, we all know these type of threads are the best and why we come back. Nobody likes self imposed police thread forces!

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post #18287 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 10:15 AM
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I am stuck with this very same decision. I'm width constrained, so whether I go scope or 16:9 screen dimensions, the size of the scope picture will not change. It just seems like I'm throwing away a lot of 16:9 size for no good reason aside from the bars that really don't bother me much on my plasma now

Signed,

Beastaudio tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

Haha. Same thing with me. The screen will be the same width regardless. Maybe I will just wait until Rich can get some of those top/bottom masking panels to turn 16:9 to 2.35:1. That could be the best of both worlds come to think of it. The main reason I began thinking about widescreen format is my second row can't see the bottom of the screen with 16:9 content and I don't want to raise the riser any more than it already is so I am kind of at a standstill.

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post #18288 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 10:24 AM
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I will bite on this a bit. I am certainly on the lower end of experience with high end speakers but I feel I have enough experience and listening enough to tell why JTR's are good! Everyone knows JTR's are known for the high sensitivity ratings and ability to play extremely loud! And with minimal power, minus the 215 210 new models. We see this in Archaea's youtube video of powering two 212 Noesis with 1 single watt each at reference level volume. I think some audio snobs turn away from JTR because they assume all they do is play loud and sound decent doing so. Also the looks may drive some away. But for those looking for good sound I believe JTR's are the answer. Lower listening levels are great too, just ask Goodoc. He has lost sleep over his 212's like others. I spent an entire long day in Seattle at Kris Deerings GTG last year and spent lots of time listening too a set of flagship Paradigm towers downstairs and Legacy Audio sent him a set of 5 Legacy Focus SE model speaker (2 towers, center and two surrounds). They both sounded great and I would be happy with either in my home. But in the real world price is also a factor and even if I took home 10k a month you wouldn't see me buying the Legacies. They were extremely precise, accurate and very nice overall. But to me they just sounded like a set of good sounding speakers that had a tie bit of upper harshness. During this GTG I was offered to stay at Bill's, bsoko2, house. He has a 7 channel JTR system of Triple 8 surrounds x4 and LCR Quintuples. We watched the movie Oblivion the night before and it was great. I swore Tom Cruise was in the room during vocal scenes. I came away from that weekend liking the JTR sound best. THE number one factor I most enjoyed and solidified my future JTR seeking was there was no harshness anywhere! Even right now as I listen to my Triple 8's the cleanness and absolute zero distortion is key. My first system was a 7 channel Definitive Technology system consisting of L&R towers that were $2,000 retail each! That system was better than most american families will ever have but I could only go so loud until it would distort and I would have to turn it down. Right now as I type I am listening to lossless audio files through iTunes as well a a CD at -3 to -6. And it doesn't seem loud. Remember distortion sounds loud and makes one think the volume is too loud when it's just distortion they are hearing. People have claimed that well over reference on JTR's doesn't sound that loud. I have hit +16 over reference with the Dolby music listening preset and like +10 with stereo listening preset and the cleanness is just unreal! But it's not all about loudness I know. But I think the fact that these can play so loud with no distortion means that normal loud and reference are both so distortion free.

Thank you for addressing the low level capability of the JTR's. I've been waiting for someone to comment on how these speakers sound at low to moderate listening volumes. Everyone always comments on how these sound at reference and how loud they can go, but I have little to no reference playing music or HT at reference. I need a speaker that creates a sense of depth, spaciousness and detail at low volumes. Unfortunately I live in Los Angeles and have no way of auditioning these speakers. So I have no choice but to scour this thread for listening impressions with the intention of buying these speakers without even hearing them first. If anybody else can comment on the low to moderate volume performance of these speakers pleaese chime in.

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post #18289 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 10:49 AM
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Thank you for addressing the low level capability of the JTR's. I've been waiting for someone to comment on how these speakers sound at low to moderate listening volumes. Everyone always comments on how these sound at reference and how loud they can go, but I have little to no reference playing music or HT at reference. I need a speaker that creates a sense of depth, spaciousness and detail at low volumes. Unfortunately I live in Los Angeles and have no way of auditioning these speakers. So I have no choice but to scour this thread for listening impressions with the intention of buying these speakers without even hearing them first. If anybody else can comment on the low to moderate volume performance of these speakers pleaese chime in.

My listening levels are in -12 to -5 below reference range and I can vouch for the quality and clarity of 212s (and quintuples, which were my mains before I bought 212s) at these levels. My wife often listens to music at significantly lower volumes and the speakers maintain the same clarity and depth.

The vocals on 212s were already pretty good but they are unreal after applying room treatments.

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post #18290 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 11:46 AM
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Thank you for addressing the low level capability of the JTR's. I've been waiting for someone to comment on how these speakers sound at low to moderate listening volumes. Everyone always comments on how these sound at reference and how loud they can go, but I have little to no reference playing music or HT at reference. I need a speaker that creates a sense of depth, spaciousness and detail at low volumes. Unfortunately I live in Los Angeles and have no way of auditioning these speakers. So I have no choice but to scour this thread for listening impressions with the intention of buying these speakers without even hearing them first. If anybody else can comment on the low to moderate volume performance of these speakers pleaese chime in.

Whatever you do having a properly treated room and dealing with specular reflections and reducing modal ringing will be a great push to clarity.

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post #18291 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 11:51 AM
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I am not sure if this applies to you.. but I look at it this way. I want the largest screen possible.

So, for me, i'll see where the limitations is.. is it the height of the place or the width.. i'll go as large as is possible... for instance if you have a very wide room, but your ceiling isn't very high, then go scope.... so, even at scope your screen is from 20 inches above ground all the way up to almost the ceiling... so, when you're watching 16:9 that's the largest 16:9 you could get anyways...

In my case, my width is limited.. so i went with 16:9, which, when watching scope movies, it'll be the 'longest' as well (as if i chose scope to begin with).

I really like the immersive experience, so sitting near, with as large a screen in front of me as possible..

Plus, I believe there will be more and more movies in 16:9 eventually.. like Avatar 16:9 3D is just awesome if you have a screen in 16:9 format wall to wall, floor to ceiling...

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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Haha. Same thing with me. The screen will be the same width regardless. Maybe I will just wait until Rich can get some of those top/bottom masking panels to turn 16:9 to 2.35:1. That could be the best of both worlds come to think of it. The main reason I began thinking about widescreen format is my second row can't see the bottom of the screen with 16:9 content and I don't want to raise the riser any more than it already is so I am kind of at a standstill.

Seems we all kind of feel the same way about it here. It's just that I get sucked into a cult-like trance when I visit that 2.35:1 Constant Image Height thread and I start thinking that life is just not worth living if it means being stuck with a 16:9 aspect ratio...smile.gif

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post #18292 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:04 PM
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I had a hard debate for 2:35 vs 16:9. I game a lot so I went for 16:9. Ive yet to regret going that route. But ifI was movies only, Id for sure go 2:35.

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post #18293 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post

I had a hard debate for 2:35 vs 16:9. I game a lot so I went for 16:9. Ive yet to regret going that route. But ifI was movies only, Id for sure go 2:35.

I quoted this one but based on what I've been reading in the previous posts, if I'm height-limited, I should go for 2.35-2.4 and then 16x9 will be the same height but not as wide. I'm looking at the Seymour electric screen with electric masking, which should be exactly what I need. I'm pretty sure everything I wrote is correct but it would be nice to have validation...of my ideas, not personal validation. smile.gif
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post #18294 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

I quoted this one but based on what I've been reading in the previous posts, if I'm height-limited, I should go for 2.35-2.4 and then 16x9 will be the same height but not as wide. I'm looking at the Seymour electric screen with electric masking, which should be exactly what I need. I'm pretty sure everything I wrote is correct but it would be nice to have validation...of my ideas, not personal validation. smile.gif

In your circumstances (width limited) it makes perfect sense to go 16:9 with a masking solution. I would do the same.

I had some flexibility with the seating position, and also some (but not a lot of) flexibility with the width. I discussed the screen dimensions with Chris Seymour over the phone and went with his advise. My 125" diagonal scope screen from a 11 feet distance is very immersive, and the masked 16:9 image is reasonably big but not equally immersive.
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post #18295 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:19 PM
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on the phone with Emotiva about the 7350 noise issue...

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post #18296 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by logicators View Post

In your circumstances (width limited) it makes perfect sense to go 16:9 with a masking solution. I would do the same.

Actually, I'm height limited. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm planning to buy a 2.35 motorized screen with electric masking on the sides so that means I'm at a constant height (16:9, 2.35) for the screen with the 16x9 having less width than 2.35.
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post #18297 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

on the phone with Emotiva about the 7350 noise issue...

And entirely unfruitful. Basically I am stuck with it they said. Very frustrating since someone recently posted the got their 999 back and got an XPA-5 and it was quiet and only power noise from 10-12 inches from tweeter...

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post #18298 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 01:00 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. I bought the Sherbourn 7030 preamp and it has a few issues that will likely never be fixed. I don't think I'll ever buy a piece of Emotiva equipment.
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post #18299 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post

Thanks for the feedback. I bought the Sherbourn 7030 preamp and it has a few issues that will likely never be fixed. I don't think I'll ever buy a piece of Emotiva equipment.

Yea i'm a bit irritated since someone else was refunded. They said they didn't know what I was talking about. I said, "well eihter it happened or he is lying lol." I may eventually find a buyer and never buy from them again. Go iNuke's or crown's perhaps. Or just run off of my AVR since i'm crossed to a couple Seaton Submersives lol. Basically they told me i'm doing it wrong because I don't have a dedicated circuit, 20 amp etc. I know the perfect world conditions it should be set up in but I also know 99% if it was in those conditions it wouldn't change. I have tried multiple circuits with nothing at all on etc. I know for a fact it's amp noise!

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post #18300 of 23329 Old 04-15-2014, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

Haha. Same thing with me. The screen will be the same width regardless. Maybe I will just wait until Rich can get some of those top/bottom masking panels to turn 16:9 to 2.35:1. That could be the best of both worlds come to think of it. The main reason I began thinking about widescreen format is my second row can't see the bottom of the screen with 16:9 content and I don't want to raise the riser any more than it already is so I am kind of at a standstill.

Keep in mind that a 150" diagonal 2:35 screen = 120" diagonal 16:9. So you still get great size 16:9 screen for anything that benefits from that ratio.

I'm still considering this route and possible add curtains for masking duties, but likely not even needed since it's dark anyway.

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