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Official JTR speaker thread

3M views 44K replies 1K participants last post by  rcohen 
#1 ·

As more and more ppl buying these speakers, i thought that there should be a centralized thread to post pics, comments, setup.
 
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#12,701 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK!  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12750#post_23971227


Touché Il Duce ...

In all seriousness(if I can pull it off
), I like the LG as much for its gain management ability as I do for its raw power. More probably since the gain management has enabled me to increase my actual in-room dynamic range, whereas the headroom is just there so I can use all the speaker I purchased whenever I choose to do so. And because I am so fond of my ears, I haven't even tested those limits yet.
 
#12,702 ·
I've got plenty of power and of course love new stuff! I guess I'm not in the "for sure" camp as we don't know the price yet. I mean, these could run around 3.5K per speaker pretty easily, since Jeff won't be able to use eminence driver likely anymore, he'll need more of a sub driver I'd think, with some more excursion to be able to play 20hz!

I have to admit, I'm drooling at the mouth thinking of these! LOL
 
#12,703 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK!  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12750#post_23971249


Not at all. Good points but then think about the equivalent of three Caps up front under those amazing CD's in a 90/60 horn.


Pretty interesting picture ... no?

That's exactly what gives me pause. I have a hard enough time getting the FR optimized with subs I can move pretty much anywhere I want. I'd hate to have to deal with a massive null from a center speaker (or LR) I absolutely cannot move.
 
#12,704 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12700_100#post_23971358


I've got plenty of power and of course love new stuff! I guess I'm not in the "for sure" camp as we don't know the price yet. I mean, these could run around 3.5K per speaker pretty easily, since Jeff won't be able to use eminence driver likely anymore, he'll need more of a sub driver I'd think, with some more excursion to be able to play 20hz!

I have to admit, I'm drooling at the mouth thinking of these! LOL

i'm about to tell jeff that i'll put my deposit down now, to be first =p, seriously i only got my 212hts like 2 months ago.


not sure if 24" deep works for many people though, if you think about it, its friggin deep!
 
#12,705 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971360


That's exactly what gives me pause. I have a hard enough time getting the FR optimized with subs I can move pretty much anywhere I want. I'd hate to have to deal with a massive null from a center speaker (or LR) I absolutely cannot move.

Yup, room dimensions and treatments (and to a lesser extent EQ) would be critical to avoid that unfortunate situation. OTOH (and many here will like this
), more subs strategically placed around the room can solve that problem.


It is fun to ponder and I'm pondering on ...
 
#12,706 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971595


i'm about to tell jeff that i'll put my deposit down now, to be first =p, seriously i only got my 212hts like 2 months ago.


not sure if 24" deep works for many people though, if you think about it, its friggin deep!

Didn't even really think of the 24 deep part of the specs. That is a limiting factor for my set-up. I had built in stands made that are permanent when I finished off the basement last year. I realize they could be torn down and rebuilt but starting to sound like real work.... DANG IT
 
#12,709 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971288


In all seriousness(if I can pull it off
), I like the LG as much for its gain management ability as I do for its raw power. More probably since the gain management has enabled me to increase my actual in-room dynamic range, whereas the headroom is just there so I can use all the speaker I purchased whenever I choose to do so. And because I am so fond of my ears, I haven't even tested those limits yet.
Doc, running the LG at the gain levels that increased your dynamic range (was it 26dB?), can you run the amp to clip before the pre-amp clips or does the pre amp clip first at the lower gain settings?
 
#12,711 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971694


Didn't even really think of the 24 deep part of the specs. That is a limiting factor for my set-up. I had built in stands made that are permanent when I finished off the basement last year. I realize they could be torn down and rebuilt but starting to sound like real work.... DANG IT

Frohlich I really don't see how a full range would do much for you anyways. Isn't your setup for movies? Plus you have dual Cap S2's!..lol


So what good would a full range speaker do you down in your theatre where you have the built in speaker stands.
 
#12,713 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12700_100#post_23971715


Good news is you guys selling 212HT's won't have to look hard to find a buyer.


Look me up if you are.



ufokillerz - I'd drive out to NY from the midwest for those beauties you've got. No shipping required.

Ballz... Ya beat me to him!


Anyone else considering selling, please keep me in mind.


I'm kinda scratching my head at Jeff's approach on proposing a price increase and a full range offering.


Seems like a double hit against sales of the current Noesis line.


Hummmm...
 
#12,714 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23972181


So the full range speakers Jeff's talking about is a go? If so, I can't wait. Also will FR spreakers require a separate amp to drive it instead of the AVR?


Sounds like one of them might be and as a full range speaker, and if they are 95db efficiency, then it will be needing a pretty good amp to drive it. That argument is already being made for the 101db Noesis 212.



Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23972203


Ballz... Ya beat me to him!


Anyone else considering selling, please keep me in mind.


I'm kinda scratching my head at Jeff's approach on proposing a price increase and a full range offering.


Seems like a double hit against sales of the current Noesis line.


Hummmm...

In thinking about this I seriously doubt there will be many (if any) folks selling the Noesis to jump at what will certainly be (at least in the case of the 215) a much more expensive speaker. Archaea called it a "Flagship" loudspeaker for JTR and I think that is right on. The issues that Doc brought up are also valid so using the 215 as LCR in a HT environment would be a risky proposition without a lot of planning and forethought. It appears to be a true 2 channel monster flat to 20hz incorporating that amazing CD that we Noesis owners have come to love. I can see the 215 as incredible in a two channel music priority system (sans subs).


I suppose a pair of the 215's along with the 212HT as center and some additional sub woofage might give someone the ultimate movie/2 channel music system and I guess that's where my mind went at least initially. Honestly, I was thinking the 210 might be the answer for such a system but as others have stated only reaching down to 38Hz might make the 210 a non-starter.


I see developments like this as good for the brand and Jeff is clearly listening to comments about the need for a full range capable loudspeaker. I don't think there is any Noesis owner who wouldn't want to hear what Jeff could do with a speaker like the 215. That doesn't mean that we are ready to scrap our 212's (or even 228's) and jump ship. It is just another interesting alternative in a growing line of products and I for one can't wait to hear it.



As far as a price increase goes, it is I'm sure it's going to be nominal and directly related to an increase in material costs. I remember Mark Seaton telling me (and this was a few years ago) that Jeff's margins were too low. I believe that this is like all of his price increases over the years. It isn't Jeff moving to higher profit margins, but rather maintaining those relatively lean margins by offsetting costs.
 
#12,715 ·
It's great to see Jeff start this design. I'm sure he's tired of driving around the US to participate in these speaker shoot outs and not be able to cross over to a sub. Even though he fared well during these shoot outs I know it annoyed the hell out of him going up against Catalyst and Salks with no sub. Like I said before he had really good results at these events sans subs. Of course subs have also been used and results were even more favorable.
 
#12,717 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971884


Frohlich I really don't see how a full range would do much for you anyways. Isn't your setup for movies? Plus you have dual Cap S2's!..lol


So what good would a full range speaker do you down in your theatre where you have the built in speaker stands.

The speaker sounds interesting to me...but so do a lot of shiny toys. I think the space limitation might end up being a deal killer for me but I will follow them with great interest. The stands I have are only around 12 inches tall but they are built in. I had them custom made when I knew I was going to get the T12 last year (this was before the Noesis were ever released). I prefer if you don't cloud the fun with rational thought and facts!!!!
 
#12,718 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23971774


Doc, running the LG at the gain levels that increased your dynamic range (was it 26dB?), can you run the amp to clip before the pre-amp clips or does the pre amp clip first at the lower gain settings?

The global gain level (back dip switches) was set at 23 dB and I had an audible buzz/noise at my listening position which I isolated to be coming from the RCA'S of my Denon 4311. The Denon speaker trims were minus 8 at that gain. It was suggested on another thread that I reduce the amp gains even further to get rid of the noise. So I reduced the gains another 12 dB using the front gain knobs to an effective amp gain of 11 dB, which resulted in +4 trims on the Denon and an absolutely silent noise floor in my room.


I haven't measured the Denon outputs but it would surprise me if a +4 trim setting would result in clipping. It would seem to me that a well designed AVR should not clip at those trims. The bigger concern would be the amp and I'm nowhere near clip lights at any volume in-room that wouldn't require ear plugs. There's 5 lights on the amp and I've never seen the third one even blink.


At my usual and loudest listening levels in-room without earplugs I have so much headroom clipping is not even on the radar screen. And that's the advantage of copious headroom that is often overlooked.


Having the LG is not just about driving the speakers as loud as they can go (although that's part of it
), but in a large part it's having the headroom to optimize gain structures while remaining at the lowest distortion levels throughout the signal chain, keeping effective in-room dynamic range at its maximum.
 
#12,719 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich  /t/1165099/official-jtr-speaker-thread/12780#post_23972431


I prefer if you don't cloud the fun with rational thought and facts!!!!

That's why I've bowed out.
I fully understand the appreciation for the beast of a speaker these will become and I also think they are a great addition to the residential market for Jeff. But it seems they are, generally, targeting a different listener than most that frequent this thread. And that is not a bad thing since I think they will give JTR penetration into the high-end dedicated two-channel "audiophile" market.


Most here are running bass management schemes that are designed for crossovers in the 70 Hz+ range and rooms that are used in a dual fashion for movies and music. But if dreaming about a 20 Hz - 24 kHz beast in your theaters is what you want to do I don't want to interfere
.
 
#12,720 ·
There is a train of thought that having full range speakers for movies is ideal so the sub can actually only be assigned to the Dolby Digital or DTS .1 channel unique content rather than trying to reproduce a mesh of every channel. I've never had the capability or opportunity to test that idea because I never have owned true full range mains and surrounds.


People who have tried it, seem to say they enjoy it. I personally have not tested and I'm aware of no documented blind testing.


True 95 dB speakers are still easily be driven to reference (0) by a THX rated AVR. That is still significantly more sensitive than THX standard minimum specs (85 dB minimum with 20dB of headroom) allow for a certified THX AVR to hit reference levels in the given size room. (based on THX certification level. THX Ultra is good for a 3,000 cubic foot room at 85dB for instance).

http://www.thx.com/consumer/thx-technology/thx-reference-level/

http://www.thx.com/consumer/home-entertainment/home-theater/thx-certification-performance-categories/
 
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