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obxdiver's Avatar obxdiver 10:22 AM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post


Did you ever smell anything before it popped? Did you hear strain?

Nothing. It just started popping...loudly.

I agree with you that this would be considered abuse by any speaker company.

I know I am very lucky that Jeff covered it under warranty.

I have leaned a valuable lesson....cool.gif

rhed's Avatar rhed 10:32 AM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

10 minute loop of black hawk down scene with sub 10hz content to the point of failure with several systems?

Why?

Clinically speaking...

If I owned a speaker company I wouldn't warranty this. Sounds like you were trying to get them to blow and got what you asked for.

I see this like:
I ran my dodge viper for 10 minutes at redline rpm driving down the interstate in first gear. The engine blew, but dodge replaced it under warranty. Whew, now I'm scared to drive my new viper engine at 80 mph.


Just saying...

Jeff replacing that under warranty says quite a bit about the company IMO. I'm with n8dogg on this one. I think you are lucky Jeff replaced it. Prolly cost him about 1k to do so. Jeff may have to change the design a bit. Drop the amp power, or lessen the dsp boost, or something so stuff like this cannot happen no matter what is done by the end user.

Did you ever smell anything before it popped? Did you hear strain?

I myself did the Irene scene with my S2's. I ran the scene six times straight. And each time I increased the volume. If I remember, by the sixed time, I was at -5 MV I think. Anyway I tripped the breakers on all 4 S2's. And each one of them is on a dedicated 20 amp curcuit.
So now, I don't watch any movies even close to pass -10 anymore. Besides I get a bad nausea feeling if a do. It's just weirded. Anyway, that will all change when the 215's arrive. I'm gonna go for a more balanced approach now..lol
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 10:32 AM 05-04-2014
With the Oppo's test tone, (pink noise) I adjusted all 7 mains to 75dB, and the sub out to 80dB with my RS SPL meter (new batteries too).

One thing here about blowing these drivers. I know my RS SPL meter is actually 10db behind on LFE test tones. For example if I play a test tone and my RS SPL meter reads 80db it is actually 90db. I thought this was very common knowledge as I have read it everywhere since I have been into this hobby. So you were actually 90db? 15 hot over mains?
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 10:33 AM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

I myself did the Irene scene with my S2's. I ran the scene six times straight. And each time I increased the volume. If I remember, by the sixed time, I was at -5 MV I think. Anyway I tripped the breakers on all 4 S2's. And each one of them is on a dedicated 20 amp curcuit.
So now, I don't watch any movies even close to pass -10 anymore. Besides I get a bad nausea feeling if a do. It's just weirded. Anyway, that will all change when the 215's arrive. I'm gonna go for a more balanced approach now..lol

Yes we all grow up and mature at some point! biggrin.gif
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 10:45 AM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Are you using the HDMI link for REW? Perhaps wrong settings. Try the old RCA connection style.

Tell me more, what is the RCA style? I think uninstalling everything and re-instralling is what I am going to do. I have bass just not during my REW sweeps
craig john's Avatar craig john 12:23 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HToutofoffice View Post

Curious to know, what are the differences in sound with having the JTR's flush mounted into the wall as opposed to in air?
This article by Anthony Grimani explains the concept of baffle walls.
040601_baffled_again.pdf 180k .pdf file

Craig
Attached: 040601_baffled_again.pdf (180.4 KB) 
FOH's Avatar FOH 12:52 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by HToutofoffice View Post

Curious to know, what are the differences in sound with having the JTR's flush mounted into the wall as opposed to in air?

As craig john point out, the pdf by Anthony Grimani helps explain it.

However, the tangible differences in simple form would include; smoother midbass/upper bass, and more sound energy for less power. This is because the loudspeakers are more ideally coupled to the space. The energy is focused away from the plane of the speakers and toward the listener, due to the flush mounting.

Most all loudspeakers radiate omni-directionally down into the 500hz range and below. By focusing all that output into the forward plane, there's typically less destructive dips in the frequency response, and the aforementioned efficiency gains can be significant too.


Bottom line ... smoother response through the lower mids/upper bass, increased efficiencies in the lower range (less distortion for any given playback level).


Hope this helps
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 12:56 PM 05-04-2014
Craig,

Thanks for the linked document. Baffle is my plan. I'm getting it setup in the next few weeks. Painted the screen wall black this weekend and hung the screen. I'm going to try to hang the projector tonight - but have to go work on the rental property this afternoon. I won't be able to manage the curved baffle walls like at the end recommends at least initially. I'm just going to use the existing flat wall for now.... I can change it over the years as I have budget and time. Right now my wife and I have our hands completely full of projects with the current house and my wife is already starting to raise her eyebrows as I talk about home theater room options - knowing that there are other house necessities that need to be done first before any major optimizations of the home theater room. But in due time! I'm liking how it's coming together even early on. The 2.35:1 screen and Panasonic AE8000U projector I just picked up look great!

I got a kick out of figure 1. MS paint most likely...Blue stick figure man!
kma100's Avatar kma100 01:57 PM 05-04-2014
So is a baffle wall speaker the same as an in-wall, i.e. front of the speaker flush with the wall?
craig john's Avatar craig john 02:05 PM 05-04-2014
Another way to understand the benefits of a baffle wall is to understand the concept of "Speaker-Boundary Interference Response" or SBIR. https://www.gikacoustics.com/speaker-boundary-interference-response-sbir/

Nyal has a great explanation of SBIR with a calculator on his website also: http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/Speaker-Boundary-Interference.html

When you mount a speaker flush to the baffle, you eliminate the SBIR associated with that boundary. All in-wall speakers take advantage of this. However, most in-walls don't have back enclosures, and most walls are not true baffles; i.e., they're made of drywall which is porous to sound, especially at lower frequencies. However, when you take an enclosed speaker like a JTR speaker and place it flush with a hard, sound transmission resistant baffle, you get all the benefits of a baffle wall.

Archaea, do you plan to build some toe-in to your baffle wall? Toe-in is generally beneficial for most speakers, and I would imagine that would hold true for JTR speakers. The front side ports make it especially easy to build them into baffle walls, (although I've only ever seen sealed speakers used in baffle walls.)

Craig
craig john's Avatar craig john 02:11 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kma100 View Post

So is a baffle wall speaker the same as an in-wall, i.e. front of the speaker flush with the wall?
Yes, most in-wall speakers are designed as "infinite" baffle speakers. However, as I said above, most in-walls are compromised designs which don't take optimal advantage of the benefits of the infinite baffle design.

Craig
Pain Infliction's Avatar Pain Infliction 02:29 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

I myself did the Irene scene with my S2's. I ran the scene six times straight. And each time I increased the volume. If I remember, by the sixed time, I was at -5 MV I think. Anyway I tripped the breakers on all 4 S2's. And each one of them is on a dedicated 20 amp curcuit.
So now, I don't watch any movies even close to pass -10 anymore. Besides I get a bad nausea feeling if a do. It's just weirded. Anyway, that will all change when the 215's arrive. I'm gonna go for a more balanced approach now..lol

What are your future plans. I probably missed you saying it already, but are you keeping all four of your S2's and the 215's? That is a sick setup!
rhed's Avatar rhed 02:53 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pain Infliction View Post

What are your future plans. I probably missed you saying it already, but are you keeping all four of your S2's and the 215's? That is a sick setup!

Definately keeping the 4 S2's to go along with the 3 215's and 4 single 8's that's on order. With movies and SACD all speakers and subs will on. When days I just like to listen 2 channel music, I'll set the subs to "no". And "large" for mains. Right now I'm in the market for separate power for the 215's. But before I take the plunge on amps, my friend who's a DJ will lend me a few amps to try out. So it'll run on my AVR for now which is 4 ohm capable. Until I decide which amps to go with. I'm really looking into mono blocks though or bridge pro amps if I go that route.
jaimectrs's Avatar jaimectrs 03:35 PM 05-04-2014

good points, I will run Audyssey and make adjustments but it would not be useful to extrapolate the response to speakers I will get in the future.  I guess I'll just have to wait till I have my speakers to figure that stuff out, just too many variables. Even if someone on the forum had the same exact setup that I plan to have, they still would have a totally different response based on their room size and acoustic treatments... I think I'm starting to get it:).  I'll stick with a minidsp for now.


Archaea's Avatar Archaea 04:21 PM 05-04-2014
Yes I can toe in a little bit. I'm leaning toawards putting all three speakers behind the screen. That makes for an 11 foot spread left to right. All upright. The speakers are about 12" wide and my studs have 14" of space between each. So I can toe in enough with that two spare inches between the studs.
NWCgrad's Avatar NWCgrad 04:53 PM 05-04-2014
I bet that will be pretty awesome. Have you picked sub driver for those sealed enclosures you have? Really sucks about the delay on the Dayton Audio driver.
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 04:58 PM 05-04-2014
So with all this baffle talk is it second best to place absorption behind the speaker if a baffle wall is not possible? I mean better than leaving it bare?
rhed's Avatar rhed 05:55 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes we all grow up and mature at some point! biggrin.gif

Oh no.. Not me.. I refuse to be old..lol.. Maybe I produce to much testosterone.. Matter of fact I think I've been going through a 10 year mid crisis! Lol..
HTPCat's Avatar HTPCat 06:10 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Yes I can toe in a little bit. I'm leaning toawards putting all three speakers behind the screen. That makes for an 11 foot spread left to right. All upright. The speakers are about 12" wide and my studs have 14" of space between each. So I can toe in enough with that two spare inches between the studs.
I am thinking of doing a baffle wall also. Would have to DIY as there is very little in the HT budget. I will probably start the screen wall late summer and would be interested in following the details of your build when you do it. Is there a DIY guide that you are using to build it?
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 06:48 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Oh no.. Not me.. I refuse to be old..lol.. Maybe I produce to much testosterone.. Matter of fact I think I've been going through a 10 year mid crisis! Lol..

Maybe those new Red Wing boots combined with your exceptional Testosterone production will up your production at work and you could do a 7 channel 215RT systems with quad S2's eek.gif
rhed's Avatar rhed 07:05 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Maybe those new Red Wing boots combined with your exceptional Testosterone production will up your production at work and you could do a 7 channel 215RT systems with quad S2's eek.gif

LMAO!!.. Nice one brother! I caught on to that one! Lol!
kma100's Avatar kma100 07:05 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Yes, most in-wall speakers are designed as "infinite" baffle speakers. However, as I said above, most in-walls are compromised designs which don't take optimal advantage of the benefits of the infinite baffle design.

Craig

Thanks - will take a closer look at the PDF paper.
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 07:09 PM 05-04-2014
Well for those interested in my latest REW weirdness it has become obvious it is software acting up. I un-installed everything and re-installed following the Mac computer process found in AustinJerry's setup guide. I had followed it before when I was completely new and the setup and operation were flawless. I have literally been through 30 plus evenings of measurement sessions just getting to know the software and it's capabilities and obviously optimizing subwoofer placement in my room. And also to see the positive changes, and what filters to implement with my mini dsp unit. But now I can't even to get it to work right. There is a simple process in which you calibrate the SPL levels in REW on a button on REW's SPL meter. This obviously gives you an accurate noise floor and then accurate SPL levels of your sweeps. I had a noise floor of 44-45db before and after treatments about 41-42 db. As expected...But now after calibrating I have a noise floor of 71db in REW lol! My RS SPL meter reads 37db lol!

Anyway I think I am done trying to figure it out, although it will bug the crap out of me. I may pick up a windows based laptop to continue in the future. Unitl then I may troll HTS to see if any Mac users have had issues. And enjoy the dang system!!!!!!!!!
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 07:11 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post

LMAO!!.. Nice one brother! I caught on to that one! Lol!

For real though I finally got a pair of the Georgia Romeo's and they are the only shoe my feet have never hurt in! I'm all over the place and here and there I would get aches but not the Romeo's. I wouldn't say they are the most durable shoe and won't last like Red Wing's but the cost 65 a pair so...anyway, back to speaks...
rhed's Avatar rhed 07:15 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well for those interested in my latest REW weirdness it has become obvious it is software acting up. I un-installed everything and re-installed following the Mac computer process found in AustinJerry's setup guide. I had followed it before when I was completely new and the setup and operation were flawless. I have literally been through 30 plus evenings of measurement sessions just getting to know the software and it's capabilities and obviously optimizing subwoofer placement in my room. And also to see the positive changes, and what filters to implement with my mini dsp unit. But now I can't even to get it to work right. There is a simple process in which you calibrate the SPL levels in REW on a button on REW's SPL meter. This obviously gives you an accurate noise floor and then accurate SPL levels of your sweeps. I had a noise floor of 44-45db before and after treatments about 41-42 db. As expected...But now after calibrating I have a noise floor of 71db in REW lol! My RS SPL meter reads 37db lol!

Anyway I think I am done trying to figure it out, although it will bug the crap out of me. I may pick up a windows based laptop to continue in the future. Unitl then I may troll HTS to see if any Mac users have had issues. And enjoy the dang system!!!!!!!!!

jp.. Have you tried moving the subs around? Maybe try front firing the SubM's. Maybe xt32 is doing something to the subs.
Skylinestar's Avatar Skylinestar 08:48 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Tell me more, what is the RCA style? I think uninstalling everything and re-instralling is what I am going to do. I have bass just not during my REW sweeps
Instead of digital output via the computer's HDMI, use the conventional analogue out, ie 3.5mm audiojack or RCA on USB audio interface.
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 08:51 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Instead of digital output via the computer's HDMI, use the conventional analogue out, ie 3.5mm audiojack or RCA on USB audio interface.

hmmm, know of any tutorials on this setup? smile.gif
Skylinestar's Avatar Skylinestar 11:28 PM 05-04-2014
HToutofoffice's Avatar HToutofoffice 11:43 PM 05-04-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post


This article by Anthony Grimani explains the concept of baffle walls.
040601_baffled_again.pdf 180k .pdf file

Craig

 

Thanks, good read.


jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 12:20 AM 05-05-2014

Sweet! Thanks! So that is just a 3.5mm to L/R RCA HUH? Seems too simple!
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