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post #19351 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 08:18 PM
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Any thoughts on Marantz AV8801 pre-amp? Im thinking of just going all pro amps altogether. Maybe 3 Crown XLs 2000 to run the 3 215's. And 2 XLs1000 to run the 4 S8's.
its a great thought. That pre pro and those amps get good reviews. Does you DJ buddy have some of those you can try out?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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post #19352 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Any thoughts on Marantz AV8801 pre-amp? Im thinking of just going all pro amps altogether. Maybe 3 Crown XLs 2000 to run the 3 215's. And 2 XLs1000 to run the 4 S8's.

Marantz: It looks overpriced compared to it's competitors, unless there's a good possibility you'll want to process 11 channels simultaneously in the future. I'd consider the Onkyo PR-SC5509 (or equivalent Integra); for over a grand less you don't miss much other than 11 channels and also pick up THX processing modes, some of which are pretty good (IMO). With the Onkyo you must choose between wide or height channels.

Here's a comparo: Onkyo PR-SC5509 -v- Marantz AV8801

The Onkyo and Marantz' rated XLR output levels are 2.0V and 2.4V respectively, so the Marantz has the edge here. The Onkyo's maximum XLR output level is 11V (wow!). Marantz don't quote a maximum XLR output level for some reason.

Crown XLS: I'm not positive, but I've read somewhere that the 1000 is a step down in build quality/components from the rest of the range. Therefore it's advisable to go for the at least the 1500. Others may clarify.
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post #19353 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 09:02 PM
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its a great thought. That pre pro and those amps get good reviews. Does you DJ buddy have some of those you can try out?
Hey Ibrown.. Good to hear from you. Yea, he does but I think he has the first XTi series and QSC's. I've been reading a lot lately. And I think I'm just mainly going for XLR connectivity and good video processing at the same time. I also been on the Crown forums. And with my post there about the XLS series. The Crown admin there at first thought the xls 2000 would be to much for any home audio speakers in bridge mode. Until he ask what speakers I'm gonna use the amp for. I sent him the link for the 215RT from JTR website. I think Crown might be recommending the XTi 6002. http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4675
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post #19354 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Marantz: It looks overpriced compared to it's competitors, unless there's a good possibility you'll want to process 11 channels simultaneously in the future. I'd consider the Onkyo PR-SC5509 (or equivalent Integra); for over a grand less you don't miss much other than 11 channels and also pick up THX processing modes, some of which are pretty good (IMO). With the Onkyo you must choose between wide or height channels.

Here's a comparo: Onkyo PR-SC5509 -v- Marantz AV8801

The Onkyo and Marantz' rated XLR output levels are 2.0V and 2.4V respectively, so the Marantz has the edge here. The Onkyo's maximum XLR output level is 11V (wow!). Marantz don't quote a maximum XLR output level for some reason.

Crown XLS: I'm not positive, but I've read somewhere that the 1000 is a step down in build quality/components from the rest of the range. Therefore it's advisable to go for the at least the 1500. Others may clarify.

Thanks GIEGAR.. I never looked into Onkyo yet. Will do though. I've looked at the Integra 60.5. This model interest me. But we don't have a authorize dealer here in Hawaii. Yea, I kind of want to buy the audio gear locally incase something happen. With the Marantz, besides Audyssey XT32, it also features Audyssey Sub EQ HT. Is that a plus feature? Btw, I've read about the xls 1000. And yes it is a step down. But I don't know if it'll matter since I'm using the amp for the surrounds? If it does, then I guess I should look into the 1500.
http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/mono-stereo-amps-59/crown-audio-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier-official-thread-1319/
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post #19355 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 10:31 PM
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Hey all. I plan on glueing my Volt 10 cab's tomm. I was just planning on using Gorilla glue but on my Volt 10 thread I created I was advised not to use Gorilla glue as it expands. And referenced Titebond glue.
Carp, what did you use for your SI flat packs? Or those of you who know? smile.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-International-5004-Titebond-2-16-Ounce/dp/B0000223UR

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
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post #19356 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey all. I plan on glueing my Volt 10 cab's tomm. I was just planning on using Gorilla glue but on my Volt 10 thread I created I was advised not to use Gorilla glue as it expands. And referenced Titebond glue.
Carp, what did you use for your SI flat packs? Or those of you who know? smile.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-International-5004-Titebond-2-16-Ounce/dp/B0000223UR

Oh, I didn't know this. I used Gorilla glue and had no issues.

3 - JTR 228's LCR (game room)
4 - DIY Sound Group V-8 Coaxials in slanted boxes (game room)
4 - PSA Triax's (game room)
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post #19357 of 30532 Old 05-10-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey all. I plan on glueing my Volt 10 cab's tomm. I was just planning on using Gorilla glue but on my Volt 10 thread I created I was advised not to use Gorilla glue as it expands. And referenced Titebond glue.
Carp, what did you use for your SI flat packs? Or those of you who know? smile.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-International-5004-Titebond-2-16-Ounce/dp/B0000223UR

I use Titebond III for all of my woodworking but Titebond II would work fine as well. Besides being stronger and suitable for outdoor projects, Titebond III has a slightly longer open time, which is helpful when you are trying to clamp or screw larger items. You can get either from the big box stores and I think there is only a $1 or $2 difference in price for the 16 oz. bottle.

Gorilla glue isn't a wood glue and while it might work, it isn't the best tool for the job...IMO.

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post #19358 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:31 AM
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I use Titebond III for all of my woodworking but Titebond II would work fine as well. Besides being stronger and suitable for outdoor projects, Titebond III has a slightly longer open time, which is helpful when you are trying to clamp or screw larger items. You can get either from the big box stores and I think there is only a $1 or $2 difference in price for the 16 oz. bottle.

Gorilla glue isn't a wood glue and while it might work, it isn't the best tool for the job...IMO.

Ok, I saw a cheap bottle on Amazon. Hopefully Lowes or Home Depot will have it.

For sale: Ben Q W7000 Projector W/four pairs of 3D glasses, Denon 4520 AVR, Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB, Silver Ticket 92" Fixed frame Aluminum PJ Screen. PM for any interests :)
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
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post #19359 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 01:47 AM
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The Yamaha CX-A5000 pre-amp seems well built also. Amazon has it for 2499 vs 2999. BB price matches with Amazon. smile.gif
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post #19360 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 04:50 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post

Thanks GIEGAR.. I never looked into Onkyo yet. Will do though. I've looked at the Integra 60.5. This model interest me. But we don't have a authorize dealer here in Hawaii. Yea, I kind of want to buy the audio gear locally incase something happen. With the Marantz, besides Audyssey XT32, it also features Audyssey Sub EQ HT. Is that a plus feature? Btw, I've read about the xls 1000. And yes it is a step down. But I don't know if it'll matter since I'm using the amp for the surrounds? If it does, then I guess I should look into the 1500.
http://www.hometheaterequipment.com/mono-stereo-amps-59/crown-audio-xls-drivecore-series-amplifier-official-thread-1319/
Integras are generally sold through custom installer channels rather than dealers, so if you haven't already you could check with local CI's. They'll probably push hard to sell you their services as well though. The Onkyo also features Audyssey Sub EQ HT, so it's even Stevens there. A feature that the Marantz has going for it is comprehensive support for Apple including AirPlay. The Onkyo does not support AirPlay.

Crown: I looked it up and the only thing that's reflected in the XLS1000's specs is has a higher noise floor than the rest of XLS's: a SNR of 97dB v 103dB for the rest. SNR of 97dB is still pretty good though, so probably not an issue.

http://www.crownaudio.com/media/wysiwyg/XLS/XLS-DC_datasheet.pdf

Quote:
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The Yamaha CX-A5000 pre-amp seems well built also. Amazon has it for 2499 vs 2999. BB price matches with Amazon. smile.gif
The Yamaha is a very solid unit. I have two issues with it though:
  1. It's YPAO isn't a patch on Audyssey XT32 (IMO) and does comparatively little for the subs in the way of EQ.
  2. No XLR outputs for the subs. This is a big oversight, especially for those of you with premium subs.
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post #19361 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 05:48 AM
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Thanks again GIEGAR.. Didn't notice that the Yamaha doesn't have XLR sub outs. What a waste. The Onkyo is starting to get interesting also.
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post #19362 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 06:04 AM
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Hey Ibrown.. Good to hear from you. Yea, he does but I think he has the first XTi series and QSC's. I've been reading a lot lately. And I think I'm just mainly going for XLR connectivity and good video processing at the same time. I also been on the Crown forums. And with my post there about the XLS series. The Crown admin there at first thought the xls 2000 would be to much for any home audio speakers in bridge mode. Until he ask what speakers I'm gonna use the amp for. I sent him the link for the 215RT from JTR website. I think Crown might be recommending the XTi 6002. http://www.crownaudio.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4675
good to hear from you to Rhed. Forgot to mention about the xls 1000 maybe not being quite up to par but Giegar was all over it!! Great thread contributors hear. Funny they thought the Crown 2000 would be too much. 99.9% of the time they would be right. I got the same from one of the LG distributors. I really like your decision for XLR connections. I am not even going to hook up my pro amp until the XMC1 balanced pre pro gets here.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #19363 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 06:17 AM
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good to hear from you to Rhed. Forgot to mention about the xls 1000 maybe not being quite up to par but Giegar was all over it!! Great thread contributors hear. Funny they thought the Crown 2000 would be too much. 99.9% of the time they would be right. I got the same from one of the LG distributors. I really like your decision for XLR connections. I am not even going to hook up my pro amp until the XMC1 balanced pre pro gets here.

I bought the Sherbourn PT-7030 preamp on clearance and even at the reduced price I'm not happy with it. Too many small issues and Emotiva now refuses to do an update even though they promised one around the time they were selling them. No way in hell I would buy a preamp from Emptiva again. I'll stick with the big boys that have been doing them longer and have a better track record.

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post #19364 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Hey all. I plan on glueing my Volt 10 cab's tomm. I was just planning on using Gorilla glue but on my Volt 10 thread I created I was advised not to use Gorilla glue as it expands. And referenced Titebond glue.
Carp, what did you use for your SI flat packs? Or those of you who know? smile.gif

http://www.amazon.com/Franklin-International-5004-Titebond-2-16-Ounce/dp/B0000223UR


I used titebond 2 and that pl premium stuff but you won't need the pl on speakers I wouldn't think.
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post #19365 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 06:42 AM
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I bought the Sherbourn PT-7030 preamp on clearance and even at the reduced price I'm not happy with it. Too many small issues and Emotiva now refuses to do an update even though they promised one around the time they were selling them. No way in hell I would buy a preamp from Emptiva again. I'll stick with the big boys that have been doing them longer and have a better track record.
yeah its a risk but if the Dirac is implemented correctly it could be a huge win. At the price I am getting it for there is no way I will lose money. If I need to go another direction after trying it I may be looking for something with triinnov or dirac (could be costly to do either if Emotiva fails). Maybe the minidsp with dirac if we could get something to handle 5 sat channels plus four subs.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #19366 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

Marantz: It looks overpriced compared to it's competitors, unless there's a good possibility you'll want to process 11 channels simultaneously in the future. I'd consider the Onkyo PR-SC5509 (or equivalent Integra); for over a grand less you don't miss much other than 11 channels and also pick up THX processing modes, some of which are pretty good (IMO). With the Onkyo you must choose between wide or height channels.

Here's a comparo: Onkyo PR-SC5509 -v- Marantz AV8801

The Onkyo and Marantz' rated XLR output levels are 2.0V and 2.4V respectively, so the Marantz has the edge here. The Onkyo's maximum XLR output level is 11V (wow!). Marantz don't quote a maximum XLR output level for some reason.

Crown XLS: I'm not positive, but I've read somewhere that the 1000 is a step down in build quality/components from the rest of the range. Therefore it's advisable to go for the at least the 1500. Others may clarify.
The Marantz is a great match with JTR Noesis though.
It has a smooth presentation while JTR s are very direct.
Combining these two sounds dynamic yet composed and pleasant.

The Onkyos I heard were all on the exciting side of the spectrum and my guess is these can be overwhelming with JTR.
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post #19367 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 08:07 AM
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Well, I've built DIY using pretty much every kind of glue there is. Gorilla glue works perfectly fine, yes it may expand a but but so does PL and everyone recommends that....

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #19368 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 08:27 AM
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If you want to make your mom cry.. show her this video...

And play it on your Home Theater!!
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post #19369 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 10:21 AM
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Well, I've built DIY using pretty much every kind of glue there is. Gorilla glue works perfectly fine, yes it may expand a but but so does PL and everyone recommends that....

Here's a glue strength test that shows yellow carpenters glue, Gorilla Glue, Titebond 3, PL, and Weldbond would all work well. Based on the guys conclusions, if you don't use glue much, I'd get the carpenters glue as he says it doesn't have shelf life issues. After a year or two, I have seen Titebond 3 start to coagulate. Gorilla Glue's site claims a shelf life of 1 year and I've personally had to throw away half a bottle that became hard but had probably had it a couple years.
http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html

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post #19370 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by staaled View Post

The Marantz is a great match with JTR Noesis though.
It has a smooth presentation while JTR s are very direct.
Combining these two sounds dynamic yet composed and pleasant.

The Onkyos I heard were all on the exciting side of the spectrum and my guess is these can be overwhelming with JTR.

Been reading around the receiver thread. And the 8801 will be replaced by a newer pre-amp this year. I might just wait this one out till that happens. Hmm, who knows, maybe the current 8801 will see a price decrease. I guess for now, I'll just experiment with pro amps from the pre outs of my AVR.
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If you want to make your mom cry.. show her this video...

And play it on your Home Theater!!
Thanks....and yes it worked!
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post #19372 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 10:56 AM
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Here's a glue strength test that shows yellow carpenters glue, Gorilla Glue, Titebond 3, PL, and Weldbond would all work well. Based on the guys conclusions, if you don't use glue much, I'd get the carpenters glue as he says it doesn't have shelf life issues. After a year or two, I have seen Titebond 3 start to coagulate. Gorilla Glue's site claims a shelf life of 1 year and I've personally had to throw away half a bottle that became hard but had probably had it a couple years.
http://woodgears.ca/joint_strength/glue.html

You realize that test proves that any of the glues will work 100% in building a speaker or sub. Their strength is 10 times what a sub box will go through, even the weakest glue is far overkill for what we use it for.
All I'm saying is you may have a preference to use this or that but in the end, anything you get will work 100%.

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post #19373 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 11:33 AM
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You realize that test proves that any of the glues will work 100% in building a speaker or sub. Their strength is 10 times what a sub box will go through, even the weakest glue is far overkill for what we use it for.
All I'm saying is you may have a preference to use this or that but in the end, anything you get will work 100%.

When I first started that post I was going to show you how superior the Titebond 3 glue was for woodworking, as I had read other glue tests before. Then I had to redo my post when I read the results and figured out it really didn't matter. biggrin.gif So like you said and like my first sentence states, just about any of the glues would work well for our speaker/sub boxes, even without screws/staples.

If you have wood glue, Gorilla glue, or PL lying around, I'd use it. If you need to go out and buy some glue, I'd recommend yellow carpenters glue based on the fact it is cheaper and has a longer shelf life than most other glues we might use.

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post #19374 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 11:46 AM
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Actually, regarding the glue, one key thing to look at is open time and dry time. I like Tightbond 3 as it has a longer open time than carpenters glue, which I sometimes need while putting clamps in place for a larger project. For me, I'll pay the premium for that right there. I don't use Gorilla glue enough to speak to its open time.

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post #19375 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:13 PM
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If you want to make your mom cry.. show her this video...

And play it on your Home Theater!!

Nice one CG.. The wifey teared. "REALLY"! biggrin.gif
Ok.. Now I can go prepro shopping.. wink.gif
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Thinking of upgrading my JBL S-38s to either Triple 8s or 228s all around (7 total). I am a firm believer in using the same speakers all around for a 100% seamless soundstage. The front left/right will be placed vertical while the center and 4 surrounds will be horizontal (I assume the triple 8 and 228 can be placed either way?).

I have a sealed 12x17.5 room with only 1 row of seating (a couch).

My question is which speaker would work best for my needs? It sounds like most have a slight preference for the 228, but I have also read the 228s don't work well as surrounds which has me thinking that the T8 might be a better choice. Thoughts?

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post #19377 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:31 PM
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Thinking of upgrading my JBL S-38s to either Triple 8s or 228s all around (7 total). I am a firm believer in using the same speakers all around for a 100% seamless soundstage. The front left/right will be placed vertical while the center and 4 surrounds will be horizontal (I assume the triple 8 and 228 can be placed either way?).

I have a sealed 12x17.5 room with only 1 row of seating (a couch).

My question is which speaker would work best for my needs? It sounds like most have a slight preference for the 228, but I have also read the 228s don't work well as surrounds which has me thinking that the T8 might be a better choice. Thoughts?

That would be a wicked setup toe. 228's all around? Nice!
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post #19378 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Toe View Post

Thinking of upgrading my JBL S-38s to either Triple 8s or 228s all around (7 total). I am a firm believer in using the same speakers all around for a 100% seamless soundstage. The front left/right will be placed vertical while the center and 4 surrounds will be horizontal (I assume the triple 8 and 228 can be placed either way?).

I have a sealed 12x17.5 room with only 1 row of seating (a couch).

My question is which speaker would work best for my needs? It sounds like most have a slight preference for the 228, but I have also read the 228s don't work well as surrounds which has me thinking that the T8 might be a better choice. Thoughts?

I'd suggest 7 of the 215RTs. I'm pretty sure those will give you a seamless soundstage, it will almost be like the sound is IN YOUR HEAD. smile.gif I haven't heard the 228 but I do believe they would be much more directional than the Triple 8's, which have a wider dispersion. I'm not positive but I believe the 228 and the T8 use the same compression driver. The truly big step up is from the 228 to the 212, which has a much nicer compression driver. I have the 212s and the Slanted 8s and I think they sound good together. For movies, I want my surrounds to fill in so I shouldn't even hear them distinctly. For me, even though the 212s and S8s sound different when compared head to head, the S8s do a fine job as surrounds with the 212s...IMO.

Good luck. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

David

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post #19379 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:35 PM
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I'd suggest 7 of the 215RTs.

Speaking of that, who is going to be the first idiot with 7 215RTs? I say idiot because I will be insanely jealous and not like that person...unless I have a chance to hear said system, which means I'll suck up and be your best bud. biggrin.gif

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post #19380 of 30532 Old 05-11-2014, 12:42 PM
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I'd suggest 7 of the 215RTs. I'm pretty sure those will give you a seamless soundstage, it will almost be like the sound is IN YOUR HEAD. smile.gif I haven't heard the 228 but I do believe they would be much more directional than the Triple 8's, which have a wider dispersion. I'm not positive but I believe the 228 and the T8 use the same compression driver. The truly big step up is from the 228 to the 212, which has a much nicer compression driver. I have the 212s and the Slanted 8s and I think they sound good together. For movies, I want my surrounds to fill in so I shouldn't even hear them distinctly. For me, even though the 212s and S8s sound different when compared head to head, the S8s do a fine job as surrounds with the 212s...IMO.

Good luck. I don't think you could go wrong with either.

David

Can't afford the 212s and certainly not the 215s! tongue.gif Doing 7 of the 228s or T8 will have to be done in a few steps (LCR first and the surrounds a bit later on) as it is!

Thanks all for the feedback so far. Curious to hear more thoughts on if the T8 would work better as a surround vs the 228 in my room/setup and if both can be placed horizontally without issue for surrounds while the front left/right would be vertical.

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