Official JTR speaker thread - Page 670 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20071 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

You won't have any issue seeing the weave at 16' on any Seymour screen and no problem (IMO) for 152" diagonal with a 600ES.
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post #20072 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

+1

Dlbeck-

I see your Savoy build thread, can you comment on Seymour fabric see my post above

Impressive thread, I will have dive in to read when I get a chance

thanks V
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post #20073 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:19 PM
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Thanks...for the quick reply

what about sound attenuation, JTR blast right through ref+ volume?

V
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post #20074 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:20 PM
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I must have been typing at the same time you were. I would go with the XD but feel free to call Chris or send him a PM.
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post #20075 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Even if the Sony is a light cannon I would not use the EN4K screen material with that large of a screen, over time your bulb will dim and the EN4K material is just too dim IMO.

I only have a 120" screen and with my RS45 in high lamp mode I still thought it was too dim.
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post #20076 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Thanks...for the quick reply

what about sound attenuation, JTR blast right through ref+ volume?

V

For 99% of the people the comb filtering that occurs in the upper frequencies is a non-issue. Of course you will have people disagree with that. Just my 2 cents.
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post #20077 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 07:39 PM
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Thanks guys for the "real deal" on the Seymour line...

V
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post #20078 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

As dlbeck said, Seymour states there is approx 1.4db of attenuation above 2khz with the XD weave fabric. It has the least audio impact of any AT screen material.

I sit 12' from a 138" diag 16:9 XD screen and cannot see the weave. From the same distance, the Stewart Microperf was easily visible and distracting plus it has relatively poor acoustic performance.

I would think the very bright 600es would make a fantastic 2D picture on a 2.35 152" XD screen in a light controlled room. smile.gif

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post #20079 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Even if the Sony is a light cannon I would not use the EN4K screen material with that large of a screen, over time your bulb will dim and the EN4K material is just too dim IMO.

I only have a 120" screen and with my RS45 in high lamp mode I still thought it was too dim.

I agree. The EN4K is too dim. The Centerstage XD is very bright in comparison (and I believe that's a 0.9 gain).

When I experimented with the Sony 4K 500ES projector, the XD performed better than the EN4K.. I don't know why but when using a 4K projector, you can actually stand a lot closer to the XD material and not see the weave as compared to using 2K projectors.
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post #20080 of 30452 Old 05-28-2014, 11:10 PM
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So I am thinking about an Oppo 103D. Who of you have experience with the Darbee unit? Also it seems there are a couple different Darbee models and Oppo's site doesn't specify which one. I assume the latest or it may not matter. Anyway I have been trying to talk myself out of a $600 Blu Ray player (drop in the bucket around here lol) but after watching this youtube vid (be sure to set to 1080p) I am hooked again. Besides you get a world class Blu Ray player as well lol! Anyway it's this Oppo or a &100 Blu Ray player...Then I can pick up a new Glock 17 or the nicer BBQ in time for summer...hmmm... smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhE2CvkRYM

Also I know people do things with Oppo players that other Samsung type Blu Ray players don't do. I will just hook it into my Denon 4520 and load the movies into the tray smile.gif

Here is a HQ pic comparison
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/78188_4a.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/31359_4b.png

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post #20081 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 01:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Don't be surprise when you find yourself sitting closer than 10 feet from a 152 inch screen. 4K is a whole different animal. You can be much closer and be much more immerssive.

I watched Gravity in 3D on an 8 feet wide screen, 6 feet away. Felt like looking thru a window into space. (That was a different screen though, a non-at screen).

BTW: I can't confirm this yet, but it was something I sort of noticed without actual experiment with different scenes, etc. When I put up a sample of the XD material with the 500ES, suddenly i can't see the weave at all even at much closer than 10 feet.. like even at 6 or 7 feet away. Again, I can't confirm this... but with a 2K projector somehow i notice the weave more... not sure why this is...

Also, both my friend and I noticed the image softer and not as sharp on the EN4K screen as opposed to the XD screen. It was instantly noticeable. This is strange that we both prefer a screen not designed for 4K vs one that is specially designed for it.
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post #20082 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 04:58 AM
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I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince
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post #20083 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So I am thinking about an Oppo 103D. Who of you have experience with the Darbee unit? Also it seems there are a couple different Darbee models and Oppo's site doesn't specify which one. I assume the latest or it may not matter. Anyway I have been trying to talk myself out of a $600 Blu Ray player (drop in the bucket around here lol) but after watching this youtube vid (be sure to set to 1080p) I am hooked again. Besides you get a world class Blu Ray player as well lol! Anyway it's this Oppo or a &100 Blu Ray player...Then I can pick up a new Glock 17 or the nicer BBQ in time for summer...hmmm... smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhE2CvkRYM

Also I know people do things with Oppo players that other Samsung type Blu Ray players don't do. I will just hook it into my Denon 4520 and load the movies into the tray smile.gif

Here is a HQ pic comparison
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/78188_4a.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/31359_4b.png

I had the darbee stand alone unit and to me it just looked like added noise and artifacts to the picture. Sent it right back. I believe carp here had the same experience.

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post #20084 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Here is the measurement of the XD vs stewart microperf vs no screen at all. You can clearly see the XD splits the difference and does significantly better than the stewart on the top end.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince

The falcon has an even tighter weave than the XD and certainly should be considered. Rich and I have been emailing lately about the new 16:9 masking panels he is working on to make a cinema scope screen so that will be another cool option coming up as well. I might be the guinea pig for the panels here very shortly as a matter of fact smile.gif

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post #20085 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince

The main advantage of the Falcon scree material is that it has a much less noticeable weave in the material, with the XD I could easily see the weave from 9-10ft away but with the Falcon screen material you had to be 5-6ft away before you could see it. The Falcon screen was also $300 less in price, which is a win win in my books. smile.gif

But with that being said, your first row is more then far enough away that the screen weave of the XD material wouldn't be an issue.

Like Beast mentioned both brands will have masking panels, and again the Falcon's will be less money.

I've been extremely happy with my Falcon screen, but really both are great products smile.gif
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post #20086 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 09:42 AM
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Hi guys.....

Question: What's a better bang for the buck in JTR gear... speakers, or subs?


For a given dollar limit, would you be better off with...
  1. "X" brand speakers, and JTR subs?
  2. JTR speakers, and "X" brand subs?
  3. JTR speakers with JTR subs!?

Some of you may recall that I sold my Klipsch RF-7ii package, and I've been meaning to replace it with nicer speakers. I need a sub too! I was considering going with JTR for either the speakers, the subs, or both. I just cannot afford a full JTR speaker and sub setup all at once though.


Furthermore... I've been keenly interested in hearing about the 210RT speaker. Has anyone heard or seen this one yet?
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post #20087 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Hi guys.....

Question: What's a better bang for the buck in JTR gear... speakers, or subs?


For a given dollar limit, would you be better off with...
  1. "X" brand speakers, and JTR subs?
  2. JTR speakers, and "X" brand subs?
  3. JTR speakers with JTR subs!?

Some of you may recall that I sold my Klipsch RF-7ii package, and I've been meaning to replace it with nicer speakers. I need a sub too! I was considering going with JTR for either the speakers, the subs, or both. I just cannot afford a full JTR speaker and sub setup all at once though.


Furthermore... I've been keenly interested in hearing about the 210RT speaker. Has anyone heard or seen this one yet?

If you must choose then speakers comes first. There are many other cheaper sub options including diy.

Of course most cheaper subs can't really keep up with the high efficiency of jtr speakers but you can still live with it.
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post #20088 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Hi guys.....

Question: What's a better bang for the buck in JTR gear... speakers, or subs?


For a given dollar limit, would you be better off with...
  1. "X" brand speakers, and JTR subs?
  2. JTR speakers, and "X" brand subs?
  3. JTR speakers with JTR subs!?

Some of you may recall that I sold my Klipsch RF-7ii package, and I've been meaning to replace it with nicer speakers. I need a sub too! I was considering going with JTR for either the speakers, the subs, or both. I just cannot afford a full JTR speaker and sub setup all at once though.


Furthermore... I've been keenly interested in hearing about the 210RT speaker. Has anyone heard or seen this one yet?
I would have kept the Klipsh RF 7's and just went with JTR subs and added new speakers later. I really don't know what to say here. What is the budget?
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post #20089 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 09:59 AM
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If you must choose then speakers comes first. There are many other cheaper sub options including diy.

Of course most cheaper subs can't really keep up with the high efficiency of jtr speakers but you can still live with it.

Well, my main interest is home theater, but also some music too.

I owned Klipsch RF-7iis a few months ago, and I liked their level of output, but i was hoping for cleaner, more realistic sound output. I sold them, planning to upgrade to nicer speakers... but I haven't made a decision yet.

I guess I'm wondering, is there anything between those RF-7iis, and the JTR Noesis 228s, 212s or 210RTs that might make sense? (like, speakers in a different brand?)
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post #20090 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I would have kept the Klipsh RF 7's and just went with JTR subs and added new speakers later. I really don't know what to say here. What is the budget?

I considered that. I wasn't super impressed with the quality of the RF-7iis though. Something always seemed lacking to me.. not just in bass, but overall quality and realism. I had been listening to them by themselves, with no subs to color the experience.
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post #20091 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post

I would have kept the Klipsh RF 7's and just went with JTR subs and added new speakers later. I really don't know what to say here. What is the budget?

I have to disagree with you on that one Dave. I would way rather have DIY subs and JTR speakers. For example forum member doublewing11 bought a single Cap S2 and wasn't happy with the performance in his room. He ended up selling it and bought four UXL-18's, four flat pack cabinets from Erich and a single IPR2-7500 to power all four. He's now flat to 8hz in his room, something a single Cap S2 couldn't do. All of that for less then the cost of the S2.

Landmonster, I say build your own subs and buy JTR speakers.
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post #20092 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Well, my main interest is home theater, but also some music too.

I owned Klipsch RF-7iis a few months ago, and I liked their level of output, but i was hoping for cleaner, more realistic sound output. I sold them, planning to upgrade to nicer speakers... but I haven't made a decision yet.

I guess I'm wondering, is there anything between those RF-7iis, and the JTR Noesis 228s, 212s or 210RTs that might make sense? (like, speakers in a different brand?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

I considered that. I wasn't super impressed with the quality of the RF-7iis though. Something always seemed lacking to me.. not just in bass, but overall quality and realism. I had been listening to them by themselves, with no subs to color the experience.
I think you answered your question.
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post #20093 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:08 AM
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I have to disagree with you on that one Dave. I would way rather have DIY subs and JTR speakers. For example forum member doublewing11 bought a single Cap S2 and wasn't happy with the performance in his room. He ended up selling it and bought four UXL-18's, four flat pack cabinets from Erich and a single IPR2-7500 to power all four. He's now flat to 8hz in his room, something a single Cap S2 couldn't do. All of that for less then the cost of the S2.

Landmonster, I say build your own subs and buy JTR speakers.

How much better are JTRs than something like the RF-7iis? I can't seem to get a definitive answer on this, and I can't audition the JTRs anywhere close by me.


I'd be considering the 228s, 212s, or new 210RTs if I bought JTR speakers.
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post #20094 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:10 AM
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I think you answered your question.

Well I already knew I wasn't satisfied with the RF-7iis. I suppose the question is.... would speakers in another brand suffice (better than klipsch, but not as good/expensive as JTR), or should I go all the way up to JTR?
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post #20095 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Hi guys.....

Question: What's a better bang for the buck in JTR gear... speakers, or subs?

[*] JTR speakers with JTR subs!?
[/LIST]
Jeff is the King of subwoofers. smile.gif
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post #20096 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

How much better are JTRs than something like the RF-7iis? I can't seem to get a definitive answer on this, and I can't audition the JTRs anywhere close by me.


I'd be considering the 228s, 212s, or new 210RTs if I bought JTR speakers.

Well I haven't been able to compare the RF-7ii's to my 228HT's directly at the exact same time but I just found the RF7's to just be too fatiguing for me. I also found the 228HT's to be more detailed.

I'm not sure how the 210RT's would compare though.
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post #20097 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:16 AM
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Jeff has awesome subs, but I'd have to say that DIY is king of subwoofers wink.gif
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post #20098 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:20 AM
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Well I haven't been able to compare the RF-7ii's to my 228HT's directly at the exact same time but I just found the RF7's to just be too fatiguing for me. I also found the 228HT's to be more detailed.

I'm not sure how the 210RT's would compare though.

Given what you know (I know an A/B test is not possible), would you say the 228s are a substantial upgrade over the Kliscphes?
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post #20099 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Given what you know (I know an A/B test is not possible), would you say the 228s are a substantial upgrade over the Kliscphes?

I think I posted this to you before when you were talking about it, if I was starting from ground zero I would have definitely gone with the 228HT's over the RF-7ii's, but don't know for sure I would do that if I had already had the RF-7ii's. But since you've already gotten rid of the RF-7ii's that doesn't really matter any more.

Yes I personally feel that the 228HT's are a big enough upgrade over the RF7's to justify buying them. Like I said the RF7's were fatiguing to me and the 228HT's just did everything a little better. The only advantage the RF7's would have is the bass, but if you're running the 228HT's with subs that's not an issue at all.
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post #20100 of 30452 Old 05-29-2014, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post

Well I already knew I wasn't satisfied with the RF-7iis. I suppose the question is.... would speakers in another brand suffice (better than klipsch, but not as good/expensive as JTR), or should I go all the way up to JTR?
I will be honest, if you don't like the Klipsh, maybe then you will not like the Noesis. I would suggest demoing a pair. I would personally opt for the 212's vs the 210's. If you plan on crossing, the 212's would be better for sure. You are going to have to really listen to some speakers because you have to like them. I actually like the RF7's so I am wondering if you like the horn sound?
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