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ratm's Avatar ratm 08:22 AM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I was serious about the 5 215RT's even from a best value standpoint. That's 5 pairs of 15" sub drivers distributed around the room. In a large space like yours it is doable and for movies and M/C music, it would sound incredible. cool.gif

I cant even imagine that.

coolgeek's Avatar coolgeek 08:30 AM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I was serious about the 5 215RT's even from a best value standpoint. That's 5 pairs of 15" sub drivers distributed around the room. In a large space like yours it is doable and for movies and M/C music, it would sound incredible. cool.gif

I would love to sit in the middle of that...
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 08:43 AM 05-28-2014
Anyone know of a device that will route the LFE into the main channels using all RCA connectors?

Here is my planned setup

3 X 215TR's

2 X Seaton SubMersive HP's


I want to Y adapter the LFE out on my Denon 4311CI

one going to my Seatons

and one going into a LFE routing box to mix the LFE into the main L/C/R 215RT's.

I could them move the Seatons out into the room for more impact near the MLP.

I would like if such a device existed using RCA.
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 09:25 AM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post

Anyone know of a device that will route the LFE into the main channels using all RCA connectors?
If you you use an HTPC for playback, you can do the routing with JRiver Media Center. In your case, I would suggest using the Submersives for the LFE and rerouted bass from the surrounds and leave the front speakers fullrange. I can't think of much benefit of routing the LFE to the mains when you already have dual Submersives. Also, the phase shift of the ported will conflict with the sealed subs. This can still be an issue with using the mains fullrange without the LFE routed to them, but might not be as noticeable. I have full range mains and get more impact from running the mains fullrange and letting the subs (dual IB manifolds in my case) handle the LFE.

A miniDSP 10x10 should work for you to do the mixing if the software allows for mixing. You would need to route both the LFE and the left, center and right channels to it in order to mix the LFE with the main channels. I have the miniDSP 4 way crossover adv. software and it doesn't allow for any mixing of signals. You can only split a signal to other channels.
Diesel 48's Avatar Diesel 48 09:37 AM 05-28-2014
How does JRiver pass on the bass information to the front 3 speakers? Is it by passing the receiver at that point? I might need to check that out.
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 09:53 AM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel 48 View Post

How does JRiver pass on the bass information to the front 3 speakers? Is it by passing the receiver at that point? I might need to check that out.
JRiver decodes the audio and video and allows for advanced DSP to be used on the audio including routing, mixing, parametric EQ, delays, levels, crossovers, and bass management, Since these can add delay to the audio, JRiver then realigns the audio to the video and sends out via HDMI to the receiver with the audio as PCM. All the receiver has to do is play it and pass on the video to the projector/TV. Some projectors/TV's have latency on the video due to processing. If this is the case you can make an adjustment in JRiver so the audio/video is still in sync.

You can playback directly to amps without a receiver which is what I and many other do. In this case you need a multi-channel DAC to handle playback. You can check out dlbeck's The Savoy for 15 channels of playback (including 11 JTR speakers/subs) with JRiver handling processing and playback for Blu-ray, DVD, Netflix, DirecTV, DSD, CD, and high resolution audio.
Reefdvr27's Avatar Reefdvr27 10:57 AM 05-28-2014
Surgery postponed.


Here is a little eye candy for the bass heads

*

This appears to be the same MTX?


Goalline's Avatar Goalline 11:19 AM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

It's time for you and everyone out there to upgrade the S8 surrounds. biggrin.gif ...and make sure you have surround subwoofers.

IMAX soundtracks are remastered. It definitely sounds different from a conventional Dolby/DTS setup. IMAX setup only has 2 big-ass surrounds.

How many of you here have upgraded your S8 surrounds to 888/212/228 and notice a huge difference in surrounds?
Will 2x 212 as surrounds (5.1 setup) sound better than 4x S8 (7.1 setup)? If you're given a choice, which will you choose?

For multichannel audio, give me the 212 surrounds. Heck, give me 215's all around. smile.gif

I see that Rob shared in that sentiment.
desertdome's Avatar desertdome 12:27 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

One other thing overlooked by those that love music, is that a center speaker's drivers will affect the frequency response of the L/R when it is just sitting there. This is due to the sympathetic vibration of the unused drivers. This is why at the speaker/subwoofer GTG's we have to remove all other speakers and subs from the room. I believe it is also one of the reasons some never feel like they can get their great multi-channel rooms to sound as good for them with stereo.

I found this quote from Kal (reviewer at Stereophile and AVS member) that I thought was interesting and pertained to a comment I made yesterday. I didn't know this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson 
Unpowered speakers are a problem because their unshorted voicecoils will not resist the induced sympathetic vibration from the active speakers in the room and that will contribute their resonant response to the performance. Not good.

OTOH, if the unused center/surround/etc. speakers are connected to powered amps, even with the amp inputs muted, the low output impedance of the amps will shunt the voice coils and effectively damp the movement of the "silent" drivers.

All my amps/speakers powered up all the time, even when I am listening in stereo.

Kal

jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 12:58 PM 05-28-2014
Cool Geek, here is a driver for you smile.gif

http://www.parts-express.com/bc-21sw152-4-21-neodymium-subwoofer-4-ohm--294-689





JBrown showed me this guy. What are your thoughts compared to other 18 inch subs out there for a DIY sealed project like Carp's 8 subs.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um18-22-18-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-518
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 01:16 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Cool Geek, here is a driver for you smile.gif

http://www.parts-express.com/bc-21sw152-4-21-neodymium-subwoofer-4-ohm--294-689





JBrown showed me this guy. What are your thoughts compared to other 18 inch subs out there for a DIY sealed project like Carp's 8 subs.

http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um18-22-18-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-518

Those ultimax 18's are vaporware so far, and are also untested. That isn't to say they won't be a good option, but they just haven't been vetted yet is all smile.gif
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 01:33 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post

One other thing overlooked by those that love music, is that a center speaker's drivers will affect the frequency response of the L/R when it is just sitting there. This is due to the sympathetic vibration of the unused drivers. This is why at the speaker/subwoofer GTG's we have to remove all other speakers and subs from the room. I believe it is also one of the reasons some never feel like they can get their great multi-channel rooms to sound as good for them with stereo.

I found this quote from Kal (reviewer at Stereophile and AVS member) that I thought was interesting and pertained to a comment I made yesterday. I didn't know this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
Unpowered speakers are a problem because their unshorted voicecoils will not resist the induced sympathetic vibration from the active speakers in the room and that will contribute their resonant response to the performance. Not good.

OTOH, if the unused center/surround/etc. speakers are connected to powered amps, even with the amp inputs muted, the low output impedance of the amps will shunt the voice coils and effectively damp the movement of the "silent" drivers.

All my amps/speakers powered up all the time, even when I am listening in stereo.

Kal

That is interesting. Tom Danley once commented on the same phenomena when folks were testing subwoofers with all of the subs located in the same room.

BTW, thanks for giving me a heads up on my system setup. Unfortunately, I deleted your setup the day after you left. I do appreciate all the effort you put in even if the actual results were less than stellar. There is a steep learning curve to JRiver but if you keep at it, I'm confident you will get there eventually. smile.gif
dlbeck's Avatar dlbeck 04:51 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post

I agree. That's why only if someone have the proper space for it... Else something like the S8 can't be beat....
+1
vince32837's Avatar vince32837 08:13 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

I was serious about the 5 215RT's even from a best value standpoint. That's 5 pairs of 15" sub drivers distributed around the room. In a large space like yours it is doable and for movies and M/C music, it would sound incredible. cool.gif


Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince
dlbeck's Avatar dlbeck 08:17 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

You won't have any issue seeing the weave at 16' on any Seymour screen and no problem (IMO) for 152" diagonal with a 600ES.
vince32837's Avatar vince32837 08:18 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

+1

Dlbeck-

I see your Savoy build thread, can you comment on Seymour fabric see my post above

Impressive thread, I will have dive in to read when I get a chance

thanks V
vince32837's Avatar vince32837 08:19 PM 05-28-2014
Thanks...for the quick reply

what about sound attenuation, JTR blast right through ref+ volume?

V
dlbeck's Avatar dlbeck 08:20 PM 05-28-2014
I must have been typing at the same time you were. I would go with the XD but feel free to call Chris or send him a PM.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 08:21 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Even if the Sony is a light cannon I would not use the EN4K screen material with that large of a screen, over time your bulb will dim and the EN4K material is just too dim IMO.

I only have a 120" screen and with my RS45 in high lamp mode I still thought it was too dim.
dlbeck's Avatar dlbeck 08:23 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Thanks...for the quick reply

what about sound attenuation, JTR blast right through ref+ volume?

V

For 99% of the people the comb filtering that occurs in the upper frequencies is a non-issue. Of course you will have people disagree with that. Just my 2 cents.
vince32837's Avatar vince32837 08:39 PM 05-28-2014
Thanks guys for the "real deal" on the Seymour line...

V
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 09:18 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

As dlbeck said, Seymour states there is approx 1.4db of attenuation above 2khz with the XD weave fabric. It has the least audio impact of any AT screen material.

I sit 12' from a 138" diag 16:9 XD screen and cannot see the weave. From the same distance, the Stewart Microperf was easily visible and distracting plus it has relatively poor acoustic performance.

I would think the very bright 600es would make a fantastic 2D picture on a 2.35 152" XD screen in a light controlled room. smile.gif
coolgeek's Avatar coolgeek 09:20 PM 05-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post

Even if the Sony is a light cannon I would not use the EN4K screen material with that large of a screen, over time your bulb will dim and the EN4K material is just too dim IMO.

I only have a 120" screen and with my RS45 in high lamp mode I still thought it was too dim.

I agree. The EN4K is too dim. The Centerstage XD is very bright in comparison (and I believe that's a 0.9 gain).

When I experimented with the Sony 4K 500ES projector, the XD performed better than the EN4K.. I don't know why but when using a 4K projector, you can actually stand a lot closer to the XD material and not see the weave as compared to using 2K projectors.
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 12:10 AM 05-29-2014
So I am thinking about an Oppo 103D. Who of you have experience with the Darbee unit? Also it seems there are a couple different Darbee models and Oppo's site doesn't specify which one. I assume the latest or it may not matter. Anyway I have been trying to talk myself out of a $600 Blu Ray player (drop in the bucket around here lol) but after watching this youtube vid (be sure to set to 1080p) I am hooked again. Besides you get a world class Blu Ray player as well lol! Anyway it's this Oppo or a &100 Blu Ray player...Then I can pick up a new Glock 17 or the nicer BBQ in time for summer...hmmm... smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhE2CvkRYM

Also I know people do things with Oppo players that other Samsung type Blu Ray players don't do. I will just hook it into my Denon 4520 and load the movies into the tray smile.gif

Here is a HQ pic comparison
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/78188_4a.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/31359_4b.png
coolgeek's Avatar coolgeek 02:11 AM 05-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Don't be surprise when you find yourself sitting closer than 10 feet from a 152 inch screen. 4K is a whole different animal. You can be much closer and be much more immerssive.

I watched Gravity in 3D on an 8 feet wide screen, 6 feet away. Felt like looking thru a window into space. (That was a different screen though, a non-at screen).

BTW: I can't confirm this yet, but it was something I sort of noticed without actual experiment with different scenes, etc. When I put up a sample of the XD material with the 500ES, suddenly i can't see the weave at all even at much closer than 10 feet.. like even at 6 or 7 feet away. Again, I can't confirm this... but with a 2K projector somehow i notice the weave more... not sure why this is...

Also, both my friend and I noticed the image softer and not as sharp on the EN4K screen as opposed to the XD screen. It was instantly noticeable. This is strange that we both prefer a screen not designed for 4K vs one that is specially designed for it.
vince32837's Avatar vince32837 05:58 AM 05-29-2014
I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince
raynist's Avatar raynist 08:47 AM 05-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

So I am thinking about an Oppo 103D. Who of you have experience with the Darbee unit? Also it seems there are a couple different Darbee models and Oppo's site doesn't specify which one. I assume the latest or it may not matter. Anyway I have been trying to talk myself out of a $600 Blu Ray player (drop in the bucket around here lol) but after watching this youtube vid (be sure to set to 1080p) I am hooked again. Besides you get a world class Blu Ray player as well lol! Anyway it's this Oppo or a &100 Blu Ray player...Then I can pick up a new Glock 17 or the nicer BBQ in time for summer...hmmm... smile.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJhE2CvkRYM

Also I know people do things with Oppo players that other Samsung type Blu Ray players don't do. I will just hook it into my Denon 4520 and load the movies into the tray smile.gif

Here is a HQ pic comparison
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/78188_4a.png
http://www.pictureshack.us/images/31359_4b.png

I had the darbee stand alone unit and to me it just looked like added noise and artifacts to the picture. Sent it right back. I believe carp here had the same experience.
beastaudio's Avatar beastaudio 08:55 AM 05-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

Rob-

I will call Jeff, run some configuration ideas by him. Never spoke to him before.

The Seymour line of AT screens does it lose much acoustic signal passing through the fabric? 212's or 215's can blast through without issue?

I started digging into Seymour AT, XD and the EN4K materials, some users say they can see the weave on the XD but its brighter. The EN4K gain measured around 0.8...dimmer image....but tighter fabric tougher to see pattern...

I will be at 16 ft first row.

Sony light cannon [600es] can overcome this obstacles in a bat cave at 152" diagonal?

Vince

Here is the measurement of the XD vs stewart microperf vs no screen at all. You can clearly see the XD splits the difference and does significantly better than the stewart on the top end.




Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince

The falcon has an even tighter weave than the XD and certainly should be considered. Rich and I have been emailing lately about the new 16:9 masking panels he is working on to make a cinema scope screen so that will be another cool option coming up as well. I might be the guinea pig for the panels here very shortly as a matter of fact smile.gif
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 09:22 AM 05-29-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post

I appreciate all the screen feedback, what about Falcon vs Seymour...JBrown15 went this route...or both as good from 14-16 FT?

Thanks Vince

The main advantage of the Falcon scree material is that it has a much less noticeable weave in the material, with the XD I could easily see the weave from 9-10ft away but with the Falcon screen material you had to be 5-6ft away before you could see it. The Falcon screen was also $300 less in price, which is a win win in my books. smile.gif

But with that being said, your first row is more then far enough away that the screen weave of the XD material wouldn't be an issue.

Like Beast mentioned both brands will have masking panels, and again the Falcon's will be less money.

I've been extremely happy with my Falcon screen, but really both are great products smile.gif
Landmonster's Avatar Landmonster 10:42 AM 05-29-2014
Hi guys.....

Question: What's a better bang for the buck in JTR gear... speakers, or subs?


For a given dollar limit, would you be better off with...
  1. "X" brand speakers, and JTR subs?
  2. JTR speakers, and "X" brand subs?
  3. JTR speakers with JTR subs!?

Some of you may recall that I sold my Klipsch RF-7ii package, and I've been meaning to replace it with nicer speakers. I need a sub too! I was considering going with JTR for either the speakers, the subs, or both. I just cannot afford a full JTR speaker and sub setup all at once though.


Furthermore... I've been keenly interested in hearing about the 210RT speaker. Has anyone heard or seen this one yet?
Tags: 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
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