Official JTR speaker thread - Page 685 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20521 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
So any news on the mythical matching centers for the 210RT/215RT? I'm seriously looking into putting in a 210RT order for a 3.0 setup and the lack of appropriate center channel layout is mildly frustrating. You think he'll do a custom 210RT with the horn in the center and some kind of symmetrical port layout on the ends?
I don't know about the 210RT but the 215RT will have the 215RM which is a smaller, sealed version of the 215 with the same horn and 15" midbasses. I don't have exact measurements handy but I'm pretty sure they are 48"x17"x18"deep. I was really considering swapping my 212HTs for the 215RMs until I heard the RMs will only go down to about 60Hz.
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post #20522 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 12:05 PM
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Rob-

dont mind fiddling some, just not every movie move that filter...hardware processing might still be best bet...I will see J River in action soon...

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post #20523 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Maybe after hearing the 3 x 215, I decide to go that route...I can see where Im at bass-wise...can always add (DIY SI 24" or S2 ) x 2
you bring up a good point, could make the baffle wall little deeper to accomodate monster sub...
I'd definitely recommend going to listen to the JTRs. Personally, I haven't fallen in love with my 212HTs like everyone else has (I have the sealed 212HT-LPs, which might be part of the problem) but I still need to do some EQ work and treatments on my room before I can give the final verdict.. After hearing the Danley SH50s, with their huge soundstage, the 212s aren't as impressive to me. And the midbass on the 212HT-LPs isn't as strong as I'd like it to be. So frankly, for me personally, I would have a hard time recommending any of the JTR speakers outside of the 215RT, which I haven't even heard but am going off of other knowledgeable people that I trust their opinion having heard similar equipment. I haven't heard the 228s so can't comment on those and the Single 8s are great for surrounds (I have4) but I would not select them as mains (applies to Triple8/12 primarily). I'd recommend you also look at the Seaton Catalysts and Danley SM60f as well.
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post #20524 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 12:45 PM
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I would recommend the t8's for surrounds and the t12's for mains personally.
Not much talk about them since the 212's and now the 215's which I'm sure
I would like for myself. However the entire JTR line is a really strong candidate .
More talk of the forgotten t12's and t8's would be nice,maybe a new thread.


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post #20525 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
So any news on the mythical matching centers for the 210RT/215RT? I'm seriously looking into putting in a 210RT order for a 3.0 setup and the lack of appropriate center channel layout is mildly frustrating. You think he'll do a custom 210RT with the horn in the center and some kind of symmetrical port layout on the ends?
Jeff does custom work. Build you anything you want. Could just go with a custom sealed 10". Somebody around here got one recently, maybe n8?. If you want a ported could just look at the 228HT. That is what I am using.
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post #20526 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I'd definitely recommend going to listen to the JTRs. Personally, I haven't fallen in love with my 212HTs like everyone else has (I have the sealed 212HT-LPs, which might be part of the problem) but I still need to do some EQ work and treatments on my room before I can give the final verdict.. After hearing the Danley SH50s, with their huge soundstage, the 212s aren't as impressive to me. And the midbass on the 212HT-LPs isn't as strong as I'd like it to be. So frankly, for me personally, I would have a hard time recommending any of the JTR speakers outside of the 215RT, which I haven't even heard but am going off of other knowledgeable people that I trust their opinion having heard similar equipment. I haven't heard the 228s so can't comment on those and the Single 8s are great for surrounds (I have4) but I would not select them as mains (applies to Triple8/12 primarily). I'd recommend you also look at the Seaton Catalysts and Danley SM60f as well.
Dgage- I appreciate your perspective..10 years ago I dove in swan diva 6.1 speakers blind..that $2k purchase was a smart one. Brazilian rosewood finish plus they sound quite good. I expect the next 7.1 speaker system in a dedicated space to go to the next level, especially at JTR 215/Cat 12c/Danley prices...
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post #20527 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Jeff does custom work. Build you anything you want. Could just go with a custom sealed 10". Somebody around here got one recently, maybe n8?. If you want a ported could just look at the 228HT. That is what I am using.


Yes Nate has a custom low profile center channel that uses the same CD and waveguide as the 212HT's and has 10" drivers.
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post #20528 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
OPTION E: 215RTs with 2 SI HS24 DIY subs. I would pick the 215s over the 212s for two reasons; wider soundstage due to larger horn and much stronger midbass. And I agree with the HT team that more subs around the room is better. I'd recommend getting a pair of SI HS24 DIY subs as they were awesome/phenomenal/world-class at Beasts GTG powered by a Peavey IPR7500 pro amp. UXL-18 or the upcoming Dayton 18 would be good options. If you don't want to go DIY, then I'd look to the future and see how many you'd add in the future. If only a few, get a pair of OS's but I'm a fan of sealed as they're easier to integrate so I'd recommend the S2s but they wouldn't have the output above 20Hz that the OS's would have until you get a few.

And I'm sorry to school you but you're in the JTR thread now. We don't let friends mention 12" subwoofers.
If he goes with the OS and 212HT option he will have more midbass everywhere over the 215. You have to remember the 212 is 101dB sensitive and above 80HZ is going to have more output compared to the 215 if they are powered equally. The 215 is 95dB sensitive b/c it is tuned to go lower and you inevitably have to give up some sensitivity. I am not saying that is bad but make no mistake the 212HT paired with the OS is still the output monster combo.

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post #20529 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
If he goes with the OS and 212HT option he will have more midbass everywhere over the 215. You have to remember the 212 is 101dB sensitive and above 80HZ is going to have more output compared to the 215 if they are powered equally. The 215 is 95dB sensitive b/c it is tuned to go lower and you inevitably have to give up some sensitivity. I am not saying that is bad but make no mistake the 212HT paired with the OS is still the output monster combo.
I don't agree with your assertion of 212 and OS combo having stronger output. While definitely a monster, the OS shouldn't be played up to 150-200Hz to get the strong high midbass that the 212 lacks (according to some opinions). I know a pair of 12" speakers should give strong midbass but I'm not impressed with mine and I know Coach and N8DOGG both upgraded to the 215s, partially due to the lack of midbass in the 212s. Simply my opinion.

And I can't fit the 215RTs so I won't be upgrading to them. I would have considered the 215RM but hearing it is only designed to play down to 60Hz makes me wonder if it would be much of a midbass improvement. However, I do look forward to comparing Coach's 215RM center to my 212 to see if there is (enough of) a difference in soundstage width and midbass output.

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post #20530 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I don't know about the 210RT but the 215RT will have the 215RM which is a smaller, sealed version of the 215 with the same horn and 15" midbasses. I don't have exact measurements handy but I'm pretty sure they are 48"x17"x18"deep. I was really considering swapping my 212HTs for the 215RMs until I heard the RMs will only go down to about 60Hz.
That is correct on the dimensions for the 215RM. I have one coming in a week or two to go with my 215RT'S.
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post #20531 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:25 PM
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I don't agree with your assertion of 212 and OS combo having stronger output. While definitely a monster, the OS shouldn't be played up to 150-200Hz to get the strong high midbass that the 212 lacks (according to some opinions). I know a pair of 12" speakers should give strong midbass but I'm not impressed with mine and I know Coach and N8DOGG both upgraded to the 215s, partially due to the lack of midbass in the 212s. Simply my opinion.
I am not saying play the OS up to 150-200. What I am saying is up to 80HZ the OS has more output than two 215's and above 80hz the 212HT has more output than the 215RT. So together they have it covered. You can test it yourself but I have seen the testing and the 215 is almost flat at 95dB sensitive down to 20 and the 212HT is 101 down to about 60 but let's say 80 for sure and the OS is 97dB sens and can handle 4000 watts. They are what they are.

Placement means a lot in a room and if the taller design of the 215 puts the woofers closer to the ceiling and floor the response can change (some freq increased some decreased and some unchanged)

Changing out the 212HT for the 215RT for more midbass can be a good reason if you don't have the below 80hz covered by something else already more powerful or you simply want to run two channel.

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post #20532 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:31 PM
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228HT make EXCELLENT surrounds if you only have need of a 60* spread pattern from your speaker mounting location to your listening position. If you have need for a wider spread because of multiple rows then a single 8 or other coaxial drive speaker sprays a wider path.

If you haven't heard the 228HT as surrounds, as I and others have, at one of the dlbeck G2Gs - then I don't know how you can say they don't make good surrounds. They are ridiculously capable of volume - like the 212HT and the gattling gun scene from book of eli at +17 with an all JTR system (212HT front, 228HT rears) was the loudest cleanest, most capable theater system I've ever heard.

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post #20533 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:34 PM
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I am not saying play the OS up to 150-200. What I am saying is up to 80HZ the OS has more output than two 215's and above 80hz the 212HT has more output than the 215RT. So together they have it covered. You can test it yourself but I have seen the testing and the 215 is almost flat at 95dB sensitive down to 20 and the 212HT is 101 down to about 60 but let's say 80 for sure and the OS is 97dB sens and can handle 4000 watts. They are what they are.

Placement means a lot in a room and if the taller design of the 215 puts the woofers closer to the ceiling and floor the response can change (some freq increased some decreased and some unchanged)

Changing out the 212HT for the 215RT for more midbass can be a good reason if you don't have the below 80hz covered by something else already more powerful or you simply want to run two channel.
I don't buy or understand your sensitivity argument. We aren't playing these speakers anywhere near their limits where sensitivity would matter, at least I'm not. Whether a speaker is 89, 95, or 101 db sensitive has more to do with how many watts are required to get to a certain volume and have little to do with the output a speaker has from 80-200Hz.

Reread N8DOGGs comments about the 215 and midbass. He has a hell of a lot more subwooferage than anybody else and even had MBMs. With the 212s he needed the MBMs and now with the 215RTs, he mentioned not needing the MBMs anymore.
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post #20534 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:34 PM
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Check out the 80-200hz midbass in my room with the 212HT, no subs running at all and a -7dB 1/3band octave filter.

OK I can't import a pic. sorry not used to the new format yet

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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post #20535 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I don't buy or understand your sensitivity argument. We aren't playing these speakers anywhere near their limits where sensitivity would matter, at least I'm not. Whether a speaker is 89, 95, or 101 db sensitive has more to do with how many watts are required to get to a certain volume and have little to do with the output a speaker has from 80-200Hz.

Reread N8DOGGs comments about the 215 and midbass. He has a hell of a lot more subwooferage than anybody else and even had MBMs. With the 212s he needed the MBMs and now with the 215RTs, he mentioned not needing the MBMs anymore.
well if the speakers are designed flat across the FR then sensitivity has a lot to do with the output for the entire FR including the 80-200hz band. I have read comments and it doesn't change the response. I will say I also remember him saying that his HT's had more output in what he called the midabass range than his 212LP's which is understandable inn many real world placement situations where boundaries exist fairly close.

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post #20536 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:52 PM
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I guess my problem is I should have never listened to Beast's Danleys. Wider soundstage and stronger midbass...in a less sensitive speaker (maybe 95db). If Danley makes a more articulate HT specific version as they have discussed, my 212s will likely be in the classifieds...if the forum is fixed by then.
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post #20537 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
BTW - add my vote to the I don't like the changes crowd. Too many forum changes around here IMO. Places like Home Theater Shack and Audioholics and hardforum, and corvetteforum, and clubgp - other places I hang out NEVER change their forum themes or vendors. Why does AVSforum constantly bounce around?
Apparently the previous software, Huddler, is no longer supported.
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post #20538 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Check out the 80-200hz midbass in my room with the 212HT, no subs running at all and a -7dB 1/3band octave filter.

OK I can't import a pic. sorry not used to the new format yet
You just need to go to advanced and then on the left is the upload spot

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post #20539 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:07 PM
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I wonder if Jeff would redesign the 212 Noesis. Like a gen 2 or something. And put different woofers in them and of course the crossover work. Just seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do and all this mid bass crisis could be solved with 12 inch woofers just different ones. Right? I mean get away from the very low xmax of the eminence and something else? Or am I missing something?

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post #20540 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I guess my problem is I should have never listened to Beast's Danleys. Wider soundstage and stronger midbass...in a less sensitive speaker (maybe 95db). If Danley makes a more articulate HT specific version as they have discussed, my 212s will likely be in the classifieds...if the forum is fixed by then.
I would love to hear those too. From what I understand the directivity goes much lower with the design which could be a game changer in many rooms. Sounds like a lot of people agree they were awesome and I heard they may make a more HT designed speaker. Have you heard that? Were you going to do a DIY type thing for that too?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #20541 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:16 PM
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I wonder if Jeff would redesign the 212 Noesis. Like a gen 2 or something. And put different woofers in them and of course the crossover work. Just seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do and all this mid bass crisis could be solved with 12 inch woofers just different ones. Right? I mean get away from the very low xmax of the eminence and something else? Or am I missing something?
Comments I've heard second hand; when asked about how to get more midbass out of the 212s is that Jeff thinks they have plenty of midbass. It would seem there are some that disagree with Jeff's assertion.
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post #20542 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:19 PM
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thx, here is the FR. The 212 does not have a midbass crisis or at least not the part of the midbass it was designed to cover. It is about sensitivity. If you want the speaker to go lower and cover all the midbass then just get the 215 or the 210. Neither of these will match the output of the OS 212 combo though. Now I am curious about the 215RM with F3 of 60hz. From 60 up I assume it will beat the 212.
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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post #20543 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:19 PM
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I would love to hear those too. From what I understand the directivity goes much lower with the design which could be a game changer in many rooms. Sounds like a lot of people agree they were awesome and I heard they may make a more HT designed speaker. Have you heard that? Were you going to do a DIY type thing for that too?
I was thinking of a DIY Danley Noesis until I figured out how truly complex the Danley design is. I knew the crossover would be difficult. But when I learned about the mids and midbasses firing into a bandpass instead of firing directly into the horn, I figured I was over my head even though it would be awesome to take on as I'm sure I'd learn a ton. But when I went over the financial numbers, it would be pretty expensive to try and replicate that design with the Noesis 212/215 compression driver with no guarantee of getting a nice sounding result.
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post #20544 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:21 PM
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I am continued to be thoroughly impressed by the Oppo Blu Ray player! The Darbee video processing is amazing! I think the videophile just clicked in me

I know some of you posted your crazy gaming setups the other day. I don't have a crazy gaming rig. Just the newest gen Mac Mini upgraded to 16gb ram and my PS3. But I just got this Ergatron arm and run it on another zone from my Denon 4520ci. Pretty cool and functional setup really. I like that I can have any of my different inputs (Mac mini, PS3, Oppo BDP, Apple TV or whatever else I put in) on two different displays at the same time. Or mirror the displays. And the Lazy Boy makes for a nice bonus! Anyway this is what I had envisioned with a projector setup. That way I don't need to always turn on my PJ and save bulb life.
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For sale: 2x Seaton Submersive 2400 HP Models. Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB. PM for any interests :)
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
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post #20545 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
thx, here is the FR. The 212 does not have a midbass crisis or at least not the part of the midbass it was designed to cover. It is about sensitivity. If you want the speaker to go lower and cover all the midbass then just get the 215 or the 210. Neither of these will match the output of the OS 212 combo though. Now I am curious about the 215RM with F3 of 60hz. From 60 up I assume it will beat the 212.
That's with no EQ? Damn you're getting some hellacious room boundary reinforcement. I don't get anywhere near that with my 212HT-LPs, more like a flat line.
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post #20546 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:23 PM
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I would guess if you did get it right you would either have a great new business with some awesome IP or an IP infringement lawsuit if not careful. Haha. I would think that would be a huge undertaking but hey you never know maybe you're on to something or it will sppark another even better idea!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #20547 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:24 PM
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Comments I've heard second hand; when asked about how to get more midbass out of the 212s is that Jeff thinks they have plenty of midbass. It would seem there are some that disagree with Jeff's assertion.
Well I am sure he would build a different if asked. Just say, "Jeff build me a 212 with bigger xmax woofers and even more mid bass."

For sale: 2x Seaton Submersive 2400 HP Models. Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB. PM for any interests :)
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
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post #20548 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:26 PM
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That's with no EQ? Damn you're getting some hellacious room boundary reinforcement. I don't get anywhere near that with my 212HT-LPs, more like a flat line.
flat line is good, although in midbass I too like it bumped up. In my case because of placement I am getting a huge bump in that region, notice I am also getting a suckout in the 300hz range which is driving me nuts.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #20549 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:26 PM
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oh and can someone kindly remind me where is the best place to start a thread on my setup? Do you all put yours in the same place or is there a split?

For sale: 2x Seaton Submersive 2400 HP Models. Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB. PM for any interests :)
DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1531107/di...axial-speakers
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post #20550 of 31063 Old 06-12-2014, 08:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I am continued to be thoroughly impressed by the Oppo Blu Ray player! The Darbee video processing is amazing! I think the videophile just clicked in me

I know some of you posted your crazy gaming setups the other day. I don't have a crazy gaming rig. Just the newest gen Mac Mini upgraded to 16gb ram and my PS3. But I just got this Ergatron arm and run it on another zone from my Denon 4520ci. Pretty cool and functional setup really. I like that I can have any of my different inputs (Mac mini, PS3, Oppo BDP, Apple TV or whatever else I put in) on two different displays at the same time. Or mirror the displays. And the Lazy Boy makes for a nice bonus! Anyway this is what I had envisioned with a projector setup. That way I don't need to always turn on my PJ and save bulb life.
that is cool looking and I love the save the projector aspect too. Nice set up.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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