Official JTR speaker thread - Page 685 - AVS Forum
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post #20521 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:29 AM
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no recent post viewing
Works fine for me. I just saw your post.

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post #20522 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post

This is garbage enough for me to stop posting. I can't stand any of this. Classifieds are trash, no pricing area on the posts, no general view for all the sub categories, etc. Picture uploading, no recent post viewing, absolutely awful. I didn't even know this was coming or I would have bid everyone adieu before the change, now it's too hard to even figure out how to do it!

EDIT: Also, I apparently am no longer a club member all of a sudden? I wore that badge with pride, screw it now.
I can only imagine that they will work on it. I am also a little ticked about the AVS club badge missing. I said something in the gripe forum. I figured out how to get my page back to the dark tone vs the blue, so I that is one thing good for now.

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post #20523 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:39 AM
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Jeesh, it's only been a day and all this angst about a few feature changes and some conversion issues. Talk about first world problems ...

BTW, hate the new emoticons


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post #20524 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:40 AM
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Works fine for me. I just saw your post.

You have to click "User CP" instead of "Subscriptions" to see new posts.
I meant, previously, in your subscribed section, you could go to "first unread post" and that is basically how I navigated and made sure I didn't miss anything with all of my regular threads.

I clicked on the user CP link and couldn't even find the JTR thread, I guess since every single subscribed thread I have is now "unread"

Where is this so-called "gripe" thread. I need to give someone an earful....

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post #20525 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I meant, previously, in your subscribed section, you could go to "first unread post" and that is basically how I navigated and made sure I didn't miss anything with all of my regular threads.

I clicked on the user CP link and couldn't even find the JTR thread, I guess since every single subscribed thread I have is now "unread"

Where is this so-called "gripe" thread. I need to give someone an earful....
Home page. I don't think it was meant to be, but became a gripe page.

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post #20526 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Rhed- room is 31 ft deep x 20 ft wide

dgage- I have read those SI 24" threads, scary bass for sure! But its hard to hide 4 ft Marty sub...unless I give up on the clean room look?

CoolGeek- The media team has only dealt with Traditional brands, "you sure you dont want our Paradugm or Hsu sub?...I said no thank you", I want an animal sub x 2 or x 4...S1/S2 I think I can keep clean look, OS cannot be beat as everybody says for raw power, but cannot be buried in a column... I guess behind a deep false wall? But they convinced me "You better go listen to these JTR speakers, before we design whole room around them"..I said "OK will do"

RMK- I am willing to fiddle with Rane type hardware or Jriver S/W but I want once its dialed in, 2-3 profiles to choose, I'm, done...no ongoing tweaking soap opera?

Thanks for the feedback....

Vince
You're looking at 3 215s, which tells me you are doing an AT screen, which tells me you could fit some subs in between the 215s, including the monsters that are the SI HS24s.

But don't let some of what you hear about the SI HS24s scare you. They are capable of monstrous levels of bass but they are also able to loaf along and provide crystal clear bass for music (we had them crossed at 100Hz, which is higher than normal). I heard them pounding and loafing and it truly is an impressive sub. I have 3 LMS 5400s, which are arguably one of the best, lowest distortion subs on the planet. I wouldn't hesitate to replace my 3 LMS 5400s with a pair of HS24s if I could fit them in my much smaller living room.

As far as EQing, you might also want to consider a MiniDSP NanoAVR, which is pretty nice and easy to use.
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post #20527 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Oh, you are in the wrong hobby if you are fiddle averse ...

I have tweaked my setup a couple of times since the 215 GTG and the JRiver is much more difficult to setup. DD got the audio right but we didn't play many/any movie clips and it is skipping frames. I have tried to tweak it and managed to make it worse. HTPC's are black holes unless you have lots of time and or really dig into it.

The audio through the Rane is just right so I'm really happy there but that device has a shelf life.


Oh, and I agree about the S8's for surrounds.
I told you to get a real video card. You can go to Tools > Options > Video > General Video Settings and set it back to Red October Standard. I think you are using Red October HQ. This mode uses the pixel shaders of the video card, bypasses the video card's algorithms, performs 16 bit processing for chroma upscaling and resolution scaling, and does the highest quality YCbCr -> RGB conversion for output from an HTPC to the projector. Depending on the settings you can tax even the fastest video card available. If you want to fiddle, you can see the madVR guide at JRiver to find settings that work with your onboard video.
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post #20528 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
I wanted to get the JTR community opinion on the following speaker configurations would be best..(For 80% HT/20% music)...

Option A: 3 x 212, 4 x 228, 2 x OS

Option B: 3 x 212, 4 x 228, 2 x S2

option C: 3 x 212, 4 x 228, 4 x Hsu Subs($1k level)

option D: 3 x 215, 4 x 228, 2 x S2 (pre-wire for future when budget allows)

I spoke with Jeff he told me I would be wasting my $ with the 215's upfront, go with option A (surprise to hear the owner steer me away from his top of the line)...problem with option A is if the theater is to have a clean look with speakers behind the false wall and in columns, you cant hide 2 orbital shifters

My builder's HT team like option C, they claim nothing beats the smoothness of bass of 4 wall midpoint subs (12" $1K Hsu or SVS)

My preference is Option B or D...the raw output of dual S2 front & Back will surpass that perfect little (4) sub symmetry?

or option D- You listen to 215's upfront (which I will hear on 6/28 thanks to DLBeck-David) they turn you into a 50/50 music/HT user, and output enough bass, you can live without the S2 (but pre-wire side walls just in case) Can an S2 be fit in a large column? or look stupid so big? Possible difficulty blending the LFE of the 215's with added S2's if required..need a complex JR river or Rane setup config file?

Note- I show speakers next to each other for illustration only, but in reality the S2 up-front could be under center channel or side wall subs under surrounds.etc. 4 small subs can tuck in a column easy! etc...

feedback appreciated

Thanks Vince
Vince...
You don't need 228s as surrounds bud. S8s will do the job nicely.

As for the rest... 212x3 lcr, subs: s2s or captivator 2400s (I have the cap and love it), s8s all around.

Last edited by L0nestar; 06-19-2014 at 10:00 PM. Reason: Objection your honor.
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post #20529 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 08:00 AM
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It might have been me, but my "Subscriptions" don't show up easily. Plus, I can't tell how many new posts each thread has and it didn't take me to the most recent new post.....

Guess it will take some getting used to.
At the top right (below the 'Menu Bar'), there's a link called 'User CP'

Click on that.. you should see your subscribed threads that have new posts. Then click on the icon '>', it's very tiny.. it'll take you to the first unread post...


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post #20530 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I told you to get a real video card. You can go to Tools > Options > Video > General Video Settings and set it back to Red October Standard. I think you are using Red October HQ. This mode uses the pixel shaders of the video card, bypasses the video card's algorithms, performs 16 bit processing for chroma upscaling and resolution scaling, and does the highest quality YCbCr -> RGB conversion for output from an HTPC to the projector. Depending on the settings you can tax even the fastest video card available. If you want to fiddle, you can see the madVR guide at JRiver to find settings that work with your onboard video.
Thanks DD, I'll check out the guide and maybe put a new video card on my list ...


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post #20531 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
You're looking at 3 215s, which tells me you are doing an AT screen, which tells me you could fit some subs in between the 215s, including the monsters that are the SI HS24s.

But don't let some of what you hear about the SI HS24s scare you. They are capable of monstrous levels of bass but they are also able to loaf along and provide crystal clear bass for music (we had them crossed at 100Hz, which is higher than normal). I heard them pounding and loafing and it truly is an impressive sub. I have 3 LMS 5400s, which are arguably one of the best, lowest distortion subs on the planet. I wouldn't hesitate to replace my 3 LMS 5400s with a pair of HS24s if I could fit them in my much smaller living room.

As far as EQing, you might also want to consider a MiniDSP NanoAVR, which is pretty nice and easy to use.
Maybe after hearing the 3 x 215, I decide to go that route...I can see where Im at bass-wise...can always add (DIY SI 24" or S2 ) x 2
you bring up a good point, could make the baffle wall little deeper to accomodate monster sub...
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post #20532 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by L0nestar View Post
Vince...
You don't need 228s as surrounds bud. S8s will do the job nicely.

As for the rest... 212x3 lcr, subs: s2s or captivator 2400s (I have the cap and love it), s8s all around.

228s won't make good surrounds. Too direct.
Jeff did say his 228's would sound better and the sweet spot, but you are right the whole room sound field would drop off. or the 3 x 215's will drive the show! no matter what the surrounds?
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post #20533 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 11:38 AM
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Unless they fixed something, I don't see any problems uploading pics? Seems pretty simple to me.
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post #20534 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 11:46 AM
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So any news on the mythical matching centers for the 210RT/215RT? I'm seriously looking into putting in a 210RT order for a 3.0 setup and the lack of appropriate center channel layout is mildly frustrating. You think he'll do a custom 210RT with the horn in the center and some kind of symmetrical port layout on the ends?
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post #20535 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
So any news on the mythical matching centers for the 210RT/215RT? I'm seriously looking into putting in a 210RT order for a 3.0 setup and the lack of appropriate center channel layout is mildly frustrating. You think he'll do a custom 210RT with the horn in the center and some kind of symmetrical port layout on the ends?
I don't know about the 210RT but the 215RT will have the 215RM which is a smaller, sealed version of the 215 with the same horn and 15" midbasses. I don't have exact measurements handy but I'm pretty sure they are 48"x17"x18"deep. I was really considering swapping my 212HTs for the 215RMs until I heard the RMs will only go down to about 60Hz.
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post #20536 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 12:05 PM
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Rob-

dont mind fiddling some, just not every movie move that filter...hardware processing might still be best bet...I will see J River in action soon...

thanks V
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post #20537 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Maybe after hearing the 3 x 215, I decide to go that route...I can see where Im at bass-wise...can always add (DIY SI 24" or S2 ) x 2
you bring up a good point, could make the baffle wall little deeper to accomodate monster sub...
I'd definitely recommend going to listen to the JTRs. Personally, I haven't fallen in love with my 212HTs like everyone else has (I have the sealed 212HT-LPs, which might be part of the problem) but I still need to do some EQ work and treatments on my room before I can give the final verdict.. After hearing the Danley SH50s, with their huge soundstage, the 212s aren't as impressive to me. And the midbass on the 212HT-LPs isn't as strong as I'd like it to be. So frankly, for me personally, I would have a hard time recommending any of the JTR speakers outside of the 215RT, which I haven't even heard but am going off of other knowledgeable people that I trust their opinion having heard similar equipment. I haven't heard the 228s so can't comment on those and the Single 8s are great for surrounds (I have4) but I would not select them as mains (applies to Triple8/12 primarily). I'd recommend you also look at the Seaton Catalysts and Danley SM60f as well.
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post #20538 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 12:45 PM
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I would recommend the t8's for surrounds and the t12's for mains personally.
Not much talk about them since the 212's and now the 215's which I'm sure
I would like for myself. However the entire JTR line is a really strong candidate .
More talk of the forgotten t12's and t8's would be nice,maybe a new thread.


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post #20539 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by energizerfellow View Post
So any news on the mythical matching centers for the 210RT/215RT? I'm seriously looking into putting in a 210RT order for a 3.0 setup and the lack of appropriate center channel layout is mildly frustrating. You think he'll do a custom 210RT with the horn in the center and some kind of symmetrical port layout on the ends?
Jeff does custom work. Build you anything you want. Could just go with a custom sealed 10". Somebody around here got one recently, maybe n8?. If you want a ported could just look at the 228HT. That is what I am using.

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post #20540 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I'd definitely recommend going to listen to the JTRs. Personally, I haven't fallen in love with my 212HTs like everyone else has (I have the sealed 212HT-LPs, which might be part of the problem) but I still need to do some EQ work and treatments on my room before I can give the final verdict.. After hearing the Danley SH50s, with their huge soundstage, the 212s aren't as impressive to me. And the midbass on the 212HT-LPs isn't as strong as I'd like it to be. So frankly, for me personally, I would have a hard time recommending any of the JTR speakers outside of the 215RT, which I haven't even heard but am going off of other knowledgeable people that I trust their opinion having heard similar equipment. I haven't heard the 228s so can't comment on those and the Single 8s are great for surrounds (I have4) but I would not select them as mains (applies to Triple8/12 primarily). I'd recommend you also look at the Seaton Catalysts and Danley SM60f as well.
Dgage- I appreciate your perspective..10 years ago I dove in swan diva 6.1 speakers blind..that $2k purchase was a smart one. Brazilian rosewood finish plus they sound quite good. I expect the next 7.1 speaker system in a dedicated space to go to the next level, especially at JTR 215/Cat 12c/Danley prices...
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post #20541 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 05:39 PM
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Jeff does custom work. Build you anything you want. Could just go with a custom sealed 10". Somebody around here got one recently, maybe n8?. If you want a ported could just look at the 228HT. That is what I am using.


Yes Nate has a custom low profile center channel that uses the same CD and waveguide as the 212HT's and has 10" drivers.
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post #20542 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 06:54 PM
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OPTION E: 215RTs with 2 SI HS24 DIY subs. I would pick the 215s over the 212s for two reasons; wider soundstage due to larger horn and much stronger midbass. And I agree with the HT team that more subs around the room is better. I'd recommend getting a pair of SI HS24 DIY subs as they were awesome/phenomenal/world-class at Beasts GTG powered by a Peavey IPR7500 pro amp. UXL-18 or the upcoming Dayton 18 would be good options. If you don't want to go DIY, then I'd look to the future and see how many you'd add in the future. If only a few, get a pair of OS's but I'm a fan of sealed as they're easier to integrate so I'd recommend the S2s but they wouldn't have the output above 20Hz that the OS's would have until you get a few.

And I'm sorry to school you but you're in the JTR thread now. We don't let friends mention 12" subwoofers.
If he goes with the OS and 212HT option he will have more midbass everywhere over the 215. You have to remember the 212 is 101dB sensitive and above 80HZ is going to have more output compared to the 215 if they are powered equally. The 215 is 95dB sensitive b/c it is tuned to go lower and you inevitably have to give up some sensitivity. I am not saying that is bad but make no mistake the 212HT paired with the OS is still the output monster combo.

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post #20543 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:17 PM
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If he goes with the OS and 212HT option he will have more midbass everywhere over the 215. You have to remember the 212 is 101dB sensitive and above 80HZ is going to have more output compared to the 215 if they are powered equally. The 215 is 95dB sensitive b/c it is tuned to go lower and you inevitably have to give up some sensitivity. I am not saying that is bad but make no mistake the 212HT paired with the OS is still the output monster combo.
I don't agree with your assertion of 212 and OS combo having stronger output. While definitely a monster, the OS shouldn't be played up to 150-200Hz to get the strong high midbass that the 212 lacks (according to some opinions). I know a pair of 12" speakers should give strong midbass but I'm not impressed with mine and I know Coach and N8DOGG both upgraded to the 215s, partially due to the lack of midbass in the 212s. Simply my opinion.

And I can't fit the 215RTs so I won't be upgrading to them. I would have considered the 215RM but hearing it is only designed to play down to 60Hz makes me wonder if it would be much of a midbass improvement. However, I do look forward to comparing Coach's 215RM center to my 212 to see if there is (enough of) a difference in soundstage width and midbass output.

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post #20544 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I don't know about the 210RT but the 215RT will have the 215RM which is a smaller, sealed version of the 215 with the same horn and 15" midbasses. I don't have exact measurements handy but I'm pretty sure they are 48"x17"x18"deep. I was really considering swapping my 212HTs for the 215RMs until I heard the RMs will only go down to about 60Hz.
That is correct on the dimensions for the 215RM. I have one coming in a week or two to go with my 215RT'S.
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post #20545 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I don't agree with your assertion of 212 and OS combo having stronger output. While definitely a monster, the OS shouldn't be played up to 150-200Hz to get the strong high midbass that the 212 lacks (according to some opinions). I know a pair of 12" speakers should give strong midbass but I'm not impressed with mine and I know Coach and N8DOGG both upgraded to the 215s, partially due to the lack of midbass in the 212s. Simply my opinion.
I am not saying play the OS up to 150-200. What I am saying is up to 80HZ the OS has more output than two 215's and above 80hz the 212HT has more output than the 215RT. So together they have it covered. You can test it yourself but I have seen the testing and the 215 is almost flat at 95dB sensitive down to 20 and the 212HT is 101 down to about 60 but let's say 80 for sure and the OS is 97dB sens and can handle 4000 watts. They are what they are.

Placement means a lot in a room and if the taller design of the 215 puts the woofers closer to the ceiling and floor the response can change (some freq increased some decreased and some unchanged)

Changing out the 212HT for the 215RT for more midbass can be a good reason if you don't have the below 80hz covered by something else already more powerful or you simply want to run two channel.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #20546 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:31 PM
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228HT make EXCELLENT surrounds if you only have need of a 60* spread pattern from your speaker mounting location to your listening position. If you have need for a wider spread because of multiple rows then a single 8 or other coaxial drive speaker sprays a wider path.

If you haven't heard the 228HT as surrounds, as I and others have, at one of the dlbeck G2Gs - then I don't know how you can say they don't make good surrounds. They are ridiculously capable of volume - like the 212HT and the gattling gun scene from book of eli at +17 with an all JTR system (212HT front, 228HT rears) was the loudest cleanest, most capable theater system I've ever heard.

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post #20547 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
I am not saying play the OS up to 150-200. What I am saying is up to 80HZ the OS has more output than two 215's and above 80hz the 212HT has more output than the 215RT. So together they have it covered. You can test it yourself but I have seen the testing and the 215 is almost flat at 95dB sensitive down to 20 and the 212HT is 101 down to about 60 but let's say 80 for sure and the OS is 97dB sens and can handle 4000 watts. They are what they are.

Placement means a lot in a room and if the taller design of the 215 puts the woofers closer to the ceiling and floor the response can change (some freq increased some decreased and some unchanged)

Changing out the 212HT for the 215RT for more midbass can be a good reason if you don't have the below 80hz covered by something else already more powerful or you simply want to run two channel.
I don't buy or understand your sensitivity argument. We aren't playing these speakers anywhere near their limits where sensitivity would matter, at least I'm not. Whether a speaker is 89, 95, or 101 db sensitive has more to do with how many watts are required to get to a certain volume and have little to do with the output a speaker has from 80-200Hz.

Reread N8DOGGs comments about the 215 and midbass. He has a hell of a lot more subwooferage than anybody else and even had MBMs. With the 212s he needed the MBMs and now with the 215RTs, he mentioned not needing the MBMs anymore.
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post #20548 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:34 PM
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Check out the 80-200hz midbass in my room with the 212HT, no subs running at all and a -7dB 1/3band octave filter.

OK I can't import a pic. sorry not used to the new format yet

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9

Last edited by lbrown105; 06-12-2014 at 07:41 PM.
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post #20549 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I don't buy or understand your sensitivity argument. We aren't playing these speakers anywhere near their limits where sensitivity would matter, at least I'm not. Whether a speaker is 89, 95, or 101 db sensitive has more to do with how many watts are required to get to a certain volume and have little to do with the output a speaker has from 80-200Hz.

Reread N8DOGGs comments about the 215 and midbass. He has a hell of a lot more subwooferage than anybody else and even had MBMs. With the 212s he needed the MBMs and now with the 215RTs, he mentioned not needing the MBMs anymore.
well if the speakers are designed flat across the FR then sensitivity has a lot to do with the output for the entire FR including the 80-200hz band. I have read comments and it doesn't change the response. I will say I also remember him saying that his HT's had more output in what he called the midabass range than his 212LP's which is understandable inn many real world placement situations where boundaries exist fairly close.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #20550 of 23354 Old 06-12-2014, 07:52 PM
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I guess my problem is I should have never listened to Beast's Danleys. Wider soundstage and stronger midbass...in a less sensitive speaker (maybe 95db). If Danley makes a more articulate HT specific version as they have discussed, my 212s will likely be in the classifieds...if the forum is fixed by then.
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