Official JTR speaker thread - Page 688 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20611 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I wonder if Jeff would redesign the 212 Noesis. Like a gen 2 or something. And put different woofers in them and of course the crossover work. Just seems like it wouldn't be too hard to do and all this mid bass crisis could be solved with 12 inch woofers just different ones. Right? I mean get away from the very low xmax of the eminence and something else? Or am I missing something?
Did you ever talk to him about this? I would be interested in this.
No I did not. I am not in a position to spend money for years to come. Any major upgrades that is. When I build my theater room I will upgrade to some flagship JTR's and S8's in like a 9 channel system. Also add numerous DIY 18's to my dual submersives, AT screen, etc. Actually there was recent talk from my wifes family about us inheriting the grape farm in Grandview Washington. The house house a decent sized basement that is just begging for a conversion! Just have to see about what walls can be knocked down and just vertical support beams left.

But I was just thinking with all this recent mid-bass talk and crave why not just develop the 212 design with different woofers for a different mid-bass sonic signature?

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post #20612 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 03:25 PM
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I see Jeff has posted on FB that he is discontinuing the Triples, and has them on sale at the moment.
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post #20613 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Timokreon View Post
I see Jeff has posted on FB that he is discontinuing the Triples, and has them on sale at the moment.
.. Was just going to post that. Lol.. My wife sent me a picture text about Jeffs post in FB about the sale.. Lol
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post #20614 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:26 PM
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Triple 12's were my first JTR speaker purchase....all of 15 months ago.

Now I am anxiously awaiting my third setup....which should be here very soon.
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post #20615 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
No I did not. I am not in a position to spend money for years to come. Any major upgrades that is. When I build my theater room I will upgrade to some flagship JTR's and S8's in like a 9 channel system. Also add numerous DIY 18's to my dual submersives, AT screen, etc. Actually there was recent talk from my wifes family about us inheriting the grape farm in Grandview Washington. The house house a decent sized basement that is just begging for a conversion! Just have to see about what walls can be knocked down and just vertical support beams left.

But I was just thinking with all this recent mid-bass talk and crave why not just develop the 212 design with different woofers for a different mid-bass sonic signature?
I am thinking about grapes myself, I thought about getting some property and just growing grapes. Wineries are exploding here. They found that where we live, the weather, climate and soil resemble that of French vineyards and being in-between the bay and ocean is supposed to be great for grapes? Some of the wines here are already getting great reviews and most of these vineyards are not even close to matured yet. Yeah its pretty cool. Large plots of land here are tuning quick to grapes.

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post #20616 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Triple 12's were my first JTR speaker purchase....all of 15 months ago.

Now I am anxiously awaiting my third setup....which should be here very soon.

Go big or go home right Coach!!!... FTW LOL
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post #20617 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:43 PM
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Go big or go home right Coach!!!... FTW LOL
BIG is an understatement this time around... lol
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post #20618 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:49 PM
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BIG is an understatement this time around... lol
My ears are absolutely looking forward to hearing the 215RTs and 215RM at Coach's. But my back certainly is not looking forward to carrying to 215RTs up those stairs.
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post #20619 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 05:57 PM
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My ears are absolutely looking forward to hearing the 215RTs and 215RM at Coach's. But my back certainly is not looking forward to carrying to 215RTs up those stairs.
You and my other buddy are going to have your hands full carrying those upstairs while I open and close the doors..
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post #20620 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 06:34 PM
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Anyone know the height to the center of the horn on the 215RT?

Last edited by SOWK; 06-16-2014 at 06:44 PM.
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post #20621 of 30781 Old 06-16-2014, 10:44 PM
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Anyone know the height to the center of the horn on the 215RT?
I don't have the RT so I took an image and did some estimations.

Based on the width of the cabinet, the top woofer box is 17" wide and tall. Copying that and pasting that alongside the center horn, the horn appears to be about 16" tall and wide. So taking 72" tall - 17" (woofer) -8" (half of horn height), the center of the horn is about 47" high. Obviously it would be better if someone could measure them in person but my calcs should get us close.

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post #20622 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Timokreon View Post
I see Jeff has posted on FB that he is discontinuing the Triples, and has them on sale at the moment.
Thanks for the post! I've been enjoying my 3x T8 and 4x S8 for a couple years now in a traditional 7.1 setup. Maybe now is the time to get some more speakers for my eventual upgrade to 11+ channels once the standards get sorted out. It's been hard not to pull the trigger on Noesis speakers, but I think that in my dedicated room, money would be better spent on more channels, since I can't afford to do both!
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post #20623 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 08:17 AM
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Long time lurker. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on some speakers for my new theater and the triple 12s go on sale. I need some advice from those that have heard both the T12 and Noesis 228. How do they compare sound-quality wise? I know the T12 can be driven louder, which would be nice, but I'm more focused on sound quality. Usage is 80/20 movies/music, and they will be in a dedicated, treated room with an AT screen. One sub to start (an svs pb12-nsd from before) but will probably add more later. Ultimately I'd like to add 4 slant-8s for a 7.1 system, but want to invest in a good front stage first and go from there. It'll be driven by an x4000 or the new incarnation to start. Thanks.

Edit: the only other speaker on my list for front stage is the JBL 3677. If any of you have heard those and can comment versus the 2 JTRs listed above, that would be fantastic.
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post #20624 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by carp 

I don't understand how it would work exactly, but it sounds like a worthwhile experiment! Would the subs be in the same spots? I assume you don't want to lose that quarter point placement.


Yep same spots, would just switch the AVR to full range and take a L/R out to the DCX and actively cross there. Could be very feasible.
Take your top and place a sub under it and use the DCX for active crossover and it is a tower speaker. Nothing magical about it. The 215 could be made in three separate parts, stacked and it would be the same thing.

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post #20625 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
Long time lurker. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on some speakers for my new theater and the triple 12s go on sale. I need some advice from those that have heard both the T12 and Noesis 228. How do they compare sound-quality wise? I know the T12 can be driven louder, which would be nice, but I'm more focused on sound quality. Usage is 80/20 movies/music, and they will be in a dedicated, treated room with an AT screen. One sub to start (an svs pb12-nsd from before) but will probably add more later. Ultimately I'd like to add 4 slant-8s for a 7.1 system, but want to invest in a good front stage first and go from there. It'll be driven by an x4000 or the new incarnation to start. Thanks.

Edit: the only other speaker on my list for front stage is the JBL 3677. If any of you have heard those and can comment versus the 2 JTRs listed above, that would be fantastic.
Keep an eye on the classifieds. There are a few T12's in there right now or there were. I know Seanile was selling his.

Here is his link. JTR Triple 12LF LCR (3 speakers) for sale

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post #20626 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
Long time lurker. I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on some speakers for my new theater and the triple 12s go on sale. I need some advice from those that have heard both the T12 and Noesis 228. How do they compare sound-quality wise? I know the T12 can be driven louder, which would be nice, but I'm more focused on sound quality. Usage is 80/20 movies/music, and they will be in a dedicated, treated room with an AT screen. One sub to start (an svs pb12-nsd from before) but will probably add more later. Ultimately I'd like to add 4 slant-8s for a 7.1 system, but want to invest in a good front stage first and go from there. It'll be driven by an x4000 or the new incarnation to start. Thanks.

Edit: the only other speaker on my list for front stage is the JBL 3677. If any of you have heard those and can comment versus the 2 JTRs listed above, that would be fantastic.
There is another Forum member (I'dratherbeflying) who is selling my 2012 T12's in the classified section. I loved those speakers and they would be perfect for your use as would the Noesis 228's .

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post #20627 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 02:24 PM
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Kind of a Debbie Downer post. I am sorry to post this.

I recently received 3 228HTs in black oak veneer and 4 Slant 8s in black satin finish. My retirement speaker system.
Unlike most here, my usage is in a traditional multi-use living room as I don't have a spare room for a theater.
Using them with the dual Seaton Submersives master-slave units.

Just got the 228s set up and played my first movie last night. The Slant8s have not been mounted yet. No complaints on sound quality and will need more time to break them in and fine tune my layout.

The downer part is the cabinets on the JTRs. To be fair, these were ordered at the end of the year to beat the price increases and I am sure Jeff and the cabinet shop were really cranking out product to get caught back up. Would be no complaint if used in a theater room but in a living room the speakers get looked at quite closely. The black satin finish on the Slant 8s is extremely soft. Takes just a very light pressure from a finger nail to mark the finish and show as scratches. I mean just drag the back of your fingers across the finish and it leaves marks. Also the plywood joints all show through the finish as they are not sanded smooth and flat. There are scratches in the finish just from getting them out of the shipping boxes. Would have thought the finish would have hardened by now as they arrived about 10 weeks ago and I just now got them out. Thinking I will remove the drivers, sand and repaint them myself. While I like the smooth satin finish I am not sure it was worth the extra $ for that. Wish I could have seen and touched the standard finish before ordering. I ordered the satin finish to be able to paint them in the future to match wall colors if needed.
One of the 228HTs with the black oak veneer on one side have quite a few runs in the finish coat - whatever that was. Lacquer maybe? No easy way to fix that. Quite hard to see with the black finish. Going to leave it alone as the one side can be positioned where no one else will ever see it. Luckily the room is fairly dark so only shows up when the overhead lights are on.

Was under the impression that the same cabinet company did the Seaton speakers and JTRs. My Submersives have a perfect finish - no blemishes that I have found at all.

I don't have an expensive home or a fancy living room so I can live with these for the sound. If you are ordering veneered speakers, I would ask Jeff to give them a really good look-over prior to shipping. Think I just got caught in the end of year rush. Many others here have ordered custom finishes and I don't recall anyone else commenting on not being happy.
Peter, did you ever reach out to Jeff and see what he will do for you?
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post #20628 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 02:27 PM
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There is another Forum member (I'dratherbeflying) who is selling my 2012 T12's in the classified section. I loved those speakers and they would be perfect for your use as would the Noesis 228's .
I thought they sold? I would have added that link.

I have a question. What do you guys think about pairing 215's with a 228 center channel?
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post #20629 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 02:33 PM
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I thought they sold? I would have added that link.

I have a question. What do you guys think about pairing 215's with a 228 center channel?

If wanted to do that I would look at getting Jeff to make you another one of those custom center channels that he did already. He used the cabinet of the 228HT's along with the 8" drivers, but it had a custom wooden horn and used the 4593 compression driver.
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post #20630 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 02:39 PM
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If wanted to do that I would look at getting Jeff to make you another one of those custom center channels that he did already. He used the cabinet of the 228HT's along with the 8" drivers, but it had a custom wooden horn and used the 4593 compression driver.

What did that cost, would you happen to know. My thoughts are the 228 does fine now, I would think better going in a smaller dedicated treated room.

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post #20631 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 02:43 PM
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What did that cost, would you happen to know. My thoughts are the 228 does fine now, I would think better going in a smaller dedicated treated room.
I believe it basically brings the price up to exactly what a 212HT would cost, as most of that in the increased price of the 4593 compression driver.
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post #20632 of 30781 Old 06-17-2014, 03:47 PM
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Peter, did you ever reach out to Jeff and see what he will do for you?
Yes I heard back from Jeff. He offered to reimburse me somewhat for the extra I paid. I turned it down. Told him I can handle this as I am a hobby woodworker. I had built my last 9 speaker system from raw driver kits and know how to veneer and finish. Told Jeff I just ask him to take extra time to examine the cabinets for future custom orders. I bet most of my issue was my order being part of the end of year crush as Jeff was trying to get caught back up. Maybe I am more picky than others or maybe I just do a better finish job myself.

Heard from Mark Seaton also. He told me that Jeff no longer uses the same cabinet shop as he does.

They do seem to have different business models as Mark offers set options in veneer and does not do custom work (or very rarely) so he probably has far tighter control on the quality of cabinets. Jeff does virtually all his custom finishes as single orders to his shop as he doesn't stock enclosures unlike Mark who keeps his various finishes in stock ready to ship.

I had originally wanted to purchase an all Seaton setup but the cost was quite a bit more than I could afford. I did order the Submersives which I absolutely love and looking closely at the veneer work and finish work shows real differences compared to the JTRs. I sure can't complain about the JTR sound quality!
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I am thinking about grapes myself, I thought about getting some property and just growing grapes. Wineries are exploding here. They found that where we live, the weather, climate and soil resemble that of French vineyards and being in-between the bay and ocean is supposed to be great for grapes? Some of the wines here are already getting great reviews and most of these vineyards are not even close to matured yet. Yeah its pretty cool. Large plots of land here are tuning quick to grapes.

http://njmonthly.com/articles/lifest...rime-time.html
Yea these grapes are sold to the Welches plants up there in Washington state. But its not a full time gig and yeilds a nice little chunk every year...Plus that basement...

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post #20634 of 30781 Old 06-18-2014, 01:56 PM
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for anyone thinking about a pre-amp - this is a really nice price for brand new Onkyo 5508 pre-amp on ebay. I paid $250 less than this for used and that was a good price IMO.
This pre-amp has every single available current bell and whistle available with the exception of 4k.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONKYO-PRSC55...p2054897.l4275

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post #20635 of 30781 Old 06-18-2014, 02:14 PM
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I'd like to get some input on placement for my surround speakers. I have (2) Volt V10s on the way along with (2) of the angled surround flat packs from DIY Sound Group.

These will be paired with my (3) 228HTs and (1) Cap S2 (shown in the first picture below). As you can see in the next two pictures, placement options will not be ideal for the SL and SR channels. Note that the distance between the top of the door frame and the ceiling is 12" and the height of the V10 enclosure is 14", so the SL would not be able to flush mount above the door.

A few options I am considering are below. If anyone has any suggestions on placement and/or methods for mounting please let me know. I'm trying to make do with the limited space that I have!

1. SL flush mounted on the rear wall facing forward towards the TV.
1. SR flush mounted on the rear wall facing forward towards the TV.

2. SL flush mounted on the LH wall just forward of the angled door frame wall facing towards the middle of the room.
2. SR flush mounted on the rear wall facing forward towards the TV.

3. SL flush mounted on the LH wall just forward of the angled door frame wall facing towards the middle of the room.
3. SR flush mounted on the RH wall between the rear wall and window facing towards the MLP.

4. SL mounted to the ceiling above the door frame and facing towards the MLP (the RH side of the speaker enclosure would be touching the angled wall above the door frame and there would be space behind the speaker enclosure and the LH wall).
4. SR flush mounted on the RH wall between the rear wall and window facing towards the MLP.
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post #20636 of 30781 Old 06-18-2014, 09:19 PM
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Whatever you decide you will be impressed with the Volt speakers. Great speaker for the price! I have mine flanked to the left and right slightly behind the MLP facing in towards the MLP. I would recommend the same or whatever position gives you the most direct facing to your MLP.

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post #20637 of 30781 Old 06-19-2014, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
for anyone thinking about a pre-amp - this is a really nice price for brand new Onkyo 5508 pre-amp on ebay. I paid $250 less than this for used and that was a good price IMO.
This pre-amp has every single available current bell and whistle available with the exception of 4k.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONKYO-PRSC55...p2054897.l4275
I knew that one day you and your deal posting would get me into trouble. As you know I have a hiss on my Sherbourn PA 7-350. I think you had the same thing and if I recall you fixed the problem by switching to a preamp with balanced outputs. My current denon 4311 lacks this output so I can't try it for myself to verify if this would also fix my problem. But is this what you experienced?

My JTR Noesis 212HT's will be even more sensitive than my Klipsch so it won't get any better for me. Actually I can even hear the hiss on my low sensitivity triad surrounds! There is no audible hiss with the denon 4311 however so it really is the Sherbourn. It would stink to be locked into an expensive preamp with balanced outputs forever though.

Now on the other hand I suppose I could keep the 4311 and sell the Sherbourn. I would then need to buy some amplification if I felt the AVR would not cut it. The denon 4311 states that it can handle 4 ohm speakers. I was not able to detect any amplification problems at reference when the 212's were over here. My surrounds are triad in wall bronze and I will need to check on their impedance. If I was able to sell the Sherbourn and stick with the AVR that would certainly be welcome. The Sherbourn might need to be sold locally since it is a 100 lb behemoth!

Hmm. I think I need some opinions here.
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post #20638 of 30781 Old 06-19-2014, 08:33 AM
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post #20639 of 30781 Old 06-19-2014, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
I knew that one day you and your deal posting would get me into trouble. As you know I have a hiss on my Sherbourn PA 7-350. I think you had the same thing and if I recall you fixed the problem by switching to a preamp with balanced outputs. My current denon 4311 lacks this output so I can't try it for myself to verify if this would also fix my problem. But is this what you experienced?

My JTR Noesis 212HT's will be even more sensitive than my Klipsch so it won't get any better for me. Actually I can even hear the hiss on my low sensitivity triad surrounds! There is no audible hiss with the denon 4311 however so it really is the Sherbourn. It would stink to be locked into an expensive preamp with balanced outputs forever though.

Now on the other hand I suppose I could keep the 4311 and sell the Sherbourn. I would then need to buy some amplification if I felt the AVR would not cut it. The denon 4311 states that it can handle 4 ohm speakers. I was not able to detect any amplification problems at reference when the 212's were over here. My surrounds are triad in wall bronze and I will need to check on their impedance. If I was able to sell the Sherbourn and stick with the AVR that would certainly be welcome. The Sherbourn might need to be sold locally since it is a 100 lb behemoth!

Hmm. I think I need some opinions here.
Honestly in your situation I would sell the Sherbourn. Yes, I got rid of my any noticeable hiss by buying the XLR equipped Onkyo 5508 preamp. However, with the Sherbourn amp all my speakers are too senstive to be calibrated by Audyssey. The Mackie and the JTR are all set at -12dB which is outside of the range of the auto calibration features. So I had to set a new reference level of -10 on the AVR. That annoyed me because my pre-amp display didn't read 0 at reference. (OCD, I know) - So I bought seven cheap 10dB XLR attenuators. Guess what - the cheap attenuators work and all measure identically in frequency response to no attenuator, but they brought back my hiss. I suppose I could try a higher quality attenuator - but they get expensive fast and I already verified they all are perfect in regards to just equally lowering spl level and not affecting frequency response. So would a more expensive attenuator get rid of the hiss? I dont know - but it's all becoming FAR too big a headache. If you have senstive speakers in a smaller room (or close proximity) I don't think the Sherbourn amp with its fixed 32dB amplification is a good match. I've been considering selling mine as well and going back to a normal AVR or seperate amps. But I'll probably wait for ATMOS equipped AVRs to come out to make the next switch. The Sherbourn would be an excellent match to low sensitivity speakers - but I've found it to be a headache for high sensitivity speakers. I do not think you need more than the Denon 4311 you have for the 212HT to easily hit reference (with plenty of headroom to spare) in your small to medium sized room. One thing to note (not that I believe in any way you need it for the 212HT) - but the Sherbourn amp is a power pool according to reivews - they aren't dedicated amps - meaning if you run just two or three channels - you get the entire power pool directed towards the two or three speakers - not just the rated 350 per channel for seven channels. So one could use the Sherbourn 7-350 like you'd use an Emotiva XPA-3 -- as a L/C/R amplifier - but you do NOT need it with the 212HT.

selll it.
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post #20640 of 30781 Old 06-19-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
I knew that one day you and your deal posting would get me into trouble. As you know I have a hiss on my Sherbourn PA 7-350. I think you had the same thing and if I recall you fixed the problem by switching to a preamp with balanced outputs. My current denon 4311 lacks this output so I can't try it for myself to verify if this would also fix my problem. But is this what you experienced?

My JTR Noesis 212HT's will be even more sensitive than my Klipsch so it won't get any better for me. Actually I can even hear the hiss on my low sensitivity triad surrounds! There is no audible hiss with the denon 4311 however so it really is the Sherbourn. It would stink to be locked into an expensive preamp with balanced outputs forever though.

Now on the other hand I suppose I could keep the 4311 and sell the Sherbourn. I would then need to buy some amplification if I felt the AVR would not cut it. The denon 4311 states that it can handle 4 ohm speakers. I was not able to detect any amplification problems at reference when the 212's were over here. My surrounds are triad in wall bronze and I will need to check on their impedance. If I was able to sell the Sherbourn and stick with the AVR that would certainly be welcome. The Sherbourn might need to be sold locally since it is a 100 lb behemoth!

Hmm. I think I need some opinions here.
I am currently running a 4520 with a 5.2 JTR 212 mains and JTR Single 8's and there is no need for an amp. I am sure the 4311 would be no different.
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