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post #20641 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Honestly in your situation I would sell the Sherbourn. Yes, I got rid of my any noticeable hiss by buying the XLR equipped Onkyo 5508 preamp. However, with the Sherbourn amp all my speakers are too senstive to be calibrated by Audyssey. The Mackie and the JTR are all set at -12dB which is outside of the range of the auto calibration features. So I had to set a new reference level of -10 on the AVR. That annoyed me because my pre-amp display didn't read 0 at reference. (OCD, I know) - So I bought seven cheap 10dB XLR attenuators. Guess what - the cheap attenuators work and all measure identically in frequency response to no attenuator, but they brought back my hiss. I suppose I could try a higher quality attenuator - but they get expensive fast and I already verified they all are perfect in regards to just equally lowering spl level and not affecting frequency response. So would a more expensive attenuator get rid of the hiss? I dont know - but it's all becoming FAR too big a headache. If you have senstive speakers in a smaller room (or close proximity) I don't think the Sherbourn amp with its fixed 32dB amplification is a good match. I've been considering selling mine as well and going back to a normal AVR or seperate amps. But I'll probably wait for ATMOS equipped AVRs to come out to make the next switch. The Sherbourn would be an excellent match to low sensitivity speakers - but I've found it to be a headache for high sensitivity speakers. I do not think you need more than the Denon 4311 you have for the 212HT to easily hit reference (with plenty of headroom to spare) in your small to medium sized room. One thing to note (not that I believe in any way you need it for the 212HT) - but the Sherbourn amp is a power pool according to reivews - they aren't dedicated amps - meaning if you run just two or three channels - you get the power pool directed towards two or three speakers - not just the rated 350 per channel. So one could use the Sherbourn 7-350 like you'd use an Emotiva XPA-3 -- as a L/C/R amplifier - but you do NOT need it with the 212HT.

selll it.

The only thing audyssey is not doing is your trims so you get 0. You still get 100% of the calibration regardless what it sets your trims at. The internal trims go to -20.

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post #20642 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 12:52 PM
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-20 internal trims. What does that mean Nate? My trims max at -12db on my 5508?.?.

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post #20643 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
-20 internal trims. What does that mean Nate? My trims max at -12db on my 5508?.?.
I think he is saying that for calibration purposes Audyssey can really "trim" up to -20 dB. So for example, you run an Audyssey calibration and it "maxes" your trim levels at -12. You use an SPL meter to check the actual level of your speakers and they read at 80 dB, which means they should be set at -17.

This just means that when you are at -5 dB MV you are really at reference, but what Nate is saying is that you did not lose any calibration information because Audyssey can "internally trim" up to -20 dB. Essentially you would only have to worry about issues in the calibration if your speakers were at > 83 dB on your SPL meter. This would mean you are > 8 dB past the "max" trim of -12, which means you have exceeded the "internal limit" of -20 dB for the Audyssey calibration.

I have to note that I have no idea if this is how Audyssey actually works, I am just interpreting what I think Nate meant!
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post #20644 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
I knew that one day you and your deal posting would get me into trouble. As you know I have a hiss on my Sherbourn PA 7-350. I think you had the same thing and if I recall you fixed the problem by switching to a preamp with balanced outputs. My current denon 4311 lacks this output so I can't try it for myself to verify if this would also fix my problem. But is this what you experienced?

My JTR Noesis 212HT's will be even more sensitive than my Klipsch so it won't get any better for me. Actually I can even hear the hiss on my low sensitivity triad surrounds! There is no audible hiss with the denon 4311 however so it really is the Sherbourn. It would stink to be locked into an expensive preamp with balanced outputs forever though.

Now on the other hand I suppose I could keep the 4311 and sell the Sherbourn. I would then need to buy some amplification if I felt the AVR would not cut it. The denon 4311 states that it can handle 4 ohm speakers. I was not able to detect any amplification problems at reference when the 212's were over here. My surrounds are triad in wall bronze and I will need to check on their impedance. If I was able to sell the Sherbourn and stick with the AVR that would certainly be welcome. The Sherbourn might need to be sold locally since it is a 100 lb behemoth!

Hmm. I think I need some opinions here.
I sold my Sherbourn and shipped it to Atlanta. I sent it on a pallet via YRC freight. Keeps it from rolling it's way to wherever it is going. If you have a friend or any connection to a freight company it should be like 115 ish to ship it. I bought a Denon 4520 and am powering my LCR Triple 8's and two Volt 10 speakers on surround duty. I am also going to add some cheap (as long as it doesn't compromise SQ and add distortion) little monitors in the height, wide, and surround back positions. I have had no issues with amplification and have been to +10 on music. I recommend listing on ebay and then making the deal outside of ebay to avoid fees and just use Paypal to keep it secure. I sold mine there and also tipped Beast for the sale of his as I had like 5 guys hit me up on the amp.

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post #20645 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
-20 internal trims. What does that mean Nate? My trims max at -12db on my 5508?.?.

Audyssey can internally EQ more than the users trims show. Even though the user can only adjust from -12, the internal EQ actually goes to something like -20. The trims are nothing more than setting your reference at 0. The internal EQ goes much farther.

You can either just manually up your trims to match or use attenuators. Either way, your actual EQ will be the same.

We've discussed this quite a few times on this thread actually. Even got that answer from audyssey themselves.

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post #20646 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Honestly in your situation I would sell the Sherbourn. Yes, I got rid of my any noticeable hiss by buying the XLR equipped Onkyo 5508 preamp. However, with the Sherbourn amp all my speakers are too senstive to be calibrated by Audyssey. The Mackie and the JTR are all set at -12dB which is outside of the range of the auto calibration features. So I had to set a new reference level of -10 on the AVR. That annoyed me because my pre-amp display didn't read 0 at reference. (OCD, I know) - So I bought seven cheap 10dB XLR attenuators. Guess what - the cheap attenuators work and all measure identically in frequency response to no attenuator, but they brought back my hiss. I suppose I could try a higher quality attenuator - but they get expensive fast and I already verified they all are perfect in regards to just equally lowering spl level and not affecting frequency response. So would a more expensive attenuator get rid of the hiss? I dont know - but it's all becoming FAR too big a headache. If you have senstive speakers in a smaller room (or close proximity) I don't think the Sherbourn amp with its fixed 32dB amplification is a good match. I've been considering selling mine as well and going back to a normal AVR or seperate amps. But I'll probably wait for ATMOS equipped AVRs to come out to make the next switch. The Sherbourn would be an excellent match to low sensitivity speakers - but I've found it to be a headache for high sensitivity speakers. I do not think you need more than the Denon 4311 you have for the 212HT to easily hit reference (with plenty of headroom to spare) in your small to medium sized room. One thing to note (not that I believe in any way you need it for the 212HT) - but the Sherbourn amp is a power pool according to reivews - they aren't dedicated amps - meaning if you run just two or three channels - you get the entire power pool directed towards the two or three speakers - not just the rated 350 per channel for seven channels. So one could use the Sherbourn 7-350 like you'd use an Emotiva XPA-3 -- as a L/C/R amplifier - but you do NOT need it with the 212HT.

selll it.
I was hoping you would say that. Now I can sell it and spend the dough on an upgrade of some sort. Maybe my DIY sub project to complement the OS.

Regarding the dB disparity. Its not just you. If reference wasn't reference on my dial then I would go a little nuts too.
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post #20647 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 07:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I am currently running a 4520 with a 5.2 JTR 212 mains and JTR Single 8's and there is no need for an amp. I am sure the 4311 would be no different.
Good to know someone is running these 4 ohm speakers with a similar amplifier.
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post #20648 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I sold my Sherbourn and shipped it to Atlanta. I sent it on a pallet via YRC freight. Keeps it from rolling it's way to wherever it is going. If you have a friend or any connection to a freight company it should be like 115 ish to ship it. I bought a Denon 4520 and am powering my LCR Triple 8's and two Volt 10 speakers on surround duty. I am also going to add some cheap (as long as it doesn't compromise SQ and add distortion) little monitors in the height, wide, and surround back positions. I have had no issues with amplification and have been to +10 on music. I recommend listing on ebay and then making the deal outside of ebay to avoid fees and just use Paypal to keep it secure. I sold mine there and also tipped Beast for the sale of his as I had like 5 guys hit me up on the amp.
That's a great tip. Increases my chances of selling at a good price and quickly if I wanted.
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post #20649 of 30542 Old 06-19-2014, 10:03 PM
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Question answered. Thanks.

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post #20650 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 07:49 PM
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Good to know someone is running these 4 ohm speakers with a similar amplifier.
I have 3 212's and 4 Slanted 8's on a 7.3 setup powered by a Denon X4000. I won't be calibrating audio for another week or two but so far I'm 100% satisfied.

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post #20651 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 08:27 PM
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I have 3 212's and 4 Slanted 8's on a 7.3 setup powered by a Denon X4000. I won't be calibrating audio for another week or two but so far I'm 100% satisfied.
what three subs are you running?
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post #20652 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 08:38 PM
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what three subs are you running?
2 Cap S2's in the front and a Power Sound Audio XS30 in the rear. I had a rather large null right down the center of the room and adding the XS30 helped a bunch.

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post #20653 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 08:44 PM
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Man, this thread sure has been dead since the format change! I've reverted to my car/truck hobby for now and found a guy willing to pay top dollar for my 86 regal T-Type, just by chance mind you.... and bought a 2008 GT500 with 753 RWHP and 11,500 km's for close to the same money! Turns out the guy lived 6 houses down from me on the other side of the street! He's 63, Built the car and never drives it.... but to make it even more bizarre, the guy who bought my car is his son!!! When we all figured it all out it felt like we were on a tv show... just totally bizzare how it all happened withing 2 days! lol

I will also be selling 1 more of my S8 sets. I just won't be using them any time soon. I have my list of guys who were interested, I'm gonna try local at first but will be willing to got 1300$ (US)split shipping in the US or 1300$ (CDN) split shipping in CDN as shipping will be much less expensive so the difference in money wont be too much.

they are pretty much brand new, I replaced them with my slant 8's and had use them for about a month.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #20654 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
2 Cap S2's in the front and a Power Sound Audio XS30 in the rear. I had a rather large null right down the center of the room and adding the XS30 helped a bunch.
Those are great subs, I had dual XS30's before selling them and going with four large ported 18" diy subs. Actually I was like the third person to buy the XS30's when PSA released them.
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post #20655 of 30542 Old 06-20-2014, 09:26 PM
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Those are great subs, I had dual XS30's before selling them and going with four large ported 18" diy subs. Actually I was like the third person to buy the XS30's when PSA released them.
I was going to use the XS30 in a family room 5.1 right outside the theater and I replaced it with a Velodyne 125 watt something or other I had in the garage. The XS30 is doing a great job in the theater and the Velodyne is fine for what I want it for. For what it's worth, I don't have a man cave, rather, I have a man floor - theater, bar, family room, office, game room, and driving range (not kidding).

Additionally, I've always been a video guy and when I decided to build this new house and have a dedicated theater I first started investigating quality speakers. I've read all the comments about hearing "everything" and what a huge difference speakers can make etc. etc..... This is the first (and last - I'm old) great set of speakers I've ever had and all I can say is that I'm totally floored. Listening to "my" music from the 60's and 70's is an entirely new experience and I'll be forever grateful to all of you on this forum for helping push me over the edge. The action film experience (especially bass) not withstanding, I have a high intensity light installed right over the MLP for reading while listening to music in my totally black theater. The experience is astounding.

Thanks to all of you and Jeff.

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post #20656 of 30542 Old 06-21-2014, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I was going to use the XS30 in a family room 5.1 right outside the theater and I replaced it with a Velodyne 125 watt something or other I had in the garage. The XS30 is doing a great job in the theater and the Velodyne is fine for what I want it for. For what it's worth, I don't have a man cave, rather, I have a man floor - theater, bar, family room, office, game room, and driving range (not kidding).

Additionally, I've always been a video guy and when I decided to build this new house and have a dedicated theater I first started investigating quality speakers. I've read all the comments about hearing "everything" and what a huge difference speakers can make etc. etc..... This is the first (and last - I'm old) great set of speakers I've ever had and all I can say is that I'm totally floored. Listening to "my" music from the 60's and 70's is an entirely new experience and I'll be forever grateful to all of you on this forum for helping push me over the edge. The action film experience (especially bass) not withstanding, I have a high intensity light installed right over the MLP for reading while listening to music in my totally black theater. The experience is astounding.

Thanks to all of you and Jeff.
And thanks to you for making me that demo disc Buzz I enjoy using it. The little menu effects are cool too.

I recently bought an Oppo 103D and the Spears and Munsell video calibration disc. Between calibrating my panel and the darbee processing chip I have kinda caught the video side of the bug. Was in a TV shop looking at the UHD sets today and there was a 65inch LG for like 2400. I am 8 ft from my display so 65 is a decent size for that distance. Bigger better yes but cost is a factor lol! But the picture was just straight unreal! Clearest thing I have ever seen! I'm thinking maybe like 6 months or so

Anyway I have always told myself 5 channel in my small room is enough. That I don't have room for more speakers. And I don't. But if I get little tiny satellite speakers on little swivel mounts then hey I can do it! My first system was a 7 channel Definitive Technology system that included a couple Pro monitor 1000 speakers. Great little speaker honestly. Not for mains for any crazies like us but they would do for many as mains. But as surrounds or heights or wides they would be great. Well I picked up a little Pro monitor 600 set. Gonna add wides and heights and sell the little sub and center. I may toy with a HPF and LPF via mini dsp on the little sub and put near field to see how it would do as a MBM. But I get great bass so most likely it will not stay. I was just thinking I would add it in after Audyssey and set it for like 50hz to 120hz. But these little Pro monitor 600's really are great little tiny satellites and will allow me to get the surround effects out wider and up higher all while keeping cost very low and quality still pretty decent.

For sale: Ben Q W7000 Projector W/four pairs of 3D glasses, Denon 4520 AVR, Definitive Technology PM600 HTIB, Silver Ticket 92" Fixed frame Aluminum PJ Screen. PM for any interests :)
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post #20657 of 30542 Old 06-21-2014, 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Was in a TV shop looking at the UHD sets today and there was a 65inch LG for like 2400. I am 8 ft from my display so 65 is a decent size for that distance. Bigger better yes but cost is a factor lol! But the picture was just straight unreal! Clearest thing I have ever seen! I'm thinking maybe like 6 months or so
Wait for the new Vizio P series (probably August) and R series (maybe by the end of the year). They are both UHD and have full array local dimming. The P "should" be fairly good and the R stands for reference. Typical low Vizio pricing might make them the TV's of the year.
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post #20658 of 30542 Old 06-21-2014, 07:40 AM
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2 Cap S2's in the front and a Power Sound Audio XS30 in the rear. I had a rather large null right down the center of the room and adding the XS30 helped a bunch.
That's pretty funny, I just talked to Tom the other day chit chatting and I asked him about the XS30 for the back of my room to pair up with my dual Triax's. Gotta get the room finished first, but I have a feeling there is going to be a null and the XS30 was a first thought.
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post #20659 of 30542 Old 06-21-2014, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
I was going to use the XS30 in a family room 5.1 right outside the theater and I replaced it with a Velodyne 125 watt something or other I had in the garage. The XS30 is doing a great job in the theater and the Velodyne is fine for what I want it for. For what it's worth, I don't have a man cave, rather, I have a man floor - theater, bar, family room, office, game room, and driving range (not kidding).

Additionally, I've always been a video guy and when I decided to build this new house and have a dedicated theater I first started investigating quality speakers. I've read all the comments about hearing "everything" and what a huge difference speakers can make etc. etc..... This is the first (and last - I'm old) great set of speakers I've ever had and all I can say is that I'm totally floored. Listening to "my" music from the 60's and 70's is an entirely new experience and I'll be forever grateful to all of you on this forum for helping push me over the edge. The action film experience (especially bass) not withstanding, I have a high intensity light installed right over the MLP for reading while listening to music in my totally black theater. The experience is astounding.

Thanks to all of you and Jeff.
Thanks for the post buzz and I'm glad you found speakers that do what you want.

Cheers,

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post #20660 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 02:06 AM
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Recalibrated my system again this weekend for a more balanced sound. Did a auto calibration with the Antimode dual core for the bass. Then ran MCACC. MCACC set my subs -10, trim at +1.0 on the avr. While all my subs dial is pointing at -8. No house curve. In the end I really like the way it sounds. More tight and accurate on the bass side. So my current speakers.... Oh boy, I watched Elysium at -8 MV today. Not my normal listening level. But my speakers, talk about running out of gas!.. I just can't wait to changed them out! Here's the measurement in the end. Didn't take it at reference level though. But rather my normal listening vol when I watch movies.

Attachment 130554

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post #20661 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 07:20 AM
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Recalibrated my system again this weekend for a more balanced sound. Did a auto calibration with the Antimode dual core for the bass. Then ran MCACC. MCACC set my subs -10, trim at +1.0 on the avr. While all my subs dial is pointing at -8. No house curve. In the end I really like the way it sounds. More tight and accurate on the bass side. So my current speakers.... Oh boy, I watched Elysium at -8 MV today. Not my normal listening level. But my speakers, talk about running out of gas!.. I just can't wait to changed them out! Here's the measurement in the end. Didn't take it at reference level though. But rather my normal listening vol when I watch movies.

Attachment 130554

wow those s2's really extend nice and low. Your system with the 215's is going to stellar. Did you decide on amps or our you going to be able to try some out before deciding?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #20662 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
wow those s2's really extend nice and low. Your system with the 215's is going to stellar. Did you decide on amps or our you going to be able to try some out before deciding?
Thanks Lance.. I'm still looking at different amps right now. And if I don't decide by then, still gonna use some of my friends amps to try out. But the D-Sonic M3-5400 is starting to look appealing. Just not to much write up or reviews on it.
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post #20663 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 12:29 PM
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Recalibrated my system again this weekend for a more balanced sound. Did a auto calibration with the Antimode dual core for the bass. Then ran MCACC. MCACC set my subs -10, trim at +1.0 on the avr. While all my subs dial is pointing at -8. No house curve. In the end I really like the way it sounds. More tight and accurate on the bass side. So my current speakers.... Oh boy, I watched Elysium at -8 MV today. Not my normal listening level. But my speakers, talk about running out of gas!.. I just can't wait to changed them out! Here's the measurement in the end. Didn't take it at reference level though. But rather my normal listening vol when I watch movies.

Attachment 130554
since you mentioned dualcore, what do you think of it?
I'm thinking of running my prepro outs into my 2x4 mini dsp, 1 of each channel into the dualcore, then out to my S2s. I needed to get 2 signals out for my buttkickers. Wonder if thats too much crap inbetween before the signal hits my S2s
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post #20664 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post
since you mentioned dualcore, what do you think of it?
I'm thinking of running my prepro outs into my 2x4 mini dsp, 1 of each channel into the dualcore, then out to my S2s. I needed to get 2 signals out for my buttkickers. Wonder if thats too much crap inbetween before the signal hits my S2s
No regrets whatsoever.. Very powerful tool. At first it seem complicated with the features. But after playing with it more it's very easy to use. I'm actually thinking of getting another for my speakers when I get them. Does the butt kickers have RCA or XLR input? Because with the dual core, if your not running stereo subs, then all you need is one signal in and you have active 2 XLR outs and 2 RCA outs.
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post #20665 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post
since you mentioned dualcore, what do you think of it?
I'm thinking of running my prepro outs into my 2x4 mini dsp, 1 of each channel into the dualcore, then out to my S2s. I needed to get 2 signals out for my buttkickers. Wonder if thats too much crap inbetween before the signal hits my S2s
Not to sure if it will work as I don't have experience with buttkickers but...Iuse an Open DRC-AN from Mini DSP. A little more than the 2x4 (less ch out I know) but you get a chassis for it, it has XLR in and out, and just looks nicer and feels better and more solid with the XLR's. I mainly wasn't too fond of doing all my own little Phoenix connectors. But I currently run one of each of it's two channels to each subversive. But I link them back up on the software user interface anyway on my Mac when I go to EQ them. So I could just do a Y splitter to each Submersive since they work together anyway and would have another channel opened up you could split to your buttkickers? Just a thought The actual use of it is really nice! Easy and having a low shelf filter to run a house curve is very nice! I watched the "Pulse" server room for the first time last night. After about the 7-8 wave rattling the house my wife said, "you better be careful!"

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post #20666 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 06:24 PM
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Looking for advice on how to ship my Triple 12LF's. I don't have the original boxes. Pretty sure FedEx ground would ship them, but how do I package them??
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post #20667 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 07:08 PM
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Looking for advice on how to ship my Triple 12LF's. I don't have the original boxes. Pretty sure FedEx ground would ship them, but how do I package them??
Why not do them as a crate and ship them through a cartage carrier?
You could get a pallet, a sheet or two of OSB and some 2x4's. And a few pieces of the 2" thick pink isolation foam from Home Depot.
That's how I would do it if I didn't have the original boxes.
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post #20668 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 08:53 PM
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Contact Jeff and get 2 empty boxes shipped out to you!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #20669 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 09:40 PM
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Looking for advice on how to ship my Triple 12LF's. I don't have the original boxes. Pretty sure FedEx ground would ship them, but how do I package them??
I would highly recommend shipping them on a pallet and through YRC freight. Find a friend or family member who has any kind of account with a freight company and you can ship through them to get the massively discounted rate. For example I shipped a performance Engine to South Beach Miami 2 years ago. Normal cost was going to be 900 bucks but only like 270 after my work discount. I just shipped the Sherbourn PA 7350 and Denon 3313ci along with some cables to Atlanta for 122.04. A plus is they are not rolled all the way. And you just package them super good with like 1 ft of padding and lots of "DO NOT STACK" signs and you are good to go!

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post #20670 of 30542 Old 06-22-2014, 10:06 PM
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