Official JTR speaker thread - Page 699 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20941 of 31063 Old 07-02-2014, 11:39 PM
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I'm gonna be honest. Phantom centers generally suck.
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post #20942 of 31063 Old 07-02-2014, 11:44 PM
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What's up with the avs clock, I have it set to central standard time but it's an hour off.

Anyway, what are you doing still up? I'm impressed.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of phantom centers usually... but I'm doing it right now watching a concert recorded on Palladia and it works. In fact it's much better without a center. For tv/movies I have to have a center.
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post #20943 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
OK, time for a brief break from all the 215's (well-deserved, I'm sure) craziness... and yes, that's envy. If I only had the $$

Just pulled the trigger on 3 Triple 12HTs. Didn't have the funds for the Noesis 212s, let alone the 215s, and Jeff recommended the Triple 12s over the Noesis 228s because it's a 3 way speaker (better midrange) and has higher sensitivity. Now I just have to wait for delivery, then for the house to be finished so they have a nice place to go. I'm sure I'll hook them up before then though.

I'll be adding 4 surrounds and more subs down the road, but wanted to start off with a strong front stage. I currently have an SVS PB12-NSD in storage until the house is built.
Congrats man! And welcome to the JTR family. 3 posts since joining in 2006. Really? That won't do...we expect much more feedback of your system once you get that house done.
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post #20944 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
What's up with the avs clock, I have it set to central standard time but it's an hour off.

Anyway, what are you doing still up? I'm impressed.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of phantom centers usually... but I'm doing it right now watching a concert recorded on Palladia and it works. In fact it's much better without a center. For tv/movies I have to have a center.

Phantom center is not for everyone. But if it is not as pin point as the dedicated center it is possibly due to ever so slight setup misalignment. We are talking 1/16 of an inch or less type misalignments.

I am super , and do I mean "super" anal about setup.

I use self leveling laser levels to make sure the "height" of all drivers in the left and right speaker are exactly the same.

I make sure the tilt front to back are exactly the same on both speakers

I make sure the cabinet is in perfect virtual alignment on both speakers

I make 110% sure the distance from my ear(s) to each tweeter is exactly the same

You usually can get just as pinpoint of an image in phantom as a dedicated center if you do all of the above.

In your pictures I see the 215RT's on carpet sliders, that alone could so slightly change the height of the left vs right speaker...

Plus not all basement floors are perfectly level. All the above come into play when looking for "perfect" phantom center.

If all of the above are not true of your current setup, take the 3 hours or so to be super anal and let me know what you think then... you might be glad you did.

*Now I don't know if it is also because I have a perfectly symmetrical room that phantom works so well in my room. But it may contribute to the results as the sound bounces around the room the same from both left and right channel and not getting first and secondary reflections at ever so slightly different times.

Last edited by SOWK; 07-03-2014 at 12:45 AM.
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post #20945 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Phantom center is not for everyone. But if it is not as pin point as the dedicated center it is possibly due to ever so slight setup misalignment. We are talking 1/16 of an inch or less type misalignments.

I am super , and do I mean "super" anal about setup.

I use self leveling laser levels to make sure the "height" of all drivers in the left and right speaker are exactly the same.

I make sure the tilt front to back are exactly the same on both speakers

I make sure the cabinet is in perfect virtual alignment on both speakers

I make 110% sure the distance from my ear(s) to each tweeter is exactly the same

You usually can get just as pinpoint of an image in phantom as a dedicated center if you do all of the above.

In your pictures I see the 215RT's on carpet sliders, that alone could so slightly change the height of the left vs right speaker...

Plus not all basement floors are perfectly level. All the above come into play when looking for "perfect" phantom center.

If all of the above are not true of your current setup, take the 3 hours or so to be super anal and let me know what you think then... you might be glad you did.

*Now I don't know if it is also because I have a perfectly symmetrical room that phantom works so well in my room. But it may contribute to the results as the sound bounces around the room the same from both left and right channel and not getting first and secondary reflections at ever so slightly different times.


I haven't used a laser, but with my 212's I did make sure they were the exact same distance from the side walls and front wall and that each corner of the speaker matched up (this is a pain, each little move affects all corners of the speaker obviously)with the other one as far as distances from those walls. I also made sure my LP was exactly in the middle.

I did this for imaging for 2 channel music, I really never considered a phantom center.

I haven't done that yet with the 215's but I will. I used the sliders because I wanted to try out the golden triangle setup, it wasn't for me.
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post #20946 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:59 AM
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I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
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post #20947 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 02:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
You have a date of when yours arrive or completed? Wow! Now I feel left out. Especially since my order was placed on the 29th of April. lol..
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post #20948 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 02:49 AM
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You have a date of when yours arrive or completed? Wow! Now I feel left out. Especially since my order was placed on the 29th of April. lol..
Well that's what Jeff and I hope will happen. If not, then that fine too. I am in no huge rush, I just want the best made 215RT's he can make.

Quality first.

Once these go down to the theater, they will never come back up... Lol.
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post #20949 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 06:17 AM
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I agree with Carp on the phantom center, Usually it may not be idea but it sounds awesome on the 215's. If I didn't like late night viewing with loud vocals, I'd be fine not having a center. I also used to be all about multi-channel surround for music and I pretty much go full 2 channel full range now. The 215's honestly do give you a 3D soundstang, it's simply amazing well the do it.
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post #20950 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 06:22 AM
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kronin--
I just can't believe you will have any disappointment with the sound quality of your new Triple 12s. My new 228HTs keep impressing me every time I turn them on. I really wanted the 212HTs but they were just hard to accept size wise in a living room and they cost so much more.

When you get to surrounds, I can't recommend the 8s enough. I replaced all my surrounds with Slant 8s and find it just incredible how clear and distinct the sound is from them. I hear so much more than the speakers I replaced. They are kind of pricey but I quickly forgot that when I heard how much more content was in the surround channels that I never heard before. I always thought the rear surrounds were a waste as I rarely heard much more that fill noise from them and the wife kept giving me grief for having so many speakers in "her" living room. Well the Slant 8 just keeps impressing me more and more. Even 5.1 movies that are upped to 7 channel by the receiver are now giving me so much better rear panning and improved sound positioning.
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post #20951 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 06:29 AM
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Wonder if Jeff has looked into making a Single or Slant 12?

Wonder if Jeff is following all this Atmos talk as it seems we will need to add a minimum of 4 ceiling speakers for this to work. I could install Single 8s flush with the ceiling.
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post #20952 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 06:42 AM
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post #20953 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 07:09 AM
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If anyone is interested in some S8's that are mint condition, i've got a set I'm selling $1400 shipped! Save $600 and they are as good as new!

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post #20954 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
I think Carps enthusiasm is as much related to having a true full range speaker (< >20hz) as it it a testament to the 215RT. I know the LFE needs to be located independent of the main speakers story that is backed by a considerable amount science, but there is an element of cohesiveness to the sound that happens with music on the 215's that is unique (subjectively special ).

I don't know why or how but I certainly felt it during my initial and prolonged (due to recovery from surgery) music listening. The 215RT's have renewed my long dormant interest in music and, they (3 of them) do everything I need for movies too. Some here have more of an appetite for bass than me as I only have dual Orbit Shifter's for reference, I have been missing out on that secret sauce of single digit VLF output that is such a narcotic for those lucky few who have been able to create it in their rooms. In my case, ignorance is bliss and I'm sure many will agree.

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post #20955 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 07:52 AM
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My dual Seaton HP's get down into the single digits, but I feel it won't make or break a system. Sure its nice, but not the end all be all.
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post #20956 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 09:18 AM
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I think Carps enthusiasm is as much related to having a true full range speaker (< >20hz) as it it a testament to the 215RT. I know the LFE needs to be located independent of the main speakers story that is backed by a considerable amount science, but there is an element of cohesiveness to the sound that happens with music on the 215's that is unique (subjectively special ).

I don't know why or how but I certainly felt it during my initial and prolonged (due to recovery from surgery) music listening. The 215RT's have renewed my long dormant interest in music and, they (3 of them) do everything I need for movies too. Some here have more of an appetite for bass than me as I only have dual Orbit Shifter's for reference, I have been missing out on that secret sauce of single digit VLF output that is such a narcotic for those lucky few who have been able to create it in their rooms. In my case, ignorance is bliss and I'm sure many will agree.

I tend to be enthusiastic about this stuff in general. Archaea said that Stitch1 stays pretty low key most of the time but that is not me. This hobby makes me feel like a kid - hmm I feel like that a lot of the time anyway - and sometimes my excitement gets the better of me.

That said, I don't think that's the case with the 215's. I was trying to tone down my impressions initially (haha, I think that's over now...) in the posts I've made and the PM's I've sent about the 215's because I know I have a tendency to over state things. I also don't think it's just a full range thing. I have tried the 215's crossed at 80hz and 50hz and set to small and the crazy imaging/crytal - and i mean crystal - clear sound/consistent sound throughout the room/massive soundstage/etc. is still all there and all improved from the 212's.

I'm not ripping the 212's either. I absolutely loved those speakers and spent countless hours listening to 2 channel music. They are awesome - and get this - I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's to match up with them!!!!! That's huge. I don't know if the 212's are under rated in their sensitivity or the 215 are over rated but it's a massive difference. My center channel is set to -12 and my 215's are set to -1. My 212 mains were set to -12 just like the center. I'm not upset about the sensitivity difference, it's just how it is when you have a full range tower that truly goes to below 18hz - something has to give.

So, clearly the 212's have a massive advantage for someone who has a well treated theater in a large space. In my room the inuke 3000 starts to clip right at reference with the bass ran flat on the 215's. When I had the 212's hooked up to the inuke I don't even know when it would begin to clip because it never came close.

Shoot, I haven't even tried a blu-ray movie yet (or even on of my movie demo disks) just tv and movies on directv - so I really don't even know yet what I think of them for movies compared the the 212's.
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post #20957 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 09:44 AM
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Wonder if Jeff has looked into making a Single or Slant 12?

Wonder if Jeff is following all this Atmos talk as it seems we will need to add a minimum of 4 ceiling speakers for this to work. I could install Single 8s flush with the ceiling.
I would be interested in something like this....even a slanted 10 would be nice.
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post #20958 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I tend to be enthusiastic about this stuff in general. Archaea said that Stitch1 stays pretty low key most of the time but that is not me. This hobby makes me feel like a kid - hmm I feel like that a lot of the time anyway - and sometimes my excitement gets the better of me.

That said, I don't think that's the case with the 215's. I was trying to tone down my impressions initially (haha, I think that's over now...) in the posts I've made and the PM's I've sent about the 215's because I know I have a tendency to over state things. I also don't think it's just a full range thing. I have tried the 215's crossed at 80hz and 50hz and set to small and the crazy imaging/crytal - and i mean crystal - clear sound/consistent sound throughout the room/massive soundstage/etc. is still all there and all improved from the 212's.

I'm not ripping the 212's either. I absolutely loved those speakers and spent countless hours listening to 2 channel music. They are awesome - and get this - I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's to match up with them!!!!! That's huge. I don't know if the 212's are under rated in their sensitivity or the 215 are over rated but it's a massive difference. My center channel is set to -12 and my 215's are set to -1. My 212 mains were set to -12 just like the center. I'm not upset about the sensitivity difference, it's just how it is when you have a full range tower that truly goes to below 18hz - something has to give.

So, clearly the 212's have a massive advantage for someone who has a well treated theater in a large space. In my room the inuke 3000 starts to clip right at reference with the bass ran flat on the 215's. When I had the 212's hooked up to the inuke I don't even know when it would begin to clip because it never came close.

Shoot, I haven't even tried a blu-ray movie yet (or even on of my movie demo disks) just tv and movies on directv - so I really don't even know yet what I think of them for movies compared the the 212's.
I like your enthusiasm and maybe I'm a little sensitive to the JTR fan boy stuff so I always try and present a neutral point of view. Honestly, I agree with all of your (and N8's) comments regarding the 215's and have never been happier with a speaker purchase. Having bought much more expensive speakers in the past, I see the value they represent too.

Like the OS's, the size is the major stumbling block for most potential owners but physics dictate that size for that extension ...

Thanks for sharing you enthusiasm and opinions. Always good stuff...

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post #20959 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:00 PM
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Don't worry guys... the 215RT's should be the last speakers we ever need... I told Jeff he is no longer allowed to make a better speaker at this point.
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post #20960 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:06 PM
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Cool, good to know. Beast is also planning on building some surrounds for people to buy too (Beastclops), I heard them at Gorilla's GTG and they were a BIG step up from the volt's IMO - not that I didn't like the volts.
I think the volt's crossover was redone after that get together to add back in some highs.
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post #20961 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:07 PM
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How much better can speakers get? Once you get full range with high quality, low distortion, transparent and accurate drivers what else is there really (other than marketing and exotic enclosures).
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post #20962 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:12 PM
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I have officially joined the 215 club.

My classified has been reopened in the audio gear section.


For Sale> JTR Noesis 212HT's
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post #20963 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:14 PM
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I have officially joined the 215 club.
As in your speakers have arrived to your house?
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post #20964 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:15 PM
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I have officially joined the 215 club.
Congratulations!

What are you doing for the center?
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post #20965 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:18 PM
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Congratulations!

What are you doing for the center?
Thanks, I am going to use the 228 for the time being. I will get this all figured out and look into a custom center.
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post #20966 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:19 PM
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As in your speakers have arrived to your house?
I wish, just made it official and ordered them. Hopefull by the end of the month. Just in time for my grand opening. I guess I should say "unoffical"
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post #20967 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:21 PM
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I wish, just made it official and ordered them. The end of the month. Just in time for my grand opening.
Good deal...

My wait has been brutal. lol.

Should be over soon though.
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post #20968 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:30 PM
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When you get to surrounds, I can't recommend the 8s enough. I replaced all my surrounds with Slant 8s and find it just incredible how clear and distinct the sound is from them.
That's great to hear, Peter.

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Congrats man! And welcome to the JTR family. 3 posts since joining in 2006. Really? That won't do...we expect much more feedback of your system once you get that house done.
Oh, believe me. I plan on it. And thanks!

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If anyone is interested in some S8's that are mint condition, i've got a set I'm selling $1400 shipped! Save $600 and they are as good as new!
Ugh, as if my bank account wasn't hurting enough. PM sent...
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post #20969 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 12:32 PM
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Good deal...

My wait has been brutal. lol.

Should be over soon though.
I bet. Nothing was worse than my Triax's. I waited six months for them puppies. I am sure Raynist can attest to that. It actually works out perfect so I can finish my theater. If I was healthily I would have it done next week, but might be delayed a few weeks now. Sheet rock should be done next week and all I will need is paint, carpet and chairs and 215's
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post #20970 of 31063 Old 07-03-2014, 02:52 PM
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Congrats ReefDvr.

And then I want to say I hate all of you JTR speaker owners. It is because of you that I too just ordered my third set of speakers from JTR. I was completely happy with my 212s and dual orbit shifter set up until you guys started talking about the new 215RTs. Then my little brain started wondering what they sound like? There is absolutely something wrong with you guys. Thanks
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Gear in this thread - 215RT by PriceGrabber.com

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