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carp's Avatar carp 10:35 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
OK, time for a brief break from all the 215's (well-deserved, I'm sure) craziness... and yes, that's envy. If I only had the $$

Just pulled the trigger on 3 Triple 12HTs. Didn't have the funds for the Noesis 212s, let alone the 215s, and Jeff recommended the Triple 12s over the Noesis 228s because it's a 3 way speaker (better midrange) and has higher sensitivity. Now I just have to wait for delivery, then for the house to be finished so they have a nice place to go. I'm sure I'll hook them up before then though.

I'll be adding 4 surrounds and more subs down the road, but wanted to start off with a strong front stage. I currently have an SVS PB12-NSD in storage until the house is built.


Hell yeah!! Nice kronin. Prepare for a kick a$$ sounding home theater!!!

Now comes the hard part, waiting.....

What are you going to use for surrounds?

kronin's Avatar kronin 10:42 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
What are you going to use for surrounds?
Depends on available funds at the time. Ideally, 4 S8s. I'll probably start with Volt 10s though and invest in one or two quality subs first (not sure how my SVS will fit in with anything else yet, so that's TBD). Considering I'm coming from RBH TK-8 in-walls at our old house, I'm sure this is gonna be quite a few steps up.

Those 215s look amazing! I'm super happy for you
carp's Avatar carp 10:46 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
Depends on available funds at the time. Ideally, 4 S8s. I'll probably start with Volt 10s though and invest in one or two quality subs first (not sure how my SVS will fit in with anything else yet, so that's TBD). Considering I'm coming from RBH TK-8 in-walls at our old house, I'm sure this is gonna be quite a few steps up.

Those 215s look amazing! I'm super happy for you
thanks man


I'm in the same boat as you, I need to replace my surrounds. It's going to be awhile but when I do save up it will be so tough not to buy the single 8's with the slim 7 inch profile. It's hard to believe how great they sound for how small they are.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 10:55 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
thanks man


I'm in the same boat as you, I need to replace my surrounds. It's going to be awhile but when I do save up it will be so tough not to buy the single 8's with the slim 7 inch profile. It's hard to believe how great they sound for how small they are.
I think Erich is going to have his high end 8" coax ready for sale really soon, I know that's one that I have my eye on because I think at the very least you'll be able to get two of them for the price of a single S8.
carp's Avatar carp 10:57 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I think Erich is going to have his high end 8" coax ready for sale really soon, I know that's one that I have my eye on because I think at the very least you'll be able to get two of them for the price of a single S8.

Cool, good to know. Beast is also planning on building some surrounds for people to buy too (Beastclops), I heard them at Gorilla's GTG and they were a BIG step up from the volt's IMO - not that I didn't like the volts.
stitch1's Avatar stitch1 11:00 PM 07-02-2014
As a pretty conservative home theater enthusiast myself. I have to say that the 215's just blew me away today. I went over to Carps house to have a quick listen and to kill sometime. I have always liked but not loved the 212's. Personally, I would still choose the 228's over the 212's. Call me crazy. But damn, if the 215's were not the best of the best for stereo music in Carps room. I am not sure I can even describe how much I enjoyed them. Before we started I was telling Carp how I just don't listen to music at home much anymore. If I had the 215's I am not sure I would ever stop. It was amazing to me how well I could hear every minute detail. If I had the money I would have been on the phone with Jeff after leaving Carps house. Instead I called Archaea and told him how crazy I had become.

Sorry to hype up the 215's even more than they already are. These are now the holly grail of speakers for me. Unfortunately, they are not something I would ever buy myself without winning the lottery first. But man, I am super jealous of guys that do.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG 11:02 PM 07-02-2014
Looks good carp! I could get by without subs if I had to but with just the 215's but they lack the impact of my nearfield subs that I love so much because of my crappy long room. For movies though, the 215's are good but to get the levels I want to watch in (when the wife and kid are away) they can't do it (not that I expected them to) but they are still really impressive. Jeff said like 1 cap per speaker, heck I've got 10 caps worth of output and still want more LOL
carp's Avatar carp 11:09 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
As a pretty conservative home theater enthusiast myself. I have to say that the 215's just blew me away today. I went over to Carps house to have a quick listen and to kill sometime. I have always liked but not loved the 212's. Personally, I would still choose the 228's over the 212's. Call me crazy. But damn, if the 215's were not the best of the best for stereo music in Carps room. I am not sure I can even describe how much I enjoyed them. Before we started I was telling Carp how I just don't listen to music at home much anymore. If I had the 215's I am not sure I would ever stop. It was amazing to me how well I could hear every minute detail. If I had the money I would have been on the phone with Jeff after leaving Carps house. Instead I called Archaea and told him how crazy I had become.

Sorry to hype up the 215's even more than they already are. These are now the holly grail of speakers for me. Unfortunately, they are not something I would ever buy myself without winning the lottery first. But man, I am super jealous of guys that do.


You were picking out some great tunes man, even though I wasn't in the sweet spot I was REALLY enjoying that especially since it was almost all new to me.
carp's Avatar carp 11:11 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Looks good carp! I could get by without subs if I had to but with just the 215's but they lack the impact of my nearfield subs that I love so much because of my crappy long room. For movies though, the 215's are good but to get the levels I want to watch in (when the wife and kid are away) they can't do it (not that I expected them to) but they are still really impressive. Jeff said like 1 cap per speaker, heck I've got 10 caps worth of output and still want more LOL

For normal movie watching I would be fine, but if I want to do a demo or want to really crank a scene for myself - yeah the subs are a must.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 11:13 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Cool, good to know. Beast is also planning on building some surrounds for people to buy too (Beastclops), I heard them at Gorilla's GTG and they were a BIG step up from the volt's IMO - not that I didn't like the volts.

Yeah I've talked with beast about his surround build with the Beyma drivers, I'm waiting till Matt finished with the crossovers for them before I decide which to go with.
stitch1's Avatar stitch1 11:26 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
You were picking out some great tunes man, even though I wasn't in the sweet spot I was REALLY enjoying that especially since it was almost all new to me.
Yeah, I could have done that all day. I am really glad you kicked me out when you did. The timing was perfect. Crystal (my wife) asked what I thought about them for movies. I was like movies? MOVIES? talking about movies? Movies? sounding like jim mora talking about playoffs. We never tried any movies clips. But when your music sounds so good who needs movies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk

Skylinestar's Avatar Skylinestar 11:33 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Speaking of that DD, I was thinking of you when reading about phantom centers. I noticed in Dlbeck's theater that you used JRiver/Audiolense to spread a percentage of the surround/rear signal to different speakers. Would you consider that for the fronts at all; .25 of center to left and .25 of center to right? Not a phantom center but having 100% on the center and then having the left and right get a small percentage of the center signal as well. Was wondering if that would be a more encompassing sound or an annoyance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Not DD... but that would be an annoyance as a person's voice would become all encompassing. Think Voice of god type sound.
You do "not" want to have a dedicated center channel and also route that information into the mains. Even at a .25 % ratio.
If you have no center channel it works (AKA Phantom Center), but not with a center channel.
I have never tried it personally, but that's the effect you get when "front wides" take in voice from the front left or front right speaker.
By default, Denon AVR sends a small signal of center channel to the left&right speaker. Not sure about other manufacturers.
carp's Avatar carp 11:35 PM 07-02-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post
Yeah, I could have done that all day. I am really glad you kicked me out when you did. The timing was perfect. Crystal (my wife) asked what I thought about them for movies. I was like movies? MOVIES? talking about movies? Movies? sounding like jim mora talking about playoffs. We never tried any movies clips. But when your music sounds so good who needs movies?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3-eavMSBnk




I told you that you could stay! Just because I had to leave doesn't mean there shouldn't be someone sitting in the sweet spot going deaf.
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 12:33 AM 07-03-2014
Haha. Stich sure was excited about the 215ht when he called me tonight. It was the most riled up I've ever heard him. He's usually pretty low key. He needed to evangelize his desire for those big towers! . I'm looking forward to hearing them in your room carp!
Archaea's Avatar Archaea 12:39 AM 07-03-2014
I'm gonna be honest. Phantom centers generally suck.
carp's Avatar carp 12:44 AM 07-03-2014
What's up with the avs clock, I have it set to central standard time but it's an hour off.

Anyway, what are you doing still up? I'm impressed.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of phantom centers usually... but I'm doing it right now watching a concert recorded on Palladia and it works. In fact it's much better without a center. For tv/movies I have to have a center.
dgage's Avatar dgage 01:02 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
OK, time for a brief break from all the 215's (well-deserved, I'm sure) craziness... and yes, that's envy. If I only had the $$

Just pulled the trigger on 3 Triple 12HTs. Didn't have the funds for the Noesis 212s, let alone the 215s, and Jeff recommended the Triple 12s over the Noesis 228s because it's a 3 way speaker (better midrange) and has higher sensitivity. Now I just have to wait for delivery, then for the house to be finished so they have a nice place to go. I'm sure I'll hook them up before then though.

I'll be adding 4 surrounds and more subs down the road, but wanted to start off with a strong front stage. I currently have an SVS PB12-NSD in storage until the house is built.
Congrats man! And welcome to the JTR family. 3 posts since joining in 2006. Really? That won't do...we expect much more feedback of your system once you get that house done.
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 01:31 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
What's up with the avs clock, I have it set to central standard time but it's an hour off.

Anyway, what are you doing still up? I'm impressed.


Yeah, I'm not a fan of phantom centers usually... but I'm doing it right now watching a concert recorded on Palladia and it works. In fact it's much better without a center. For tv/movies I have to have a center.

Phantom center is not for everyone. But if it is not as pin point as the dedicated center it is possibly due to ever so slight setup misalignment. We are talking 1/16 of an inch or less type misalignments.

I am super , and do I mean "super" anal about setup.

I use self leveling laser levels to make sure the "height" of all drivers in the left and right speaker are exactly the same.

I make sure the tilt front to back are exactly the same on both speakers

I make sure the cabinet is in perfect virtual alignment on both speakers

I make 110% sure the distance from my ear(s) to each tweeter is exactly the same

You usually can get just as pinpoint of an image in phantom as a dedicated center if you do all of the above.

In your pictures I see the 215RT's on carpet sliders, that alone could so slightly change the height of the left vs right speaker...

Plus not all basement floors are perfectly level. All the above come into play when looking for "perfect" phantom center.

If all of the above are not true of your current setup, take the 3 hours or so to be super anal and let me know what you think then... you might be glad you did.

*Now I don't know if it is also because I have a perfectly symmetrical room that phantom works so well in my room. But it may contribute to the results as the sound bounces around the room the same from both left and right channel and not getting first and secondary reflections at ever so slightly different times.
carp's Avatar carp 01:52 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Phantom center is not for everyone. But if it is not as pin point as the dedicated center it is possibly due to ever so slight setup misalignment. We are talking 1/16 of an inch or less type misalignments.

I am super , and do I mean "super" anal about setup.

I use self leveling laser levels to make sure the "height" of all drivers in the left and right speaker are exactly the same.

I make sure the tilt front to back are exactly the same on both speakers

I make sure the cabinet is in perfect virtual alignment on both speakers

I make 110% sure the distance from my ear(s) to each tweeter is exactly the same

You usually can get just as pinpoint of an image in phantom as a dedicated center if you do all of the above.

In your pictures I see the 215RT's on carpet sliders, that alone could so slightly change the height of the left vs right speaker...

Plus not all basement floors are perfectly level. All the above come into play when looking for "perfect" phantom center.

If all of the above are not true of your current setup, take the 3 hours or so to be super anal and let me know what you think then... you might be glad you did.

*Now I don't know if it is also because I have a perfectly symmetrical room that phantom works so well in my room. But it may contribute to the results as the sound bounces around the room the same from both left and right channel and not getting first and secondary reflections at ever so slightly different times.


I haven't used a laser, but with my 212's I did make sure they were the exact same distance from the side walls and front wall and that each corner of the speaker matched up (this is a pain, each little move affects all corners of the speaker obviously)with the other one as far as distances from those walls. I also made sure my LP was exactly in the middle.

I did this for imaging for 2 channel music, I really never considered a phantom center.

I haven't done that yet with the 215's but I will. I used the sliders because I wanted to try out the golden triangle setup, it wasn't for me.
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 01:59 AM 07-03-2014
I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
rhed's Avatar rhed 03:43 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
You have a date of when yours arrive or completed? Wow! Now I feel left out. Especially since my order was placed on the 29th of April. lol..
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 03:49 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
You have a date of when yours arrive or completed? Wow! Now I feel left out. Especially since my order was placed on the 29th of April. lol..
Well that's what Jeff and I hope will happen. If not, then that fine too. I am in no huge rush, I just want the best made 215RT's he can make.

Quality first.

Once these go down to the theater, they will never come back up... Lol.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG 07:17 AM 07-03-2014
I agree with Carp on the phantom center, Usually it may not be idea but it sounds awesome on the 215's. If I didn't like late night viewing with loud vocals, I'd be fine not having a center. I also used to be all about multi-channel surround for music and I pretty much go full 2 channel full range now. The 215's honestly do give you a 3D soundstang, it's simply amazing well the do it.
PeterK's Avatar PeterK 07:22 AM 07-03-2014
kronin--
I just can't believe you will have any disappointment with the sound quality of your new Triple 12s. My new 228HTs keep impressing me every time I turn them on. I really wanted the 212HTs but they were just hard to accept size wise in a living room and they cost so much more.

When you get to surrounds, I can't recommend the 8s enough. I replaced all my surrounds with Slant 8s and find it just incredible how clear and distinct the sound is from them. I hear so much more than the speakers I replaced. They are kind of pricey but I quickly forgot that when I heard how much more content was in the surround channels that I never heard before. I always thought the rear surrounds were a waste as I rarely heard much more that fill noise from them and the wife kept giving me grief for having so many speakers in "her" living room. Well the Slant 8 just keeps impressing me more and more. Even 5.1 movies that are upped to 7 channel by the receiver are now giving me so much better rear panning and improved sound positioning.
PeterK's Avatar PeterK 07:29 AM 07-03-2014
Wonder if Jeff has looked into making a Single or Slant 12?

Wonder if Jeff is following all this Atmos talk as it seems we will need to add a minimum of 4 ceiling speakers for this to work. I could install Single 8s flush with the ceiling.
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 07:42 AM 07-03-2014
I have already brought Atmos to Jeff attention.
N8DOGG's Avatar N8DOGG 08:09 AM 07-03-2014
If anyone is interested in some S8's that are mint condition, i've got a set I'm selling $1400 shipped! Save $600 and they are as good as new!
RMK!'s Avatar RMK! 08:45 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I'm really glad you like them as much as you do in general, I can't wait to get my three come July 15th, but even after that, it will still take me a little to get them all setup "perfectly"

Sometimes I hate my OCD. But in the end it usually pays off.

I love the hype and enthusiasm you have for the 215RT's

And I hope I feel the same.

Although I'm sure you are making a lot of 212HT owners un happy in the process... Lol.
I think Carps enthusiasm is as much related to having a true full range speaker (< >20hz) as it it a testament to the 215RT. I know the LFE needs to be located independent of the main speakers story that is backed by a considerable amount science, but there is an element of cohesiveness to the sound that happens with music on the 215's that is unique (subjectively special ).

I don't know why or how but I certainly felt it during my initial and prolonged (due to recovery from surgery) music listening. The 215RT's have renewed my long dormant interest in music and, they (3 of them) do everything I need for movies too. Some here have more of an appetite for bass than me as I only have dual Orbit Shifter's for reference, I have been missing out on that secret sauce of single digit VLF output that is such a narcotic for those lucky few who have been able to create it in their rooms. In my case, ignorance is bliss and I'm sure many will agree.
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 08:52 AM 07-03-2014
My dual Seaton HP's get down into the single digits, but I feel it won't make or break a system. Sure its nice, but not the end all be all.
carp's Avatar carp 10:18 AM 07-03-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I think Carps enthusiasm is as much related to having a true full range speaker (< >20hz) as it it a testament to the 215RT. I know the LFE needs to be located independent of the main speakers story that is backed by a considerable amount science, but there is an element of cohesiveness to the sound that happens with music on the 215's that is unique (subjectively special ).

I don't know why or how but I certainly felt it during my initial and prolonged (due to recovery from surgery) music listening. The 215RT's have renewed my long dormant interest in music and, they (3 of them) do everything I need for movies too. Some here have more of an appetite for bass than me as I only have dual Orbit Shifter's for reference, I have been missing out on that secret sauce of single digit VLF output that is such a narcotic for those lucky few who have been able to create it in their rooms. In my case, ignorance is bliss and I'm sure many will agree.

I tend to be enthusiastic about this stuff in general. Archaea said that Stitch1 stays pretty low key most of the time but that is not me. This hobby makes me feel like a kid - hmm I feel like that a lot of the time anyway - and sometimes my excitement gets the better of me.

That said, I don't think that's the case with the 215's. I was trying to tone down my impressions initially (haha, I think that's over now...) in the posts I've made and the PM's I've sent about the 215's because I know I have a tendency to over state things. I also don't think it's just a full range thing. I have tried the 215's crossed at 80hz and 50hz and set to small and the crazy imaging/crytal - and i mean crystal - clear sound/consistent sound throughout the room/massive soundstage/etc. is still all there and all improved from the 212's.

I'm not ripping the 212's either. I absolutely loved those speakers and spent countless hours listening to 2 channel music. They are awesome - and get this - I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's to match up with them!!!!! That's huge. I don't know if the 212's are under rated in their sensitivity or the 215 are over rated but it's a massive difference. My center channel is set to -12 and my 215's are set to -1. My 212 mains were set to -12 just like the center. I'm not upset about the sensitivity difference, it's just how it is when you have a full range tower that truly goes to below 18hz - something has to give.

So, clearly the 212's have a massive advantage for someone who has a well treated theater in a large space. In my room the inuke 3000 starts to clip right at reference with the bass ran flat on the 215's. When I had the 212's hooked up to the inuke I don't even know when it would begin to clip because it never came close.

Shoot, I haven't even tried a blu-ray movie yet (or even on of my movie demo disks) just tv and movies on directv - so I really don't even know yet what I think of them for movies compared the the 212's.
Tags: 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
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