Official JTR speaker thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 21218 Old 09-10-2009, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MKtheater View Post

Jedirun, you can build an AT screen for cheap. Mine was about $250 total with black velvet borders all the way around. The next step up is about $400 more(more expensive material). My 1080P looks great for a 130 inch screen.

MKtheater,

I probably should not ask this, but do you have links to the two acoustically transparent materials that you mentioned above?

Thanks,
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post #182 of 21218 Old 09-10-2009, 11:17 PM
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We used Jeff's equipment to dial in the sms-1. .

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post #183 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 06:21 AM
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The T8 is a great center channel, in comparison to the bigfoot I'd say it's pretty close unless you are in a much larger room or need to get a lot louder. The Bigfoot is probably the best part of a rocket system -it's a great center channel and if you are just looking for a reason to upgrade you won't be disappointed by a T8 but it's not as big a difference as the L,R channels would be.

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post #184 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 01:36 PM
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So what should I set my crossover at for my LCR Triple 12LF speakers? I have a Paradigm P2100 sub. I realize my sub is a bit weak compared to the 3 Triple 12LF's I have so the JTR's may have to carry a bit more bass? I like a lot of punch and want that concert feel (I know new subs would help but that is coming later).

--JK
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post #185 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

So what should I set my crossover at for my LCR Triple 12LF speakers? I have a Paradigm P2100 sub. I realize my sub is a bit weak compared to the 3 Triple 12LF's I have so the JTR's may have to carry a bit more bass? I like a lot of punch and want that concert feel (I know new subs would help but that is coming later).

--JK

What did your Onkyo select when you ran Audyssey? My guess is that you should set them around 60 Hz. That will relieve your sub of a lot of the work.
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post #186 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:16 PM
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Thanks MKtheater, Tom and gpmbc for the advice. I found a pro music shop a few miles from my house and picked up some of the MoPads.



I don't know for sure how much it has changed the sound, but they look pretty cool. I will have to do some AB testing.

I know I do not have one of the nicer theaters out there, but I am so happy with my sound right now, I wouldn't change a thing. Music sounds so good right now, it is like I am listening to many songs for the first time. Every time I crank up the speakers, I am grinning ear to ear.
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post #187 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:20 PM
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Nice! I see a set of ION's to the right. I love mine.

My Dual 18" LLT subs 120dB down to 10hz

 

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post #188 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Nice! I see a set of ION's to the right. I love mine.

Yeah, there is no comparison between the ION's and the ones that came with the game.
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post #189 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Yeah, there is no comparison between the ION's and the ones that came with the game.

But then you start modding the ion's and it never stops! Nothing better than RB+JTR

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post #190 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post

So what should I set my crossover at for my LCR Triple 12LF speakers? I have a Paradigm P2100 sub. I realize my sub is a bit weak compared to the 3 Triple 12LF's I have so the JTR's may have to carry a bit more bass? I like a lot of punch and want that concert feel (I know new subs would help but that is coming later).

--JK

The concert feel your lookin for resides more in the midbass region. Triple 12LFs are -3db at 50hz and drop off quickly as that's how they were designed. Crossing over lower to pick up the slack of the Paradigm is only gonna work to an extent. You can run the 12LFs full range and you wont' hear anything going clank as they just get quieter(at the lower registers) gracefully but the sweet spot IMO is 50 and up. I run mine at 60 and don't know of anyone running lower than 50. Your system will only be as good as it's weakest link. Sooner or later you'll have to address the sub especially if you already know it to be the limiting factor. Once you have everything proportioned you will put on whatever source you want and not have to run for the volume knob during those demanding scenes that make speakers/subs cry uncle.
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post #191 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXPorlando View Post

Jedirun....Have you tryed setting your center channel on it's side even with the left and right? You should notice a nice diffrents but I would suggest puting the coax back in the middle if you try this. I'm guessing you tryed a/b between coax positions? I noticed you moved yours to the top. What diffrence did you notice?

Scott

I have not tried the center channel horizontal. I figured even though the Triple do well on their sides, I had the room to run them vertically, so I did. I moved the coaxials to the top so they would be a close to the screen as possible, now MKtheater has me thinking about upgrading to an AT screen since the cost is not too high. I will try the center on its side to see if I can tell a difference.

If I go AT, I will put the coaxials back in the center at ear height.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

But then you start modding the ion's and it never stops! Nothing better than RB+JTR

I have resisted the urge to modify the ION's so far. I am hoping to try RB with my JTR's tomorrow. I can't wait
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post #192 of 21218 Old 09-11-2009, 03:16 PM
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Jedirun I have done the horizontal/vertical switch and I couldn't tell a difference at all ymmv. The nature of the coaxial prevents lobing so as long as the tweeter is as close to ear height as possible you will be all good. Mine are 36" off the ground, angled down slightly and you can sit in a chair, on the ground, or stand and their is never a cliff dive in frequency response like I have experienced with a lot of speakers.
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post #193 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 12:08 AM
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Sup Scott, I have 888s L & R with a Triple 12LF center. Awaiting the new Growlers to join up front with the 888s. My EQ (Marchand Bassis)is getting soldered together now, excited to see what that brings to the table. No charts regarding the fall off at 50 just my ears after trying 40hz and fullrange as well on the JTR site +/-3db 50-20khz. In regards to gettin midbass at 40hz it's usually considered higher up in frequency.
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post #194 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 11:04 AM
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Cool greg. Your system is going to rock your block That should work out nice haveing complete control over your spekers. What are you going to use to power the growlers? Have you desided what your going to do with the low end yet? Did you get your bass traps in?

Glad to hear all is well......Scott
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post #195 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpmbc View Post

Sup Scott, I have 888s L & R with a Triple 12LF center. Awaiting the new Growlers to join up front with the 888s. My EQ (Marchand Bassis)is getting soldered together now, excited to see what that brings to the table. No charts regarding the fall off at 50 just my ears after trying 40hz and fullrange as well on the JTR site +/-3db 50-20khz. In regards to gettin midbass at 40hz it's usually considered higher up in frequency.

I am considering two 8's and a 12 for center myself. Do they blend together well?
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post #196 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 02:35 PM
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Got things set up. Was suppose to go to the BMW Championship but felt sick so I set up the JTR's instead. Yes the center channel has a satin finish, I believe it was Jeff's prototype 2010. Finish is awesome, a flat finish with a little sheen to it. Waiting for Jeff to fab some screens for the L/R.
Decided to set things up in the basement instead of the living room with the KURO, worried the neighbors might complain about noise.





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post #197 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 04:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

Thanks MKtheater, Tom and gpmbc for the advice. I found a pro music shop a few miles from my house and picked up some of the MoPads.



I don't know for sure how much it has changed the sound, but they look pretty cool. I will have to do some AB testing.

I know I do not have one of the nicer theaters out there, but I am so happy with my sound right now, I wouldn't change a thing. Music sounds so good right now, it is like I am listening to many songs for the first time. Every time I crank up the speakers, I am grinning ear to ear.


Hey, that looks great! It looks like you put some angle on the Mo Pads.
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post #198 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinktri View Post

Got things set up. Was suppose to go to the BMW Championship but felt sick so I set up the JTR's instead. Yes the center channel has a satin finish, I believe it was Jeff's prototype 2010. Finish is awesome, a flat finish with a little sheen to it. Waiting for Jeff to fab some screens for the L/R.
Decided to set things up in the basement instead of the living room with the KURO, worried the neighbors might complain about noise.






Pinktri, nice setup. I like how you mounted the center. You could you some Mo Pads for the left and right speakers to isolate them from the cabinet surface. I swear I do not work for Auralex!
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post #199 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedirun View Post

I have not tried the center channel horizontal. I figured even though the Triple do well on their sides, I had the room to run them vertically, so I did. I moved the coaxials to the top so they would be a close to the screen as possible, now MKtheater has me thinking about upgrading to an AT screen since the cost is not too high. I will try the center on its side to see if I can tell a difference.

If I go AT, I will put the coaxials back in the center at ear height.



I have resisted the urge to modify the ION's so far. I am hoping to try RB with my JTR's tomorrow. I can't wait


I agree with the AT screen. I saw a forum members theater (Zamboniman) and got a taste. I not only saw the screen but, I heard it as well! It's like Mktheater has said before, the entire screen becomes the speaker! I could not even see the weave from 10ft. even in the brightest scenes of the movie and the sound was awesome! So, I am now incorporating an AT screen into my theater build. I have a sample of the Center Stage material from Chris over at Seymour A/V and this stuff looks & sounds excellent for the DIY'er.

http://seymourav.com/store.asp

Half way down the page.

Tom
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post #200 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 06:48 PM
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Can anyone recommend a sub or 2 for around $1000-$1300 range that would keep up with the triple 8's? I'm nearly ready to pull the trigger on 5.1 setup. Last question, how far are you guys lifting the 888's off the floor for proper listening height while seated on a couch? Thanks.
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post #201 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wes k View Post

I am considering two 8's and a 12 for center myself. Do they blend together well?

Hey Wes, the 888s and Triple 12 LF are in the same family so timbre matching is a moot point at least for me and what little difference might be detectable is further addressed by Audyssey.

Scott touched on some points but my reasoning for the mix is that my room offers no support bass wise for my front stage. The wall in back of the speakers is over 20 feet away. Hence the implementation of my Frankenstein set up and my reasoning for the Growlers. The Triple 12LFs have midbass but the kick of the Growlers is on the next level. A pair with 500 watts per side will get me 126db at 40hz without room gain. I'll be running them in stereo with the 888s and integrated with a Behringer DCX2496 covering 40-110hz or so.
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post #202 of 21218 Old 09-12-2009, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXPorlando View Post

Cool greg. Your system is going to rock your block That should work out nice haveing complete control over your spekers. What are you going to use to power the growlers? Have you desided what your going to do with the low end yet? Did you get your bass traps in?

Glad to hear all is well......Scott

Hey Scott, not sure about powering the Growlers yet but I do have a Crown K2 collecting dust if all else fails. For the low end I sourced a fourth Avalanche 18 so I'll be selling my Maelstrom. So 4) sealed AVA18s nearfield and maybe a lil somethin up front to balance it out but that would mean hackin into the wall if I wanna keep things stealth still. No bass traps or room treatments yet but it's on my short list.
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post #203 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXPorlando View Post

I think the KEY to setting cross over points whether it's with the 12s or 8s is to watch the coax/tweeter. If that tweeter starts to move more then 2mm you will start to get distortion from the tweeter and need to cross them a little higher untill the coax/tweeter is back to it's recommended max movement of 2mm.

I'm not sure what the cross over network in the speaker is crossing everthing at or at what values are used but it does a good job on keeping the woofers under control even at full range and high volume. You won't be able to get the woofers to clank or bottom out.

The problem with distortion in my oppioion comes in with the coax/tweeter when crossing over lower. It will allow to much low end or midbass to the tweeter and can be over driven if you cross your spekers to low.

Now from what I,ve noticed your cross over point depends on how loud you listen to music or movies. For movies with my triple 12s I can get away with full range if the volume is around -25 to -20 and that is perfect for the wife and kids and you can still talk to each other with out screming and you get a really nice midbass from the triple 12s.

If I turn it up to -15 to -10 I need to set the cross over to 40hz and the tweeter stays within spec of the 2mm movement. Now when I'm jamming music during the day and getting my groove on doing house work I have it loud at -5 and need to bump up the cross over to 50hz to keep the tweeter within spec of it's 2mm movement and have nice clean highs.

This is the results with my setup and yours maybe diffrent. I have onkyo 876 reciever feeding crest 8200 pro amps that pumpes out 1,450 watts to each triple 12 at 4ohms.

So in short my cross over point is determine by the movement in the
12in coax/tweeter. If it's moveing more then 2mm at any given volume the cross over point moves up untill the coax is within spec again

Scott

Am I the only one who heard Twilight Zone theme music in my head while reading this post?

I am intrigued as to how you measure this cone movement and how you determined "in spec".
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post #204 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 10:03 AM
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Can these JTR speakers be powered by a receiver or are seperates the only way to go?
And what are a few good bang for the buck amps out there?
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post #205 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Am I the only one who heard Twilight Zone theme music in my head while reading this post?

I am intrigued as to how you measure this cone movement and how you determined "in spec".

I was wondering if someone would say something. Even if you could use visual cues to determine where to set the cut off, wouldn't you evaluate for overexcursion in the woofers rather than the coaxial?

Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Can these JTR speakers be powered by a receiver or are seperates the only way to go?
And what are a few good bang for the buck amps out there?

I ran my 2010 Triple 8's off of my Onkyo TX-NR905 at reference level and it sounded great. The high sensitivity allows them to do well with a receiver as long as it can handle the 4 ohm load.
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post #206 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Am I the only one who heard Twilight Zone theme music in my head while reading this post?

I am intrigued as to how you measure this cone movement and how you determined "in spec".

I heard it too.
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post #207 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James W. Johnson View Post

Can these JTR speakers be powered by a receiver or are seperates the only way to go?
And what are a few good bang for the buck amps out there?


They certainly can be drive by a receiver if it can take the load - however I always prefer to have headroom on my system and when you are getting speakers this nice - why run them off a simple AVR?

If you are really looking to get the best bang for your buck - pro audio amps are the way to go.

Verum postulo res.
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post #208 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXPorlando View Post

Hey guys...I own triple 12s for front stage and 888s for surrounds and when I try to set audeyysee on my 876 onkyo they set the speakers all over the place.

I was wondering being theses speakers have crossovers in them and jeff has spent a lot of RD to get them just right for optimum performance why is it nessary to set a cross over point in the reciever? Why not feed them full range and let the crossover in the speaker do the work?

I've tryed full range and I get a much fuller warm sound from both the 12s and the 888s but I don't want to damage the speakers being most recommend 50hz cross on the 12s and 80hz for the 888s. Is it safe to run the speakers at full range and use just the cross over in the speakers?

Thanks Scott

The internal crossover intergrades the tweeter to the mid and the mid to the woofers. The crossover in the reciever is to intergrade the woofers to the subwoofers. Tweeters can not play subwoofer frequencies and subwoofers can not play tweeter frequencies so crossovers are need to direct the proper frequencies to the proper drivers.

Running speakers below thier intended opperating range will cause loss in output capability and increased distortion. The recommended crossover points for the Triple 12LF is 50hz and 80hz for the Triple 8.
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post #209 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rafa1552 View Post

Can anyone recommend a sub or 2 for around $1000-$1300 range that would keep up with the triple 8's? I'm nearly ready to pull the trigger on 5.1 setup. Last question, how far are you guys lifting the 888's off the floor for proper listening height while seated on a couch? Thanks.

What? No takers on my question???
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post #210 of 21218 Old 09-13-2009, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post

The internal crossover intergrades the tweeter to the mid and the mid to the woofers. The crossover in the reciever is to intergrade the woofers to the subwoofers. Tweeters can not play subwoofer frequencies and subwoofers can not play tweeter frequencies so crossovers are need to direct the proper frequencies to the proper drivers

Jeff,

Been following this thread and considering these speakers for awhile now.

Question:
Just how good are these passive crossovers? I mean, if I wanted to use active crossovers instead, would I be throwing away a lot of what I'd be paying for?

Louis
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