Official JTR speaker thread - Page 702 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21031 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiniHT View Post
I'm running my S8-HT's (LCR) and S8-LP's (surrounds) all off a Pio SC-35. I watch everything loud, at reference or slightly above and I've honestly never heard the amp clip, had the amp shut down or even heat up much for that matter. I also cross at 80hz and let my dual S2's handle the rest. I don't play a whole lot of music but I did the other week and was playing at +3MV with no problems. In fact, after about 3 hours at those levels everything was just cruising along. Hell, I felt the amp in the AVR and it was just warm to the touch.


I think, IMO, people start running into problems when they have much less efficient surrounds than their JTR mains. Running at those levels with some 89dB surrounds would tax the amp in most AVR's pretty quickly.. not to mention you'll most likely be wearing the tweeters.


What are your listening habits? Movies or music? Is this a 5.1 or 7.1 system?
Primarily this is for movies, currently 5.1, going to 7.1 eventually. Aside from them not clipping, any concerns in the dynamic ranges of action scenes being compressed?


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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
My plan is to run my 4520 with the front two or three driven by an amp and I will let the Denon 4520 handle all the surrounds. I have an XPA 3, but I think I am going to list it and get an Inuke or a Pevey IPR5000 DSP to run the 215's. I would hold off a couple of months as these units are going to drop like hot potatoes when the Atmos AVRs and pre pros hit the streets.
Good plan. The problem I have been having is the annoying speaker hiss that I don't get if connecting the speakers directly into a receiver. I am starting to feel that this is more of an annoyance, but worried that I would be missing something if dropping the amp from the system.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
I am running a 4520 I got a couple months ago. I use all 9 channels of amplification. L&R Triple 8HT's, Center is Triple 8LP, Surrounds are Volt 10's from DIY SG (reasonably sensitive speaker) And then I added 4 little Definitive Technology Pro Monitor 600's for heights and wides. Obviously not the worlds greatest speaker but cheap and decent little tiny things. It was the only option to use these with little swivel mounts. I would have rather gone with more Volt 10's but I am in my LR and that just isn't possible.

Wife and I have been talking with a friend about buying his home. I would get to have a dedicated theater room and would build right with S8's and upgraded mains and such. Possible double car garage conversion, room within a room build! Has a bonus room but garage conversion could allow for higher ceilings and obvious sound containment and everything I want to do from the ground up.
No concerns on missing out on the extra power of an amp like my Outlaw 7500? Nice system!



Thanks all for your responses!
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post #21032 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 03:07 PM
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Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21033 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.
Wow, those would fit my room sooo much better than the standard slant 8's I have.
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post #21034 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.
Very nice Ib..
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post #21035 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by subyguy View Post
Wow, those would fit my room sooo much better than the standard slant 8's I have.
we have a lot of the same speakers! how well do you like the JTR surrounds?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21036 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Very nice Ib..
thanks Rhed. Now I have to look at some mounting options because those brackets I showed you drop the speaker too low for my ceiling height (only 7'8" to begin with). I may just straight mount and cover the brackets with something aesthetically pleasing.

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post #21037 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 04:01 PM
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Do they have the 4 screw key ways on the back for hanging? If they do all you need is to mount a piece of 3/4 plywood to the ceiling same size as the back of the speaker. Cut the plywood to size, install the 4 screws being sure to account for the length of the slot it will slide, drill out a 2 1/2" hole to clear the connectors, paint the edges. I did it that way for my side wall speakers and should work fine in the ceiling if you can hit a stud with a couple big screws. I also used the big drywall screw anchors where there was no stud and it holds fine.
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post #21038 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.

Wondering if you could mount those upside down and bounce them off the ceiling for an Atmos effect? A couple weeks ago they talked about angling your speakers upward to reflect off the ceiling on the Home Theater Geek podcast.
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post #21039 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Do they have the 4 screw key ways on the back for hanging? If they do all you need is to mount a piece of 3/4 plywood to the ceiling same size as the back of the speaker. Cut the plywood to size, install the 4 screws being sure to account for the length of the slot it will slide, drill out a 2 1/2" hole to clear the connectors, paint the edges. I did it that way for my side wall speakers and should work fine in the ceiling if you can hit a stud with a couple big screws. I also used the big drywall screw anchors where there was no stud and it holds fine.
thanks for the advice Peter. Jeff did not put any hardware on the back for these. The good thing about my ceiling is it has 3/4" OSB behind the DW so I can mount these easily from a strength perspective. I may try the way you describe or just use 4 straight metal brackets per speaker. I may just do that if I can find some with some kind of covers for the brackets so it looks more finished.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21040 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Wondering if you could mount those upside down and bounce them off the ceiling for an Atmos effect? A couple weeks ago they talked about angling your speakers upward to reflect off the ceiling on the Home Theater Geek podcast.
that is interesting I will have to read more on that because it might work.


On a related note it will be interesting to see how many speakers are needed with Atmos to really make a difference. In a dedicated theater like yours (and all those surrounds) I am sure it will be unbelieveable. In my set up I am not sure.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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post #21041 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 04:49 PM
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one thing I am finding that my system is excelling at is concert level reproduction of music in both two channel (with subs of course) and multi channel mode. Had some people over the other night and if you leave the remote volume up to them they turn it up to about +10dBFR (or more)on almost every song. I find it is best to let others control the volume to truly understand if the sound is good for them. From my perspective it sounds like the best concert sound I have ever hear and you can quickly go from 100 rows back to 5th row with a quick turn of the MV. Once I got the OS's properly aligned with the mains (and each other) it is astounding the slam they have without muddying up the mids and highs. I removed my near field subs which transferred a lot of bass through your seat but I didn't like that as much. Now it pounds 130+dB of bass through the air into your chest. I think the boundary gain my 212's have in the 80-125hz range is also really helping that slam effect. There is no doubt the sunfire is the weak link but soon it will be dedicated to surround duty only.

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post #21042 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 06:07 PM
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Is this the cheapest audyssey xt32 available?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA2GA0X61199
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post #21043 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by kronin View Post
OK, time for a brief break from all the 215's (well-deserved, I'm sure) craziness... and yes, that's envy. If I only had the $$

Just pulled the trigger on 3 Triple 12HTs. Didn't have the funds for the Noesis 212s, let alone the 215s, and Jeff recommended the Triple 12s over the Noesis 228s because it's a 3 way speaker (better midrange) and has higher sensitivity. Now I just have to wait for delivery, then for the house to be finished so they have a nice place to go. I'm sure I'll hook them up before then though.

I'll be adding 4 surrounds and more subs down the road, but wanted to start off with a strong front stage. I currently have an SVS PB12-NSD in storage until the house is built.
Nice! I've been running T12's as my LRC for last 4yrs and have never looked back. You are going to LOVE them!

Congrats!
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post #21044 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.
Hi Lance, nice what are the dimensions?

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post #21045 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DotJun View Post
Is this the cheapest audyssey xt32 available?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...9SIA2GA0X61199
It probably is Dot. But, beware that the Onkyo 818's version of XT32 does not include SubEQ HT for setting up filters for dual subs based on their combined response. There would be no point as the 818 is not a true ".2" - it sends the same signal to both sub output jacks via an internal y-splitter.

Not an issue if you run a single sub or totally symmetrical duals. Otherwise, not ideal.
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post #21046 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Hi Lance, nice what are the dimensions?
Hi Rob, I'll measure them tmrw don't remember off the top of my head. If I remember correctly Jeff planned on keeping the internal volume the same but I'll check and get back to you.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21047 of 31063 Old 07-06-2014, 09:35 PM
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Very nice Ib..
Rhed I forgot to mention I saw your rear speakers in the shop when I picked mine up. They are looking good.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21048 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 12:37 AM
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Rhed I forgot to mention I saw your rear speakers in the shop when I picked mine up. They are looking good.
Thanks Ibrown.. That's great news..
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post #21049 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 05:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
It probably is Dot. But, beware that the Onkyo 818's version of XT32 does not include SubEQ HT for setting up filters for dual subs based on their combined response. There would be no point as the 818 is not a true ".2" - it sends the same signal to both sub output jacks via an internal y-splitter.



Not an issue if you run a single sub or totally symmetrical duals. Otherwise, not ideal.

Thank you for the info. Would this still matter if I run a minidsp?
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post #21050 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Wondering if you could mount those upside down and bounce them off the ceiling for an Atmos effect? A couple weeks ago they talked about angling your speakers upward to reflect off the ceiling on the Home Theater Geek podcast.
You have given me an idea . I've never been happy with my surround back mounting as they fire over the heads of the back row. Turning them 180° will have them firing into the crown molding (natural diffuser) and ceiling and thereby create a nice dispersion effect of the surround back channel information. Then, if I get an ATMOS processor I can add a pair of in-ceiling JTR's.

I'm going to change them tonight.


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Last edited by RMK!; 07-07-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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post #21051 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 08:19 AM
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Speaking of harsh highs, I posted this in another thread. I'm sure many of you know this already but just in case:



"I have found that perceived harsh highs are NOT up high where many people think they are .
For me harsh highs are if there is a peak roughly between 2khz and 4khz.

Even 8khz - 10khz boosted does not sound harsh, it sounds more shimmery. 12-15 khz and up boosted seems to add an "airy" sound.

I think if you bring down the eq a couple of db's between 2khz and 4khz you will get rid of any perceived harshness when you crank it up to reference."



Anyway, I've tinkered around a lot with EQ over the years and this ^ is what I have found to be true for my ears.
Agreed. It is very similar to what some experience on the very bottom end of the spectrum, below 20hz. Often times you think you are hearing much lower lows, and higher highs than you really are. 20khz is VERY high, 16khz, is still an amazingly high freq, and instrumental notes that reach that high are few and far between in production. Same thing with those sub 10hz content things

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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here are a few shot of some new custom Slant 8's. These will be mounted on the ceiling and I wanted the dimensions to be a little wider with less depth coming down from the ceiling. Probably get them hooked up tomorrow. I finally have surrounds that can keep up.
I will be interested in the dimensions as well. the depth off the wall at the bottom looks perfect for how i want to redesign my side surround boxes.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)


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post #21052 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
You have given me an idea . I've never been happy with my surround back mounting as they fire over the heads of the back row. Turning them 180° will have them firing into the crown molding (natural diffuser) and ceiling and thereby create a nice dispersion effect of the surround back channel information. Then, if I get an ATMOS processor I can add a pair of in-ceiling JTR's.

I'm going to change them tonight.

That is why I am mounting mine on the mounts. They are going to stick out a bit, but that will give me pinpoint precision on aiming them.
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post #21053 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 02:19 PM
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That is why I am mounting mine on the mounts. They are going to stick out a bit, but that will give me pinpoint precision on aiming them.
Although I am doing this primarily to prepare for Dolby Atmos, I think I may achieve better surround with standard 7.1 Dolby or DTS surround formats with this setup. It is an easy change and worth a try ...

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post #21054 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 02:54 PM
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RMK and Beast, I think you were both interested in the dimensions of the slant 8's I recently picked up. the base is 14x14in, the back depth is 8in and after about 4.5 in it starts to taper and ends at 2.5in deep. I think the angle is still about 30 degrees. Just got them hooked up today and they sound great. I decided to start with a more traditional configuration and get to know how that sounds before trying the "atmos" ceiling bounce.
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #21055 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 03:02 PM
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RMK and Beast, I think you were both interested in the dimensions of the slant 8's I recently picked up. the base is 14x14in, the back depth is 8in and after about 4.5 in it starts to taper and ends at 2.5in deep. I think the angle is still about 30 degrees. Just got them hooked up today and they sound great. I decided to start with a more traditional configuration and get to know how that sounds before trying the "atmos" ceiling bounce.
Thanks Lance, those are a nice size and I think they might make better side surrounds for high wall placement than the std Slanted 8's. Are you running 5.1?

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post #21056 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 03:07 PM
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^^ yes only 5.1 at this point. My next investments are likely to be a new balanced pre pro and then next year a better projector. Not sure about all this atmos stuff for my set up. Nothing is impossible but adding more speakers to the ceiling would be a lot of work. What do you think atmos will deliver for home theater?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21057 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 03:08 PM
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I guess I mean to ask to you think it will be noticeable without a major investment in more speakers?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #21058 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Although I am doing this primarily to prepare for Dolby Atmos, I think I may achieve better surround with standard 7.1 Dolby or DTS surround formats with this setup. It is an easy change and worth a try ...
I mounted my lv boxes in the ceiling so I can switch to in ceiling speakers quickly or mount speakers on the ceiling. It was the best I could come up with not having a layout. Glad it was announced while I was doing my wiring.
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post #21059 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 04:30 PM
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Time to focus on what a good set of surrounds can bring to the table. Since you already know what the EDs have to offer anything short of the S8 may end in disappointment although Beast's design may prove worthy.
Matt has one of the beymas, and we are just waiting for the new v2 DATS stuff to come out from PE at this point. Once all that happens, it should be a pretty quick to finish product. I do want to redo the boxes at some point, and for the side surrounds I really like how Lbrown's modified S8's look and would be something I would consider following. The box they are in now is 13" deep at the top, and around 8" at the bottom IIRC, might be less. The angle isn't quite enough for the sides, but almost perfect for the rears.



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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
I guess I mean to ask to you think it will be noticeable without a major investment in more speakers?
Not for a while IMO. First you have content that needs to come out, heck, they just barely are getting things out in full 7.1 at this point. Second, the AVR's and pre's need to get the computing power up to really do a full implementation of atmos. Third, DTS still doesn't have anything in AVR's at this point and I for one would wait until both formats are available. having a pre (8801) right now, and just dropping on that 7 channel Dsonic (which I LOVE), I don't want to think about amplifying more channels right now. Regardless, things should shake out over the next year or so, and I will sit casually by as they do I am sure even the early adopters will have an improved experience for sure, but my guess is they will continue to refine the processing and implementation over the next little while.
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Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread
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post #21060 of 31063 Old 07-07-2014, 04:57 PM
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I'll be waiting until at least next xmas before getting a new processor for most of the reason Beast has talked about.
That and I've been throwing money at my new GT500 like mad and will be broke until then hahahaha!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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