Official JTR speaker thread - Page 706 - AVS Forum
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post #21151 of 21180 Old Today, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I know how I am whenever somebody gets new speakers....all I want to see is pictures of them out of the box, so here you go!

First of all, these were packed perfectly and I like how Jeff packs them with no boxes....smart move. Makes it harder to sell them used.

My brother-in-law, buddy and myself just finished getting these into my room. It brought to light how out of shape I am because if it weren't for the the third person, I don't think I would had gotten all three in the room. The RT's went first and the RM was like a "feather"....

These pictures are with my wife's camera off her phone and my lighting is horrible in that room. Also, the left and right speakers aren't in the correct spots yet. I need to adjust a few things before I slide them into place. We are having some really nasty storms right now, so I am holding off turning everything on due to the lightning. Listening might have to wait until tomorrow morning or later tonight.

The center sitting the stand designed and built by David is my favorite. Both my buddy and BIL thought it looked amazing...
The only pictures I can see are the center channels. The other two are washed out and dark. Lets go, break out Cannon EOS.
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post #21152 of 21180 Old Today, 04:04 PM
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Sorry...that is all you get for now. Lol. I don't own a digital camera anymore.
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post #21153 of 21180 Old Today, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm going to have to get one. 20hz is as low as you can set a HP on the inuke, way too high because it cuts off way too much at 20 and below. Also I have a feeling we were on to something with an analog HP not screwing up the response like a digital HP does.






Did you ever find this out? - curious.





Awesome - so glad you got 'em. Thanks for not getting too ticked at me... Looking forward to your impressions. If you can try them wide for 2 channel listening - wider from each other than you are from them. I probably already said that to you but just in case...
I submit you'd never be able to tell the difference between an 18hz and 20hz hpf in real world music listening. You can borrow my mic2200 to test.

You listen to metal and rock music. There's little below 40hz bass guitar bottom in that genre.

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post #21154 of 21180 Old Today, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I submit you'd never be able to tell the difference between an 18hz and 20hz hpf in real world music listening. You can borrow my mic2200 to test.

You listen to metal and rock music. There's little below 40hz bass guitar bottom in that genre.


When I watch the frequency response in real time on the omnimic software as I turn on and off a HPF at 20hz you really start to lose a lot on the low 20's. Jeff told me to set a HPF at either 16 or 17hz. In my head it will matter.

I don't use a HPF for music. I was thinking about using one so I could run the mains full range + subs for movies.

I listen to all kinds of stuff now, including some heavy bass music. I'm only 90 percent metal...

Nothing bothers the 215's without a HPF except for Bass I Love you so far.
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post #21155 of 21180 Old Today, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Sorry...that is all you get for now. Lol. I don't own a digital camera anymore.
Allright, keep em all for yourself. When my delivery comes in a few weeks, Im not sharing.
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post #21156 of 21180 Old Today, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I'd like to see a current sweep of your FR with the new 215's if you have one laying around Rob, just out of curiosity
Here are a couple of Onmimic short sine sweeps;

Listening Position:


And this is from 1M left front:


Looks like the bass is a little umm hot ...

This is pretty much the way Jeff left it with the Rane EQ. I did bump the LFE channels a few DB today.

Last edited by RMK!; Today at 05:16 PM.
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post #21157 of 21180 Old Today, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

Looks like the bass is a little umm hot ...

This is pretty much the way Jeff left it with the Rane EQ. I did bump the LFE channels a few DB today.
A little hot??? Only 20dB...you can go at least another 10.
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post #21158 of 21180 Old Today, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I'm going to have to get one. 20hz is as low as you can set a HP on the inuke, way too high because it cuts off way too much at 20 and below. Also I have a feeling we were on to something with an analog HP not screwing up the response like a digital HP does.
.
Carp, the iNuke's can be "tricked" to do HPF below 20 Hz. There is a step-by-step guide that has been posted a few times over in the DIY section. I believe LTD02 posted it, I dont have an iNuke so I dont have it bookmarked.

It is a common practice. May save some funds for your new center channel speaker.

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post #21159 of 21180 Old Today, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Allright, keep em all for yourself. When my delivery comes in a few weeks, Im not sharing.
I'll get you some pictures on Friday when I'm over there.
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post #21160 of 21180 Old Today, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
When I watch the frequency response in real time on the omnimic software as I turn on and off a HPF at 20hz you really start to lose a lot on the low 20's. Jeff told me to set a HPF at either 16 or 17hz. In my head it will matter.
What crossover slope? 12db? 24db?
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post #21161 of 21180 Old Today, 06:14 PM
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Very nice!
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post #21162 of 21180 Old Today, 06:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Allright, keep em all for yourself. When my delivery comes in a few weeks, Im not sharing.
Trust me, if I had better pictures everybody would get to see them.
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post #21163 of 21180 Old Today, 06:24 PM
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I'll get you some pictures on Friday when I'm over there.
His camera is much better than mine.
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post #21164 of 21180 Old Today, 07:37 PM
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And with all of the S8 talk, here are my normal Slanted 8s custom mounted in the ceiling for the rears and side surrounds. I guess I need to get a completed picture but I'm not home right now. Suffice it to say they blend in pretty well when painted and with white grill cloth.

Attachment 152362

Attachment 152370

Attachment 152378
David, those look really good you've accomplished the low profile without making them wider. Of course I'm pretty sure you have better carpentry skills than I do.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #21165 of 21180 Old Today, 07:38 PM
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Coach, the 215's look great. How are they sounding?

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21166 of 21180 Old Today, 07:51 PM
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Coach, the 215's look great. How are they sounding?
He wouldn't know...it's been storming and he keeps things unplugged due to some previous run-ins with lightning damage. He promises he'll fire them up tomorrow morning. And then I'll be over there on Friday when we'll finish the treatments for his entire front wall and ceiling in front of the screen. Then I'll help him configure the MiniDSP NanoAVR to integrate the 215RTs...as best I can. I'm not the expert that some are with DSP but I'm working on it. So he'll have some initial impressions tomorrow and hopefully we'll have some room integrated feedback Friday afternoon. I can't wait to listen to them. They look like absolute gigantic monsters in his room. His theater is a normal size bedroom but with the 215RTs, it's tiny now. I laugh at how small the bedroom door looks next to the 215RTs.
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post #21167 of 21180 Old Today, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
Carp, the iNuke's can be "tricked" to do HPF below 20 Hz. There is a step-by-step guide that has been posted a few times over in the DIY section. I believe LTD02 posted it, I dont have an iNuke so I dont have it bookmarked.

It is a common practice. May save some funds for your new center channel speaker.

Really? Very cool I'll look into it!


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What crossover slope? 12db? 24db?
I tried them all, I didn't like the looks of losing all that bass no matter what slope.
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post #21168 of 21180 Old Today, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I tried them all, I didn't like the looks of losing all that bass no matter what slope.
So are you going with any high pass filter at all for your 215RTs to protect them when you get a little happy with the volume?
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post #21169 of 21180 Old Today, 08:13 PM
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Here is the 215's full range no subs. Blue line is no HPF, black line is HPF with the slope that had as little loss in the low 20hz region as possible - also the steepest slope (48db per octave).





Archaea, see what I mean? The visual of that is just brutal I can't lose that much bass!!!
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post #21170 of 21180 Old Today, 08:16 PM
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Try a 48dB/octave drop at 20Hz and cycle through the different filters to find the best one. One isn't bad at all.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
So are you going with any high pass filter at all for your 215RTs to protect them when you get a little happy with the volume?
Right now no, but I won't be cranking Bass I Love You without one. If I'm running subs and mains together with the mains set to full range I can't use a digital HPF anyway because it causes chaos with the frequency response. I will try Archaea's mic2200, in his room setting a HPF on the caps (at 20hz) didn't mess up the frequency response at all when blending with 4 of my sealed SI's.
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post #21172 of 21180 Old Today, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Try a 48dB/octave drop at 20Hz and cycle through the different filters to find the best one. One isn't bad at all.

I did. What you see above is the best one.

Last edited by carp; Today at 08:22 PM.
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post #21173 of 21180 Old Today, 08:21 PM
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When I say the best one, I mean I lose less of above 20hz content than with any of the others. Of course the drop off is much steeper below 20 than say a 6 db slope but those start at a higher frequency.
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post #21174 of 21180 Old Today, 08:26 PM
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Finally..., a 215RM in the field... I've been waiting for this!

I've been checking the JTR website almost weekly for info updates on this speaker... and it is not yet listed on the JTR website. (To be clear, that is not a criticism, just an observation. Heck, I've owned my Seaton Submersives for 5 years... and they've never been "spec'd" on a Seaton Sound website... EVER!!! In fact, there still isn't a true Seaton Sound website... just a few forum webpages. Yet, that hasn't impaired my enjoyment of those very fine subs.)

Nonetheless, I'm still just looking for information, and it would be great to know some of this stuff...

Coach, do you have any info on the spec's of the 215RM? Like...

What is the F3, (-3 dB point?) The cabinet looks quite a bit smaller than the 215RT, but they're sealed, so I assume they roll-off at 12 dB/octave below the F3??? That's fine, but what's the F3??? (This is important to know as it will affect how the speaker works with Bass Management.)
Is the sensitivity the same as the 215RT? How about the power handling and impedance?
Does it use the exact same drivers as the 215? If so, does it also use the same crossovers?
Is the horn shape and dispersion the same as the 215RT?
The 215RT is spec'd to be "horn loaded to 350 Hz." Is this the same for the 215RM?
You have your 215RM deployed horizontally. It's hard to tell from the pic's, but is the horn symmetric, or does it need to be rotated when the speaker is rotated for horizontal deployment?
What are the exterior dimensions of the box?

If you know the answers to some or all of my questions, that's great, and it would be a significant addition to the available data on these speakers. If you don't know, or can't answer some of my questions, please don't feel pressured to find answers. I'll contact JTR for more info.

Any other listening impressions or evaluations you might have would also be appreciated.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #21175 of 21180 Old Today, 08:35 PM
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Don't worry guys... the 215RT's should be the last speakers we ever need... I told Jeff he is no longer allowed to make a better speaker at this point.
The worst 'Psychic' ever! lol!

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Originally Posted by NWCgrad View Post
How much better can speakers get? Once you get full range with high quality, low distortion, transparent and accurate drivers what else is there really (other than marketing and exotic enclosures).
Not much..

But then again, I was recently at an AV show, and there are a couple of small towers (with about 5-6 inch mid bass)... they sound incredible... I would say at lower volumes, and for a lot of music tracks, might even be better than my 212s. I believe it's the 'curve' of the different speakers. For different music, different curves may sound better for one person or another.

At the volume they are playing, the small tower (can't remember the name now, I think it's Singapore made), were so dynamic, and sweet sounding. Midbass was 'popping' way more than my 212s, and the highs were so sweet... there is also something with the 'box'... I don't know what it is, but it seems to radiate 'music' all around. My friends and I kept coming back to that room for more.

However, for an all around, I don't think anything there at the show could beat out my 212s (coupled with subs).

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I tend to be enthusiastic about this stuff in general. Archaea said that Stitch1 stays pretty low key most of the time but that is not me. This hobby makes me feel like a kid - hmm I feel like that a lot of the time anyway - and sometimes my excitement gets the better of me.

That said, I don't think that's the case with the 215's. I was trying to tone down my impressions initially (haha, I think that's over now...) in the posts I've made and the PM's I've sent about the 215's because I know I have a tendency to over state things. I also don't think it's just a full range thing. I have tried the 215's crossed at 80hz and 50hz and set to small and the crazy imaging/crytal - and i mean crystal - clear sound/consistent sound throughout the room/massive soundstage/etc. is still all there and all improved from the 212's.

I'm not ripping the 212's either. I absolutely loved those speakers and spent countless hours listening to 2 channel music. They are awesome - and get this - I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's to match up with them!!!!! That's huge. I don't know if the 212's are under rated in their sensitivity or the 215 are over rated but it's a massive difference. My center channel is set to -12 and my 215's are set to -1. My 212 mains were set to -12 just like the center. I'm not upset about the sensitivity difference, it's just how it is when you have a full range tower that truly goes to below 18hz - something has to give.

So, clearly the 212's have a massive advantage for someone who has a well treated theater in a large space. In my room the inuke 3000 starts to clip right at reference with the bass ran flat on the 215's. When I had the 212's hooked up to the inuke I don't even know when it would begin to clip because it never came close.

Shoot, I haven't even tried a blu-ray movie yet (or even on of my movie demo disks) just tv and movies on directv - so I really don't even know yet what I think of them for movies compared the the 212's.
Carp, thanks for the reviews you have been posting.

I know you're supposed to use dedicated amps to bring out all there is to the 215s. But out of curiosity, how loud can the 215s get with a receiver? (if you have one, please try it out).

The -11 dB compared to the 212s sounds like you'll need about 15X the amp power of the 212s (I am using doubling amp power for 3dB increment).

I am still curious about just how well they play with receivers.


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Originally Posted by ndskurfer View Post
Question for you all - how many of you are using a high end receiver with no external amps with your JTR's? Would something like a Denon 4520CI give it all the power I need? I'm crossing my 8HT-LP mains at 80hz to the subs (JBL 8320's for surrounds).


I have been using an Outlaw 7500 on my 8HT-LP's, but just took it out of the system temporarily to do some testing in another room with some speakers. It got me thinking, do I need the Outlaw 7500 if I were to upgrade my processor to a receiver with Audyssey xt32 (Denon 4520ci or Marantz SR7008)? I have been wanting to upgrade the processor for some time, but still waiting for a xt32 processor in my price range - hasn't come around yet. Also, the Outlaw does have some hiss feedback through my JTR. Maybe I can sell the amp to fund a new receiver and maybe come out ahead after selling the processor and Antimode as well..
I have the 212s and using the onkyo 3009. No issues at all. In fact, at the loudest volume i can tolerate, it's not even close to clipping my receiver. My FP 10,000, which is supposed to power the 212s, is currently collecting dust (until i decide to use it for sub duty if i ever build more subs).

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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
For me carp, it's all the 4-6K range. I don't notice it as much with the 215's but I really had to tame it down on my 212's in my room. In a big open room, they don't seem to get to bad until way beyond reference.

So I pretty much agree with you that it's the lower end that makes me cringe lol. I can take bass up a wazoo though!

On WOTW, when the pod emerges, it's foot flys up from underground and steps on a car and the sound of the glass shattering, is life knives in my ear at reference LOL The S8's at the same volume are the same spl but not painfull at all. The 215's IMO are right in the middle and IMO are about perfect!
YES! Playing at reference or above, it really does cut like a knife. I'll definitely try the equalizer in the Receiver and cut down a bit and see if it makes a difference. (not sure if the equalizer in the receiver works or not, because no matter how i set it, it sounds pretty much the same to me. Do the 'DSP Modes' cancel out the equalizer?)

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You have given me an idea . I've never been happy with my surround back mounting as they fire over the heads of the back row. Turning them 180° will have them firing into the crown molding (natural diffuser) and ceiling and thereby create a nice dispersion effect of the surround back channel information. Then, if I get an ATMOS processor I can add a pair of in-ceiling JTR's.

I'm going to change them tonight.

Interesting option. I would try this but alas, i am planning to turn the a couple feet of the back ceiling into a bass trap. If i face my surrounds up, all the sound would be completely absorbed.. shucks.
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post #21176 of 21180 Old Today, 09:00 PM
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Carp, thanks for the reviews you have been posting.

I know you're supposed to use dedicated amps to bring out all there is to the 215s. But out of curiosity, how loud can the 215s get with a receiver? (if you have one, please try it out).

The -11 dB compared to the 212s sounds like you'll need about 15X the amp power of the 212s (I am using doubling amp power for 3dB increment).

I am still curious about just how well they play with receivers.


I have the 212s and using the onkyo 3009. No issues at all. In fact, at the loudest volume i can tolerate, it's not even close to clipping my receiver. My FP 10,000, which is supposed to power the 212s, is currently collecting dust (until i decide to use it for sub duty if i ever build more subs).

The only time I had them hooked up to my avr was that first night, but I did listen for about 3 or 4 hours. I cranked it pretty loud but at that point there was no bass boost at all since I didn't have any dsp going on.

The other day I was playing a very bass heavy song by Pendulum and the clip lights on the inuke just started to flicker right at reference. Clearly these speaker cannot compete with the 212's when it comes to output.

Still I think they will be plenty for me. I had more output than I could ever handle with just an AVR and the 212's, so if 15 times more watts (1,500) gets me to the same levels I'm more than good to go!
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post #21177 of 21180 Old Today, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
The only time I had them hooked up to my avr was that first night, but I did listen for about 3 or 4 hours. I cranked it pretty loud but at that point there was no bass boost at all since I didn't have any dsp going on.

The other day I was playing a very bass heavy song by Pendulum and the clip lights on the inuke just started to flicker right at reference. Clearly these speaker cannot compete with the 212's when it comes to output.

Still I think they will be plenty for me. I had more output than I could ever handle with just an AVR and the 212's, so if 15 times more watts (1,500) gets me to the same levels I'm more than good to go!
What do you mean by bass boost? You mean, you'll have to use an external DSP to boost the bass before you like the sound of the 215s?
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post #21178 of 21180 Old Today, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
What do you mean by bass boost? You mean, you'll have to use an external DSP to boost the bass before you like the sound of the 215s?

I like boosted bass, always have always will. The 215's sound amazing flat but I like a house curve to the bass. That's what I love about the inuke dsp, you can put in a house curve to boost the bass using the dynamic eq function.

Some songs sound better with a shallower house curve so I'll use a setting like this:




Others I prefer a curve like this, I'll boost up the gain a bit but also change "Quality" to .2 which gives a steeper house curve and affects the mid bass less above 100hz.




Here is what I like for Archaea type music, you can see I tweaked the Quality again and boosted more. If I want more bass boost there is still 15 more db's of boost available, but that hasn't been needed - yet.




So, depending on mood, song, whatever I can instantly tweak the bass how I like it with my laptop (I use remote desktop on my laptop to control my main PC which is where my inuke is connected to the PC in the next room).

Now, every once in awhile I turn it all off:




but that isn't very often, however currently Adele is on Palladia so I have the dsp set to flat. Yes a metal head is listening to Adele but it sounds so good on the 215's I can't help myself.



It's really exactly like I used to do with the subs, constantly tweaking the sub trim depending on song and mood but now it's even better because I can tweak a house curve like I like it.
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post #21179 of 21180 Old Today, 09:29 PM
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Have you played with attack and release yet?

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

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post #21180 of 21180 Old Today, 09:32 PM
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Here is the 215's full range no subs. Blue line is no HPF, black line is HPF with the slope that had as little loss in the low 20hz region as possible - also the steepest slope (48db per octave).





Archaea, see what I mean? The visual of that is just brutal I can't lose that much bass!!!
Recall that below tune in a ported sub is mostly distortion.

You sure you want that?


That black graph looks awesome to me and if I owned the 215HT I'd do exactly that 20hz, 48db/octave hpf and crank the snot out of those speakers without ever having to worry about bottoming out drivers. Except I'd use a dsp 6000. 2000 watts per channel is about perfect.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout

My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint


Last edited by Archaea; Today at 09:37 PM.
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