Official JTR speaker thread - Page 707 - AVS Forum
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post #21181 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Recall that below tune in a ported sub is mostly distortion.

You sure you want that?


That black graph looks awesome to me and if I owned the 215HT I'd do exactly that 20hz, 48db/octave hpf and crank the snot out of those speakers without ever having to worry about bottoming out drivers. Except I'd use a dsp 6000. 2000 watts per channel is about perfect.
Is that how your Caps look after using a HPF?
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post #21182 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 09:54 PM
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Almost bought these tonight, the guy lives a mile away and these chairs were VERY comfortable. I like how they can be set up in whatever configuration you want, I would go with middle love seat and 1 chair on each end.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/fuo/4559747884.html

In the end I couldn't do the bright red (looks much better than picture but still) and shallow cup holders.

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post #21183 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Is that how your Caps look after using a HPF?
Precisely!
My avatar pic is my caps on the inuke dsp 3000. (Which was swapped out since for the more powerful crown xls-5000.)

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post #21184 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Precisely!
My avatar pic is my caps on the inuke dsp 3000. (Which was swapped out since for the more powerful crown xls-5000.)
Hmm ok, gotcha.

Butterworth 48 db's it is, just put it on.

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post #21185 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post
Finally..., a 215RM in the field... I've been waiting for this!

I've been checking the JTR website almost weekly for info updates on this speaker... and it is not yet listed on the JTR website. (To be clear, that is not a criticism, just an observation. Heck, I've owned my Seaton Submersives for 5 years... and they've never been "spec'd" on a Seaton Sound website... EVER!!! In fact, there still isn't a true Seaton Sound website... just a few forum webpages. Yet, that hasn't impaired my enjoyment of those very fine subs.)

Nonetheless, I'm still just looking for information, and it would be great to know some of this stuff...

Coach, do you have any info on the spec's of the 215RM? Like...

What is the F3, (-3 dB point?) The cabinet looks quite a bit smaller than the 215RT, but they're sealed, so I assume they roll-off at 12 dB/octave below the F3??? That's fine, but what's the F3??? (This is important to know as it will affect how the speaker works with Bass Management.)
Is the sensitivity the same as the 215RT? How about the power handling and impedance?
Does it use the exact same drivers as the 215? If so, does it also use the same crossovers?
Is the horn shape and dispersion the same as the 215RT?
The 215RT is spec'd to be "horn loaded to 350 Hz." Is this the same for the 215RM?
You have your 215RM deployed horizontally. It's hard to tell from the pic's, but is the horn symmetric, or does it need to be rotated when the speaker is rotated for horizontal deployment?
What are the exterior dimensions of the box?

If you know the answers to some or all of my questions, that's great, and it would be a significant addition to the available data on these speakers. If you don't know, or can't answer some of my questions, please don't feel pressured to find answers. I'll contact JTR for more info.

Any other listening impressions or evaluations you might have would also be appreciated.

Craig
Here is what I know of the 215RMs, some from the JTR forum and some from Coach. I'm interested in the 215RM as a potential upgrade to my sealed 212s for left and right. I'm looking forward to hearing it and comparing against my 212HT-LP.

215RMs use the same speakers and horn as the 215RT but like you said they are sealed. The cabinet is 48" long, 17" wide, and 18" deep. The speakers play from 24,000 Hz down to 60 Hz. I think the horn is symmetrical and can be turned either way but that is a guess that would need to be verified by Jeff.
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post #21186 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I like boosted bass, always have always will. The 215's sound amazing flat but I like a house curve to the bass. That's what I love about the inuke dsp, you can put in a house curve to boost the bass using the dynamic eq function.

Some songs sound better with a shallower house curve so I'll use a setting like this:




Others I prefer a curve like this, I'll boost up the gain a bit but also change "Quality" to .2 which gives a steeper house curve and affects the mid bass less above 100hz.




Here is what I like for Archaea type music, you can see I tweaked the Quality again and boosted more. If I want more bass boost there is still 15 more db's of boost available, but that hasn't been needed - yet.




So, depending on mood, song, whatever I can instantly tweak the bass how I like it with my laptop (I use remote desktop on my laptop to control my main PC which is where my inuke is connected to the PC in the next room).

Now, every once in awhile I turn it all off:




but that isn't very often, however currently Adele is on Palladia so I have the dsp set to flat. Yes a metal head is listening to Adele but it sounds so good on the 215's I can't help myself.



It's really exactly like I used to do with the subs, constantly tweaking the sub trim depending on song and mood but now it's even better because I can tweak a house curve like I like it.
More options is always fun. I usually run this with my dual Submersives. That is with changing to PGM 2 post XT32 Calibration. Also Audyssey sets at -8.5 for the sub trims and I go to-2.5 for movies and about +4.0 for music. I never listen at reference though. Perhaps my bass could be near reference level lol

BTW how do you get regular pics and not thumbnails?
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post #21187 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 10:40 PM
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I upload everything to photobucket. If there is another way to do it I'd like to know.
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post #21188 of 22816 Old 07-09-2014, 10:49 PM
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I just figured out you can upload the image using an attachment. After you upload the image, right-click on the attachment and copy the URL. Then use the photo button and paste the AVS attachment URL.
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post #21189 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Almost bought these tonight, the guy lives a mile away and these chairs were VERY comfortable. I like how they can be set up in whatever configuration you want, I would go with middle love seat and 1 chair on each end.

http://kansascity.craigslist.org/fuo/4559747884.html

In the end I couldn't do the bright red (looks much better than picture but still) and shallow cup holders.

Yes I switch topics at break-neck speed.
Those seats might work for this Home Theater:

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post #21190 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Here is what I know of the 215RMs, some from the JTR forum and some from Coach. I'm interested in the 215RM as a potential upgrade to my sealed 212s for left and right. I'm looking forward to hearing it and comparing against my 212HT-LP.

215RMs use the same speakers and horn as the 215RT but like you said they are sealed. The cabinet is 48" long, 17" wide, and 18" deep. The speakers play from 24,000 Hz down to 60 Hz. I think the horn is symmetrical and can be turned either way but that is a guess that would need to be verified by Jeff.
I would have to pull my note out from when I initially spoke to Jeff about this back in May. David is right about everything he wrote. Jeff told me he designed the RM to be a smaller footprint to to the RT for those who can't have three of the RT's.

Unlike the 212's, the horn can't be rotated and doesn't need to be. Due to the design, Jeff told me it is the same horizontal as it is vertical. This was the first question I asked when I ordered it since I knew it would have to go on it's side.

We barely got them into the house before a nasty storm came through Knoxville. I had lightning destroy my system about three years ago, so I stay away from using it when lightning is in the area. After I get done with this post, I am heading upstairs to get things fired up.
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post #21191 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Here are a couple of Onmimic short sine sweeps;

Listening Position:


And this is from 1M left front:


Looks like the bass is a little umm hot ...

This is pretty much the way Jeff left it with the Rane EQ. I did bump the LFE channels a few DB today.
I love that. Perfect looking curve IMO. All the more impressive it is coming from a full range speaker!

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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I would have to pull my note out from when I initially spoke to Jeff about this back in May. David is right about everything he wrote. Jeff told me he designed the RM to be a smaller footprint to to the RT for those who can't have three of the RT's.

Unlike the 212's, the horn can't be rotated and doesn't need to be. Due to the design, Jeff told me it is the same horizontal as it is vertical. This was the first question I asked when I ordered it since I knew it would have to go on it's side.

We barely got them into the house before a nasty storm came through Knoxville. I had lightning destroy my system about three years ago, so I stay away from using it when lightning is in the area. After I get done with this post, I am heading upstairs to get things fired up.
It's been almost 3 hours, what's the deal?

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post #21192 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I love that. Perfect looking curve IMO. All the more impressive it is coming from a full range speaker
Thanks, it sounds great too ...

HToM

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post #21193 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 03:12 PM
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Here we go....

I just hooked up the CV 5000 to the 215's so I can compare with the inuke 3000. I'll post my impressions as soon as I have some.
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post #21194 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 03:21 PM
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1800 watts per channel at 4ohm on the CV-5000 as compared to 700ish watts per channel on the iNuke 3000 at 4ohm.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #21195 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I love that. Perfect looking curve IMO. All the more impressive it is coming from a full range speaker!



It's been almost 3 hours, what's the deal?
Sorry about the delay. Had to get several things done today so I put off speaker listening a little longer.

My first listening session consisted of me simply turning my system on and leaving the settings the same as they were when I had my Noesis 212HT's. Also, I didn't turn any of the subs on for the first demo.

Went through some movie clips and I quickly realized that several adjustments are going to be needed before I am WOW'd. My knowledge in setting up audio is very limited, so I am sure simply "plugging in and playing" wasn't a wise move.

Initial opinion is that the center volume is too low compared to my 212's and seems to get drowned out by the left and right speakers. It doesn't seem right because they are the same drivers and horn, so who knows.

Like I said, I am sure I went about this the wrong way and need to make some drastic adjustments....Or maybe need to add some more power. lol

Any input would be welcomed. Dgage is coming over tomorrow to help me work with my NanoAvr that I just picked up, which I am hoping will improve things.
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post #21196 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 03:46 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
1800 watts per channel at 4ohm on the CV-5000 as compared to 700ish watts per channel on the iNuke 3000 at 4ohm.
Yep, my fearless prediction is he won't notice any difference until he pushes it beyond +12dB master volume.

Let's see...
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post #21197 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Sorry about the delay. Had to get several things done today so I put off speaker listening a little longer.

My first listening session consisted of me simply turning my system on and leaving the settings the same as they were when I had my Noesis 212HT's. Also, I didn't turn any of the subs on for the first demo.

Went through some movie clips and I quickly realized that several adjustments are going to be needed before I am WOW'd. My knowledge in setting up audio is very limited, so I am sure simply "plugging in and playing" wasn't a wise move.

Initial opinion is that the center volume is too low compared to my 212's and seems to get drowned out by the left and right speakers. It doesn't seem right because they are the same drivers and horn, so who knows.

Like I said, I am sure I went about this the wrong way and need to make some drastic adjustments....Or maybe need to add some more power. lol

Any input would be welcomed. Dgage is coming over tomorrow to help me work with my NanoAvr that I just picked up, which I am hoping will improve things.
The only thing I have planned is doing the same thing Carp is doing. either the Inuke6000 or the Pevey IPR5000 DSP. Seems like the simplest solution. But I will be reading on and looking at other options.
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post #21198 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 04:53 PM
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I am going to head back up in a little while, turn off Audyssey and see what happens...


Tomorrow will be when we dive in and see what they can do.
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post #21199 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:01 PM
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I did some testing this morning on the inuke and wrote some numbers down but then I realized I couldn't compare that to the CV5000 since I was running the heavy hitting LFE scenes like How To Train Your Dragon etc. from the Scuba Steve disk. I used a HPF on the inuke and I won't be able to do that with the CV 5000.

So, I re-ran some music and a scene from the movie Avatar since I didn't think it is known for a lot of under 20hz bass.

I used the scene where he says, "these dumb bastards just aren't getting it, time to turn up the heat". There are some explosions after that and that's what I used to compare the amps.

So here is the comparison.


215's Full range no HPF. The numbers below are the exact volume where I saw the slightest flickering of the clip light, -.05 db's less on the master volume and no flickering of the clip light whatsoever.

CV 5000: +2.5
Inuke: -4


For music I picked a song by Pendulum called 9000 Miles. There is some really nice bass around the 2:00 minute mark so that's what I used.

CV 5000: + 7.5
Inuke: - 0.5

The other song I used was Disposable Heroes by Metallica.

CV 5000: + 8.5
Inuke: +1.0



I also tried out the Avatar scene running the 215's with subs, I only did this with the CV5000 here is what I got:


215's set to Large/Subs on (so, no LFE goes to the 215's but other bass does)

CV5000 +6.5




Ok, a couple things here. First off I was really surprised how much of a difference there was between the CV and inuke. Now, it could be that I don't have the gain structure or whatever setup exactly optimal on the inuke, but I have it set so that the input clip lights and output clip lights light up at the same time, plus I did try lowering/raising the speaker trims from the AVR and raising/lowering the sub gain on the inuke and I kept getting clipping at the exact same volume as before.

I would have guessed that the CV would have had 4-5 db advantage, but it's more like 6-8 - at least with this very unscientific test.





Am I bummed that I can no longer go to crazy +12, +15 or + whatever levels of the 212's? No. I can still go to +6.5 as long as I run the mains as large with the subs going at the same time. That is pretty damn good. I bet if I cross the 215's at 50 or even 80hz I could go +10...


Oh, one more thing. As usual the CV doesn't get ANY louder at all when pushed to clipping but the inuke sounds like a jet plane taking off when pushed to clipping. Still, I want to try the 6000 because I absolutely love the dsp of the inuke.
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post #21200 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post
Yep, my fearless prediction is he won't notice any difference until he pushes it beyond +12dB master volume.

Let's see...

Ha, nope ain't happening unless I'm testing my 212 center channel!
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post #21201 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:03 PM
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Oh, I was also surprised that the Metallica song clipped very close to the bassy Pendulum song. Massive amount of difference in low bass between those 2 songs.
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post #21202 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Sorry about the delay. Had to get several things done today so I put off speaker listening a little longer.

My first listening session consisted of me simply turning my system on and leaving the settings the same as they were when I had my Noesis 212HT's. Also, I didn't turn any of the subs on for the first demo.

Went through some movie clips and I quickly realized that several adjustments are going to be needed before I am WOW'd. My knowledge in setting up audio is very limited, so I am sure simply "plugging in and playing" wasn't a wise move.

Initial opinion is that the center volume is too low compared to my 212's and seems to get drowned out by the left and right speakers. It doesn't seem right because they are the same drivers and horn, so who knows.

Like I said, I am sure I went about this the wrong way and need to make some drastic adjustments....Or maybe need to add some more power. lol

Any input would be welcomed. Dgage is coming over tomorrow to help me work with my NanoAvr that I just picked up, which I am hoping will improve things.

Do you have a db meter? If not you gotta get one!!
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post #21203 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I am going to head back up in a little while, turn off Audyssey and see what happens...


Tomorrow will be when we dive in and see what they can do.
Yeah, I'd wait if I were you. If you want to try something, set the left and right speakers to "Large" (or "Full Range"). If there is an option for "Large plus Subs or LFE" use that.

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post #21204 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:05 PM
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I am running into a problem tonight and I need help. I am having a big problem on how I am going to mount my side surrounds with my Slanted 8's. They are just not going to work. I won't go into to details, but I will just say they can not be mounted on the sides.I know it sounds crazy, but there is some problems. I will be able to mount them in the rear and I have decided that I can move the other pair in the front for my heights, that is if I can even mount a slanted 8 in the front? Will it be to much of a dip to seats at 10' or 11'? Anyone using slanted 8's for front heights?

Can anyone tell me if there is a speaker that will pair up with the single 8's that is smaller? I really hate the thought of this, but I am having thoughts of selling my 4 slanted 8's and getting 6 smaller speakers. This really sucks.
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post #21205 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:26 PM
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Is there anyone in the San Antonio, TX area who wouldn't mind allowing me to audition some JTRs? I'm considering a set of the Noesis 228s, but I'd really like to hear them (or anything with the JTR sound) first. Thanks.
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post #21206 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Do you have a db meter? If not you gotta get one!!
I'll be bringing my gear over; DB meter, MiniDSP UMIK-1, Laptop with REW and NanoAVR software. We'll have some fun and hopefully have this dialed in pretty good...at least for this amateur. I'm sure Coach will be happy to get his calibrator Chad back down to really fix things up but in this case...beggars can't be choosy.

Oh, I'll also be bringing his treatments I built along with a compressor and pneumatic upholstery stapler so we can upholster his treatments. So don't expect the audio portion until the afternoon as we'll be treating his entire front wall and front ceiling with treatments first. Pictures forthcoming.
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post #21207 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I am going to head back up in a little while, turn off Audyssey and see what happens...


Tomorrow will be when we dive in and see what they can do.
Yes unless I am missing something you should have had Audyssey off from the get go if you didn't run a fresh calibration for the 215's. Otherwise you are getting the room correction it set for your previous speakers applied to the 215's. But I am sure you knew that I would go Audyssey off and then your Audyssey calibration done very meticulously (1st measurement literally measured dead center, all electronics off, most use a tighter mic cluster, etc.)

I feel unqualified to make suggestions but I too have a (tiny compared to yours) triple 8 LP center channel below screen. I have experimented with center channel optimization for clear vocals for movies is something I have experimented a bit with. I currently have a 2 inch acoustical panel I built for it to sit on. I really don't think it does much in respect to positive acoustical effects but it raises it up a bit and I also have some foam wedges that angle it up slightly so that it aims head height while sitting. (perhaps just a tad couple inches higher maybe). I feel it has made significant effects rather than just firing directly straight. Your case I would say have some kind of wedges to angle it up ever so slightly? But I don't know your seating arrangement. Anyway dgage and you will get it all sorted out I know
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post #21208 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I'll be bringing my gear over; DB meter, MiniDSP UMIK-1, Laptop with REW and NanoAVR software. We'll have some fun and hopefully have this dialed in pretty good...at least for this amateur. I'm sure Coach will be happy to get his calibrator Chad back down to really fix things up but in this case...beggars can't be choosy.

Oh, I'll also be bringing his treatments I built along with a compressor and pneumatic upholstery stapler so we can upholster his treatments. So don't expect the audio portion until the afternoon as we'll be treating his entire front wall and front ceiling with treatments first. Pictures forthcoming.
OH YES!!! That ceiling treatment that covers the 1st specular reflections for LCR speakers for at least the 2-3 main seats will make your speakers instantly a level better guaranteed. At minimum the main seat. The floor too. If you don't have plush carpet GET A PLUSH RUG! seriously big difference. I am interested to actually research that nanoavr as well.
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post #21209 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I did some testing this morning on the inuke and wrote some numbers down but then I realized I couldn't compare that to the CV5000 since I was running the heavy hitting LFE scenes like How To Train Your Dragon etc. from the Scuba Steve disk. I used a HPF on the inuke and I won't be able to do that with the CV 5000.

So, I re-ran some music and a scene from the movie Avatar since I didn't think it is known for a lot of under 20hz bass.

I used the scene where he says, "these dumb bastards just aren't getting it, time to turn up the heat". There are some explosions after that and that's what I used to compare the amps.

So here is the comparison.


215's Full range no HPF. The numbers below are the exact volume where I saw the slightest flickering of the clip light, -.05 db's less on the master volume and no flickering of the clip light whatsoever.

CV 5000: +2.5
Inuke: -4


For music I picked a song by Pendulum called 9000 Miles. There is some really nice bass around the 2:00 minute mark so that's what I used.

CV 5000: + 7.5
Inuke: - 0.5

The other song I used was Disposable Heroes by Metallica.

CV 5000: + 8.5
Inuke: +1.0



I also tried out the Avatar scene running the 215's with subs, I only did this with the CV5000 here is what I got:


215's set to Large/Subs on (so, no LFE goes to the 215's but other bass does)

CV5000 +6.5




Ok, a couple things here. First off I was really surprised how much of a difference there was between the CV and inuke. Now, it could be that I don't have the gain structure or whatever setup exactly optimal on the inuke, but I have it set so that the input clip lights and output clip lights light up at the same time, plus I did try lowering/raising the speaker trims from the AVR and raising/lowering the sub gain on the inuke and I kept getting clipping at the exact same volume as before.

I would have guessed that the CV would have had 4-5 db advantage, but it's more like 6-8 - at least with this very unscientific test.





Am I bummed that I can no longer go to crazy +12, +15 or + whatever levels of the 212's? No. I can still go to +6.5 as long as I run the mains as large with the subs going at the same time. That is pretty damn good. I bet if I cross the 215's at 50 or even 80hz I could go +10...


Oh, one more thing. As usual the CV doesn't get ANY louder at all when pushed to clipping but the inuke sounds like a jet plane taking off when pushed to clipping. Still, I want to try the 6000 because I absolutely love the dsp of the inuke.

Carp, although this may not be perfectly controlled experiment I think it has a lot of practical and useful information about running more juice. Amp ratings (and exactly how they were determined), speaker impedence loads at various frequencies and so on, all have an impact and this is a great quick real world test IMHO

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21210 of 22816 Old 07-10-2014, 06:16 PM
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Dgage might have to rent a box truck to bring all that gear over tomorrow. Haha

I am looking forward to playing and learning some tomorrow. No doubt that these will be sounding a ton better tomorrow.
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