Official JTR speaker thread - Page 708 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:50 PM
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I think we have solved the mystery of the missing mid-bass in the 215's!! 80-200 hz is lower than all other freqeuncies, even the peak around 100 for the right channel and 140 for the left channel are still way lower than the peaks at the other frequencies. The center should have better mid bass than the L and R, although there are a couple nasty dips there too.

Man, the left speaker drops off a cliff under 30hz, the right speaker does so much better in the low frequencies.

I'm surprised to see the center channel hanging on down to 30hz, that doesn't make much sense.


The treatments are helping with the left speaker - I'm also wondering about the seating placement. Does Coach have 1 row? If so maybe the response would be better by either moving up some or back some?
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:11 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I think we have solved the mystery of the missing mid-bass in the 215's!! 80-200 hz is lower than all other freqeuncies, even the peak around 100 for the right channel and 140 for the left channel are still way lower than the peaks at the other frequencies. The center should have better mid bass than the L and R, although there are a couple nasty dips there too.

Man, the left speaker drops off a cliff under 30hz, the right speaker does so much better in the low frequencies.

I'm surprised to see the center channel hanging on down to 30hz, that doesn't make much sense.


The treatments are helping with the left speaker - I'm also wondering about the seating placement. Does Coach have 1 row? If so maybe the response would be better by either moving up some or back some?
We have two rows in my room. The first row could go back slightly, but then it would mess up the side surround placement.

I need to get more educated in how to read those measurements and to know what the ideal ranges are. Hopefully it can be eq'd to net a better result and not that something is wrong with the speakers.
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
We have two rows in my room. The first row could go back slightly, but then it would mess up the side surround placement.

I need to get more educated in how to read those measurements and to know what the ideal ranges are. Hopefully it can be eq'd to net a better result and not that something is wrong with the speakers.
I am in the same boat, I am not the best are reading the measurements. I need to get more acquainted with it real soon. You're room looks great. The treatments look really good. What are the dimensions on the the ceiling panels? Did you use the 703?
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Old 07-16-2014, 07:54 AM
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I am in the same boat, I am not the best are reading the measurements. I need to get more acquainted with it real soon. You're room looks great. The treatments look really good. What are the dimensions on the the ceiling panels? Did you use the 703?
I built the ceiling treatments out of 2x4s, 40"x48". We used Roxul Comfortbatts (wall/stud insulation) for the ceiling and Roxulboard 60 for the wall treatments. Gives 3.5" insulation for the ceiling with a couple inches of air space due to the hooks. On the wall treatments, we have 2" with a 1" airspace in the back.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
We have two rows in my room. The first row could go back slightly, but then it would mess up the side surround placement.

I need to get more educated in how to read those measurements and to know what the ideal ranges are. Hopefully it can be eq'd to net a better result and not that something is wrong with the speakers.
I wouldn't get too hung up on the measurements Coach. You have applied room treatments which should eliminate excessive reflections. With your room size, it can easily be overloaded with sound so I wouldn't worry too much about over reference SPL's except for showing off purposes.

These measurements are point in space and as I'm sure you know, moving a foot or two in any direction causes things to change sometimes dramatically. The goal is to get it sounding good where you sit ... right ?

I still believe (despite other "expert" opinions) that Audyssey (XT32) is fairly good at optimizing sound quality over multiple locations in an untreated room.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
We have two rows in my room. The first row could go back slightly, but then it would mess up the side surround placement.

I need to get more educated in how to read those measurements and to know what the ideal ranges are. Hopefully it can be eq'd to net a better result and not that something is wrong with the speakers.

Ahh gotcha.

Can you guys use 1/12 smoothing? I think it's harder to see what is going on when using no smoothing - or it could be that I'm just used to seeing 1/12 smoothed graphs since that is what I like to use. I have read quite a few times that our ears hear similar to what 1/6th smoothing looks like so I figure if I go one setting less smoothed than 1/6th (which is 1/12th on the omnimic) then I'll be good to go.

However, even unsmoothed you can really tell that the mid-bass is very low in those left and right main graphs.


Coach -

Also there is something else I have been wondering. The 215's have a different sound to them than the 212's - and definitely different imaging and soundstage - than the 212's. Could part of your being underwhelmed be not just the mid-bass but maybe your ears do not like these differences and prefer the 212's? Obviously for your sake I really hope that is not the case - but wondered if it was a possibility.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:21 AM
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Ahh gotcha.

Can you guys use 1/12 smoothing? I think it's harder to see what is going on when using no smoothing - or it could be that I'm just used to seeing 1/12 smoothed graphs since that is what I like to use. I have read quite a few times that our ears hear similar to what 1/6th smoothing looks like so I figure if I go one setting less smoothed than 1/6th (which is 1/12th on the omnimic) then I'll be good to go.

However, even unsmoothed you can really tell that the mid-bass is very low in those left and right main graphs.


Coach -

Also there is something else I have been wondering. The 215's have a different sound to them than the 212's - and definitely different imaging and soundstage - than the 212's. Could part of your being underwhelmed be not just the mid-bass but maybe your ears do not like these differences and prefer the 212's? Obviously for your sake I really hope that is not the case - but wondered if it was a possibility.
That is with 1/6 smoothing but I'll use 1/12 in future posts. I can't speak for Coach but he has already mentioned soundstage width and midbass were the main reasons he made the switch to the 215s. Soundstage is definitely large but obviously the midbass will have to be brought in from Taiwan with the MiniDSP NanoAVR.

For me, I like the sound of the 215s better than the 212s, and I'm primarily referring to the upper end of the frequency range. At some point, I will bring my 212HT-LP center over to directly compare it to the 215RM center but that won't be today.
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ahh gotcha.

Can you guys use 1/12 smoothing? I think it's harder to see what is going on when using no smoothing - or it could be that I'm just used to seeing 1/12 smoothed graphs since that is what I like to use. I have read quite a few times that our ears hear similar to what 1/6th smoothing looks like so I figure if I go one setting less smoothed than 1/6th (which is 1/12th on the omnimic) then I'll be good to go.

However, even unsmoothed you can really tell that the mid-bass is very low in those left and right main graphs.


Coach -

Also there is something else I have been wondering. The 215's have a different sound to them than the 212's - and definitely different imaging and soundstage - than the 212's. Could part of your being underwhelmed be not just the mid-bass but maybe your ears do not like these differences and prefer the 212's? Obviously for your sake I really hope that is not the case - but wondered if it was a possibility.
I was initially underwhelmed right when I hooked them up. That was 100% due to my lack of turning off the previous Audyssey settings. After we adjusted the levels manually, that made a big difference. The sound of the 215's is to my liking, especially the soundstage. At this point, the mid bass is the only thing lacking....but I am confident we will overcome that.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:04 AM
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I was sick yesterday, so I told Jeff to wait on the speakers for now (Three 215RT's). He will drop them off Friday night, I will optimize placement Saturday, and Hopefully Calibrate Sunday. That is if everything goes to plan.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:13 PM
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I was sick yesterday, so I told Jeff to wait on the speakers for now (Three 215RT's). He will drop them off Friday night, I will optimize placement Saturday, and Hopefully Calibrate Sunday. That is if everything goes to plan.
That must have been some illness because if I was getting my 215's delivered, that would have been my cure.
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:34 PM
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That is with 1/6 smoothing but I'll use 1/12 in future posts. I can't speak for Coach but he has already mentioned soundstage width and midbass were the main reasons he made the switch to the 215s. Soundstage is definitely large but obviously the midbass will have to be brought in from Taiwan with the MiniDSP NanoAVR.

For me, I like the sound of the 215s better than the 212s, and I'm primarily referring to the upper end of the frequency range. At some point, I will bring my 212HT-LP center over to directly compare it to the 215RM center but that won't be today.


1/12 smoothing will be even more ragged than your 1/6th smoothing. That's crazy that the graph is in 1/6th, it looks more like 1/48 for what I'm used to with the omnimic.

Hmmm what the heck? I must not understand how REW works compared to the Omnimic. The REW graphs look so much more ragged in their response (not just yours). Is it a time thing, as in the Onmi captures a longer period of time for it's sweeps or something?
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Old 07-16-2014, 01:54 PM
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That must have been some illness because if I was getting my 215's delivered, that would have been my cure.
I felt very weak and know I wouldn't have been able to lift them even with Jeff's help. So no need to get them if I can't bring them down stairs.

I feel better today, and will probably be 99%+ by Friday, so I should be able to get them where I need them.

***I want to love them as much as everyone here as they will likely never leave my home once downstairs. I'm not going in expecting the world. I am going to keep my expectations in check and I will give an honest opinion once I have them dialed in. Everyone seems so excited about the sound stage and imaging of them. But I actually expect that to be a downgrade from what I had before with my Vandersteen Quatro's. I do expect the dynamics and effortlessness at reference to be an upgrade thought. (Better be... lol)

Regardless, these will be my "final" theater speakers regarding mains.

I will eventually over the next couple of years get S8's for wides and Slanted 8's for sides / rears / ceiling (atmos)
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
1/12 smoothing will be even more ragged than your 1/6th smoothing. That's crazy that the graph is in 1/6th, it looks more like 1/48 for what I'm used to with the omnimic.

Hmmm what the heck? I must not understand how REW works compared to the Omnimic. The REW graphs look so much more ragged in their response (not just yours). Is it a time thing, as in the Onmi captures a longer period of time for it's sweeps or something?
The y axis was quite constrained. Where OM typically defaults to around 60dB spread or so, David's graph was quite a bit tighter.

EDIT: Yep, his y axis is 35dB spread, so really it just makes it look much more jagged. David could adjust the y axis to 60dB and it would look just about like you are used to.

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Old 07-16-2014, 02:05 PM
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The y axis was quite constrained. Where OM typically defaults to around 60dB spread or so, David's graph was quite a bit tighter.
Thanks - I see that now. Still, even with that - it's so much more up and down especially for 1/6th smoothing.... am I right about that?
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:06 PM
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I felt very weak and know I wouldn't have been able to lift them even with Jeff's help. So no need to get them if I can't bring them down stairs.

I feel better today, and will probably be 99%+ by Friday, so I should be able to get them where I need them.

***I want to love them as much as everyone here as they will likely never leave my home once downstairs. I'm not going in expecting the world. I am going to keep my expectations in check and I will give an honest opinion once I have them dialed in. Everyone seems so excited about the sound stage and imaging of them. But I actually expect that to be a downgrade from what I had before with my Vandersteen Quatro's. I do expect the dynamics and effortlessness at reference to be an upgrade thought. (Better be... lol)

Regardless, these will be my "final" theater speakers regarding mains.

I will eventually over the next couple of years get S8's for wides and Slanted 8's for sides / rears / ceiling (atoms)
I have never heard the Vandersteens, but I will almost guarantee that you will be floored. I would make that guarantee with the 212's. I think you will be a very happy camper. Considering that you have a beautiful well treated room to put them in is all the better. I really cannot wait to hear your opinions of them.
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:06 PM
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
I felt very weak and know I wouldn't have been able to lift them even with Jeff's help. So no need to get them if I can't bring them down stairs.

I feel better today, and will probably be 99%+ by Friday, so I should be able to get them where I need them.

***I want to love them as much as everyone here as they will likely never leave my home once downstairs. I'm not going in expecting the world. I am going to keep my expectations in check and I will give an honest opinion once I have them dialed in. Everyone seems so excited about the sound stage and imaging of them. But I actually expect that to be a downgrade from what I had before with my Vandersteen Quatro's. I do expect the dynamics and effortlessness at reference to be an upgrade thought. (Better be... lol)

Regardless, these will be my "final" theater speakers regarding mains.

I will eventually over the next couple of years get S8's for wides and Slanted 8's for sides / rears / ceiling (atmos)


I know how you feel, my expectations were held down too. They exceeded everything I hoped for with the exception that their sensitivity is SOOOO much lower than the 212's.

My concern for you is that you have already heard the 215's and it seemed like you thought they were just ok. I hope that is different in your room!!
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Old 07-16-2014, 02:14 PM
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I was very happy with the sound from the 212HT's at Lances. So that's why i'm going to go in with lower expectations after hearing an OK presentation of the 215RT's. I do think it was the room they were in, so I hope to be blown away as well.

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Old 07-16-2014, 02:45 PM
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[QUOTE=carp;25796913]I know how you feel, my expectations were held down too. They exceeded everything I hoped for with the exception that their sensitivity is SOOOO much lower than the 212's.

Hey Carp,
I am wondering when you mention the lower sensitivity of the 215's, if you are now using a pro amp to power them and did not with your prior speakers.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:08 PM
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Has Jeff ever mentioned replacing the S8 line with anything that more closely matches the Noesis line? I see he is retiring the triple loudspeakers but no mention on the S8. My concern is the S8 is not cheap and with Atmos on its way, the non LCR channels will represent a huge cost. I understand the S8 timber match to the Noesis is good, but it seems a new design could improve this. Maybe something with the Noesis driver and a single 8 driver. This would be larger that the S8, but smaller than what is currently offered in the Noesis line.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:25 PM
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Has Jeff ever mentioned replacing the S8 line with anything that more closely matches the Noesis line? I see he is retiring the triple loudspeakers but no mention on the S8. My concern is the S8 is not cheap and with Atmos on its way, the non LCR channels will represent a huge cost. I understand the S8 timber match to the Noesis is good, but it seems a new design could improve this. Maybe something with the Noesis driver and a single 8 driver. This would be larger that the S8, but smaller than what is currently offered in the Noesis line.
Not sure of any details but I know Jeff is considering a low profile speaker for in-wall and/or ceiling mounting. This speaker would require a very different design than the current coaxial based single/slanted 8's. Personally, I would be interested in that design for an Atmos setup.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:31 PM
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Thanks. Yes, sorry, I also meant a non-coaxial design, just for clarification. Fingers crossed.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:48 PM
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Hey Carp,
I am wondering when you mention the lower sensitivity of the 215's, if you are now using a pro amp to power them and did not with your prior speakers.[/quote]


With the 212's I went back and forth spending months at a time with a pro amp and months with the avr and in the end realized that in no way did I need anymore power than my avr could put out - and even on rare occasions that I felt like going to +15 it wasn't worth the hiss that I got from the speakers when hooked to a pro amp.

With the 215's I am currently using an Inuke 3000 dsp and no hiss!!! Ha, at least there is one benefit to have lost sensitivity!

I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's, so let's pretend it was 12 db's to make it a nice even number. Well, in that case I would need 16 times the power to get the same spl's that I was getting from the 212's. If my AVR was putting out 100 watts to each (which is probably best case scenerio) then I need 1600 watts to get the same spl's that I was getting with my avr.

I'll never touch what I was getting with the 212's and a pro amp.

I think with an Inuke 6000 dsp that will for sure get me there since it is supposed to put out close to 2000 watts in 4 ohms per channel.


Someone correct me if any of this ^ is wrong.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:18 PM
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Hey Carp,
I am wondering when you mention the lower sensitivity of the 215's, if you are now using a pro amp to power them and did not with your prior speakers.

With the 212's I went back and forth spending months at a time with a pro amp and months with the avr and in the end realized that in no way did I need anymore power than my avr could put out - and even on rare occasions that I felt like going to +15 it wasn't worth the hiss that I got from the speakers when hooked to a pro amp.

With the 215's I am currently using an Inuke 3000 dsp and no hiss!!! Ha, at least there is one benefit to have lost sensitivity!

I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's, so let's pretend it was 12 db's to make it a nice even number. Well, in that case I would need 16 times the power to get the same spl's that I was getting from the 212's. If my AVR was putting out 100 watts to each (which is probably best case scenerio) then I need 1600 watts to get the same spl's that I was getting with my avr.

I'll never touch what I was getting with the 212's and a pro amp.

I think with an Inuke 6000 dsp that will for sure get me there since it is supposed to put out close to 2000 watts in 4 ohms per channel.


Syomeone correct me if any of this ^ is wrong. [/QUOTE

I like to follow this thread as I love the look and dynamics of the JTR speakers. They first caught my eye because of the similarities to my own Klipsch Epic CF3's speakers. The reason you are having trouble with the trim, I believe, is because your pre outs from your receiver are not putting out a strong enough signal to your pro amp. I had the same problem with my Pioneer Receiver when I got my Crown K2 amp. Through some reading I discovered that it is a common problem when hooking up home theater gear to pro amps and they recommended buying a converter that bumps up the signal from the receiver to the proper gain to match what the pro amp is designed to receive. The 2 that I purchased were the Art clean box Pro and the Henry HD, which do just that. Once I added the Henry it brought the trims of the front 3 speakers to within a few dB's of each other when I ran the MCacc. You might do some reading on them.

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Old 07-16-2014, 05:35 PM
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I like to follow this thread as I love the look and dynamics of the JTR speakers. They first caught my eye because of the similarities to my own Klipsch Epic CF3's speakers. The reason you are having trouble with the trim, I believe, is because your pre outs from your receiver are not putting out a strong enough signal to your pro amp. I had the same problem with my Pioneer Receiver when I got my Crown K2 amp. Through some reading I discovered that it is a common problem when hooking up home theater gear to pro amps and they recommended buying a converter that bumps up the signal from the receiver to the proper gain to match what the pro amp is designed to receive. The 2 that I purchased were the Art clean box Pro and the Henry HD, which do just that. Once I added the Henry it brought the trims of the front 3 speakers to within a few dB's of each other when I ran the MCacc. You might do some reading on them.

Thanks and you are right I really do have to crank up the gains on all my pro amps since the signal is weak from my AVR, but that isn't what I mean.

What I mean is even with just using the AVR and no pro amp at all, I have to bump up the speaker volume trims 11 db's for the 215's to match the 212's. This is why I need roughly 16 times the power with the 215's to get to the same output that I had with the 212's.
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Old 07-16-2014, 06:29 PM
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Ah, I see. Also from what I have read, if a pro amp does not get a strong enough input signal, it will not be able to reach its full power. Though, those who no know for sure may chime in on that. Anyways, I trust you are enjoying your new speakers and I have always been impressed with your room and your devotion to taking things to the max. Very Cool.
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Old 07-16-2014, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

With the 212's I went back and forth spending months at a time with a pro amp and months with the avr and in the end realized that in no way did I need anymore power than my avr could put out - and even on rare occasions that I felt like going to +15 it wasn't worth the hiss that I got from the speakers when hooked to a pro amp.

With the 215's I am currently using an Inuke 3000 dsp and no hiss!!! Ha, at least there is one benefit to have lost sensitivity!

I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's, so let's pretend it was 12 db's to make it a nice even number. Well, in that case I would need 16 times the power to get the same spl's that I was getting from the 212's. If my AVR was putting out 100 watts to each (which is probably best case scenerio) then I need 1600 watts to get the same spl's that I was getting with my avr.

I'll never touch what I was getting with the 212's and a pro amp.

I think with an Inuke 6000 dsp that will for sure get me there since it is supposed to put out close to 2000 watts in 4 ohms per channel.


Someone correct me if any of this ^ is wrong.
People keep saying that their pro-amps introduces hiss... however, the FP10000 clone I got have zero hiss (well, until you put your ear up close to the horn, which both the avr and pro amp does have that bit of hiss... so little you can't hear it from 1 feet away).

So, does that mean, the Clone is better and cleaner than Inuke?
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:30 PM
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Here are some more before and after measurements from Coach's room, this time after we imported midbass from Taiwan via the MiniDSP NanoAVR. I adjusted the graphs to hopefully be more standard based on the feedback above.

Interesting items to note:
  • The center was real easy to integrate. (ONE NOTE: The PostDSP also includes a 24db crossover at 50Hz vs PreDSP which was full range)
  • The left had a major drop of over 20db near 90 hz. Tried moving surrounding subs, closing the port, etc. but nothing really helped.
  • The right wasn't much easier to work with to get a nice freq. response but it wasn't as bad as the left.
  • I started with automatic EQing with REW but didn't like the results so went manual on everything
  • We went with a target response elevated from 150 down and then sloping down starting around 1000 and down about 5db at 20000
  • We didn't get around to DSPing the subs as we ran out of time so they were using the previous DSP settings

Sound observations (215RTs and 215RM with 8 SI18s plus JBL 8340 cinema surrounds):
  • The midbass was really nice; Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene was very nice; Metalica Bluray was great. Some of the explosions in One were PHENOMENAL and made Jeff jump once towards the end.
  • The ported 215RTs sounded great with the subs...didn't notice any issues with the sound integration of sealed subs and ported speakers.
  • The 215s sounded great but we probably tamed the top end a little much and have to do some work on getting the sub levels a little closer. Still sounded very clean between the subs and speakers.
  • Soundstage is really large on the 215s but still not in the same league as the Danley SH50s IMO. Note, I haven't heard them in the same room and we know how good audio memory is...but I'm pretty sure the Danley would take the soundstage award in a head to head shootout. Of course, the 215RTs do other things better than the SH50s too so I'm not saying the SH50s are better than the 215RTs. Nothing is perfect.


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Old 07-17-2014, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Here are some more before and after measurements from Coach's room, this time after we imported midbass from Taiwan via the MiniDSP NanoAVR. I adjusted the graphs to hopefully be more standard based on the feedback above.

Interesting items to note:
  • The center was real easy to integrate. (ONE NOTE: The PostDSP also includes a 24db crossover at 50Hz vs PreDSP which was full range)
  • The left had a major drop of over 20db near 90 hz. Tried moving surrounding subs, closing the port, etc. but nothing really helped.
  • The right wasn't much easier to work with to get a nice freq. response but it wasn't as bad as the left.
  • I started with automatic EQing with REW but didn't like the results so went manual on everything
  • We went with a target response elevated from 150 down and then sloping down starting around 1000 and down about 5db at 20000
  • We didn't get around to DSPing the subs as we ran out of time so they were using the previous DSP settings

Sound observations (215RTs and 215RM with 8 SI18s plus JBL 8340 cinema surrounds):
  • The midbass was really nice; Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene was very nice; Metalica Bluray was great. Some of the explosions in One were PHENOMENAL and made Jeff jump once towards the end.
  • The ported 215RTs sounded great with the subs...didn't notice any issues with the sound integration of sealed subs and ported speakers.
  • The 215s sounded great but we probably tamed the top end a little much and have to do some work on getting the sub levels a little closer. Still sounded very clean between the subs and speakers.
  • Soundstage is really large on the 215s but still not in the same league as the Danley SH50s IMO. Note, I haven't heard them in the same room and we know how good audio memory is...but I'm pretty sure the Danley would take the soundstage award in a head to head shootout. Of course, the 215RTs do other things better than the SH50s too so I'm not saying the SH50s are better than the 215RTs. Nothing is perfect.


Yesterday was an interesting learning experience. Much thanks to David for spending as much time as he did on things yesterday.

We indeed found the mid bass and it was impressive to me, especially during Book of Eli. What impressed me the most was the Metallica Blu-Ray. "ONE" is probably the one track that really showed off what I have going on in my room. Like David said, we still have some work to do. Bass was probably up a tad bit, but overall the results were to our liking. I think once the bass gets adjusted and the highs are attacked again, it will be what I was hoping to achieve.

Since it has been awhile since I heard the Danleys, it would be hard for me to really comment on them. From what I remember in Beast's room, they were impressive but can't honestly say one way or the other. It would be a nice treat to listen to them in my room to do an A/B comparison. No way I would ask anybody to lug heavy speakers up to my room and no way the RT's are heading back down the stairs any time soon.

As of right now, I think I have enough power to run the LCR. We had things at -9 and then -7 when we were going through demo scenes. It was almost too much for me, but it was 10:00 and we had been up there for a long time working. Could have just been tiredness kicking in. The volume level did surprise me some. Everything I had read about the NanoAvr had said that due to the LPCM setting required to use it, the volume will have to be played at a higher volume than it would in normal Bitstream. Some mentioned up to a 10 db difference. In our case, it was only a 3 db difference...which was good.

I think the RM is going to be a great fit for somebody that is mid bass hungry and doesn't think the 212HT's can do it. Most likely, I would have been fine with three of the RM's in my room....but having the RT's does give me a little more. Plus the "WOW" factor when people walk in my room.

Similar to what I said when I went from the Triple 12's to the 212HT's, the change wasn't drastic, but it was enough to make it worth it. Except I think the change was more drastic in some areas(sound stage and mid bass) but not as much in maybe some other areas. Since a wider sound stage and more mid bass is what I was after, they are definitely the speaker for me.

More to come..
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:53 AM
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I felt very weak and know I wouldn't have been able to lift them even with Jeff's help. So no need to get them if I can't bring them down stairs.

I feel better today, and will probably be 99%+ by Friday, so I should be able to get them where I need them.

***I want to love them as much as everyone here as they will likely never leave my home once downstairs. I'm not going in expecting the world. I am going to keep my expectations in check and I will give an honest opinion once I have them dialed in. Everyone seems so excited about the sound stage and imaging of them. But I actually expect that to be a downgrade from what I had before with my Vandersteen Quatro's. I do expect the dynamics and effortlessness at reference to be an upgrade thought. (Better be... lol)

Regardless, these will be my "final" theater speakers regarding mains.

I will eventually over the next couple of years get S8's for wides and Slanted 8's for sides / rears / ceiling (atmos)
I have heard the vandersteen quatros in a treated demo room and it is in my maybe top 5 experiences of all time audiophile wise at least. Right up there with Wilson and magnepan etc.

You are right the soundstage is phenomenal with the quatro but the 215 excels at this too so I don't think you will be disappointed. More than anything I just think it will be a "different" sound than what you are used to and you will either decide you like it or you don't. The quatros gave me that extra something when listening to music. Almost nirvana like. I own the 212 and have heard the 215 and they more rarely give me that same feeling. Then again sometimes they do. But everyone's tastes are different. As a cinema speaker that you can crank to obscene levels with incredible dynamics I think you will be very pleased.
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