Official JTR speaker thread - Page 709 - AVS Forum
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post #21241 of 21704 Old 07-12-2014, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
As promised, here is a better picture (sorry for the spots, need to clean the lens on my digital camera that I rarely use) of Coach's 215 array. We'll finish the treatments and DSPing on Sunday.

Oh yeah, I forgot to put my initial thoughts on the 215s. Upon entering the room, my first thought was what's up with the huge black refrigerator in the home theater room. Damn those 215RTs are huge. Sound is huge too and I can't wait to hear them dialed in better and with treatments installed on the front wall and on ceiling. So far the sonic impressions are that they are a little more laid back than the 212s but without any loss in detail. Haven't noticed much more on the midbass but we were doing vanilla listening without anything more than settings levels. We'll definitely be dialing up the midbass and watching the Book of Eli Gatling gun scene.


Thank you posting a better picture.

It was nice to hear these with the settings correct. Gets me excited about the potential of what these can do once everything is in place.
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post #21242 of 21704 Old 07-12-2014, 08:33 AM
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Looking good! How about a close up of the center channel 215.

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post #21243 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Sure man. If you ever have a reason to be close to KC you'll get a plethora of JTR demo's! Everything from 228's, 212's, 215's, Orbit Shifters, ported big boy Captivators.....
Cool. Thank you for the invitation. I rarely have an opportunity to travel more than a few hours away, but if I'm ever in your neck of the woods I'll be sure to call.
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post #21244 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 06:03 AM
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A little bit of this yesterday. Very nice day with a group of good guys.


This time I really liked the SH50's. I am really looking forward to a 215 vs SH50. The Yorkvilles even impressed me as they were pretty much on par with the SH50 especially at higher volumes.

The book of Eli scene was sick. I think I heard that somebody just got hooked on pro audio speakers
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post #21245 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
A little bit of this yesterday. Very nice day with a group of good guys.


This time I really liked the SH50's. I am really looking forward to a 215 vs SH50. The Yorkvilles even impressed me as they were pretty much on par with the SH50 especially at higher volumes.

The book of Eli scene was sick. I think somebody just got hooked on pro audio speakers
Which gtg was this?
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post #21246 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
A little bit of this yesterday. Very nice day with a group of good guys.


This time I really liked the SH50's. I am really looking forward to a 215 vs SH50. The Yorkvilles even impressed me as they were pretty much on par with the SH50 especially at higher volumes.

The book of Eli scene was sick. I think somebody just got hooked on pro audio speakers
Gorilla has an awesome theater that can put out some serious SPL. The Danleys and Yorkvilles were amazing but not planning to sell the 212's anytime soon. Great meeting all you guys. Thanks for coordinating this mini GTG.
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post #21247 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Which gtg was this?
Just a little local GTG yesterday. A little jam session and then out to dinner.
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post #21248 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Just a little local GTG yesterday. A little jam session and then out to dinner.
Thanks.

I did find some posts about it in his build thread.

I am considering moving my 228's to my living room and buying yorkville U215's to get more midbass.
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post #21249 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Thanks.

I did find some posts about it in his build thread.

I am considering moving my 228's to my living room and buying yorkville U215's to get more midbass.
Talk to Gorilla about them. He would know best about them as he has had them as long as I have had my 212's. We switched the SH50's to the U215's for the last hour and at first I could not even really tell we switched, but at lower volumes I could tell there was an audible difference, but when the Yorks are cranked up they really shine. I could really sit every weekend and just listen to different speakers. At this point I just cannot wait to get my theater done so and blast my own speakers.
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post #21250 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 06:29 PM
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Update...
David and I finished hanging my room treatments today/tonight. We ran out of time to do any eq'ing, so we just listened to the opening scene in Transformers..didn't notice any major change except the dialog was nice and clear.

Again, all we have done is set the RT's to full range and put the crossover on the RM to 60hz.(this was changed from 80hz.)

The only complaint(I use the term lightly) is that I haven't heard any change in the mid bass...but I am assuming that is due to no EQ applied.

Is this correct?
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post #21251 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Update...

Again, all we have done is set the RT's to full range and put the crossover on the RM to 60hz.(this was changed from 80hz.)

The only complaint(I use the term lightly) is that I haven't heard any change in the mid bass...but I am assuming that is due to no EQ applied.

Is this correct?
All the JTR speakers are flat, so you wouldn't hear any mid-bass difference between the 212's and 215's if they aren't eq'd.

That's why I love the inuke dsp so much since you can eq the bass exactly how you like.
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post #21252 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
All the JTR speakers are flat, so you wouldn't hear any mid-bass difference between the 212's and 215's if they aren't eq'd.

That's why I love the inuke dsp so much since you can eq the bass exactly how you like.
That makes sense.

I have a Nanoavr that I am going to use for the first time, with the help of David, on my 215's.
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post #21253 of 21704 Old 07-13-2014, 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
That makes sense.

I have a Nanoavr that I am going to use for the first time, with the help of David, on my 215's.
Question: What home theater house curve should I be targeting for Coach's 215RTs, 215RM, and 8 SI18s?
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post #21254 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
All the JTR speakers are flat, so you wouldn't hear any mid-bass difference between the 212's and 215's if they aren't eq'd.

That's why I love the inuke dsp so much since you can eq the bass exactly how you like.
Carp, have you tried using the inuke to eq your previous 212s as Jeff suggested (boosting the 120hz-150hz range)... if so, how does that stand up to the 215s boosted?
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post #21255 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post
Gorilla has an awesome theater that can put out some serious SPL. The Danleys and Yorkvilles were amazing but not planning to sell the 212's anytime soon. Great meeting all you guys. Thanks for coordinating this mini GTG.
David - Great meeting you as well! I'm glad you got a chance to make it out this weekend and have some fun prior to the start of your work week. Did you make it out to Craig's on Sunday?

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Update...
David and I finished hanging my room treatments today/tonight. We ran out of time to do any eq'ing, so we just listened to the opening scene in Transformers..didn't notice any major change except the dialog was nice and clear.

Again, all we have done is set the RT's to full range and put the crossover on the RM to 60hz.(this was changed from 80hz.)

The only complaint(I use the term lightly) is that I haven't heard any change in the mid bass...but I am assuming that is due to no EQ applied.

Is this correct?
I'm really interested in hearing feedback on the 215RMs - especially those integrating with a slew of sealed subs. I'd imagine integration would be far easier!
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post #21256 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 07:20 AM
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David - Great meeting you as well! I'm glad you got a chance to make it out this weekend and have some fun prior to the start of your work week. Did you make it out to Craig's on Sunday?



I'm really interested in hearing feedback on the 215RMs - especially those integrating with a slew of sealed subs. I'd imagine integration would be far easier!
I know I chatted with you at dinner about the RT's and from what I have been told you really do not need subs for music, that of course with a good amp and EQ. Unless Carp has changed his opinion, but he has told me you can run the 215's just fine on their own for music and that means allot from a guy that loves bass. I had thought about the 215RM, but after thinking about it, I don't think there would be anything to be gained over my 212's, I actually think you would loose allot of the dynamics. The beauty of the 215RT is that you can run them full range (2 CH) for music and cross them over and run them with your sealed subs. I may be wrong, but from what I am gathering, I think anyone considering the 215RM's would be much better off with the 212's for mains.
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post #21257 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Question: What home theater house curve should I be targeting for Coach's 215RTs, 215RM, and 8 SI18s?
Sounds like you should start by bumping the mid-bass region.

But seriously, the minidsp seems to have all the necessary tools to get the desired result. The specific curve is a matter of preference (e.g. Coach's).

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post #21258 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 07:30 AM
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I know I chatted with you at dinner about the RT's and from what I have been told you really do not need subs for music, that of course with a good amp and EQ. Unless Carp has changed his opinion, but he has told me you can run the 215's just fine on their own for music and that means allot from a guy that loves bass. I had thought about the 215RM, but after thinking about it, I don't think there would be anything to be gained over my 212's, I actually think you would loose allot of the dynamics. The beauty of the 215RT is that you can run them full range for music and cross them over and run them with your sealed subs. I may be wrong, but from what I am gathering, I think anyone considering the 215RM's would be much better off with the 212's for mains.
Not sure about much better off but I suspect you're thinking about efficiency. In those terms I agree but there are differences in the horn that may make the 215RM a better option for some. Also, the 15" woofers may have more to give in that all important mid-bass region.

Horses for courses.

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post #21259 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Question: What home theater house curve should I be targeting for Coach's 215RTs, 215RM, and 8 SI18s?
Judging from Jeff's impressions of my setup and how much he liked my curve, I would work towards something similar to this:

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post #21260 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Not sure about much better off but I suspect you're thinking about efficiency. In those terms I agree but there are differences in the horn that may make the 215RM a better option for some. Also, the 15" woofers may have more to give in that all important mid-bass region.

Horses for courses.
When I was talking with Jeff, he said I would be better off with my 212's for HT. He said they were more dynamic over the 215's? So with that I would assume that somebody not going with the 215RT would probably be better off with the 212's for a number of reason. I agree to each their own. I am just hoping that they give me the bass I am looking for with out subs for 2 channel music. I have a very small room, so they should be great. However for movies, I will need more bass, I will be integrating them with my sealed subs (Crossed over) just hoping it goes smoothly.

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post #21261 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:03 AM
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When I was talking with Jeff, he said I would be better off with my 212's for HT. He said they were more dynamic over the 215's? So with that I would assume that somebody not going with the 215RT would probably be better off with the 212's for a number of reason. I agree to each their own.
If you are referring to power limited then I agree. The "dynamics" would be affected by the lower efficiency of the 215RT. IMHO, and given enough power, the dynamics are comparable up to crazy levels.

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post #21262 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:08 AM
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Not sure about much better off but I suspect you're thinking about efficiency. In those terms I agree but there are differences in the horn that may make the 215RM a better option for some. Also, the 15" woofers may have more to give in that all important mid-bass region.

Horses for courses.
The horn on the 215's is quite impressive and IMO, has already given me the much wider sound stage I was going after. I thought about going with three RM's across the board. In the long run and after some tweaking/eq'ing, I am sure I will be happy I went with the RT's for my L and R.

Running the RT's in full range and having my subs on(with their old settings), I like what they are currently doing. It is exciting knowing what my setup can potentially get to after some fine eq'ing.
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post #21263 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Judging from Jeff's impressions of my setup and how much he liked my curve, I would work towards something similar to this:

Thank you brother! I think this is a very good place to start.

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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
When I was talking with Jeff, he said I would be better off with my 212's for HT. He said they were more dynamic over the 215's? So with that I would assume that somebody not going with the 215RT would probably be better off with the 212's for a number of reason. I agree to each their own. I am just hoping that they give me the bass I am looking for with out subs for 2 channel music. I have a very small room, so they should be great. However for movies, I will need more bass, I will be integrating them with my sealed subs (Crossed over) just hoping it goes smoothly.
The increased Mid-bass and wider sound stage is what I was shooting to achieve by making the change. Not saying anything was seriously wrong with either of those with the 212's, just that I felt it could be improved upon. Already the wider sound stage is evident and I haven't done anything to see what the mid bass potential is yet....but have a good feeling.

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If you are referring to power limited then I agree. The "dynamics" would be affected by the lower efficiency of the 215RT. IMHO, and given enough power, the dynamics are comparable up to crazy levels.
The lower efficiency might be useful to my system. Might make things a little easier to dial in.
I have a decent amp, Sunfire TGA-7401, which is giving me 800 watts at 4 ohm. We didn't crank things up yet, but I feel I will have plenty of power to get things "crazy". If not, I will upgrade the power.
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post #21264 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:18 AM
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As promised, here is a better picture (sorry for the spots, need to clean the lens on my digital camera that I rarely use) of Coach's 215 array. We'll finish the treatments and DSPing on Sunday.

Oh yeah, I forgot to put my initial thoughts on the 215s. Upon entering the room, my first thought was what's up with the huge black refrigerator in the home theater room. Damn those 215RTs are huge. Sound is huge too and I can't wait to hear them dialed in better and with treatments installed on the front wall and on ceiling. So far the sonic impressions are that they are a little more laid back than the 212s but without any loss in detail. Haven't noticed much more on the midbass but we were doing vanilla listening without anything more than settings levels. We'll definitely be dialing up the midbass and watching the Book of Eli Gatling gun scene.

I was just looking at this picture again and boy do those speakers make my screen look small.

Time for a new screen.
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post #21265 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
The horn on the 215's is quite impressive and IMO, has already given me the much wider sound stage I was going after. I thought about going with three RM's across the board. In the long run and after some tweaking/eq'ing, I am sure I will be happy I went with the RT's for my L and R.

Running the RT's in full range and having my subs on(with their old settings), I like what they are currently doing. It is exciting knowing what my setup can potentially get to after some fine eq'ing.
Do you feel you don't get enough bass with out the subs in full range for music in 2 channel or do you feel you need the subs? Have you crossed them over with subs yet for movies? thoughts?
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post #21266 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 08:27 AM
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Do you feel you don't get enough bass with out the subs in full range for music in 2 channel or do you feel you need the subs? Have you crossed them over with subs yet for movies? thoughts?
I am not a big music guy, so I am not sure I can really answer that yet...

I did do some movie watching with them in full range and no subs. It held up well, but I was wanting more.

We might play around with crossing them over with the subs next weekend, just didn't have much time to play around with settings this past weekend.
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post #21267 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 09:19 AM
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That makes sense.

I have a Nanoavr that I am going to use for the first time, with the help of David, on my 215's.
Please keep us posted. I'm in the same boat. I've had good luck with the miniDSP in the past but the NanoAVR and it's software is all new to me. I'll be working on it this week sometime - 212's, S8's, & Cap S2's.

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post #21268 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 12:13 PM
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Carp, have you tried using the inuke to eq your previous 212s as Jeff suggested (boosting the 120hz-150hz range)... if so, how does that stand up to the 215s boosted?
It's just not the same. Yes the mid-bass is improved on the 212's with eq obviously, but that only goes to 60hz. Being able to quickly create a house curve on the inuke and not having to worry about adjusting the sub trim level to go along with it is so nice.

I was able to dial in my subs better btw. I had always gone with the distance settings that mcacc came up with for the subs (that's all I use mcacc for - distance) because it measured well so I trusted it was right. However, I noticed that when I was tinkering that when I ran both the 215's large and sent bass to the subs as well the response became all messed up. I tweaked the distance settings of the subs until it became smooth (also made sure to level match the bass from the 215's and the subs seperately and then together I got a 3db bump across the board).

That distance setting for the subs ended up being 5 feet further than I had always had them set up. I figured that this would be a setting that I would only use when running the mains large + subs, however when I switched to running the mains small and crossing over at 50hz or 80hz the frequency response measured even better than how my MCACC had set the distance.

So, honestly the bass is pretty close running just the 215's or crossing them over, or running them large + subs. However, there is just something about the bass sound that I do prefer when just running the 215's only. I always end up going back to it.

The stooopid thing is I have always said I prefer sealed subs for music - and that's why I sold the ported Caps. Now, I'm back to listening to music with what is basically ported Caps for the bass - go figure!
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post #21269 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I know I chatted with you at dinner about the RT's and from what I have been told you really do not need subs for music, that of course with a good amp and EQ. Unless Carp has changed his opinion, but he has told me you can run the 215's just fine on their own for music and that means allot from a guy that loves bass. I had thought about the 215RM, but after thinking about it, I don't think there would be anything to be gained over my 212's, I actually think you would loose allot of the dynamics. The beauty of the 215RT is that you can run them full range (2 CH) for music and cross them over and run them with your sealed subs. I may be wrong, but from what I am gathering, I think anyone considering the 215RM's would be much better off with the 212's for mains.

I have not changed my opinion, for music it's 215's large no subs all the way!! However, I have run a lot of bass heavy movie clips and I like adding the subs. Why not? If you have the added headroom and they integrate well you have to do it!

Running the How to Train Your Dragon Scene with the 215's set to large and the subs going at the same time gave me more pressure than I have felt in my room, same with other bass heavy scenes. It's pretty awesome.

Don't just trust that audyssey will integrate the subs correctly, if you don't have a omnimic I would get one. Right now the bass is very smooth no matter how I configure the bass management - without having to tweak for different settings (mains large + subs vs. mains small crossed at 50hz for example the distance settings are all the same).

The only thing that screws it all up is when I put a HPF on the 215's but I think the mic2200 will solve that.
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post #21270 of 21704 Old 07-14-2014, 12:33 PM
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All this bass talk with the 215's - to me that's not the thing I like most about them. Hands down it's the imaging and soundstage in 2 channel stereo. I notice this on movies too, but for 2 channel music it's ridiculous and so much fun.

It's not a landslide victory for the 215's though, the 212's absolutely crush them when it comes to sensitivity.

I will find out for sure this weekend if the 215's have enough output when going crazy, I have some of my former athletes I used to coach coming over for the first time and I'm sure they will want to push things to the limits and then some.
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