Official JTR speaker thread - Page 712 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21331 of 31063 Old 07-16-2014, 09:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

With the 212's I went back and forth spending months at a time with a pro amp and months with the avr and in the end realized that in no way did I need anymore power than my avr could put out - and even on rare occasions that I felt like going to +15 it wasn't worth the hiss that I got from the speakers when hooked to a pro amp.

With the 215's I am currently using an Inuke 3000 dsp and no hiss!!! Ha, at least there is one benefit to have lost sensitivity!

I had to change the trim on the 215's by 11 db's, so let's pretend it was 12 db's to make it a nice even number. Well, in that case I would need 16 times the power to get the same spl's that I was getting from the 212's. If my AVR was putting out 100 watts to each (which is probably best case scenerio) then I need 1600 watts to get the same spl's that I was getting with my avr.

I'll never touch what I was getting with the 212's and a pro amp.

I think with an Inuke 6000 dsp that will for sure get me there since it is supposed to put out close to 2000 watts in 4 ohms per channel.


Someone correct me if any of this ^ is wrong.
People keep saying that their pro-amps introduces hiss... however, the FP10000 clone I got have zero hiss (well, until you put your ear up close to the horn, which both the avr and pro amp does have that bit of hiss... so little you can't hear it from 1 feet away).

So, does that mean, the Clone is better and cleaner than Inuke?
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post #21332 of 31063 Old 07-16-2014, 10:30 PM
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Here are some more before and after measurements from Coach's room, this time after we imported midbass from Taiwan via the MiniDSP NanoAVR. I adjusted the graphs to hopefully be more standard based on the feedback above.

Interesting items to note:
  • The center was real easy to integrate. (ONE NOTE: The PostDSP also includes a 24db crossover at 50Hz vs PreDSP which was full range)
  • The left had a major drop of over 20db near 90 hz. Tried moving surrounding subs, closing the port, etc. but nothing really helped.
  • The right wasn't much easier to work with to get a nice freq. response but it wasn't as bad as the left.
  • I started with automatic EQing with REW but didn't like the results so went manual on everything
  • We went with a target response elevated from 150 down and then sloping down starting around 1000 and down about 5db at 20000
  • We didn't get around to DSPing the subs as we ran out of time so they were using the previous DSP settings

Sound observations (215RTs and 215RM with 8 SI18s plus JBL 8340 cinema surrounds):
  • The midbass was really nice; Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene was very nice; Metalica Bluray was great. Some of the explosions in One were PHENOMENAL and made Jeff jump once towards the end.
  • The ported 215RTs sounded great with the subs...didn't notice any issues with the sound integration of sealed subs and ported speakers.
  • The 215s sounded great but we probably tamed the top end a little much and have to do some work on getting the sub levels a little closer. Still sounded very clean between the subs and speakers.
  • Soundstage is really large on the 215s but still not in the same league as the Danley SH50s IMO. Note, I haven't heard them in the same room and we know how good audio memory is...but I'm pretty sure the Danley would take the soundstage award in a head to head shootout. Of course, the 215RTs do other things better than the SH50s too so I'm not saying the SH50s are better than the 215RTs. Nothing is perfect.


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post #21333 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 05:16 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Here are some more before and after measurements from Coach's room, this time after we imported midbass from Taiwan via the MiniDSP NanoAVR. I adjusted the graphs to hopefully be more standard based on the feedback above.

Interesting items to note:
  • The center was real easy to integrate. (ONE NOTE: The PostDSP also includes a 24db crossover at 50Hz vs PreDSP which was full range)
  • The left had a major drop of over 20db near 90 hz. Tried moving surrounding subs, closing the port, etc. but nothing really helped.
  • The right wasn't much easier to work with to get a nice freq. response but it wasn't as bad as the left.
  • I started with automatic EQing with REW but didn't like the results so went manual on everything
  • We went with a target response elevated from 150 down and then sloping down starting around 1000 and down about 5db at 20000
  • We didn't get around to DSPing the subs as we ran out of time so they were using the previous DSP settings

Sound observations (215RTs and 215RM with 8 SI18s plus JBL 8340 cinema surrounds):
  • The midbass was really nice; Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene was very nice; Metalica Bluray was great. Some of the explosions in One were PHENOMENAL and made Jeff jump once towards the end.
  • The ported 215RTs sounded great with the subs...didn't notice any issues with the sound integration of sealed subs and ported speakers.
  • The 215s sounded great but we probably tamed the top end a little much and have to do some work on getting the sub levels a little closer. Still sounded very clean between the subs and speakers.
  • Soundstage is really large on the 215s but still not in the same league as the Danley SH50s IMO. Note, I haven't heard them in the same room and we know how good audio memory is...but I'm pretty sure the Danley would take the soundstage award in a head to head shootout. Of course, the 215RTs do other things better than the SH50s too so I'm not saying the SH50s are better than the 215RTs. Nothing is perfect.


Yesterday was an interesting learning experience. Much thanks to David for spending as much time as he did on things yesterday.

We indeed found the mid bass and it was impressive to me, especially during Book of Eli. What impressed me the most was the Metallica Blu-Ray. "ONE" is probably the one track that really showed off what I have going on in my room. Like David said, we still have some work to do. Bass was probably up a tad bit, but overall the results were to our liking. I think once the bass gets adjusted and the highs are attacked again, it will be what I was hoping to achieve.

Since it has been awhile since I heard the Danleys, it would be hard for me to really comment on them. From what I remember in Beast's room, they were impressive but can't honestly say one way or the other. It would be a nice treat to listen to them in my room to do an A/B comparison. No way I would ask anybody to lug heavy speakers up to my room and no way the RT's are heading back down the stairs any time soon.

As of right now, I think I have enough power to run the LCR. We had things at -9 and then -7 when we were going through demo scenes. It was almost too much for me, but it was 10:00 and we had been up there for a long time working. Could have just been tiredness kicking in. The volume level did surprise me some. Everything I had read about the NanoAvr had said that due to the LPCM setting required to use it, the volume will have to be played at a higher volume than it would in normal Bitstream. Some mentioned up to a 10 db difference. In our case, it was only a 3 db difference...which was good.

I think the RM is going to be a great fit for somebody that is mid bass hungry and doesn't think the 212HT's can do it. Most likely, I would have been fine with three of the RM's in my room....but having the RT's does give me a little more. Plus the "WOW" factor when people walk in my room.

Similar to what I said when I went from the Triple 12's to the 212HT's, the change wasn't drastic, but it was enough to make it worth it. Except I think the change was more drastic in some areas(sound stage and mid bass) but not as much in maybe some other areas. Since a wider sound stage and more mid bass is what I was after, they are definitely the speaker for me.

More to come..
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post #21334 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 07:53 AM
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I felt very weak and know I wouldn't have been able to lift them even with Jeff's help. So no need to get them if I can't bring them down stairs.

I feel better today, and will probably be 99%+ by Friday, so I should be able to get them where I need them.

***I want to love them as much as everyone here as they will likely never leave my home once downstairs. I'm not going in expecting the world. I am going to keep my expectations in check and I will give an honest opinion once I have them dialed in. Everyone seems so excited about the sound stage and imaging of them. But I actually expect that to be a downgrade from what I had before with my Vandersteen Quatro's. I do expect the dynamics and effortlessness at reference to be an upgrade thought. (Better be... lol)

Regardless, these will be my "final" theater speakers regarding mains.

I will eventually over the next couple of years get S8's for wides and Slanted 8's for sides / rears / ceiling (atmos)
I have heard the vandersteen quatros in a treated demo room and it is in my maybe top 5 experiences of all time audiophile wise at least. Right up there with Wilson and magnepan etc.

You are right the soundstage is phenomenal with the quatro but the 215 excels at this too so I don't think you will be disappointed. More than anything I just think it will be a "different" sound than what you are used to and you will either decide you like it or you don't. The quatros gave me that extra something when listening to music. Almost nirvana like. I own the 212 and have heard the 215 and they more rarely give me that same feeling. Then again sometimes they do. But everyone's tastes are different. As a cinema speaker that you can crank to obscene levels with incredible dynamics I think you will be very pleased.
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post #21335 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 09:27 AM
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jedimastergrant - Thank you for your comments.

I am going for a more purely cinema speaker this time, and I think I will like the results.
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post #21336 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 09:47 AM
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jedimastergrant - Thank you for your comments.

I am going for a more purely cinema speaker this time, and I think I will like the results.
I may have missed it, are you keeping your Vandersteens for another music only room? I have never heard those but it sounds like I need to!

Grant, you gotta hear the 215's over here. I may be crazy (Tim too) but I think sitting in the sweet spot in my room >>>> than what we heard at David's.

You better hurry, I'm almost done running through your cash, haha!
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post #21337 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 09:51 AM
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I just stopped in to say I'm really enjoying my JTR 228HT. I had a work friend over last night who never has been around my equipment before. He has his own projector/theater setup - but it's pretty low key. He had heard how good my system was from other co-workers but wasn't sure what to expect or perhaps wasn't expecting what he got. We watched a redbox rental - the Hercules movie (cheese) and played some tracks off the This is It disc. He left telling me how awesome it was, and texted me a thank you afterwards on his way home, and told me he wants to do it again with some of our other work friends who haven't experienced it. Today at work he texted me for information on what it would cost him to get a setup like that for himself.

Nearly every guest's reactions are the same. They all love it. JTR makes some incredible equipment. The two ported Captivator subs, and the 228HT L/C/R put on a heck of a show!



My wife is busy with Bible School this week and I have the evenings off. So tonight I'm having another couple co-workers over, and tomorrow night I've invited the local KC AV gang over. It'll be fun.
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post #21338 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I just stopped in to say I'm really enjoying my JTR 228HT. I had a work friend over last night who never has been around my equipment before. He has his own projector/theater setup - but it's pretty low key. He had heard how good my system was from other co-workers but wasn't sure what to expect or perhaps wasn't expecting what he got. We watched a redbox rental - the Hercules movie (cheese) and played some tracks off the This is It disc. He left telling me how awesome it was, and texted me a thank you afterwards on his way home, and told me he wants to do it again with some of our other work friends who haven't experienced it. Today at work he texted me for information on what it would cost him to get a setup like that for himself.

Nearly every guest's reactions are the same. They all love it. JTR makes some incredible equipment. The two ported Captivator subs, and the 228HT L/C/R put on a heck of a show!



My wife is busy with Bible School this week and I have the evenings off. So tonight I'm having another couple co-workers over, and tomorrow night I've invited the local KC AV gang over. It'll be fun.
That's how it starts. You buy a system, then you upgrade and before you know it, your building a theater and hanging with with guys all over the country that share the same interest I would have it no other way.
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post #21339 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 10:20 AM
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Quick question. Has anyone ever repainted the standard finish? After seeing the pictures of the in-ceiling mounted S8's, I'm thinking of doing the same thing. They are currently the standard black finish and I'm looking to match them to the rest of the ceiling. Thanks!

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post #21340 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 10:53 AM
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Quick question. Has anyone ever repainted the standard finish? After seeing the pictures of the in-ceiling mounted S8's, I'm thinking of doing the same thing. They are currently the standard black finish and I'm looking to match them to the rest of the ceiling. Thanks!
If you're talking about my Slanted8's that I mounted IN the ceiling, I ordered all of my speakers without a finish. But I would recommend sanding your speakers with 120 grit sandpaper to rough up the surface and then going to town with the other paint. As long as we're talking about paint, adhesion shouldn't be an issue.
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post #21341 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 11:03 AM
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I may be crazy (Tim too) but I think sitting in the sweet spot in my room >>>> than what we heard at David's.

To be clear, I was talking about the 215's upstairs, not the sound in the theater. We didn't do any 2 channel music (I would love to some time David, very curious!!!!) in the theater, but the sound of the movie clips were the best I have ever experienced. +10 never sounded so smooth!!

That reminds me... the other times I've gone that loud in my room or in other rooms I've experienced it always seems like the room is crying uncle - I didn't hear any bad sounds, creaks, groans, etc. in David's room. Very impressive.
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post #21342 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I just stopped in to say I'm really enjoying my JTR 228HT. I had a work friend over last night who never has been around my equipment before. He has his own projector/theater setup - but it's pretty low key. He had heard how good my system was from other co-workers but wasn't sure what to expect or perhaps wasn't expecting what he got. We watched a redbox rental - the Hercules movie (cheese) and played some tracks off the This is It disc. He left telling me how awesome it was, and texted me a thank you afterwards on his way home, and told me he wants to do it again with some of our other work friends who haven't experienced it. Today at work he texted me for information on what it would cost him to get a setup like that for himself.

Nearly every guest's reactions are the same. They all love it. JTR makes some incredible equipment. The two ported Captivator subs, and the 228HT L/C/R put on a heck of a show!



My wife is busy with Bible School this week and I have the evenings off. So tonight I'm having another couple co-workers over, and tomorrow night I've invited the local KC AV gang over. It'll be fun.

Sucks we didn't put in the 228's when I was over there - seems crazy now that we didn't - but as good as my surrounds sounded in your baffle wall I imagine the 228's must be incredible. You say baffle wall is a marginal improvement (or something like that) for the audio, I'd like to see for myself if that is right or if you are being modest.

Looks like I can't make it, the "kids" are coming over for sure tomorrow night.

This will let me know for sure if the 215's have enough output because some of these guys are into car audio so I'm going to have to pull out all the stops to impress. Kevin is letting me borrow 2 of his Crowsons - thanks for letting me borrow the inuke 6000.
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post #21343 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 11:57 AM
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If you're talking about my Slanted8's that I mounted IN the ceiling, I ordered all of my speakers without a finish. But I would recommend sanding your speakers with 120 grit sandpaper to rough up the surface and then going to town with the other paint. As long as we're talking about paint, adhesion shouldn't be an issue.
I was Dgage, thanks. I was thinking that I had to sand it first. I'll give it a try and see what happens.

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post #21344 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 03:48 PM
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I was Dgage, thanks. I was thinking that I had to sand it first. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
Just to be clear, you do need to sand first but you don't need to get down to bare wood. Different types of finishes do require different types of surface preparation but in the case of paint, you should be able to go right over with another paint with just a simple scuffing of the existing coat (assumes good existing coat which I'm sure we have here) with 120 grit sandpaper. Of course, there is the potential that the existing paint is oil based and could interfere with the second coat of paint, presumably water-based interior latex but the probability of that occurring is pretty low (even if it is oil based). If you really wanted to be safe, get some primer (Kilz/Zinsser) and put on before you put on the ceiling/wall paint, again sanding lightly with 120 grit in between. Good luck and post pictures.
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post #21345 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 05:35 PM
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I was Dgage, thanks. I was thinking that I had to sand it first. I'll give it a try and see what happens.
For the love of GOD ... please remove the drivers BEFORE sanding and painting ...
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post #21346 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 06:12 PM
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For the love of GOD ... please remove the drivers BEFORE sanding and painting ...
My first thought was what the heck is RMK going on about...and then I got to the second part...hilarious!
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post #21347 of 31063 Old 07-17-2014, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I just stopped in to say I'm really enjoying my JTR 228HT. I had a work friend over last night who never has been around my equipment before. He has his own projector/theater setup - but it's pretty low key. He had heard how good my system was from other co-workers but wasn't sure what to expect or perhaps wasn't expecting what he got. We watched a redbox rental - the Hercules movie (cheese) and played some tracks off the This is It disc. He left telling me how awesome it was, and texted me a thank you afterwards on his way home, and told me he wants to do it again with some of our other work friends who haven't experienced it. Today at work he texted me for information on what it would cost him to get a setup like that for himself.

Nearly every guest's reactions are the same. They all love it. JTR makes some incredible equipment. The two ported Captivator subs, and the 228HT L/C/R put on a heck of a show!



My wife is busy with Bible School this week and I have the evenings off. So tonight I'm having another couple co-workers over, and tomorrow night I've invited the local KC AV gang over. It'll be fun.
Ugghgh, don't have time to catch up on all the posts. Taking time off work to work again...I have some interests in carps sub distance findings...But mainly off what you say J...I set up my old Definitive BP 8060 Towers at my buddies house last night. They are decent little speakers and unique that they are the DT bipolar design but also have a built in sub and amp. So they are a full range speaker. Anyway I still need to do some calibrations for him, he needs a big plush rug on his hardwood floors and some reflection panels badly. But TBO I remember them sounding better than what I heard yesterday. I mean I did have them dialed in when I had them and he doesn't but still. I went home and played my full range Seaton Submersive/JTR Triple 8 speakers on Stereo with some good ol Phil Collins. Dang they sound really really good. I mean I have them dialed in perfectly and all 1st reflection points handled with panels. But it just made me remember how far I have come and step back and appreciate what I have now even if it is not what I ultimately want.
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post #21348 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 08:08 AM
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My first thought was what the heck is RMK going on about...and then I got to the second part...hilarious!
Just a little shout out to Chris Farley ... RIP

Quote:
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I just stopped in to say I'm really enjoying my JTR 228HT. I had a work friend over last night who never has been around my equipment before. He has his own projector/theater setup - but it's pretty low key. He had heard how good my system was from other co-workers but wasn't sure what to expect or perhaps wasn't expecting what he got. We watched a redbox rental - the Hercules movie (cheese) and played some tracks off the This is It disc. He left telling me how awesome it was, and texted me a thank you afterwards on his way home, and told me he wants to do it again with some of our other work friends who haven't experienced it. Today at work he texted me for information on what it would cost him to get a setup like that for himself.

Nearly every guest's reactions are the same. They all love it. JTR makes some incredible equipment. The two ported Captivator subs, and the 228HT L/C/R put on a heck of a show!



My wife is busy with Bible School this week and I have the evenings off. So tonight I'm having another couple co-workers over, and tomorrow night I've invited the local KC AV gang over. It'll be fun.
Good to be in a place where you know what is out there and love what you have. Common sense is a rare commodity in this hobby and while you have fun with it, you exhibit reason and restraint on a regular basis. Good on ya mate.
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post #21349 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 10:21 AM
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For the love of GOD ... please remove the drivers BEFORE sanding and painting ...
Ha, will do!

(I tried to come up with some clever Farley inspired comment but failed miserably)

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post #21350 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 11:44 AM
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2 1/2 hours away from delivery. If I am still alive and well after bringing them down I will take some pics and upload.

I have a customer projector calibration tonight or tomorrow, so that may slow me down getting things done before Sunday night. Hopefully not. But, I am in no huge rush.
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post #21351 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 12:20 PM
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I had the day off from work today, I had put a Forza steering wheel, pedals etc for the xbox 360 on kijiji to sell, as I don't use them any more. The guy that came to check them out turned out to be a cop, in full uniform with the cop car and everything LOL. Our nanny was looking out the window and I kept telling her she was getting deported for eating the last piece of cake on the fridge LOL

Anyways, I had the wheel and everything setup in the HT for him to try out, he gets down there and his jaw is on the floor, he's just walking around to each 215 and the subs giggling. We pop in dirt 3 and he asks if we can " turn it to 11" I laughed and said, may as well go straight to 20. I must have had it 10dB over reference, man it was the highlight of my week for sure. His eyes almost popped out of his head when he was shifting gears and smashing into stuff, it was like you were in the car for sure.

Long story short, he buys all the stuff, gets it home and texted me a few mins ago and text says " wheel works great.... but it's not the same, I feel like I should have doilies on my little girl speakers lol"

LOL I though that was pretty funny. Half the time we had it cranked he was asking do you think the neighbors care? I said no they are cool, he wanted it louder hahahaha

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #21352 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 12:35 PM
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I had the day off from work today, I had put a Forza steering wheel, pedals etc for the xbox 360 on kijiji to sell, as I don't use them any more. The guy that came to check them out turned out to be a cop, in full uniform with the cop car and everything LOL. Our nanny was looking out the window and I kept telling her she was getting deported for eating the last piece of cake on the fridge LOL

Anyways, I had the wheel and everything setup in the HT for him to try out, he gets down there and his jaw is on the floor, he's just walking around to each 215 and the subs giggling. We pop in dirt 3 and he asks if we can " turn it to 11" I laughed and said, may as well go straight to 20. I must have had it 10dB over reference, man it was the highlight of my week for sure. His eyes almost popped out of his head when he was shifting gears and smashing into stuff, it was like you were in the car for sure.

Long story short, he buys all the stuff, gets it home and texted me a few mins ago and text says " wheel works great.... but it's not the same, I feel like I should have doilies on my little girl speakers lol"

LOL I though that was pretty funny. Half the time we had it cranked he was asking do you think the neighbors care? I said no they are cool, he wanted it louder hahahaha
You will be getting text next where to buy the speakers and how to set it all up.
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post #21353 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 01:46 PM
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Jeff will be here soon with two of my three JTR 215's... Silly Jeff, thought he could get all three into his van... Lol.

Third one tomorrow morning.
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post #21354 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 02:17 PM
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Jeff will be here soon with two of my three JTR 215's... Silly Jeff, thought he could get all three into his van... Lol.

Third one tomorrow morning.
Haha...yep...I've nicknamed Coach's the "Big Black Refrigerators" as first thing you see when opening the door to his room is the back of his right 215RT.
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post #21355 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 02:39 PM
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Jeff will be here soon with two of my three JTR 215's... Silly Jeff, thought he could get all three into his van... Lol.

Third one tomorrow morning.
Do me a favor and ask him if he has any Orbit Shifters about ready to ship out... I've been waiting a while.
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post #21356 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 03:08 PM
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Jeff will be here soon with two of my three JTR 215's... Silly Jeff, thought he could get all three into his van... Lol.

Third one tomorrow morning.
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Originally Posted by cvinfig View Post
Do me a favor and ask him if he has any Orbit Shifters about ready to ship out... I've been waiting a while.
Could you also ask about my 215's. ??? Thanks
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post #21357 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 03:24 PM
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I enjoy those stories regardless of what someone is running, as long as it is impressive.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)


Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread
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post #21358 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 04:02 PM
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I enjoy those stories regardless of what someone is running, as long as it is impressive.
Yep thus is true. My favorite is that when people actually hear pro audio speakers like JTR, Danley or Yorkvilles etc. for the first time and cannot believe how good they sound. I myself was never surprised, but happy that I finally found the sound I want.
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post #21359 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 06:10 PM
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post #21360 of 31063 Old 07-18-2014, 08:22 PM
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My pair of S8s from n8dogg finally came today. Hooked them up to the only thing I have available, a sonos zp100. Now I'm sitting here listening with a smile on my face. Can't wait until my triple 12s come and I hook them up for real.
Timokreon and countryWV like this.
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