Official JTR speaker thread - Page 713 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
so there is one set accounted for
No tracking#'s for me, so I am assuming neither are mine.
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:20 PM
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The speaker sensitivity level comparison that carp has done seems pretty legit. 212 vs 215. Omnimic, receiver test tones, and spl meter. Two different speakers tested in the same room, same equipment, same process -same everything.

However the "just for fun" amplifier comparison LG to iNuke 6000 is impossible to compare in two different rooms with different source equipment etc.

I'm sure you guys know why - but just to make clear for those who might not -- -- - If you setup the 215HT's in two distinctly different places with auto calibration or test tones or what not - - - ---- IE - the Fox Theater in St. Louis, and the tiny HT of the month - the Hobbit theater or whatever - - - Reference level in the Fox Theater would still have 75dB test tones on an Onkyo receiver in a theater space that fits thousands. And it would have the same 75dB test tones after setup in the Hobbit theater. Both theaters would experience 'reference' level audio. And while reference in both theaters would measure the same SPL (assuming the 215HT could handle the Fox Theater) after calibration - they would NOT require the same amount of power to play reference.

On the smaller room to room scale - the analogy still applies --- you can't compare "X" above reference in two different places with different difficulties inherit to driving the sapce, different source equipment, different distances, different.......everything.

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Old 07-24-2014, 12:29 PM
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Yup, I kinda said that, but you did much better explaining than I did. I really didn't think about it until after the fact. Regardless, an LG clone vs 6000 test would be fun Maybe that 10kq that Kyle is selling in the classifieds could be scooped up by say, you, or carp and tried out It is 220v too
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
Congrats! Just make sure you have somebody to help you move them into your house.

The RM will feel like a feather after you move the RT's.
Thanks COACH.. That's the part been on my mind since. Lol.. With the 4 S2's, I hauled them one by one by myself up the stairs with a appliance hand truck. Don't think I can do that with the 215's.. lol
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Old 07-24-2014, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
The speaker sensitivity level comparison that carp has done seems pretty legit. 212 vs 215. Omnimic, receiver test tones, and spl meter. Two different speakers tested in the same room, same equipment, same process -same everything.

However the "just for fun" amplifier comparison LG to iNuke 6000 is impossible to compare in two different rooms with different source equipment etc.

I'm sure you guys know why - but just to make clear for those who might not -- -- - If you setup the 215HT's in two distinctly different places with auto calibration or test tones or what not - - - ---- IE - the Fox Theater in St. Louis, and the tiny HT of the month - the Hobbit theater or whatever - - - Reference level in the Fox Theater would still have 75dB test tones on an Onkyo receiver in a theater space that fits thousands. And it would have the same 75dB test tones after setup in the Hobbit theater. Both theaters would experience 'reference' level audio. And while reference in both theaters would measure the same SPL (assuming the 215HT could handle the Fox Theater) after calibration - they would NOT require the same amount of power to play reference.

On the smaller room to room scale - the analogy still applies --- you can't compare "X" above reference in two different places with different difficulties inherit to driving the sapce, different source equipment, different distances, different.......everything.

Yeah I know^, but I bet our setups are somewhat similar. I am 10 feet from my mains I bet Rob is in the ball park and our rooms are close to the same cu ft. Audyssey is of course another variable but that could be turned off. Treatments is another variable, again I don't think there is a massive difference with that either.

What I'm saying is I doubt there are enough differences to have a 6.5 db difference. 3 db's perhaps but over 6 is massive.

It sure would be interesting to test the amps in the same room that's for sure.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Yup, I kinda said that, but you did much better explaining than I did. I really didn't think about it until after the fact. Regardless, an LG clone vs 6000 test would be fun Maybe that 10kq that Kyle is selling in the classifieds could be scooped up by say, you, or carp and tried out It is 220v too
We could have p-lock bring his (my old) FP10Q on the 2nd? I have a fresh Inuke6K ready to play.
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post
We could have p-lock bring his (my old) FP10Q on the 2nd? I have a fresh Inuke6K ready to play.
I can bring my FP14k down to play with if you want
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Old 07-24-2014, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Yeah I know^, but I bet our setups are somewhat similar. I am 10 feet from my mains I bet Rob is in the ball park and our rooms are close to the same cu ft. Audyssey is of course another variable but that could be turned off. Treatments is another variable, again I don't think there is a massive difference with that either.

What I'm saying is I doubt there are enough differences to have a 6.5 db difference. 3 db's perhaps but over 6 is massive.

It sure would be interesting to test the amps in the same room that's for sure.
Yeah, 3600^3 and I sit 11' and running Audyssey off. The db delta is a perplexment.

Opinions are not facts.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:43 PM
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We could have p-lock bring his (my old) FP10Q on the 2nd? I have a fresh Inuke6K ready to play.
My 3000DSP just arrived yesterday, could bring it along. Also got a couple of concert blu rays including the Eagles. I am not the biggest Eagles fan, but I really liked that disc.
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Old 07-24-2014, 04:50 PM
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Little late to the discussion but for what it's worth my s8's measure 9db less sensitive as the 212's. so that also seems to be a wider spread than the specs 101-95=6.

Rob if your LG can drive the 215 that hard I can't wait to see what it does on a 30amp line with the 212's!
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Old 07-24-2014, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Little late to the discussion but for what it's worth my s8's measure 9db less sensitive as the 212's. so that also seems to be a wider spread than the specs 101-95=6.

Rob if your LG can drive the 215 that hard I can't wait to see what it does on a 30amp line with the 212's!

Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the 212's are actually 104.
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Old 07-24-2014, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Little late to the discussion but for what it's worth my s8's measure 9db less sensitive as the 212's. so that also seems to be a wider spread than the specs 101-95=6.

Rob if your LG can drive the 215 that hard I can't wait to see what it does on a 30amp line with the 212's!
Hold onto your hat ...

The 212's and OS's were a phenomenal combination for HT, I was an idiot to sell them but the lure of new stuff is strong so ...

The 215RT's have lived up to my expectations and they are a perfect solution based upon my listening preferences.

Opinions are not facts.

Last edited by RMK!; 07-24-2014 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:28 PM
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The 215RT's have lived up to my expectations and they are a perfect solution based upon my listening preferences.

Didn't the 215's actually change your listening preferences?

2 channel music is where it's at!!
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:40 PM
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Those are my approx numbers too. I like the consistency of Bluray and even CD's as compared to my FLAC collection. Music playback levels on the HTPC using JRiver are all over the map.

If you can get you hands on the AIX HD Music Sampler Bluray (came with my original OPPO) it is a great disk for speaker auditioning. No heavy metal (sorry Carp ) but as a sound quality test for loudspeakers, it is one of the better ones. It also has an excellent speaker setup section. The bass sweeps are great for pointing out room resonances (rattles and buzzes).

Essentially any of the AIX disks (I have several DVD-A's) are great speaker testers.
I once met a guy with a collection of MP3s... he had a software that could level match all songs. Once that's done, whatever the playback device is, it'll be level matched, because the source is now all level matched.

I am not sure if this can be done with flac or not.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:46 PM
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Yeah, it wouldn't surprise me if the 212's are actually 104.
Or the 215s actually 90db
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:55 PM
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Or the 215s actually 90db

Possibly, but I don't think so. If the 212's really are 101 then every speaker I've compared to them is WAY below the rated sensitivity including Danley which would really surprise me.

You could be right though.
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Old 07-24-2014, 11:58 PM
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Possibly, but I don't think so. If the 212's really are 101 then every speaker I've compared to them is WAY below the rated sensitivity including Danley which would really surprise me.

You could be right though.

That would be awesome if we suddenly discovered that every speaker brand out there lied about their sensitivity... haha

And the 212 suddenly becomes the benchmark!
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Old 07-25-2014, 04:56 AM
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Keep in mind when comparing sensitivity ratings, especially across different manufacturers, different methods are used to develop a figure.

For example:

JTR uses 2.0 Volts (equivalent of one watt into a four ohm load) in free space - it doesn't list a distance but I'm "assuming" this is one meter distance.

Danley Sound Labs typically uses 2.83 volts (this is two watts into a four ohm load) at one meter in free space.

JBL typically uses a similar spec as Danley (2.83V @ 1M), but often doesn't note if it's free space, half space, ground plane, etc. As an example: Half space would be some place with typical boundary gain, like mounting against a wall, etc. Funny enough here are two JBL examples: One lists the space used, the other doesn't.

http://www.jblpro.com/pages/cinema/JBL_8340A.pdf
http://www.jblpro.com/ProductAttachm...S4722_0509.pdf

In addition, some manufacturers simply "Calculate" this spec based on models, others are actually measured.

It's easy to play games there.

Last edited by Gorilla83; 07-25-2014 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:16 AM
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^^ on a related note Gorilla's post did make me remember one thing, the S8's are running at 8ohm so 3dB difference right there. So when I sent a -12dB signal through my system the Sunfire was running 8 ohm on the S8's and 4 ohm on the 212 so that would bring the true spread in my check back to 6dB. Sorry guys I may have been off on my first post about this and without specifically measuring the input wattage it is probably a little "off".
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:21 AM
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Hold onto your hat ...

The 212's and OS's were a phenomenal combination for HT, I was an idiot to sell them but the lure of new stuff is strong so ...

The 215RT's have lived up to my expectations and they are a perfect solution based upon my listening preferences.
I am hoping to hear them at SOWk's house. Really looking forward to that. I know they are amazing from Axpona but a fully treated space is going to be awesome.


I think you made a good choice. You have done a good job at leading the rest of us to audio nirvana and dented bank accounts. I may get the desire for more 2 channel at some point but I am really enjoying mch right now!
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Old 07-25-2014, 05:26 AM
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And you will, just need to finish the calibration tomorrow and if I don't run into any huge problems, I will see if you and Jeff and buzzard are avail Friday night next week.

or even just you this Sunday if you are interested and have time.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Didn't the 215's actually change your listening preferences?

2 channel music is where it's at!!
The old "I rediscovered my music collection" is a pretty tired cliche and I didn't really because I didn't have much of a music collection (mostly hirez SACD,DVD-A). Now I have about a TB of Flac files and 2 channel is the best way to enjoy them. I just plop my arse down in the sweet spot and enjoy.

You're right though about the 212's (and in my case the OS's) playing louder. I am very happy with the tradeoff.

Opinions are not facts.

Last edited by RMK!; 07-25-2014 at 07:06 AM.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:27 AM
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JTR uses 2.0 Volts (equivalent of one watt into a four ohm load) in free space - it doesn't list a distance but I'm "assuming" this is one meter distance.
It says this at the bottom of all the older speaker specifications. For some reason it isn't on the webpage of newer speakers even though the astericks are next to Sensitivity and Usable Output.

*1 watt (2v) at 1 meter in full space**Obtainable output with maximum recommended amplification
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:28 AM
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Humm, maybe the LG was worth the price after all.
Absolutely! I think you paid about the same for yours as I did mine. 3k or so for what is essentially a future proof amp (imo) is a no-brainer for any enthusiast such as those on this thread that will have new speakers in and out of there room over the years. It's one of the main reasons I bought my LG. I don't want to be thinking about amps every time I swap speakers. Give me a speaker - any speaker - and I'm good to go.

Considering the money spent on this hobby overall, I think it's a very reasonable investment. Sometimes will be overkill, sometimes not.
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Old 07-25-2014, 07:30 AM
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My 3000DSP just arrived yesterday, could bring it along. Also got a couple of concert blu rays including the Eagles. I am not the biggest Eagles fan, but I really liked that disc.
My copy showed up yesterday, but I had a Black Label Society concert LIVE last night so didn't get a chance to watch it. It will be played in the HT sometime before I get back to work on Monday though, guaranteed.

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Didn't the 215's actually change your listening preferences?

2 channel music is where it's at!!

+1,000,000
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Old 07-25-2014, 08:03 AM
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My copy showed up yesterday, but I had a Black Label Society concert LIVE last night so didn't get a chance to watch it. It will be played in the HT sometime before I get back to work on Monday though, guaranteed.



I want to watch it also, but I am waiting till my room is done. I have a stack of new movies still wrapped that I have been saving for the new theater. It is getting harder, but I want some good material to get started. Should be a slew of good movies coming out in the fall from all the summer movies. Also will be cool to watch some NFL out there. I am getting pretty ancy for some football. Preseason is a few weeks away.
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Old 07-25-2014, 09:41 AM
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you have done a good job at leading the rest of us to audio nirvana and dented bank accounts.
Personally I'm upset with all of the members of this thread for the sheer damage they've caused to my bank account...I feel abused.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:00 AM
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Personally I'm upset with all of the members of this thread for the sheer damage they've caused to my bank account...I feel abused.
Ah, so we are past the denial stage, and on to the blame stage. We need to bump up your program intensity just a shade...
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:16 AM
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Absolutely! I think you paid about the same for yours as I did mine. 3k or so for what is essentially a future proof amp (imo) is a no-brainer for any enthusiast such as those on this thread that will have new speakers in and out of there room over the years. It's one of the main reasons I bought my LG. I don't want to be thinking about amps every time I swap speakers. Give me a speaker - any speaker - and I'm good to go.

Considering the money spent on this hobby overall, I think it's a very reasonable investment. Sometimes will be overkill, sometimes not.
Yeah, I think it was
that pushed me into a quest for an LG amp. It is a one and done amplifier and really allows these speakers to show their stuff.

Opinions are not facts.
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Old 07-25-2014, 10:23 AM
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Personally I'm upset with all of the members of this thread for the sheer damage they've caused to my bank account...I feel abused.
+1
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