Official JTR speaker thread - Page 714 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21391 of 31063 Old 07-21-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Mount a piece of mdf or plywood the exact size of the s8 to the mount, use use the 4 keyholes on the speaker with screws mounted on the MCF/ply. Done! No need to drill holes in speakers. Thats how I did mine to the wall.
Thank you. Seems like such an easy answer once you read it.
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post #21392 of 31063 Old 07-21-2014, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
The Orbit Shifters were great subs but I don't miss em ...
blasphemy!
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post #21393 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 07:47 AM
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blasphemy!
Yeah, I know. I'm just trying to rationalize selling them ...
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post #21394 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 05:44 PM
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^^ that's ok I am doing the same (rationalizing) except for keeping them. and my emoticons are not working for some reason


ok now they are

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #21395 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 06:05 PM
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I posted the following in another thread, I figured I'd copy it here since some of you guys that are getting 215's might be deciding what amp to use. I had already compared the 3000 and CV5000 but today I threw the 6000 into the mix:



Ok, so here are my results between 3 amps powering the 215's full range no subs.

Inuke 3000 dsp
Inuke 6000 dsp
Cerwin Vega 5000

I used 2 song clips and one movie clip, so obviously not an exhaustive comparison but it's enough for me so take it for what it's worth.


Song Clips:

Pendulum - 9000 miles (very bassy song)
Metallica - Disposable Heroes

Movie Clip:

Avatar - right after "these dumb bastards just ain't gettin' it", "send in the incendiaries" scene with lots of dynamics and bassy explosions.


I watched the clip lights intently playing the song or scene over and over again while gradually bumping up the volume each time I played the clip or scene. I stopped when I saw a clip light flicker (they don't really flicker on the inuke, either on or off) and turned down the volume by 0.5 and replayed the song clip or scene to make sure there was no clip and then played the scene or song one more time after bumping up the volume by 0.5 again to confirm the clip.



Pendulum 9000 Miles
Inuke 3000dsp
-0.5

CV 5000
+7.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+8


Metallica - Disposable Heroes
Inuke 3000dsp
-1.5

CV 5000
+8.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+9.5


Avatar - bass heavy explosions "send in the incendiaries" scene
Inuke 3000dsp
-4

CV 5000
+2

Inuke 6000dsp
+3.5



Ok, here is what I don't get. I ran the Pendulum song clip again with a 7db boost using the PEQ this time:




I played the Pendulum clip and fully expected to see clip lights a LOT earlier than with no bass boost. It didn't happen. Instead, the clip light came on at +7.5. Huh???? 7 db's of bass boost and 0.5 difference in headroom???



At any rate, what a massive difference between the 3000 and the other 2 amps. Much more than should be expected. Also, once again, it shows that if someone has a large theater that needs 10 over reference the 215's are not for them. The 212's would have put out 11 db's more across the board. I can test my center channel to make sure but I'm betting that's exactly what will happen.

In my room running a movie scene over reference with hot bass is the loudest I will ever want to go and the trade off is the best 2 channel music I have ever heard do it's a no brainer for me. Also, if not staring at the clip lights I'm sure I could have gone louder and not hurt anything or heard any distortion.
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post #21396 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
How are they sounding so far?
lbrown,


Your speaker setup is exactly what I'm targeting....3 212HT's and 4 Slanted 8's. How do you like that combination? And do you have 2 or 4 Slanted 8's?

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post #21397 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
lbrown,


Your speaker setup is exactly what I'm targeting....3 212HT's and 4 Slanted 8's. How do you like that combination? And do you have 2 or 4 Slanted 8's?
I only have 2 slanted 8's, as I am running 5.1 I do love these speakers. I really like movies and loud clear music and the 212's and slant 8's really deliver. Let "us" know if you have specific questions. Lot of knowledge on this forum.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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post #21398 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I posted the following in another thread, I figured I'd copy it here since some of you guys that are getting 215's might be deciding what amp to use. I had already compared the 3000 and CV5000 but today I threw the 6000 into the mix:



Ok, so here are my results between 3 amps powering the 215's full range no subs.

Inuke 3000 dsp
Inuke 6000 dsp
Cerwin Vega 5000

I used 2 song clips and one movie clip, so obviously not an exhaustive comparison but it's enough for me so take it for what it's worth.


Song Clips:

Pendulum - 9000 miles (very bassy song)
Metallica - Disposable Heroes

Movie Clip:

Avatar - right after "these dumb bastards just ain't gettin' it", "send in the incendiaries" scene with lots of dynamics and bassy explosions.


I watched the clip lights intently playing the song or scene over and over again while gradually bumping up the volume each time I played the clip or scene. I stopped when I saw a clip light flicker (they don't really flicker on the inuke, either on or off) and turned down the volume by 0.5 and replayed the song clip or scene to make sure there was no clip and then played the scene or song one more time after bumping up the volume by 0.5 again to confirm the clip.



Pendulum 9000 Miles
Inuke 3000dsp
-0.5

CV 5000
+7.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+8


Metallica - Disposable Heroes
Inuke 3000dsp
-1.5

CV 5000
+8.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+9.5


Avatar - bass heavy explosions "send in the incendiaries" scene
Inuke 3000dsp
-4

CV 5000
+2

Inuke 6000dsp
+3.5



Ok, here is what I don't get. I ran the Pendulum song clip again with a 7db boost using the PEQ this time:




I played the Pendulum clip and fully expected to see clip lights a LOT earlier than with no bass boost. It didn't happen. Instead, the clip light came on at +7.5. Huh???? 7 db's of bass boost and 0.5 difference in headroom???



At any rate, what a massive difference between the 3000 and the other 2 amps. Much more than should be expected. Also, once again, it shows that if someone has a large theater that needs 10 over reference the 215's are not for them. The 212's would have put out 11 db's more across the board. I can test my center channel to make sure but I'm betting that's exactly what will happen.

In my room running a movie scene over reference with hot bass is the loudest I will ever want to go and the trade off is the best 2 channel music I have ever heard do it's a no brainer for me. Also, if not staring at the clip lights I'm sure I could have gone louder and not hurt anything or heard any distortion.
Hmmm, I bought the inuke 3000 dsp to get started. I guess I made a mistake ? Like I told you, my room is half the size of yours and I think I did pretty good with the good insulation and quiet rock, so the room should sound pretty good. The amp should be here tomorrow. I would like to give the 215's a shot with the 3000 and see hows it goes. I will bump up to the 6000 if needed.
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post #21399 of 31063 Old 07-22-2014, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I posted the following in another thread, I figured I'd copy it here since some of you guys that are getting 215's might be deciding what amp to use. I had already compared the 3000 and CV5000 but today I threw the 6000 into the mix:



Ok, so here are my results between 3 amps powering the 215's full range no subs.

Inuke 3000 dsp
Inuke 6000 dsp
Cerwin Vega 5000

I used 2 song clips and one movie clip, so obviously not an exhaustive comparison but it's enough for me so take it for what it's worth.


Song Clips:

Pendulum - 9000 miles (very bassy song)
Metallica - Disposable Heroes

Movie Clip:

Avatar - right after "these dumb bastards just ain't gettin' it", "send in the incendiaries" scene with lots of dynamics and bassy explosions.


I watched the clip lights intently playing the song or scene over and over again while gradually bumping up the volume each time I played the clip or scene. I stopped when I saw a clip light flicker (they don't really flicker on the inuke, either on or off) and turned down the volume by 0.5 and replayed the song clip or scene to make sure there was no clip and then played the scene or song one more time after bumping up the volume by 0.5 again to confirm the clip.



Pendulum 9000 Miles
Inuke 3000dsp
-0.5

CV 5000
+7.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+8


Metallica - Disposable Heroes
Inuke 3000dsp
-1.5

CV 5000
+8.5

Inuke 6000dsp
+9.5


Avatar - bass heavy explosions "send in the incendiaries" scene
Inuke 3000dsp
-4

CV 5000
+2

Inuke 6000dsp
+3.5



Ok, here is what I don't get. I ran the Pendulum song clip again with a 7db boost using the PEQ this time:




I played the Pendulum clip and fully expected to see clip lights a LOT earlier than with no bass boost. It didn't happen. Instead, the clip light came on at +7.5. Huh???? 7 db's of bass boost and 0.5 difference in headroom???



At any rate, what a massive difference between the 3000 and the other 2 amps. Much more than should be expected. Also, once again, it shows that if someone has a large theater that needs 10 over reference the 215's are not for them. The 212's would have put out 11 db's more across the board. I can test my center channel to make sure but I'm betting that's exactly what will happen.

In my room running a movie scene over reference with hot bass is the loudest I will ever want to go and the trade off is the best 2 channel music I have ever heard do it's a no brainer for me. Also, if not staring at the clip lights I'm sure I could have gone louder and not hurt anything or heard any distortion.
I am starting to think I made really good choice getting the LG for the 212's. I am guessing the INUKE 6000 and LG10k are comparable with approx. 2100 watts/ch in 4 ohms.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #21400 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Also, once again, it shows that if someone has a large theater that needs 10 over reference the 215's are not for them.
Interesting data Carp, thanks for posting. I think it's fair to say the 215RT's aren't AVR speakers but if they are not power limited, they can be pushed to insane levels even in large rooms. I am really happy with the 2 channel performance of the 215's too but it has been a long time since I heard any other speakers and I may have lost the objective perspective .

As for +10 reference ... no one needs plus 10 but I can get there with my amp in a 3600^3 room. That's like driving @150 mph. It is fun to do in a capable vehicle but not very practical ...

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Last edited by RMK!; 07-23-2014 at 07:40 AM.
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post #21401 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Interesting data Carp, thanks for posting. I think it's fair to say the 215RT's aren't AVR speakers but if they are not power limited, they can be pushed to insane levels even in large rooms. I am really happy with the 2 channel performance of the 215's too but it has been a long time since I heard any other speakers and I may have lost the objective perspective .

As for +10 reference ... no one needs plus 10 but I can get there with my amp in a 3600^3 room. That's like driving @150 mph. It is fun to do in a capable vehicle but not very practical …
I myself find that -10 is my range of listening for movies as most blu ray movie sound tracks seem consistent and that is the only source I use for movies. When it comes to music most tracks are all over the place, no matter what source you use. I have found myself at +5 on one track and then back down to -10 on the next. Im not sure how music is recorded, but you can tell everything seems to be recorded and produced different.

Last edited by Reefdvr27; 07-23-2014 at 10:31 AM.
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post #21402 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:30 AM
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I myself find that -10 is my range of listening for movies as most blu ray movie sound tracks seem constant and that is the only source I use for movies. When it comes to music most tracks are all over the place, no matter what source you use. I have found myself at +5 on one track and then back down to -10 on the next. Im not sure how music is recorded, but you can tell everything seems to be recorded and produced different.
Those are my approx numbers too. I like the consistency of Bluray and even CD's as compared to my FLAC collection. Music playback levels on the HTPC using JRiver are all over the map.

If you can get you hands on the AIX HD Music Sampler Bluray (came with my original OPPO) it is a great disk for speaker auditioning. No heavy metal (sorry Carp ) but as a sound quality test for loudspeakers, it is one of the better ones. It also has an excellent speaker setup section. The bass sweeps are great for pointing out room resonances (rattles and buzzes).

Essentially any of the AIX disks (I have several DVD-A's) are great speaker testers.

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post #21403 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:45 AM
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Music playback levels on the HTPC using JRiver are all over the map.
That is why most people use Volume Leveling. You can turn it on in the DSP. You need to make sure JRiver has analyzed all your audio files first so it knows the intrinsic volume level. It won't do volume leveling on songs that are part of the same album when the songs are played sequentially in a playlist.
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post #21404 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 09:05 AM
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That is why most people use Volume Leveling. You can turn it on in the DSP. You need to make sure JRiver has analyzed all your audio files first so it knows the intrinsic volume level. It won't do volume leveling on songs that are part of the same album when the songs are played sequentially in a playlist.
I tried that and I find I am running well up into the +10 levels on some material. Only the FLAC content has this issue.

How do I get JRiver to perform this analysis?

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post #21405 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 09:08 AM
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I have seen the same, it basically will take the lowest recorded song and match the other tracks to it, which seems bad if your lowest level recorded song is significantly lower than your "average" level of the entire library.
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post #21406 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 09:29 AM
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I have seen the same, it basically will take the lowest recorded song and match the other tracks to it, which seems bad if your lowest level recorded song is significantly lower than your "average" level of the entire library.
You can also turn on Adaptive Volume - Peak Volume Normalize, which is what I do. It makes Volume Leveling match volume of all songs in your playlist instead of your library and then raises the volume just under where the loudest song would clip. This provides the least amount of attenuation necessary to match volume.

The downside of this is that if you are adding songs as you go to Playing Now, the volume can still be different since the playlist is being reset as you add songs on the fly. However, it will hold the current volume leveling until a song is added that will cause clipping and then it will adjust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK!
How do I get JRiver to perform this analysis?
Select files. Right click > Library Tools > Analyze Audio. Through the menu it is Tools > Library Tools > Analyze Audio. Your files may already be analyzed and you will see that if there are already results in the Analyze Audio Tool.

You can also set watched folders to automatically be analyzed when files are imported.

You can choose in the Analyze Audio tool how many files you want analyzed at once. This is determined by how many cores your CPU has and the speed of your hard drive. I would test with a few files at a time to find what is fastest. Sometimes analyzing 4 files at a time is faster than 8 and other times it is the other way around.
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post #21407 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 10:01 AM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
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post #21408 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 10:34 AM
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are those specs at 4 ohm per channel?

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post #21409 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 10:39 AM
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Yes. Nathan also said it is 2ohm stable, but is a little happier to operate at 4ohm.
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post #21410 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 10:47 AM
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Do you happen to have any additional specs on the amp? Sounds fun

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post #21411 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 11:05 AM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
I know the SpeakerPower amps are this powerful but are only recommended for bass speakers. Are these amps recommended for full range? Thanks for sharing.

EDIT: And I didn't see any info about the amp on Funk's site. Do you have a link?

Last edited by dgage; 07-23-2014 at 11:20 AM.
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post #21412 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 01:55 PM
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I'm pretty sure Nathans amps are pascal modules... I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure thats what he said that last time I talked to him.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #21413 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 03:39 PM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
You have my attention. My Inuke 3000dsp just came today. Now I just need the 215's
Down the road I will be looking for options. The efficiency sounds nice.
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post #21414 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 04:17 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.

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post #21415 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 04:29 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
Jeff will tell you that if you are 90% movies, the 212's would be a better fit. All around the 212's are allot easier to integrate with subs and not to mention they can easily be run with a good AVR.
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post #21416 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 04:45 PM
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Jeff will tell you that if you are 90% movies, the 212's would be a better fit. All around the 212's are allot easier to integrate with subs and not to mention they can easily be run with a good AVR.
I'm not ready to name a favorite yet...and I will be putting them head to head but I like aspects of the 215RM center and the 212HT-LPs. I could easily see the 215RM being phenomenal, albeit large LCRs. But based on my approximate hour between hearing the 215s and going back to my house and giving an almost reference level demo of my 212HT-LPs, I think the upper end is a little more lively with the 212s, the midrange is about the same, and the 215s just kill in the midbass. Don't take this as gospel as I need to A/B the 212 and 215RM at Coach's house, which we probably will in the next few weeks.
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post #21417 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
I believe I am alone in running 215's (LCR) without separate subs. I'm using a Rane multiprocessor to route the LFE to the LCR's which are also run full range. I'm not concerned with any low bass that might be re-routed from the surrounds although the Rane could do that. The side surrounds are triple 8 lp's with an 80hz cover. The surround backs are slanted 8's crossed at 100hz.

It sounds like the 212's would be a better choice for you.

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post #21418 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
For music 215's only no subs, but that wasn't your question - for movies I've gone no subs and routed all the bass and LFE to my mains but most of the time for movies I have the subs on too and run the speakers as Large. I have it all dialed in now so that there is no issues with phase cancellation, the ported speakers and sealed subs blend just fine. Honestly I am just fine without the subs for normal movie watching as long as I eq in some bass boost for the mains but I do that for music too.
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post #21419 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 08:47 PM
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Interesting data Carp, thanks for posting. I think it's fair to say the 215RT's aren't AVR speakers but if they are not power limited, they can be pushed to insane levels even in large rooms. I am really happy with the 2 channel performance of the 215's too but it has been a long time since I heard any other speakers and I may have lost the objective perspective .

As for +10 reference ... no one needs plus 10 but I can get there with my amp in a 3600^3 room. That's like driving @150 mph. It is fun to do in a capable vehicle but not very practical ...

^ I think the 212's can be pushed to insane levels, the 215's can be pushed to 11 db's less than insane levels which is still louder than I need.

My room is 3200 cu ft. If you have gone to +10 you are clipping the amp or pushing more than 2000 watts per speaker. Did Jeff say it's ok to push more than that to the 215's? Haha, I do have 2 inuke 6000's sitting around... oh wait... you can't bridge the 6000 anyway.
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post #21420 of 31063 Old 07-23-2014, 09:20 PM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
That sounds perfect! I'm betting I wouldn't get any speaker hiss with those either. I can't hear the hiss with the 3000 in my LP, but I can hear it with the 6000.

Oh wait... I have no money...

I will keep that in mind though if I ever have money again.
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