Official JTR speaker thread - Page 715 - AVS Forum
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post #21421 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 09:29 AM
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I have seen the same, it basically will take the lowest recorded song and match the other tracks to it, which seems bad if your lowest level recorded song is significantly lower than your "average" level of the entire library.
You can also turn on Adaptive Volume - Peak Volume Normalize, which is what I do. It makes Volume Leveling match volume of all songs in your playlist instead of your library and then raises the volume just under where the loudest song would clip. This provides the least amount of attenuation necessary to match volume.

The downside of this is that if you are adding songs as you go to Playing Now, the volume can still be different since the playlist is being reset as you add songs on the fly. However, it will hold the current volume leveling until a song is added that will cause clipping and then it will adjust.

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How do I get JRiver to perform this analysis?
Select files. Right click > Library Tools > Analyze Audio. Through the menu it is Tools > Library Tools > Analyze Audio. Your files may already be analyzed and you will see that if there are already results in the Analyze Audio Tool.

You can also set watched folders to automatically be analyzed when files are imported.

You can choose in the Analyze Audio tool how many files you want analyzed at once. This is determined by how many cores your CPU has and the speed of your hard drive. I would test with a few files at a time to find what is fastest. Sometimes analyzing 4 files at a time is faster than 8 and other times it is the other way around.
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post #21422 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 10:01 AM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
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post #21423 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 10:34 AM
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are those specs at 4 ohm per channel?

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post #21424 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 10:39 AM
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Yes. Nathan also said it is 2ohm stable, but is a little happier to operate at 4ohm.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
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post #21425 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 10:47 AM
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Do you happen to have any additional specs on the amp? Sounds fun

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post #21426 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 11:05 AM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
I know the SpeakerPower amps are this powerful but are only recommended for bass speakers. Are these amps recommended for full range? Thanks for sharing.

EDIT: And I didn't see any info about the amp on Funk's site. Do you have a link?

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post #21427 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 01:55 PM
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I'm pretty sure Nathans amps are pascal modules... I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure thats what he said that last time I talked to him.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #21428 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 03:39 PM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
You have my attention. My Inuke 3000dsp just came today. Now I just need the 215's
Down the road I will be looking for options. The efficiency sounds nice.
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post #21429 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 04:17 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.

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post #21430 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 04:29 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
Jeff will tell you that if you are 90% movies, the 212's would be a better fit. All around the 212's are allot easier to integrate with subs and not to mention they can easily be run with a good AVR.
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post #21431 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 04:45 PM
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Jeff will tell you that if you are 90% movies, the 212's would be a better fit. All around the 212's are allot easier to integrate with subs and not to mention they can easily be run with a good AVR.
I'm not ready to name a favorite yet...and I will be putting them head to head but I like aspects of the 215RM center and the 212HT-LPs. I could easily see the 215RM being phenomenal, albeit large LCRs. But based on my approximate hour between hearing the 215s and going back to my house and giving an almost reference level demo of my 212HT-LPs, I think the upper end is a little more lively with the 212s, the midrange is about the same, and the 215s just kill in the midbass. Don't take this as gospel as I need to A/B the 212 and 215RM at Coach's house, which we probably will in the next few weeks.
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post #21432 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 08:16 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
I believe I am alone in running 215's (LCR) without separate subs. I'm using a Rane multiprocessor to route the LFE to the LCR's which are also run full range. I'm not concerned with any low bass that might be re-routed from the surrounds although the Rane could do that. The side surrounds are triple 8 lp's with an 80hz cover. The surround backs are slanted 8's crossed at 100hz.

It sounds like the 212's would be a better choice for you.

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post #21433 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 08:36 PM
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So are all you guys that have 215's running them without subs or with? If you're running without what about the low end from the other channels...are you routing that to the 215's as well? I'm almost exclusively movies (a little bit of gaming) so music isn't an issue for me at this time and I'm wondering how you guys have them set-up. I have considered buying them but I think the 212's fit my room better since it's only ~12' wide and I do like running subs and I don't think my Yamaha CX-A5000 can route low end (plus LFE) to the mains.
For music 215's only no subs, but that wasn't your question - for movies I've gone no subs and routed all the bass and LFE to my mains but most of the time for movies I have the subs on too and run the speakers as Large. I have it all dialed in now so that there is no issues with phase cancellation, the ported speakers and sealed subs blend just fine. Honestly I am just fine without the subs for normal movie watching as long as I eq in some bass boost for the mains but I do that for music too.
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post #21434 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 08:47 PM
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Interesting data Carp, thanks for posting. I think it's fair to say the 215RT's aren't AVR speakers but if they are not power limited, they can be pushed to insane levels even in large rooms. I am really happy with the 2 channel performance of the 215's too but it has been a long time since I heard any other speakers and I may have lost the objective perspective .

As for +10 reference ... no one needs plus 10 but I can get there with my amp in a 3600^3 room. That's like driving @150 mph. It is fun to do in a capable vehicle but not very practical ...

^ I think the 212's can be pushed to insane levels, the 215's can be pushed to 11 db's less than insane levels which is still louder than I need.

My room is 3200 cu ft. If you have gone to +10 you are clipping the amp or pushing more than 2000 watts per speaker. Did Jeff say it's ok to push more than that to the 215's? Haha, I do have 2 inuke 6000's sitting around... oh wait... you can't bridge the 6000 anyway.
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post #21435 of 22791 Old 07-23-2014, 09:20 PM
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@carp , if you're still looking for an amp to use with the 215's and you have the budget for it you should take a serious look at the new amps that Nathan from Funk Audio now has available. Very nice amp for $2300. It's a two channel amp putting out 2400watts RMS/4800w peak per channel. They also have a DSP that you can access with a USB and the software that you get with the amp.

When I was talking with him about them he mentioned that they are very "gentle" on your breakers. They don't trip breakers that much, we had two of them (9.6kW) running at my GTG off of a single dedicated 15amp circuit. His 18.2 sub was pounding and we never once tripped the breaker.

I'm seriously thinking about buy one to power all four of my sub cabinets.
That sounds perfect! I'm betting I wouldn't get any speaker hiss with those either. I can't hear the hiss with the 3000 in my LP, but I can hear it with the 6000.

Oh wait... I have no money...

I will keep that in mind though if I ever have money again.
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post #21436 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:03 AM
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^ I think the 212's can be pushed to insane levels, the 215's can be pushed to 11 db's less than insane levels which is still louder than I need.

My room is 3200 cu ft. If you have gone to +10 you are clipping the amp or pushing more than 2000 watts per speaker. Did Jeff say it's ok to push more than that to the 215's? Haha, I do have 2 inuke 6000's sitting around... oh wait... you can't bridge the 6000 anyway.
I don't get the 11db delta you describe. Specs say 6db (212=101db, 215=95db) and that seems about right to me.

BTW, my LG FP10000Q is rated 2100 wpc and I don't think it's clipping at +10 but will check.


OK, checked and at +10 no clipping. +15 produced a red light on one channel (center) and I stopped there.

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post #21437 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:13 AM
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I don't get the 11db delta you describe. Specs say 6db (212=101db, 215=95db) and that seems about right to me.

BTW, my LG FP10000Q is rated 2100 wpc and I don't think it's clipping at +10 but will check.
It seems one of the specs is over, or understated. In level matching the 212's at various g2g's, and with other folk's findings around here in transitioning directly from 212's to the 215's it seems to me as if the 212 is at least understated by several dB's, where I would be willing to guess its sensitivity is in fact a little closer to 103-104dB 1w/1m. We noticed this at Rilla's g2g's when transitioning from speakers quickly where the trims for the 212's always were the most sensitive by several dB.

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post #21438 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:29 AM
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It seems one of the specs is over, or understated. In level matching the 212's at various g2g's, and with other folk's findings around here in transitioning directly from 212's to the 215's it seems to me as if the 212 is at least understated by several dB's, where I would be willing to guess its sensitivity is in fact a little closer to 103-104dB 1w/1m. We noticed this at Rilla's g2g's when transitioning from speakers quickly where the trims for the 212's always were the most sensitive by several dB.
I dunno but my guess is OE and or poor measuring gear.

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post #21439 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:46 AM
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I dunno but my guess is OE and or poor measuring gear.
At my GTGs we always used several Omnimics (most were very close to each other) as well as at least 3-4 of us (experienced users) present during calibration/tweaking. Mic and speaker placement was very close to exact for each. Operator error or lack of experience was certainly not a issue. The 212s were always the most sensitive of the bunch, as expected. Going off the notes they were +2 over my U215s (seems about right), +5 of my SEOS Sentintels (also seems correct), and WAY over the lower sensitivity offerings. I'd be very curious to measure the 215s in my room as a +11 trim seems like a HUGE difference!
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post #21440 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:55 AM
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At my GTGs we always used several Omnimics (most were very close to each other) as well as at least 3-4 of us (experienced users) present during calibration/tweaking. Mic and speaker placement was very close to exact for each. Operator error or lack of experience was certainly not a issue. The 212s were always the most sensitive of the bunch, as expected. Going off the notes they were +2 over my U215s (seems about right), +5 of my SEOS Sentintels (also seems correct), and WAY over the lower sensitivity offerings. I'd be very curious to measure the 215s in my room as a +11 trim seems like a HUGE difference!
My comment wasn't directed at you, beast or the 3-4 others but rather the person reporting the 11db difference.

BTW, he is an experienced user too ...

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post #21441 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 07:57 AM
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My comment wasn't directed at you, beast or the 3-4 others but rather the person reporting the 11db difference.

BTW, he is an experienced user too ...
Heh, understood. The best thing would certainly be to measure same day, place, location, equipment. I'm HOPING that Dave (reefdvr) gets his 215's before August comes around.
@carp - Did you have your trims in the inuke the same for both? Just curious.

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post #21442 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 08:00 AM
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I am not experienced, but will share my differences going from the 212's to the 215's.

Audyssey had my 212's at -11. Right now the 215's are at -1 and I think -2 on the center. Would have to jump upstairs and confirm for sure...
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post #21443 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 08:08 AM
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jump upstairs
Jump Up Stairs

Jump Up Stairs

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post #21444 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 08:24 AM
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I am not experienced, but will share my differences going from the 212's to the 215's.

Audyssey had my 212's at -11. Right now the 215's are at -1 and I think -2 on the center. Would have to jump upstairs and confirm for sure...
My Audyssey level report was the 212HT-LP's were always -12db. Since that is the max cut possible on my Integra, I installed 10db attenuators and the numbers became -3 or -4. I ended up removing the attenuators and leaving them at -12.

The 215RT's are now -8 to -9 after Audyssey calibration and my 75db level matching (Integra test tones) via my digital SPL meter. That pretty well fits the 6db delta of the specs ... no?

The only wild card here is my 215's were the first units built and Jeff tweaked the Xover after my installation. If that is the reason for the delta, then that was a pretty serious tweak.

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post #21445 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 08:58 AM
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I dunno but my guess is OE and or poor measuring gear.
I measured using both my omnimic and Radio Shack meter placed where my head is in the main LP and the 215 front baffles are in the exact same spot as the 212's. Oh, and there's this little tidbit: I still have a 212 to directly compare!!! Same thing. 11 db's different. I'll have Kevin bring over his REW and Luke is coming over Sunday I'll have him bring his omnimic but I can tell you right what we are going to find.

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At my GTGs we always used several Omnimics (most were very close to each other) as well as at least 3-4 of us (experienced users) present during calibration/tweaking. Mic and speaker placement was very close to exact for each. Operator error or lack of experience was certainly not a issue. The 212s were always the most sensitive of the bunch, as expected. Going off the notes they were +2 over my U215s (seems about right), +5 of my SEOS Sentintels (also seems correct), and WAY over the lower sensitivity offerings. I'd be very curious to measure the 215s in my room as a +11 trim seems like a HUGE difference!

Yep exactly ^. When I had the Danley SH50's in here I had to bump up the trim a full 7 db's to match the 212's and the Danley's are rated at 99. This is with using test tones AND running sweeps and matching them up. 7 db's different.


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Heh, understood. The best thing would certainly be to measure same day, place, location, equipment. I'm HOPING that Dave (reefdvr) gets his 215's before August comes around.
@carp - Did you have your trims in the inuke the same for both? Just curious.
The night I first hooked them up I used only the receiver. I honestly wasn't that surprised since every speaker I've had in here to compare with the 212 has had way lower sensitivity by comparison. I compared again the next day to make sure and it was 11 db's again.

I posted right away my findings with the difference in sensitivity, I think people missed it because I never saw any comments about it.

Yeah, I hope he gets them too that would be awesome if you had them at your GTG. I wish I could make again it was so much fun in January but we are going on a float/camping trip with a couple other families.
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post #21446 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 09:03 AM
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Even my 228HT's seem to be more sensitive then other speakers that I have checked against. The Tempest are 98dB rated and the were about 1.5dB down from the 228's. And even the new 1099's which are 99dB rated were down about 0.3dB.

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
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post #21447 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post

BTW, my LG FP10000Q is rated 2100 wpc and I don't think it's clipping at +10 but will check.


OK, checked and at +10 no clipping. +15 produced a red light on one channel (center) and I stopped there.

Of course it depends on the content that is playing, but I can't go +15 with any content without clipping the inuke 6000 so that is impressive - and also pretty cool because it means if I could get a lot more headroom if I save up for an LG (ha, lots of saving up though).

Do you have the movie Avatar? If so do you remember the scene where he says, "these dumb bastards just aren't getting it, alright let's fire up the incendiaries." A lot of loud explosions follow. If you have that movie would you mind running that scene and checking clip lights on the LG to see where clipping happens? I'd love to know exactly how many more db's the LG can put out than the 6000!
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post #21448 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 09:05 AM
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Jump Up Stairs

Jump Up Stairs



Hahaha, this made me bust out laughing.
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post #21449 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 09:07 AM
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Hahaha, this made me bust out laughing.
Seeing this makes me want to to go out and pick up an used NES.....
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post #21450 of 22791 Old 07-24-2014, 09:08 AM
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Please do the test Rob, it would be quite enlightening! I don't think anyone has really ever head to headed the 6000 vs an lg clone! this would be pretty close tho!

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