Official JTR speaker thread - Page 717 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21481 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 12:40 PM
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I agree. This is all very subjective and that is why many of us open our homes and let people listen for themselves. At least then they have an idea of how the speakers might sound in their home but with the room being another BIG factor, there are no guarantees.


Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
The longer I've been in this hobby and the more experience I've had listening to speakers and getting impressions from other people about those same speakers the more I realize that other's impressions sometimes are very different from my own.

Last night brought that to a whole new level.

Before watching some movie clips we listened to some tunes on Spotify (yes, I know, basically internet radio but it still sounds good IMO). Luke Kamp, Archaea, myself, and a friend of Archaea's took turns in the sweet spot. As soon as Archaea sat down he immediately said he heard no strong center image, meaning that for him the vocals were not centered. What the hell?? For me the vocals couldn't be anymore centered. The singer is standing there in front of me, depending on the song sometimes they sound close and others they sound far but it's always in the center - with some exceptions, I think some songs are purposely done with the vocals off center a bit. I have a Beatles album with all the vocals just in one speaker for example.

When Jonathan was a couple feet back from my main LP then he got the center image, but I get a strong center image even if I lean forward a couple feet and sit on the edge of my LP seat. So weird.

To add to the weirdness, my avr has a "ping" noise to set the distance settings manually. The ping will play and you can adjust the sound of the ping to the left and right, and it adjusts in 0.5 inch increments so it is very specific. Jonathan was able to adjust and hear the ping right in the center from sitting in the sweet spot so in theory he can hear a center image since the ping sounded like it was right in the center to him. However, go back to regular music and he no longer hears a center image unless he moves back in the room.

Now, it's true that I do violate the triangle rule for stereo setup. I have my speakers further apart than they are from me. I like how they sound in the triangle setup but I have always liked them wider even better. I still get a center image but now there is even more separation from the other sounds and instruments and the whole soundstage is just massive. So, it would seem that Jonathan's ears prefer to have a setup that follows the rules of the triangle setup.

My takeaway from this: if person A and person B's ears/brain can't even interpret a center image the same, then what chance in hell is there that they will perceive anything else in a similar way? Pretty much none I would think.

It makes me second guess all the times I've recommended speakers to someone since perceptions are so wildly different.

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post #21482 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
East TN is KC East. Coach, Beast, and I have been helping each other spend way too much money. My wife complains about me spending so much time at Coach's house...but he has nicer speakers than I do...she just doesn't understand.
We just need to get her over one night after my room is put back together..

I need to stop spending so much money, but I still need to so a few more things...
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post #21483 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:04 PM
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All this talk about how to run the 215RT's....full range or crossed over to the subs?

I am not sure how I will end up leaving things in my room.

The eq'ing will be put on hold until this Saturday due to the week of work I have ahead of me.

Not sure how many others have a 215RM, but it has the ability to run in full range and I plan on giving it a shot.

Trying to determine how much boost I can get in the mid bass without running out of head room...

So far, so good... but have A LONG way to go, IMO, to get it the way I want it.
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post #21484 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:09 PM
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There is no question that you should run the 215RT's full range!

Especially if you have the ability to boost the bass to your liking.

I only did a crossover for music, not movies, as I ran my Seatons HOT to "undo" the bass removal that Audyssey did... lol.
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post #21485 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
All this talk about how to run the 215RT's....full range or crossed over to the subs?

I am not sure how I will end up leaving things in my room.

The eq'ing will be put on hold until this Saturday due to the week of work I have ahead of me.

Not sure how many others have a 215RM, but it has the ability to run in full range and I plan on giving it a shot.

Trying to determine how much boost I can get in the mid bass without running out of head room...

So far, so good... but have A LONG way to go, IMO, to get it the way I want it.

Those measurements you posted show quite a dip in the mid-bass region so I'm not sure you can get exactly what you want if you keep the same speakers and seating positions. Of course that's my opinion and I hope to be wrong - especially since you said you can't really tweak those positions....
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post #21486 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
There is no question that you should run the 215RT's full range!

Especially if you have the ability to boost the bass to your liking.

I only did a crossover for music, not movies, as I ran my Seatons HOT to "undo" the bass removal that Audyssey did... lol.
Here is the main reason I don't like Audyssey. I had an Onkyo 811





for few days to try out Audyssey. When I first started listening it sounded exciting and I thought I liked it but very quickly I was fatigued and wanted to stop listening.

Here is why, this is what Audyssey did to the highs (red line Audyssey on green line off):


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post #21487 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:16 PM
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Does Audyssey do that to your highs?
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post #21488 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:20 PM
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No mine does not, but I use Audyssey XT 32 with Pro Kit.

It makes it nice a flat, but I find myself preferring a boost in the bass region, that Audyssey doesn't allow.
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post #21489 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:29 PM
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The Onkyo I used has XT 32, not sure about pro kit, don't know if it had that or not.
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post #21490 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:31 PM
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Pro kit is a separate purchase, about $600.00 and needs a $100 license for the receiver, so no it did not have that.
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post #21491 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:38 PM
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Pro kit doesn't really do much more than xt32 from an overall capability standpoint though unfortunately. You get more measurement positions, and you get the ability to set a LITTLE bit of a custom EQ, but there have been extensive tests that don't really show much difference in the final untouched EQ of either system.
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post #21492 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Those measurements you posted show quite a dip in the mid-bass region so I'm not sure you can get exactly what you want if you keep the same speakers and seating positions. Of course that's my opinion and I hope to be wrong - especially since you said you can't really tweak those positions....
I am still holding out hope that I can make it work and get things sounding the way I want.

If not, I will most likely look at other speaker options.....but I really don't want to because I don't want have to deal with lugging those bad boys down the steps again. lol

At the end of the day if things are dialed in the best way they can and I am still not happy, then I have to look at my own expectations on what I am trying to achieve and figure out if is even possible.
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post #21493 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Pro kit doesn't really do much more than xt32 from an overall capability standpoint though unfortunately. You get more measurement positions, and you get the ability to set a LITTLE bit of a custom EQ, but there have been extensive tests that don't really show much difference in the final untouched EQ of either system.
Exactly why I think I may need a miniDSP to allow my front three channels to get a custom curve.


May have to do an Lbrown105 25db HOT from 20htz to 60htz, then start slowly dropping to flat around 150htz

Last edited by SOWK; 07-28-2014 at 01:55 PM.
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post #21494 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:45 PM
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Definitely. I just got my open drc and have been playing with the software a little before I put it into the chain. Seems quite easy so far to set filters and such.
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post #21495 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I am still holding out hope that I can make it work and get things sounding the way I want.

If not, I will most likely look at other speaker options.....but I really don't want to because I don't want have to deal with lugging those bad boys down the steps again. lol

At the end of the day if things are dialed in the best way they can and I am still not happy, then I have to look at my own expectations on what I am trying to achieve and figure out if is even possible.
Any speaker in those same positions would measure like that I would think?

Can you pull them out from the wall some? My baffles are more than 4 feet out from the wall and measure the best like this - in my room of course.

I hear you, I don't ever want to carry these again!
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post #21496 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Any speaker in those same positions would measure like that I would think?

Can you pull them out from the wall some? My baffles are more than 4 feet out from the wall and measure the best like this - in my room of course.

I hear you, I don't ever want to carry these again!
That is something I could look at doing. Probably would effect my toe-in due to how close they are to the screen.
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post #21497 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
East TN is KC East. Coach, Beast, and I have been helping each other spend way too much money. My wife complains about me spending so much time at Coach's house...but he has nicer speakers than I do...she just doesn't understand.
And I'll nominate Des Moines as KC North....God knows they've helped me spend lots of money. I still remember the phone call with Archaea when he told me to buy the dual S2's. Good advice
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post #21498 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 04:52 PM
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Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.
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post #21499 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Definitely. I just got my open drc and have been playing with the software a little before I put it into the chain. Seems quite easy so far to set filters and such.
I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
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post #21500 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 05:50 PM
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Man I wished I lived across the street, be great to be close to some peeps that share the same passion, you guys have all the fun. My neighborhood sucks. Bunch of high pinky stiffs. I thought this neighborhood was going to be cool when I first got here and and I seen all the guys had Harley's on the street and the guy next door had a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. Certainly not the case and I never once went on bike ride with any of my neighbors and I don't even talk to them. I sent my son over once to go look at my neighbors Ferrari and he told him not to come in the garage, but he could look from the door :roll eyes: GET OVER YOURSELF BRAH. I am moving out of here ASAP. Im going up by Andrew or going to KC.
Yea get out of there! Look from the door lol...Get over yourself is right! People that think they are better than others because they have money or in general are selfish and have a me first attitude is probably my biggest pet peeve. I have done some work recently for a guy here in town who owns a huge IT company and an offshoot big time bit coin minig operation and he is very cool. His wife is a specialty doctor as well and they have millions upon millions! But he is just cool and nice and is generous with paying people and buying them lunch and REALLY takes care of his employees and gives tons of vac time etc...Thats what I like to see!!! I told him we need to build him a big bad theater!!!

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post #21501 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 05:52 PM
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I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
I went with the open DRC because it has XLR in and out and because Nate said he loves them. I have zero complaints. Has been flawless and really lets me tune in the dual SubM's perfectly with a nice house curve.

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post #21502 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 06:24 PM
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Opendrc-an, is that the model to get? You need 2 of them for 215 LCR true?..they don't add noise/hiss to the signal chain ?
Thanks Vince
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post #21503 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.
Any DSP with enough inputs/outputs that lives between Audyssey and the amp should be able to add EQ to the post Audyssey FR. My Rane does that and has mixing as well as EQ.

BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
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post #21504 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.
Coach and I have the NanoAVR and with 10 parametric EQ per channel, that gives you 80 (7.1) PEQs to work with. You can even use REQ automatic EQ to define a target curve, EQing to meet that curve, export for NanoAVR, and import from REW to the NanoAVR.

Since it is completely digital and resides between your sources (HDMI in/out) (Bluray) and your receiver, you can do whatever you need to with the signal and then let Audyssey take over from there.

I haven't used OpenDRC so I can't speak to the differences.
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post #21505 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
I purposely bought a preamp without Audyssey because I knew I wouldn't use it. Coach currently has his turned off using the NanoAVR but not sure if his calibrator, Chad, will keep it off.
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post #21506 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Coach and I have the NanoAVR and with 10 parametric EQ per channel, that gives you 80 (7.1) PEQs to work with. You can even use REQ automatic EQ to define a target curve, EQing to meet that curve, export for NanoAVR, and import from REW to the NanoAVR.

Since it is completely digital and resides between your sources (HDMI in/out) (Bluray) and your receiver, you can do whatever you need to with the signal and then let Audyssey take over from there.

I haven't used OpenDRC so I can't speak to the differences.
Really? it is in the chain between the source device (bluray player) and the AVR/SSP? That's in the middle of the HDMI chain ... no?

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post #21507 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 07:09 PM
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So yes, buy it? Lol.

Will it allow a custom curve without using a mic?

Or do I have to use the mic?

Can I just tell it I want to run 20db hot from 20htz to 50htz, then slowly drop off to flat at 125htz?
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post #21508 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I purposely bought a preamp without Audyssey because I knew I wouldn't use it. Coach currently has his turned off using the NanoAVR but not sure if his calibrator, Chad, will keep it off.
We are going to use Audyssey as a "base" and see what it does. After that, use the Nano to fine tune things and then disable Audyssey if it proves to be worthless..

Bottom line for me is, I am not experienced in what is the right or wrong way to set these speakers up nor have the knowledge to do it myself, so I have to lean on some good guys to help me out.

These 215's have been very challenging to get set in my room, unlike any other speaker I have had before. I just hope they can be tweaked to do what I want them to do in my room....something I know I said in an earlier post today.
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post #21509 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 07:16 PM
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Really? it is in the chain between the source device (bluray player) and the AVR/SSP? That's in the middle of the HDMI chain ... no?
Yes. Your Bluray will decode the signal and output PCM. The NanoAVR is able to stay completely digital by jumping in the middle and also keeps the cost down for how powerful it is. And it is definitely powerful.
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post #21510 of 35614 Old 07-28-2014, 07:23 PM
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Yes. Your Bluray will decode the signal and output PCM. The NanoAVR is able to stay completely digital by jumping in the middle and also keeps the cost down for how powerful it is. And it is definitely powerful.
Interesting, thanks for the info ...

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