Official JTR speaker thread - Page 718 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-28-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
So yes, buy it? Lol.

Will it allow a custom curve without using a mic?

Or do I have to use the mic?

Can I just tell it I want to run 20db hot from 20htz to 50htz, then slowly drop off to flat at 125htz?
Normally when doing DSP work you'd want a mic and measuring software (REW) to find out how the signal is being affected by changes.

Also, of you want to use REW AutoEQ, you'll need to specify a Target Curve and have a measurement from your speaker. AutoEQ will then put together some advanced EQ modifications that you'd export in the format for NanoAVR.

Notice we've hardly talked about the NanoAVR up until this point. Whatever changes you make in the DSP, the NanoAVR doesn't care if it made your signal sound better or worse. It has no mic to figure out if your settings were good or bad...which is why you'd want to use a mic with REW software so you can see how your changes in the NanoAVR are affecting the output from your speakers.

Regarding types of changes, you can specify a peak (most popular), high shelf (upper freq), or low shelf. You can specify whether the change should be broad or very narrow and anywhere in between. A positive change will increase the signal while a negative value will reduce that freq range.

Hope that helps. By the way, you might be able to download the software and play with it without even having the device. You can make changes on your computer and then upload the configuration or if you stay connected, you can make changes in real-time.
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Old 07-28-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Any DSP with enough inputs/outputs that lives between Audyssey and the amp should be able to add EQ to the post Audyssey FR. My Rane does that and has mixing as well as EQ.

BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
Exactly, Rhed uses anti mode and all of us use a number of different tools to get the job done. I could not live with an Audyssey XT32 calibration. Flat is horrid IMO. I apply cuts with my open DRC-AN from mini dsp then run Audyssey which by this point I have a pretty dang smooth response. Then I "un-bypass" my low shelf filter I also have set in my open DRC after Audyssey so it doesn't try and pull my house curve down. At this point I have a nice rising house curve and I still put the submersives on PGM which adds a 3db bump below around 45hz-ish...GO0D STUFF! and fun of course! But I will note I like what Audyssey does just not it's flat mentality. But I get the best of both worlds by using the mini dsp unit and Audyssey together, kinda tricking Audyssey...

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Old 07-28-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Opendrc-an, is that the model to get? You need 2 of them for 215 LCR true?..they don't add noise/hiss to the signal chain ?
Thanks Vince
Yea the unfortunate part of the Open DRC is that it is 2 channels only. But not expensive so...

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Old 07-29-2014, 03:55 AM
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Well nanoAVR sounds like what I need, should be placing an order today.

How hot do you guys run the bass?

5 db / 10 db / 20 db?
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:05 AM
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SOWK, I can help you with REW should you decide you want to measure. In fact I can bring over my laptop and mic if you ever want to try it first.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:35 AM
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I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
This is good to know, as I remember folks were a little upset in regards to the noise from the original units.

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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
We are going to use Audyssey as a "base" and see what it does. After that, use the Nano to fine tune things and then disable Audyssey if it proves to be worthless..

Bottom line for me is, I am not experienced in what is the right or wrong way to set these speakers up nor have the knowledge to do it myself, so I have to lean on some good guys to help me out.

These 215's have been very challenging to get set in my room, unlike any other speaker I have had before. I just hope they can be tweaked to do what I want them to do in my room....something I know I said in an earlier post today.
Be careful doing it this way. Establishing audyssey curve first, then applying additional filters to that curve, then turning audyssey off is kind of reverse engineering your curve. Taking audyssey off will affect the filters you manually applied in most cases, so just keep monitoring your response to see what negative effects might present during the process...
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Be careful doing it this way. Establishing audyssey curve first, then applying additional filters to that curve, then turning audyssey off is kind of reverse engineering your curve. Taking audyssey off will affect the filters you manually applied in most cases, so just keep monitoring your response to see what negative effects might present during the process...
Umm yes, that would be a bad idea. Leaving Audyssey on or off should be based upon what sounds right to you. If you EQ on top of Audyssey EQ and then turn Audyssey off of course your subsequent EQ will be effected. That is why we measure then EQ to taste.

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Old 07-29-2014, 08:02 AM
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I looked at a video of the NanoAVR and it looks very complicated. The was no explanation on the video, just someone adjusting random filters and curves.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:07 AM
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I looked at a video of the NanoAVR and it looks very complicated. The was no explanation on the video, just someone adjusting random filters and curves.
Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
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Old 07-29-2014, 08:24 AM
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Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
For starters I am just going to use the inuke dsp and go from there. I have pm'd Carp a few times and I think for me it is the best option for now. I think when all my work is done in my room and I can sit back and relax, I will look into the nanoavr. To be honest I am really interested in the Funk audio amp with the dsp. As Joe was saying, they were running dual amps on a 15amp outlet full force. I am curious if the industry is going to dsp amps.
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:17 AM
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For starters I am just going to use the inuke dsp and go from there. I have pm'd Carp a few times and I think for me it is the best option for now. I think when all my work is done in my room and I can sit back and relax, I will look into the nanoavr. To be honest I am really interested in the Funk audio amp with the dsp. As Joe was saying, they were running dual amps on a 15amp outlet full force. I am curious if the industry is going to dsp amps.
The iNuke DSP won't work as well as the MiniDSP so I don't know why you'd even waste your time. Just kidding. I like the MiniDSP but it isn't perfect and definitely isn't the only solution to the problem. I'm actually looking to move to a computer running Jriver, which is even more powerful but also comes with some limitations. I'm looking forward to hear how your system comes together.
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Old 07-29-2014, 11:46 AM
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Yes. Your Bluray will decode the signal and output PCM. The NanoAVR is able to stay completely digital by jumping in the middle and also keeps the cost down for how powerful it is. And it is definitely powerful.
Dunno why I continue to use bitstream vs PCM. Must be the reassuring DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD display on my processor. PCM just looks so pedestrian ...

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Old 07-29-2014, 12:37 PM
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Dunno why I continue to use bitstream vs PCM. Must be the reassuring DTS-MA or Dolby TrueHD display on my processor. PCM just looks so pedestrian ...
Well, there are definitely some trade-offs. What happens if your Bluray only outputs 5.1 but you use 7.1 from your receiver? With the MiniDSP, the 5.1 decoding occurs on the Bluray player and then passes all the way through your preamp and out to your speakers. Soon after I started watching Gravity, which I was looking forward to due to reviews of the sound quality, I noticed the rear speakers weren't working. I paused the movie and noticed that Gravity had only been encoded for 5.1. So then I had to go into the NanoAVR and setup a second preset, one for 5.1 tracks and one for native 7.1. The 5.1 sends the side signals to the rear as well. So now I have to check if the rear speakers are playing and switch to the appropriate preset as needed. Like I said, the NanoAVR isn't perfect but is powerful for the price.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
For starters I am just going to use the inuke dsp and go from there. I have pm'd Carp a few times and I think for me it is the best option for now. I think when all my work is done in my room and I can sit back and relax, I will look into the nanoavr. To be honest I am really interested in the Funk audio amp with the dsp. As Joe was saying, they were running dual amps on a 15amp outlet full force. I am curious if the industry is going to dsp amps.
I also ask a few questions about the inuke with carp. And after watching a few videos about the inukes dsp. I really like that one can do changes on the fly. So that you can hear how it affects the sound.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:15 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
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Old 07-29-2014, 01:50 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
Carp.. I just put in order for 2 6000dsp at my local dealer. Seems the inukes are very popular. And the sales manager said Behringer will get a handful in by end of the month. Let you know how it goes when I get them..
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:09 PM
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Carp.. I just put in order for 2 6000dsp at my local dealer. Seems the inukes are very popular. And the sales manager said Behringer will get a handful in by end of the month. Let you know how it goes when I get them..
Cool looking forward to see how it goes for you.

Are you using the 2nd 6000 for something else or are you going 1 per 215? I assume you could squeeze a bit more out of the 6000's if you just had one speaker per amp, but then on the other hand you would have to adjust 2 dsp's anytime you tweak the bass.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:18 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
I had some money in my pay pal and I bought a cheapy lap top for the theater. It will only be used for dsp purpose. I wish now I would have gotten a mini.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:49 PM
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Cool looking forward to see how it goes for you.

Are you using the 2nd 6000 for something else or are you going 1 per 215? I assume you could squeeze a bit more out of the 6000's if you just had one speaker per amp, but then on the other hand you would have to adjust 2 dsp's anytime you tweak the bass.
Yea.. I made out a good deal with the sales manager if I bought 2 6000. So 1 will power both L/R. And the the other 6000 for the center using 1 of the channels. So I guess I have to EQ the center on its own.
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Old 07-29-2014, 02:52 PM
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I had some money in my pay pal and I bought a cheapy lap top for the theater. It will only be used for dsp purpose. I wish now I would have gotten a mini.
I remember when I bought a 350$ LT back in January just to run REW.. Lol. Now I'm gonna use it as a remote for the inuke..
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:04 PM
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Yea.. I made out a good deal with the sales manager if I bought 2 6000. So 1 will power both L/R. And the the other 6000 for the center using 1 of the channels. So I guess I have to EQ the center on its own.

That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:16 PM
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That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:21 PM
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That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
3..
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Old 07-29-2014, 03:49 PM
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I remember when I bought a 350$ LT back in January just to run REW.. Lol. Now I'm gonna use it as a remote for the inuke..
LOL, that is what I paid, $350 NewEgg special. Not bad for the money though. I just use apples for my personal use, most of the software is all for windows, so I needed a windows based computer anyway. Come in handy for tuning the computers on my bikes.
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Old 07-29-2014, 05:03 PM
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He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
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3..

Ah, ok. Really the whole point of having dsp for the 215's IMO is to tweak the bass so if you are like me you won't be messing too much with the center after you set it once. I don't use any eq on my 212 center.

Any word yet on when you are getting your speakers?
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:12 PM
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Ah, ok. Really the whole point of having dsp for the 215's IMO is to tweak the bass so if you are like me you won't be messing too much with the center after you set it once. I don't use any eq on my 212 center.

Any word yet on when you are getting your speakers?
Ok thanks carp.. My speaker is on its way. Should be at my door on the 7th.
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Old 07-29-2014, 06:22 PM
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Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
It is really nice though when you get the hang of it. The mini dsp interface on the computer is really easy to get the hang of. I have thought about trying the LT process with the biquad filters and such. But my response gets near perfect as I want so I never have. I am a believer in my EQ process of the mini dsp and XT32 team calibration. Not sure if anyone follows my process exactly as I do or not. But IMO it's the best possible process if using a mini dsp unit and Audyssey together. I think I am going to bust out my CSL UMM-6 mic and REW out again soon. I havn't done anything for awhile in attempt to sit back and enjoy the system for awhile. Plus the last Mac issues with REW was providing some serious frustration.

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Old 07-29-2014, 07:23 PM
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It is really nice though when you get the hang of it. The mini dsp interface on the computer is really easy to get the hang of. I have thought about trying the LT process with the biquad filters and such. But my response gets near perfect as I want so I never have. I am a believer in my EQ process of the mini dsp and XT32 team calibration. Not sure if anyone follows my process exactly as I do or not. But IMO it's the best possible process if using a mini dsp unit and Audyssey together. I think I am going to bust out my CSL UMM-6 mic and REW out again soon. I havn't done anything for awhile in attempt to sit back and enjoy the system for awhile. Plus the last Mac issues with REW was providing some serious frustration.
A couple weeks ago I put my first Linkwitz Transform on my 3 LMS-5400s and there was a scene in Olympus Has Fallen before the AC-130 crashes with one of the deepest notes I've heard. We felt it once and it didn't feel like the normal shaking of the couch but more of a rolling "earthquake" type movement. The first time I heard it I almost reached for the remote, the second time it hit, I grabbed the remote and turned down the sub volume quick. My LMS-5400s are in sealed 5 cu.ft. enclosures driven by 4,000w so I need to be a little careful with them. Needless to say, I'm going to reduce the LT a little.

I put a LT on Coach's 8xSI18s, a little more conservative than the first one I put on my subs. We watched one of our go to scenes, the start of Transformers 1 and we heard a signal (cleanly) that we hadn't heard before. We didn't hear anything out of place, actually I toned down the bass and cleaned it up some with my DSP work.

So I'd definitely recommend an LT if you have sealed subs...but be careful as you can definitely overdo it.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:42 PM
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He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
I just finished a two week demo with the XLS2500 based on much positive feedback but, for me, in my system it sounded a little sterile compared to my Emotiva XPR-1/XPR-5 combo. It was funny, when I returned it back to the Guitar center and told the guy the reason he laughed and told me that's the EXACT word he used in describing the sound of that amp to others. He said he much prefers the sound quality of the QSCPLX2 series amps for whatever that's worth.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
A couple weeks ago I put my first Linkwitz Transform on my 3 LMS-5400s and there was a scene in Olympus Has Fallen before the AC-130 crashes with one of the deepest notes I've heard. We felt it once and it didn't feel like the normal shaking of the couch but more of a rolling "earthquake" type movement. The first time I heard it I almost reached for the remote, the second time it hit, I grabbed the remote and turned down the sub volume quick. My LMS-5400s are in sealed 5 cu.ft. enclosures driven by 4,000w so I need to be a little careful with them. Needless to say, I'm going to reduce the LT a little.

I put a LT on Coach's 8xSI18s, a little more conservative than the first one I put on my subs. We watched one of our go to scenes, the start of Transformers 1 and we heard a signal (cleanly) that we hadn't heard before. We didn't hear anything out of place, actually I toned down the bass and cleaned it up some with my DSP work.

So I'd definitely recommend an LT if you have sealed subs...but be careful as you can definitely overdo it.
Ok, I will get my links out I stashed and read up again before I do it. Been itching to do some dsp tinkering. Can't go too long without it...

Of course having you around will be nice too I am running dual Submersives. I have had so many calibrations I can't count. So much tinkering with low shelf filters and sub trims etc...When I first got real woofage I had the bass so high the classic big hitters like War of the Worlds or the Looper scene with the kid towards the end were just ridiculous at the MV movie levels. I would always have to turn it down lol. Since I have matured a bit in my process I brush up to the line of too much with those scenes but not too much. They are powerful and the final fight scene in the hulk is just ridiculous!!! But not overdone. Prob around 13-14db hot but I also don't go to reference either. Bass is almost reference levels though

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Last edited by jlpowell84; 07-29-2014 at 07:51 PM.
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