Official JTR speaker thread - Page 719 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21541 of 30542 Old 07-26-2014, 11:56 PM
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ok here is some amperage. I just listened to Great White at -5dB, ohh wait no I meant metallica through the never at +10dB. Let the ORbits off the leash! Whoooops The 212's are even more addictive than the bass.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21542 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 12:06 AM
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ok here is some amperage. I just listened to Great White at -5dB, ohh wait no I meant metallica through the never at +10dB. Let the ORbits off the leash! Whoooops The 212's are even more addictive than the bass.
Hey Ib.. Sounds like your having a blast! You got the LG running too?
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post #21543 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 12:16 AM
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^^ Rhed I am not running the LG, I am just up tonight talking s#@t. No extra amperage running tonight. Wish I was in Hawaii bro.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21544 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 12:22 AM
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Rhed, so you are abut to get you speakers in. You got the speakon sit. covered, and pro amps plus 215's is going to be epic. be happy!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21545 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 02:33 AM
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Rhed, so you are abut to get you speakers in. You got the speakon sit. covered, and pro amps plus 215's is going to be epic. be happy!
Thanks bro I can't wait. Man, I cannot imagine what it would be like once you get the LG hooked up to those highly sensitive 212's. Really, I sometimes wish I went that route instead..lol
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post #21546 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 06:11 AM
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ok here is some amperage. I just listened to Great White at -5dB, ohh wait no I meant metallica through the never at +10dB. Let the ORbits off the leash! Whoooops The 212's are even more addictive than the bass.
Listening to Great White requires having a fire extinguisher accessible since they have been known to burn the house down.
Chris
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post #21547 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 07:59 AM
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Thanks bro I can't wait. Man, I cannot imagine what it would be like once you get the LG hooked up to those highly sensitive 212's. Really, I sometimes wish I went that route instead..lol
You won't feel that way when you listen to 2 channel. Trust me, been there, done that ...

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post #21548 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:21 AM
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Thanks bro I can't wait. Man, I cannot imagine what it would be like once you get the LG hooked up to those highly sensitive 212's. Really, I sometimes wish I went that route instead..lol
It will be like powering them with any other amp lol, the 212's will never use even 1/4 of the power it can throw out. The 215's on the other hand.....

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #21549 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:23 AM
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You won't feel that way when you listen to 2 channel. Trust me, been there, done that ...
Thanks RMK.. That's what I'm really looking forward too. And 80% the reason for the purchase of the 215's. I haven't got around yet looking for good recorded cd for 2 channel.. Though I bought quite a few xrcd and k2-hd cd at the Axpona show. I'm pretty much down for any type of music. You recommend any that's a must to get to demo the 215's? I also started collecting sacd's too. Another reason for the 215's and especially S8's. I can't wait to hear Norah Jones in multi channel. Her voice when she sings is so mesmerizing..
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post #21550 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:25 AM
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^^ not according to the designer, who has heard my set up many times. My sunfire cries before my OS's are at their limit at least when listening to music.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #21551 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:47 AM
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^^ not according to the designer, who has heard my set up many times. My sunfire cries before my OS's are at their limit at least when listening to music.
True, but we can tolerate high SPL bass much more than mid-high frequencies. Unless your room is an anechoic chamber, it will be overloaded with sound long before you reach the max capabilities of the LG. If you move it all outside for a backyard concert then fire away.

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post #21552 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 09:23 AM
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Thanks RMK.. That's what I'm really looking forward too. And 80% the reason for the purchase of the 215's. I haven't got around yet looking for good recorded cd for 2 channel.. Though I bought quite a few xrcd and k2-hd cd at the Axpona show. I'm pretty much down for any type of music. You recommend any that's a must to get to demo the 215's? I also started collecting sacd's too. Another reason for the 215's and especially S8's. I can't wait to hear Norah Jones in multi channel. Her voice when she sings is so mesmerizing..
The AIX collection is some of the best recorded music (2 or multi-channel audio options) by great artists/musicians but the music itself is hit and miss. IMHO

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post #21553 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 05:33 PM
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Anyone know what a good asking price for two triple 12s and a triple 8 would be. I bought them from a member on here last year. I moved and they sat in boxes most the time I had them. I am thiking about sellng them. I am awaiting boxes from Eric. He is bringing me boxes when he visits Indianapolis Aug 10...... BTW I have a sperbourn pa7-350 for sale or trade plus cash in the classifides. I prefer texts. Its easier then logging into all the forums to check messages..... Chris 3179030267

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post #21554 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:17 PM
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Yeah, I think it was this video that pushed me into a quest for an LG amp. It is a one and done amplifier and really allows these speakers to show their stuff.
This video is also what drove me to the Growler Duo subwoofer. As I understand it, there are only a couple of these things in existence and I'm one of the lucky few with one. It goes deep, but that mid-bass punch is really something to behold.
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post #21555 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 08:31 PM
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So will any type of raw 12 awg speaker wire work with the Nuetrik connector? All the raw ones I see online are in wall type. I was thinking of just getting a 100' spool.

Last edited by rhed; 07-27-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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post #21556 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 10:01 PM
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So will any type of raw 12 awg speaker wire work with the Nuetrik connector? All the raw ones I see online are in wall type. I was thinking of just getting a 100' spool.
Yes. any 12 ga speaker wire will do. If you want to spend a little more, Blue Jeans Cables has some nice wire and they will pre-wire the Neutriks and banana plugs for the 215's.

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post #21557 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 10:03 PM
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This video is also what drove me to the Growler Duo subwoofer. As I understand it, there are only a couple of these things in existence and I'm one of the lucky few with one. It goes deep, but that mid-bass punch is really something to behold.
Good point. Now those would be fun to have as mid-bass modules.

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post #21558 of 30542 Old 07-27-2014, 10:15 PM
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Yes. any 12 ga speaker wire will do. If you want to spend a little more, Blue Jeans Cables has some nice wire and they will pre-wire the Neutriks and banana plugs for the 215's.
Ok thanks..
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post #21559 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 08:10 AM
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I went to carp's last night, and we watched some demo clips, listened to some music, and then watched an episode of Band of Brothers. The 215's are really nice! I learned my sweet spot seat is not in the same spot as Sheldon's. His front row distance has him in the sweet spot to his ears, but the sweet spot to me was a couple feet back. The back row center was a better sweet spot to my ears (for stereo listening). In his front seat I just heard left and right speakers blooming sound in a whole front wall sort of way (which I did like) - like the entire front wall was covered with speakers - but no real focused center channel sound. To get the focused center channel sound most seem to strive for in stereo listening - 2 foot or 3 foot back was where it resolved for me. So we had some discussion on that because there were four people there and I think I was the only one who needed to be further back to hear the traditional sweet spot sound. Not sure what that means - but interesting.

I also finally got to experience the crowsons played for all they were worth. They are excellent, but I'd still call them subtle until you let them loose or play really low effect like 7hz in the Bass I Love you song which can really make you move. I personally felt his eight 18's were worth about 40% of the shake of the two crowsons maxed on most of the material at whatever spl level he had them (on concrete floor). (the subs were hot - how hot I don't know). I felt the wood riser in the back of the room was 60% of the crowson shake. The crowsons are really excellent - I agree you can't really tell they are artificial shake. Sheldon says his guests can't tell he even has the crowsons unless he tells them or shows them. I totally believe it. The 40hz LPF he had assigned to them seemed to do the trick. My buttkicker minis are much stronger tactilly - but don't dig anywhere near as deep. They'd mechanically bottom out audibly if I tried going anywhere near those shake levels down low, but my buttkickers minis are much stronger up high. We put a 80hz lpf on the Crowsons to play with on a few back and forth demo scenes. The buttkickers can feel very artificial if not dialed in right since they are with the higher bass. The crowsons, apparently are more forgiving. Crowsons are much better than the buttkickers, but I actually think both might be enjoyable. Crowsons for 35hz and below and Buttkickers for 35hz and above - that might just be a solid option!

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Last edited by Archaea; 07-28-2014 at 08:14 AM.
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post #21560 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 10:13 AM
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Well, finally sat down and took a listen....

Very good dynamics, good sound stage, I am running at flat right now, but listening to the 212HT's at Lbrown105's I may need to figure out a way to do a plus 20 bd boost to the bass on the mains... lol.

Flat is sounding, well flat... when I run my Seatons 10db hot and cross the 215RT's over at 80htz I get a lot of punch... hehe.

good news - With no EQ corrections the mid-bass is really powerful with the 215RT's. With EQ, it tames a lot of it out. So, I may need to find a way to do an external processor to boost from 150htz down.


Audyssey really needs to find a way to offer user adjustable curves.

Even with the Pro kit I have, I can only adj +3 DB max from 150htz and down.


Also, I easily get usable bass to under 10htz in my room with just the 215RT's...

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post #21561 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 10:28 AM
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Well, finally sat down and took a listen....

Very good dynamics, good sound stage, I am running at flat right now, but listening to the 212HT's at Lbrown105's I may need to figure out a way to do a plus 20 bd boost to the bass on the mains... lol.

Flat is sounding, well flat... when I run my Seatons 10db hot and cross the 215RT's over at 80htz I get a lot of punch... hehe.

good news - With no EQ corrections the mid-bass is really powerful with the 215RT's. With EQ, it tames a lot of it out. So, I may need to find a way to do an external processor to boost from 150htz down.


Audyssey really needs to find a way to offer user adjustable curves.

Even with the Pro kit I have, I can only adj +3 DB max from 150Htz and down.
Well a couple of things. How do they compare to your old Vandersteen's? What are you using for EQ? This is also the first post I have read that someone has crossed the 215's over to 80hz with subs. I hope this sounds right, but I would not try and compare Lbrowns system as everybody runs the 212's crossed with big bass, that is a different animal. I believe Carp is using the simplest method right now to increase the bass with a house curve that you can do with the Inuke amp. The inuke was not my first choice, but I winded up getting a 3000dsp as I like simple. My plan is to run the 215's in full range win 2ch stereo for music and crossed at 80 with movies.

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post #21562 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 10:33 AM
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I went to carp's last night, and we watched some demo clips, listened to some music, and then watched an episode of Band of Brothers. The 215's are really nice! I learned my sweet spot seat is not in the same spot as Sheldon's. His front row distance has him in the sweet spot to his ears, but the sweet spot to me was a couple feet back. The back row center was a better sweet spot to my ears (for stereo listening). In his front seat I just heard left and right speakers blooming sound in a whole front wall sort of way (which I did like) - like the entire front wall was covered with speakers - but no real focused center channel sound. To get the focused center channel sound most seem to strive for in stereo listening - 2 foot or 3 foot back was where it resolved for me. So we had some discussion on that because there were four people there and I think I was the only one who needed to be further back to hear the traditional sweet spot sound. Not sure what that means - but interesting.


The longer I've been in this hobby and the more experience I've had listening to speakers and getting impressions from other people about those same speakers the more I realize that other's impressions sometimes are very different from my own.

Last night brought that to a whole new level.

Before watching some movie clips we listened to some tunes on Spotify (yes, I know, basically internet radio but it still sounds good IMO). Luke Kamp, Archaea, myself, and a friend of Archaea's took turns in the sweet spot. As soon as Archaea sat down he immediately said he heard no strong center image, meaning that for him the vocals were not centered. What the hell?? For me the vocals couldn't be anymore centered. The singer is standing there in front of me, depending on the song sometimes they sound close and others they sound far but it's always in the center - with some exceptions, I think some songs are purposely done with the vocals off center a bit. I have a Beatles album with all the vocals just in one speaker for example.

When Jonathan was a couple feet back from my main LP then he got the center image, but I get a strong center image even if I lean forward a couple feet and sit on the edge of my LP seat. So weird.

To add to the weirdness, my avr has a "ping" noise to set the distance settings manually. The ping will play and you can adjust the sound of the ping to the left and right, and it adjusts in 0.5 inch increments so it is very specific. Jonathan was able to adjust and hear the ping right in the center from sitting in the sweet spot so in theory he can hear a center image since the ping sounded like it was right in the center to him. However, go back to regular music and he no longer hears a center image unless he moves back in the room.

Now, it's true that I do violate the triangle rule for stereo setup. I have my speakers further apart than they are from me. I like how they sound in the triangle setup but I have always liked them wider even better. I still get a center image but now there is even more separation from the other sounds and instruments and the whole soundstage is just massive. So, it would seem that Jonathan's ears prefer to have a setup that follows the rules of the triangle setup.

My takeaway from this: if person A and person B's ears/brain can't even interpret a center image the same, then what chance in hell is there that they will perceive anything else in a similar way? Pretty much none I would think.

It makes me second guess all the times I've recommended speakers to someone since perceptions are so wildly different.
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post #21563 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 10:41 AM
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Well, finally sat down and took a listen....

Very good dynamics, good sound stage, I am running at flat right now, but listening to the 212HT's at Lbrown105's I may need to figure out a way to do a plus 20 bd boost to the bass on the mains... lol.

Flat is sounding, well flat... when I run my Seatons 10db hot and cross the 215RT's over at 80htz I get a lot of punch... hehe.

good news - With no EQ corrections the mid-bass is really powerful with the 215RT's. With EQ, it tames a lot of it out. So, I may need to find a way to do an external processor to boost from 150htz down.


Audyssey really needs to find a way to offer user adjustable curves.

Even with the Pro kit I have, I can only adj +3 DB max from 150htz and down.


Also, I easily get usable bass to under 10htz in my room with just the 215RT's...


I am not a fan of Audyssey. My 215's measure "hot" in my room with no bass boost applied and I still want the bass boosted, I can't imagine how bass weak they would sound with Audyssey making them actually flat.

If I didn't have the inuke dsp to tweak the bass I wouldn't be running them full range because I have to have a way to tweak the bass. There are some songs I'll go flat with no boost (Pink Floyd) but for most things I want different levels of boost depending on what I'm playing.

My advice is to get a minidsp, that way you could use your current amp (what amp do you have?) and still tweak the bass exactly how you like it.

Using the 215's full range with no DSP and expecting impressive bass would be just like crossing over a pair of speakers at 80hz but having the subs eq'd to flat and NEVER having the ability to turn up the volume of the subs. This = no good.

Wow, you have even better room gain than I do, I'm good down to 12 hz. It really doesn't matter thought since Jeff says to run a HPF at 17hz.
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post #21564 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 10:53 AM
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The longer I've been in this hobby and the more experience I've had listening to speakers and getting impressions from other people about those same speakers the more I realize that other's impressions sometimes are very different from my own.

Last night brought that to a whole new level.

Before watching some movie clips we listened to some tunes on Spotify (yes, I know, basically internet radio but it still sounds good IMO). Luke Kamp, Archaea, myself, and a friend of Archaea's took turns in the sweet spot. As soon as Archaea sat down he immediately said he heard no strong center image, meaning that for him the vocals were not centered. What the hell?? For me the vocals couldn't be anymore centered. The singer is standing there in front of me, depending on the song sometimes they sound close and others they sound far but it's always in the center - with some exceptions, I think some songs are purposely done with the vocals off center a bit. I have a Beatles album with all the vocals just in one speaker for example.

When Jonathan was a couple feet back from my main LP then he got the center image, but I get a strong center image even if I lean forward a couple feet and sit on the edge of my LP seat. So weird.

To add to the weirdness, my avr has a "ping" noise to set the distance settings manually. The ping will play and you can adjust the sound of the ping to the left and right, and it adjusts in 0.5 inch increments so it is very specific. Jonathan was able to adjust and hear the ping right in the center from sitting in the sweet spot so in theory he can hear a center image since the ping sounded like it was right in the center to him. However, go back to regular music and he no longer hears a center image unless he moves back in the room.

Now, it's true that I do violate the triangle rule for stereo setup. I have my speakers further apart than they are from me. I like how they sound in the triangle setup but I have always liked them wider even better. I still get a center image but now there is even more separation from the other sounds and instruments and the whole soundstage is just massive. So, it would seem that Jonathan's ears prefer to have a setup that follows the rules of the triangle setup.

My takeaway from this: if person A and person B's ears/brain can't even interpret a center image the same, then what chance in hell is there that they will perceive anything else in a similar way? Pretty much none I would think.

It makes me second guess all the times I've recommended speakers to someone since perceptions are so wildly different.
Man I wished I lived across the street, be great to be close to some peeps that share the same passion, you guys have all the fun. My neighborhood sucks. Bunch of high pinky stiffs. I thought this neighborhood was going to be cool when I first got here and and I seen all the guys had Harley's on the street and the guy next door had a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. Certainly not the case and I never once went on bike ride with any of my neighbors and I don't even talk to them. I sent my son over once to go look at my neighbors Ferrari and he told him not to come in the garage, but he could look from the door :roll eyes: GET OVER YOURSELF BRAH. I am moving out of here ASAP. Im going up by Andrew or going to KC.
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Last edited by Reefdvr27; 07-28-2014 at 10:57 AM.
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post #21565 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I am not a fan of Audyssey. My 215's measure "hot" in my room with no bass boost applied and I still want the bass boosted, I can't imagine how bass weak they would sound with Audyssey making them actually flat.

If I didn't have the inuke dsp to tweak the bass I wouldn't be running them full range because I have to have a way to tweak the bass. There are some songs I'll go flat with no boost (Pink Floyd) but for most things I want different levels of boost depending on what I'm playing.

My advice is to get a minidsp, that way you could use your current amp (what amp do you have?) and still tweak the bass exactly how you like it.

Using the 215's full range with no DSP and expecting impressive bass would be just like crossing over a pair of speakers at 80hz but having the subs eq'd to flat and NEVER having the ability to turn up the volume of the subs. This = no good.

Wow, you have even better room gain than I do, I'm good down to 12 hz. It really doesn't matter thought since Jeff says to run a HPF at 17hz.

Yup, that's what I am saying, Audyssey is eating up a lot of the extra mid-bass slam and bass by making them flat.

I still like what audyssey does overall, but I will need to find a way to do a house curve like you said in the end.

A miniDSP may be in my future soon....


In comparison to the Vandersteens...

I would still take the Vandersteen for music over the 215rt's when listening at lower volumes.

The Vandersteen Quatro's have a larger more realistic sound stage, tighter imaging, and a tweeter sound that's not quite as bright.

But once you hit reference the JTR 215'st out shine the Vandersteen's in my larger room with pure dynamics and clarity, without getting a collapsing sound stage like the Vandersteens would if played that loud in my room.

But I got the JTR 215RT's primarily for Movies and to play at reference, and that's where they shine.

I am using the Parasound Halo A31 for my three JTR 215RT's

Last edited by SOWK; 07-28-2014 at 11:21 AM.
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post #21566 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 11:24 AM
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@Gorilla83 doesn't have Bojangles or Waffle House

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post #21567 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 11:47 AM
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@Gorilla83 doesn't have Bojangles or Waffle House
Good point, I'm going to Asheville Good peeps down there to.
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post #21568 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Man I wished I lived across the street, be great to be close to some peeps that share the same passion, you guys have all the fun. My neighborhood sucks. Bunch of high pinky stiffs. I thought this neighborhood was going to be cool when I first got here and and I seen all the guys had Harley's on the street and the guy next door had a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. Certainly not the case and I never once went on bike ride with any of my neighbors and I don't even talk to them. I sent my son over once to go look at my neighbors Ferrari and he told him not to come in the garage, but he could look from the door :roll eyes: GET OVER YOURSELF BRAH. I am moving out of here ASAP. Im going up by Andrew or going to KC.
My actual neighborhood isn't the best either. People are friendly enough, but not enough kids for ours to play with since all the younger families in KC move to the newer areas where you can get more house for your money.

We have been here 12 years and aren't moving but I am jealous of some of my friends down south. One of my good friends has multiple neighbors that have all become close, they have movie nights in the driveway with a projector (sometimes I bring mine) and half the dead end street shows up. Theirs kids everywhere playing and having a blast, our kids love going there.

Still, it's very cool to have a group of avs guys close enough to hang out on a somewhat similar basis. d_c just had me and my 2 daughters out on his boat after checking out his awesome system (2 G Horns) last Wednesday, that was a blast and the girls loved tubing and playing with his daughter and friend.
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post #21569 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 12:01 PM
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@Gorilla83 doesn't have Bojangles or Waffle House
Doesn't every exit off of every highway in the United States have a Waffle House?

Seriously, when the family drove to Disneyland last November we saw more Waffle Houses than anything else - by a LOT. It felt like every 10 miles or so my wife or I would spot one, "waffle house!"
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post #21570 of 30542 Old 07-28-2014, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Good point, I'm going to Asheville Good peeps down there to.
East TN is KC East. Coach, Beast, and I have been helping each other spend way too much money. My wife complains about me spending so much time at Coach's house...but he has nicer speakers than I do...she just doesn't understand.
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