Official JTR speaker thread - Page 721 - AVS Forum
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post #21601 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Those measurements you posted show quite a dip in the mid-bass region so I'm not sure you can get exactly what you want if you keep the same speakers and seating positions. Of course that's my opinion and I hope to be wrong - especially since you said you can't really tweak those positions....
I am still holding out hope that I can make it work and get things sounding the way I want.

If not, I will most likely look at other speaker options.....but I really don't want to because I don't want have to deal with lugging those bad boys down the steps again. lol

At the end of the day if things are dialed in the best way they can and I am still not happy, then I have to look at my own expectations on what I am trying to achieve and figure out if is even possible.
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post #21602 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Pro kit doesn't really do much more than xt32 from an overall capability standpoint though unfortunately. You get more measurement positions, and you get the ability to set a LITTLE bit of a custom EQ, but there have been extensive tests that don't really show much difference in the final untouched EQ of either system.
Exactly why I think I may need a miniDSP to allow my front three channels to get a custom curve.


May have to do an Lbrown105 25db HOT from 20htz to 60htz, then start slowly dropping to flat around 150htz


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post #21603 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 01:45 PM
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Definitely. I just got my open drc and have been playing with the software a little before I put it into the chain. Seems quite easy so far to set filters and such.

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post #21604 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
I am still holding out hope that I can make it work and get things sounding the way I want.

If not, I will most likely look at other speaker options.....but I really don't want to because I don't want have to deal with lugging those bad boys down the steps again. lol

At the end of the day if things are dialed in the best way they can and I am still not happy, then I have to look at my own expectations on what I am trying to achieve and figure out if is even possible.
Any speaker in those same positions would measure like that I would think?

Can you pull them out from the wall some? My baffles are more than 4 feet out from the wall and measure the best like this - in my room of course.

I hear you, I don't ever want to carry these again!


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post #21605 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Any speaker in those same positions would measure like that I would think?

Can you pull them out from the wall some? My baffles are more than 4 feet out from the wall and measure the best like this - in my room of course.

I hear you, I don't ever want to carry these again!
That is something I could look at doing. Probably would effect my toe-in due to how close they are to the screen.
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post #21606 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
East TN is KC East. Coach, Beast, and I have been helping each other spend way too much money. My wife complains about me spending so much time at Coach's house...but he has nicer speakers than I do...she just doesn't understand.
And I'll nominate Des Moines as KC North....God knows they've helped me spend lots of money. I still remember the phone call with Archaea when he told me to buy the dual S2's. Good advice
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post #21607 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 04:52 PM
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Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.


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post #21608 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Definitely. I just got my open drc and have been playing with the software a little before I put it into the chain. Seems quite easy so far to set filters and such.
I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
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post #21609 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 05:50 PM
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Man I wished I lived across the street, be great to be close to some peeps that share the same passion, you guys have all the fun. My neighborhood sucks. Bunch of high pinky stiffs. I thought this neighborhood was going to be cool when I first got here and and I seen all the guys had Harley's on the street and the guy next door had a Lamborghini and a Ferrari. Certainly not the case and I never once went on bike ride with any of my neighbors and I don't even talk to them. I sent my son over once to go look at my neighbors Ferrari and he told him not to come in the garage, but he could look from the door :roll eyes: GET OVER YOURSELF BRAH. I am moving out of here ASAP. Im going up by Andrew or going to KC.
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post #21610 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
I went with the open DRC because it has XLR in and out and because Nate said he loves them. I have zero complaints. Has been flawless and really lets me tune in the dual SubM's perfectly with a nice house curve.

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post #21611 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 06:24 PM
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Opendrc-an, is that the model to get? You need 2 of them for 215 LCR true?..they don't add noise/hiss to the signal chain ?
Thanks Vince
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post #21612 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.
Any DSP with enough inputs/outputs that lives between Audyssey and the amp should be able to add EQ to the post Audyssey FR. My Rane does that and has mixing as well as EQ.

BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
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post #21613 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Does anyone know if the minidsp nanoAVR can do custom curves for my front three channels?

And can it do it without using any other feature from the unit? I still want to use Audyssey as the room correction, just want the custom curves only.
Coach and I have the NanoAVR and with 10 parametric EQ per channel, that gives you 80 (7.1) PEQs to work with. You can even use REQ automatic EQ to define a target curve, EQing to meet that curve, export for NanoAVR, and import from REW to the NanoAVR.

Since it is completely digital and resides between your sources (HDMI in/out) (Bluray) and your receiver, you can do whatever you need to with the signal and then let Audyssey take over from there.

I haven't used OpenDRC so I can't speak to the differences.
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post #21614 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
I purposely bought a preamp without Audyssey because I knew I wouldn't use it. Coach currently has his turned off using the NanoAVR but not sure if his calibrator, Chad, will keep it off.
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post #21615 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Coach and I have the NanoAVR and with 10 parametric EQ per channel, that gives you 80 (7.1) PEQs to work with. You can even use REQ automatic EQ to define a target curve, EQing to meet that curve, export for NanoAVR, and import from REW to the NanoAVR.

Since it is completely digital and resides between your sources (HDMI in/out) (Bluray) and your receiver, you can do whatever you need to with the signal and then let Audyssey take over from there.

I haven't used OpenDRC so I can't speak to the differences.
Really? it is in the chain between the source device (bluray player) and the AVR/SSP? That's in the middle of the HDMI chain ... no?


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post #21616 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:09 PM
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So yes, buy it? Lol.

Will it allow a custom curve without using a mic?

Or do I have to use the mic?

Can I just tell it I want to run 20db hot from 20htz to 50htz, then slowly drop off to flat at 125htz?


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post #21617 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I purposely bought a preamp without Audyssey because I knew I wouldn't use it. Coach currently has his turned off using the NanoAVR but not sure if his calibrator, Chad, will keep it off.
We are going to use Audyssey as a "base" and see what it does. After that, use the Nano to fine tune things and then disable Audyssey if it proves to be worthless..

Bottom line for me is, I am not experienced in what is the right or wrong way to set these speakers up nor have the knowledge to do it myself, so I have to lean on some good guys to help me out.

These 215's have been very challenging to get set in my room, unlike any other speaker I have had before. I just hope they can be tweaked to do what I want them to do in my room....something I know I said in an earlier post today.
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post #21618 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:16 PM
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Really? it is in the chain between the source device (bluray player) and the AVR/SSP? That's in the middle of the HDMI chain ... no?
Yes. Your Bluray will decode the signal and output PCM. The NanoAVR is able to stay completely digital by jumping in the middle and also keeps the cost down for how powerful it is. And it is definitely powerful.
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post #21619 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:23 PM
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Yes. Your Bluray will decode the signal and output PCM. The NanoAVR is able to stay completely digital by jumping in the middle and also keeps the cost down for how powerful it is. And it is definitely powerful.
Interesting, thanks for the info ...


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post #21620 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
So yes, buy it? Lol.

Will it allow a custom curve without using a mic?

Or do I have to use the mic?

Can I just tell it I want to run 20db hot from 20htz to 50htz, then slowly drop off to flat at 125htz?
Normally when doing DSP work you'd want a mic and measuring software (REW) to find out how the signal is being affected by changes.

Also, of you want to use REW AutoEQ, you'll need to specify a Target Curve and have a measurement from your speaker. AutoEQ will then put together some advanced EQ modifications that you'd export in the format for NanoAVR.

Notice we've hardly talked about the NanoAVR up until this point. Whatever changes you make in the DSP, the NanoAVR doesn't care if it made your signal sound better or worse. It has no mic to figure out if your settings were good or bad...which is why you'd want to use a mic with REW software so you can see how your changes in the NanoAVR are affecting the output from your speakers.

Regarding types of changes, you can specify a peak (most popular), high shelf (upper freq), or low shelf. You can specify whether the change should be broad or very narrow and anywhere in between. A positive change will increase the signal while a negative value will reduce that freq range.

Hope that helps. By the way, you might be able to download the software and play with it without even having the device. You can make changes on your computer and then upload the configuration or if you stay connected, you can make changes in real-time.
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post #21621 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Any DSP with enough inputs/outputs that lives between Audyssey and the amp should be able to add EQ to the post Audyssey FR. My Rane does that and has mixing as well as EQ.

BTW, I haven't usd Audyssey (XT32 with SubEQ)) since the 215RT's arrived and I don't miss it a bit.
Exactly, Rhed uses anti mode and all of us use a number of different tools to get the job done. I could not live with an Audyssey XT32 calibration. Flat is horrid IMO. I apply cuts with my open DRC-AN from mini dsp then run Audyssey which by this point I have a pretty dang smooth response. Then I "un-bypass" my low shelf filter I also have set in my open DRC after Audyssey so it doesn't try and pull my house curve down. At this point I have a nice rising house curve and I still put the submersives on PGM which adds a 3db bump below around 45hz-ish...GO0D STUFF! and fun of course! But I will note I like what Audyssey does just not it's flat mentality. But I get the best of both worlds by using the mini dsp unit and Audyssey together, kinda tricking Audyssey...

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post #21622 of 23410 Old 07-28-2014, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Opendrc-an, is that the model to get? You need 2 of them for 215 LCR true?..they don't add noise/hiss to the signal chain ?
Thanks Vince
Yea the unfortunate part of the Open DRC is that it is 2 channels only. But not expensive so...

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post #21623 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 03:55 AM
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Well nanoAVR sounds like what I need, should be placing an order today.

How hot do you guys run the bass?

5 db / 10 db / 20 db?


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post #21624 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 07:05 AM
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SOWK, I can help you with REW should you decide you want to measure. In fact I can bring over my laptop and mic if you ever want to try it first.

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post #21625 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I really like my 4. I HATED those little 2x4's, they always introduced noise into my system. The opendrc though has been perfect.
This is good to know, as I remember folks were a little upset in regards to the noise from the original units.

Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
We are going to use Audyssey as a "base" and see what it does. After that, use the Nano to fine tune things and then disable Audyssey if it proves to be worthless..

Bottom line for me is, I am not experienced in what is the right or wrong way to set these speakers up nor have the knowledge to do it myself, so I have to lean on some good guys to help me out.

These 215's have been very challenging to get set in my room, unlike any other speaker I have had before. I just hope they can be tweaked to do what I want them to do in my room....something I know I said in an earlier post today.
Be careful doing it this way. Establishing audyssey curve first, then applying additional filters to that curve, then turning audyssey off is kind of reverse engineering your curve. Taking audyssey off will affect the filters you manually applied in most cases, so just keep monitoring your response to see what negative effects might present during the process...

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post #21626 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 07:58 AM
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Be careful doing it this way. Establishing audyssey curve first, then applying additional filters to that curve, then turning audyssey off is kind of reverse engineering your curve. Taking audyssey off will affect the filters you manually applied in most cases, so just keep monitoring your response to see what negative effects might present during the process...
Umm yes, that would be a bad idea. Leaving Audyssey on or off should be based upon what sounds right to you. If you EQ on top of Audyssey EQ and then turn Audyssey off of course your subsequent EQ will be effected. That is why we measure then EQ to taste.


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post #21627 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 08:02 AM
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I looked at a video of the NanoAVR and it looks very complicated. The was no explanation on the video, just someone adjusting random filters and curves.

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post #21628 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 08:07 AM
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I looked at a video of the NanoAVR and it looks very complicated. The was no explanation on the video, just someone adjusting random filters and curves.
Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
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post #21629 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 08:24 AM
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Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
For starters I am just going to use the inuke dsp and go from there. I have pm'd Carp a few times and I think for me it is the best option for now. I think when all my work is done in my room and I can sit back and relax, I will look into the nanoavr. To be honest I am really interested in the Funk audio amp with the dsp. As Joe was saying, they were running dual amps on a 15amp outlet full force. I am curious if the industry is going to dsp amps.

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post #21630 of 23410 Old 07-29-2014, 10:17 AM
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For starters I am just going to use the inuke dsp and go from there. I have pm'd Carp a few times and I think for me it is the best option for now. I think when all my work is done in my room and I can sit back and relax, I will look into the nanoavr. To be honest I am really interested in the Funk audio amp with the dsp. As Joe was saying, they were running dual amps on a 15amp outlet full force. I am curious if the industry is going to dsp amps.
The iNuke DSP won't work as well as the MiniDSP so I don't know why you'd even waste your time. Just kidding. I like the MiniDSP but it isn't perfect and definitely isn't the only solution to the problem. I'm actually looking to move to a computer running Jriver, which is even more powerful but also comes with some limitations. I'm looking forward to hear how your system comes together.
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