Official JTR speaker thread - Page 721 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 07-31-2014, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
JTR Single Eights are awesome - but like you I couldn't really consider them due to budget constraints.


Carp mentioned my Mackie C200 and at the risk of promoting something other than JTR or JBL in the JTR thread I'll just give a heads up that the Mackie C200 are stupid cheap for a nice quality, quite capable surround speaker.



SYSTEM Specifications:
High-precision 1.4" HF titanium compression driver and 10" LF transducer

Frequency Response (–3 dB):
89Hz – 20kHz

Frequency Range (–10 dB):
59Hz – 22kHz

Maximum SPL Long-term @ 1m: 118dB

Crossover Frequency: 1800Hz


AUDIO::

Input Type: Speakon®-style 1/4-inch TS phone jack

Input Impedance: 8 ohms

Power Handling: (RMS) 200 watts, (Peak) 500 watts


I got my nine for $129 shipped each new on an overstock deal from adorama camera. I looked for months on and off, probably years for a set of speakers I could buy cheap for surrounds. I spent too many hours looking for a deal and didn't even have the Mackies in mind - but was literally just looking up smaller PA speakers by all the big PA vendors and price searching. Found the C200 deal, pm'ed a few forum long timers for their opinion, but ended up jumping on them pretty fast to make sure I didn't miss the deal. If I was only a cinema guy - - I honestly could just run all nine of them that I own and be pretty darn pleased with just the Mackies. The JTR product is better - significantly better - but these are better than they have any right to be for the price I paid - especially for surround. Normal street price is only $200 each. They are not so great for true stereo left right use. My JTR 228HT own them there. Carp says the Mackie C200 sound like they have some sort of built in DSP that he doesn't like. I'm not sure what to think of them in stereo, but in all channel stereo - with nine of them going they rock and they best full theater systems I've heard at g2g's that cost many many times more. Reviews bear out the same opinions online. Most every one seems to rate them 4-5 stars with lots of reviews. The Mackie SRM350 is the powered version.


Here is a thread where I broke one down to look inside:
Mackie C200 - under the hood


You can mount them easily with a Home Depot Shelf and some dowel rods cut to length. Here's how I mounted them. I've since painted the shelf brackets and dowel rods black. They look really nice IMO. My wife isn't too enthused with the looks - she says they make my room look like a club. (DJ speakers she says -- well yes that's exactly what they are!?!?!) (post 50)
Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room

Musicians Friend reviews: (they are reviewed this good everywhere)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...-speaker-black








_

Archaea,

Thanks for the recommendation. I'd never even heard of the Mackies. I'll definitely do some reading up on them. You say they're not the best for L-R music, what about surround duty for multi-channel music? How would they stack up against the JBLs or Klipschs for music?

BTW, I read your sub recommendations by price awhile back... awesome resource! Thanks for putting that list together.
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:28 PM
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Hi all! I’ll be putting in an order for 212HT LCRs next month and I’m still trying to figure out what to do about surrounds, I’d really appreciate if some of the experts in this thread could chime in.

First, a little bit about the HT: The 212s are for a carpeted room that measures approx. 20’ x 12’ with 10’ ceilings (around 3000 cu ft.) with one wall open to a hallway, stairs, and the rest of the upstairs area. The HT will be used for about 60% music (all kinds) and 40% movies. The plan is to get dual PSA XV30fse subs (since the room is narrow, I need subs that are more vertical) and eventually, room treatments.

Having read through a large chunk of this thread, I know the usual advice regarding surrounds is to go with Single/Slanted-8s. The main problem is that I’m putting most of my speaker budget into the LCRs, opting for the 212s over the 228s because the compression driver is supposed to be better for music (and while the Single-8 is an outstanding speaker by all accounts, it seems like it’d be a better match to the triple-8 or T-12’s). I’m trying to keep my surrounds budget at or under $500 per speaker. Here are some of the options I’m considering, along with Pros/Cons (please correct my assumptions if any are wrong):
  • Option A: JBL-Pro 8350 ($550)
  • Pros: Uses high-quality compression driver in horn config; super high sensitivity; high power handling; very closely matched to 212s
  • Cons: Huge size for a surround speaker (18” x 18”); pricey; pro-cinema speaker might not sound good in narrow 12’ room; not sure how JBL pros sound with music?
  • Option B: Klipsch RB-81 II ($400)
  • Pros: Smaller cabinet for more versatile placement; super high sensitivity; better WAF
  • Cons: Supposedly harsh highs?; musicality?; lower extension not really needed; not the best bang for the buck
  • Option C: Chane Theater Ten ($350)
  • Pros: Successor to the SHO-10; decent price
  • Cons: Unproven performance; controversy about it being a cheap Chinese PA speaker rebranded as a pro-cinema/audio speaker?
  • Option D: Hsu Research HB-1 MK2 ($200)
  • Pros: Best price; highest WAF; better for music?
  • Cons: Sensitivity 10 DBs lower than the 212s, might not be able to keep up?; too much of mismatch?
  • Option F???

So that’s where I’m at. I’m leaning most heavily towards option A or B. Can you advise on the best option (possibly one not mentioned here)? Maybe clear up any misconceptions? Thanks!
First of all, welcome to AVS and welcome to the JTR thread. I highly recommend you tread lightly in here because we will help you spend your money and money you don't have.

Let's just say when I first visited this forum less than two years ago, I was in love with Klipsch setup and my two HSU VTF-15H subs. Now I am on my third set of JTR speakers and own 8 - 18" subs, with another sub possibly on the way...

Anyways..back to your question.

Originally I had some Klipsch surrounds when I made the jump to JTR speakers. They quickly proved to be not the best choice for the JTR's so I started looking around. Ended up with a great deal on four of the 8340a's and they have been a great speaker. Yes, they are a big large. IMO, they do a darn good job when matched with the JTR's. Now, I am looking to change into something like the JTR Slanted 8 or something similar. Only reason being, I am a bit OCD and like my speakers to all match. Plus a smaller profile surround would be a better fit in my room.

If you don't have the budget for 2 or 4 of the slanted 8's, the JBL's could be the ticket. Check the used market out on those and you can find some GREAT deals. That is what I did and I scored four of them for under 1K.

Good luck!
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Old 08-01-2014, 07:52 AM
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@varneysa The design I have been working on should be available shortly. The crossover parts are figured out and once I do some preliminary measurements at my house, I should be able to figure something out. Putting them head to head with the volt10's and the s8's, they were surprising, just with the stock crossover, but could get a little harsh. I had a video of them rocking full range as a stereo pair and it was crazy how good they sounded. padding the upper end a shade more and they will be a real winner.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:40 AM
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@varneysa The design I have been working on should be available shortly. The crossover parts are figured out and once I do some preliminary measurements at my house, I should be able to figure something out. Putting them head to head with the volt10's and the s8's, they were surprising, just with the stock crossover, but could get a little harsh. I had a video of them rocking full range as a stereo pair and it was crazy how good they sounded. padding the upper end a shade more and they will be a real winner.
Sounds like a young Craig Chase in the making. You even have a catchy company name. Have you incorporated yet?

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Old 08-01-2014, 10:24 AM
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Archaea,

Thanks for the recommendation. I'd never even heard of the Mackies. I'll definitely do some reading up on them. You say they're not the best for L-R music, what about surround duty for multi-channel music? How would they stack up against the JBLs or Klipschs for music?

BTW, I read your sub recommendations by price awhile back... awesome resource! Thanks for putting that list together.
varneysa,

I spent most of the day yesterday afternoon listening to the 228HT (home sick), then after some discussion in the JTR thread about the Mackie C200 - I hooked up all the Mackies again last night and listened to some two channel and movie clips, then went back to the JTR 228HT for some direct comparison. I hate to admit it but I think I must have had the Mackies wired up out of phase in the L/R when I originally was demoing them for stitch1 and carp. There was no longer any of the weird DSP effect on L/R stereo listening. All channel stereo listening was always fun on the nine Mackies, but two channel was a bit weird. No more. They still aren't as good as the 228HT, but I wouldn't define them as weird or off somehow for two channel. I'm surprised I didn't recognize them being out of phase, but I didn't. carp and stitch1 will have to give them another listen. All of us liked them for all channel stereo, but not too much for traditional stereo. Now that makes sense. They use speakon connectors and unfortunately I must have wired one of the fronts in reverse initially. Last night I rewired. Honestly, I'd say the Mackies are 75% of the JTR 228HT for 20% of the price. (street to street price) Their fault is a sibalance on the treble. It's not quite a clean, more sssss, more blurred treble at loud volumes - but not as bad as a previous set of speaker I owned - the eD Cinema 12. (The Mackies are better than the eD Cinema 12 as I recall by playing some of the tracks I found distasteful on the eD - specifically some of the dubstep music on Art of Flight was obnoxious on the eD because of the heavy treble)). Obviously this comparison to the eD Cinema 12 is by memory since I don't have the eD anymore, but I'm pretty confident the Mackie C200 is a better speaker than the eD Cinema12.

I'd still say the Mackie are excellent for movies, and now I can say they are enjoyable for two channel too. (not the last word in refinement, but not disappointing either). The JTR 228HT compression driver costs alone costs more than the whole street shipped price of the Mackie C200 speaker - so you'd expect it be better. But the C200 is good. If looks aren't a problem I don't see how anyone could be disappointed with them for surround -- they fit my budget surround needs perfectly.

All channel stereo with nine of those mackies is a lot of fun!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; 08-01-2014 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:44 AM
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Sounds like a young Craig Chase in the making. You even have a catchy company name. Have you incorporated yet?
I have an LLC setup at this point as a backup plan we started for a different business venture, but I will see the demand and work from there
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:Originally Posted by coolgeek 

Can anyone tell me which of these speaker mounts is suitable for the Slanted 8s?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=speaker+mount
I have to start thinking of getting everything together.


I like these Axiom brackets, very sturdy and adjustable but also expensive.






http://www.axiomaudio.com/full-metal-bracket.html
Carp, how much do your surrounds weigh? I am on the hunt again for speakers mounts. I really don't like the ones I bought. I am going to mount the backs to the wall and the sides to a bracket. I like the way these pivot and yet keep the speaker close to the wall.
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:08 AM
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Quote:Originally Posted by coolgeek 

Can anyone tell me which of these speaker mounts is suitable for the Slanted 8s?
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=speaker+mount
I have to start thinking of getting everything together.


I like these Axiom brackets, very sturdy and adjustable but also expensive.






http://www.axiomaudio.com/full-metal-bracket.html
Carp, how much do your surrounds weigh? I am on the hunt again for speakers mounts. I really don't like the ones I bought. I am going to mount the backs to the wall and the sides to a bracket. I like the way these pivot and yet keep the speaker close to the wall. This was sometime ago huh? Look at that front stage.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:05 PM
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I have an LLC setup at this point as a backup plan we started for a different business venture, but I will see the demand and work from there
I wish you great success in the venture Beast.
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Old 08-02-2014, 08:51 PM
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Hello all, moved my Orbit shifter from the front stage area near my LS9's to the left rear side wall where my SubMersive HP used to reside to see how it sounds so i could potentially re-locate my gear to the front stage area, the problem is it's now shaking my ceiling mounted front projector. I am wondering if any of you have had this problem and what your solution may have been. I am looking at trying an Auralex Subdude HT or Herbies audio lab giant fat gliders to see if one of them may make a difference otherwise I will have to move the OS back to the fronstage area, any experiences anyone has had would be great thank you!
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:12 AM
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Carp, how much do your surrounds weigh? I am on the hunt again for speakers mounts. I really don't like the ones I bought. I am going to mount the backs to the wall and the sides to a bracket. I like the way these pivot and yet keep the speaker close to the wall. This was sometime ago huh? Look at that front stage.
Dave the Axiom brackets are good for up to 40lbs.
http://axiomaudio.com/full-metal-bracket
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:05 AM
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Hello all, moved my Orbit shifter from the front stage area near my LS9's to the left rear side wall where my SubMersive HP used to reside to see how it sounds so i could potentially re-locate my gear to the front stage area, the problem is it's now shaking my ceiling mounted front projector. I am wondering if any of you have had this problem and what your solution may have been. I am looking at trying an Auralex Subdude HT or Herbies audio lab giant fat gliders to see if one of them may make a difference otherwise I will have to move the OS back to the fronstage area, any experiences anyone has had would be great thank you!
rj, I had the same problem when I added additional OS. The problem in my set up was solved once I went to a ceiling suspended on hat channel and whisper clips. I am not suggesting you go to that length to solve the problem but the whisper clips themselves are a quality piece of suspension hardware that could be used to attach the projector to the ceiling. There are probably a variety of solutions that could bring some dampening into the equation. Do you have enough ceiling height that if you lower the projector with some form of dampening it still ok?
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:42 AM
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Hello all, moved my Orbit shifter from the front stage area near my LS9's to the left rear side wall where my SubMersive HP used to reside to see how it sounds so i could potentially re-locate my gear to the front stage area, the problem is it's now shaking my ceiling mounted front projector. I am wondering if any of you have had this problem and what your solution may have been. I am looking at trying an Auralex Subdude HT or Herbies audio lab giant fat gliders to see if one of them may make a difference otherwise I will have to move the OS back to the fronstage area, any experiences anyone has had would be great thank you!
I have my FP Chief Mounted with an 18" extension pipe (9'ceilings) and have 2" X12" blocking between the joists at the projector mounting point. Very secure but that didn't prevent the dual OS's from causing the projector image to shift a bit during very spirited listening sessions.

I got used to repositioning the image and that continues to this day post Orbit Shifters. Just the cost of that much bass energy in a relatively small sealed space. Now if I were OCD about locking the image then I might try and come up with something preventative, but for me the answer has been to not listen at over reference except occasionally when showing off.

BTW, went to the theater ( ) yesterday to hear an Atmos film. Saw Guardians of the Galaxy and it was a really fun movie. The Atmos demos were great but I didn't notice it much during the actual movie. Still, I'm planning on adding 4 in-ceiling speakers to get the Atmos effect at home.

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Old 08-03-2014, 10:15 AM
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Now if I were OCD about locking the image then I might try and come up with something preventative, but for me the answer has been to not listen at over reference except occasionally when showing off.

Rob, this is a very disturbing answer coming from you. Just turn it down??? What is this thread coming to when one of its most influential contributors is now the "turn it down" guy. Of this course this is coming from someone who may just be jealous not having found the cure for EBD (excessive bass addiction) yet.
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Old 08-03-2014, 11:21 AM
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Rob, this is a very disturbing answer coming from you. Just turn it down??? What is this thread coming to when one of its most influential contributors is now the "turn it down" guy. Of this course this is coming from someone who may just be jealous not having found the cure for EBD (excessive bass addiction) yet.
Good, I like being an outlier...

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Old 08-03-2014, 12:01 PM
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rj, I had the same problem when I added additional OS. The problem in my set up was solved once I went to a ceiling suspended on hat channel and whisper clips. I am not suggesting you go to that length to solve the problem but the whisper clips themselves are a quality piece of suspension hardware that could be used to attach the projector to the ceiling. There are probably a variety of solutions that could bring some dampening into the equation. Do you have enough ceiling height that if you lower the projector with some form of dampening it still ok?
Unfortunately I don't think i can lower it too much more, I found this company that makes these isolators specifically for projectors but I may not have the room and they are a little pricey so I believe I will have to try a different method.
http://www.nigelbdesign.com/pdfs/Ant...in%20mount.pdf
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Old 08-03-2014, 12:11 PM
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I have my FP Chief Mounted with an 18" extension pipe (9'ceilings) and have 2" X12" blocking between the joists at the projector mounting point. Very secure but that didn't prevent the dual OS's from causing the projector image to shift a bit during very spirited listening sessions.

I got used to repositioning the image and that continues to this day post Orbit Shifters. Just the cost of that much bass energy in a relatively small sealed space. Now if I were OCD about locking the image then I might try and come up with something preventative, but for me the answer has been to not listen at over reference except occasionally when showing off.

BTW, went to the theater ( ) yesterday to hear an Atmos film. Saw Guardians of the Galaxy and it was a really fun movie. The Atmos demos were great but I didn't notice it much during the actual movie. Still, I'm planning on adding 4 in-ceiling speakers to get the Atmos effect at home.
I had a couple of friends of mine who are A/V installers do the job originally, I think I may call him to ask how he blocked it out originally, my guess is he probably has run into this. I hear you RMK about listening above reference. My HT room isn't sealed and it doesn't shift the image but the image vibrates to the bass notes!
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Old 08-03-2014, 02:29 PM
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Carp, how much do your surrounds weigh? I am on the hunt again for speakers mounts. I really don't like the ones I bought. I am going to mount the backs to the wall and the sides to a bracket. I like the way these pivot and yet keep the speaker close to the wall. This was sometime ago huh? Look at that front stage.


I'm not sure exactly how much they weight, I'm guessing around 30 pounds? I do know that when mounting them I felt like the brackets could have held a much heavier speaker they are heavy duty for sure. I think they are only rated for 40 pounds but I think they are being conservative.
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Old 08-03-2014, 03:22 PM
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I'm not sure exactly how much they weight, I'm guessing around 30 pounds? I do know that when mounting them I felt like the brackets could have held a much heavier speaker they are heavy duty for sure. I think they are only rated for 40 pounds but I think they are being conservative.
I'm sure they will hold much more. I suggest you test them with your 215's ... Wall mounted 215RT's surrounds would be cool.
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Old 08-03-2014, 06:07 PM
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I'm sure they will hold much more. I suggest you test them with your 215's ... Wall mounted 215RT's surrounds would be cool.
I don't think there would be enough height to be mounted on a bracket.. Mine as well stack the the 215RT on a couple of dictionary's just to get a little more height..lol
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Old 08-03-2014, 09:07 PM
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I'm sure they will hold much more. I suggest you test them with your 215's ... Wall mounted 215RT's surrounds would be cool.
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I don't think there would be enough height to be mounted on a bracket.. Mine as well stack the the 215RT on a couple of dictionary's just to get a little more height..lol
Haha, your right, they are pretty much wall mounted.
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Old 08-03-2014, 10:33 PM
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Haha, your right, they are pretty much wall mounted.
Hey Reef.. Did you get your 215's yet?
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Old 08-04-2014, 05:49 AM
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Hey Reef.. Did you get your 215's yet?
No, I heard this week, we will see.
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Old 08-04-2014, 08:31 AM
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Surround Sound Experiment

I do not go out to the movies other than an occasional visit to IMAX. All the Dolby Atmos chatter has made me very curious so as reported earlier, we (with our 15 year old son) went to a new Atmos theater in the area to see Guardians of the Galaxy (3D-Atmos). The Atmos demos were impressive especially the rain on the roof sequence and I was feeling positive about the possibilities for Atmos at home.

The movie (while very entertaining) was another story. I can't recall one moment where I noticed the Atmos "experience" and my wife/son were of the same opinion. Being a teen he loves going out to movies to hang with friends but we all agreed that movies sound much better at home. The wife is a person who doesn't pay attention to things like this but will indulge me in my hobby. She enjoyed GOTG and so last night we decided to drag out an old action bluray to test the theory. I chose Hell Boy as she hadn't seen it.

It wasn't long into the film before she turned to me and said "see how much better our HT sounds?". There are a lot of rain scenes in Hell Boy and the rain/thunder thing was just as real sounding as the Atmos theater. I'm thinking my surround backs firing up at the ceiling helped with that effect. Hell Boy also has good LFE and great surround effects and they were all better than the Atmos experience. The rest of the sound from dialog clarity to dynamics were also a step up.

This experiment may have postponed if not cancelled my Atmos speaker quest. If 7.1 in my room with the speakers I have is better than a good commercial Atmos theater and, as good as any IMAX I have been to, why bother?

Turns out, going out to the movies may be the most effective upgradeitis cure ...
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Old 08-04-2014, 10:25 AM
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Old 08-04-2014, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I do not go out to the movies other than an occasional visit to IMAX. All the Dolby Atmos chatter has made me very curious so as reported earlier, we (with our 15 year old son) went to a new Atmos theater in the area to see Guardians of the Galaxy (3D-Atmos). The Atmos demos were impressive especially the rain on the roof sequence and I was feeling positive about the possibilities for Atmos at home.

The movie (while very entertaining) was another story. I can't recall one moment where I noticed the Atmos "experience" and my wife/son were of the same opinion. Being a teen he loves going out to movies to hang with friends but we all agreed that movies sound much better at home. The wife is a person who doesn't pay attention to things like this but will indulge me in my hobby. She enjoyed GOTG and so last night we decided to drag out an old action bluray to test the theory. I chose Hell Boy as she hadn't seen it.

It wasn't long into the film before she turned to me and said "see how much better our HT sounds?". There are a lot of rain scenes in Hell Boy and the rain/thunder thing was just as real sounding as the Atmos theater. I'm thinking my surround backs firing up at the ceiling helped with that effect. Hell Boy also has good LFE and great surround effects and they were all better than the Atmos experience. The rest of the sound from dialog clarity to dynamics were also a step up.

This experiment may have postponed if not cancelled my Atmos speaker quest. If 7.1 in my room with the speakers I have is better than a good commercial Atmos theater and, as good as any IMAX I have been to, why bother?

Turns out, going out to the movies may be the most effective upgradeitis cure ...
Couldn't agree with you more about this. We saw TF4 in Atmos and it didn't do a thing for me. Really couldn't tell if anything was different than the other screens....
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:23 PM
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I have really enjoyed all the Atmos movies I have seen so far. The biggest upgrade to me is the subs and the bass shakers though (oh and the recliners!!), not the surround effects.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:46 PM
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I have really enjoyed all the Atmos movies I have seen so far. The biggest upgrade to me is the subs and the bass shakers though (oh and the recliners!!), not the surround effects.
You should get Archaeas 228's and use them as surrounds with your 215-212 front end for MC music and some good surround effects films.

Then tell me you aren't impressed with surround sound ...

Humm, surround speaker GTG? ...

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Old 08-04-2014, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
You should get Archaeas 228's and use them as surrounds with your 215-212 front end for MC music and some good surround effects films.

Then tell me you aren't impressed with surround sound ...

Humm, surround speaker GTG? ...


Speaking of surround, I've been much happier with my own surrounds lately. I moved my front row up just a little bit, enough so that the side surrounds aren't directly to my side anymore. I like this much better. Before the side surrounds seemed too directional and it felt more like just listening to distinct points. Now I get a better and more believable surround field behind me.
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