Official JTR speaker thread - Page 722 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21631 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 01:15 PM
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Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
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post #21632 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
Carp.. I just put in order for 2 6000dsp at my local dealer. Seems the inukes are very popular. And the sales manager said Behringer will get a handful in by end of the month. Let you know how it goes when I get them..
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post #21633 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Carp.. I just put in order for 2 6000dsp at my local dealer. Seems the inukes are very popular. And the sales manager said Behringer will get a handful in by end of the month. Let you know how it goes when I get them..
Cool looking forward to see how it goes for you.

Are you using the 2nd 6000 for something else or are you going 1 per 215? I assume you could squeeze a bit more out of the 6000's if you just had one speaker per amp, but then on the other hand you would have to adjust 2 dsp's anytime you tweak the bass.
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post #21634 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Hey guys,

I'm also starting to tweak the bass with the PEQ function on the Inuke. It works great too, so that's another option. Using PEQ in combination with the dynamic EQ gives some great results.

I highly recommend having easy access to changing the EQ in the inuke. I like to use a "dummy" laptop that uses Remote Desktop to control my PC in the other room where my minidsp is plugged into.

Of course, you could also just connect the inuke directly into a laptop. When my projector is on I'll just use a different remote keyboard and mouse to control the inuke.
I had some money in my pay pal and I bought a cheapy lap top for the theater. It will only be used for dsp purpose. I wish now I would have gotten a mini.
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post #21635 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Cool looking forward to see how it goes for you.

Are you using the 2nd 6000 for something else or are you going 1 per 215? I assume you could squeeze a bit more out of the 6000's if you just had one speaker per amp, but then on the other hand you would have to adjust 2 dsp's anytime you tweak the bass.
Yea.. I made out a good deal with the sales manager if I bought 2 6000. So 1 will power both L/R. And the the other 6000 for the center using 1 of the channels. So I guess I have to EQ the center on its own.
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post #21636 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I had some money in my pay pal and I bought a cheapy lap top for the theater. It will only be used for dsp purpose. I wish now I would have gotten a mini.
I remember when I bought a 350$ LT back in January just to run REW.. Lol. Now I'm gonna use it as a remote for the inuke..
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post #21637 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Yea.. I made out a good deal with the sales manager if I bought 2 6000. So 1 will power both L/R. And the the other 6000 for the center using 1 of the channels. So I guess I have to EQ the center on its own.

That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
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post #21638 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
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post #21639 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
That won't be a big deal though, chances are you will eq the center once and then leave it alone.

Wait.. are you getting 3 215's or 2?
3..
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post #21640 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I remember when I bought a 350$ LT back in January just to run REW.. Lol. Now I'm gonna use it as a remote for the inuke..
LOL, that is what I paid, $350 NewEgg special. Not bad for the money though. I just use apples for my personal use, most of the software is all for windows, so I needed a windows based computer anyway. Come in handy for tuning the computers on my bikes.
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post #21641 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
3..

Ah, ok. Really the whole point of having dsp for the 215's IMO is to tweak the bass so if you are like me you won't be messing too much with the center after you set it once. I don't use any eq on my 212 center.

Any word yet on when you are getting your speakers?
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post #21642 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Ah, ok. Really the whole point of having dsp for the 215's IMO is to tweak the bass so if you are like me you won't be messing too much with the center after you set it once. I don't use any eq on my 212 center.

Any word yet on when you are getting your speakers?
Ok thanks carp.. My speaker is on its way. Should be at my door on the 7th.
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post #21643 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
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Yeah, you pretty much play with it adding filters one at a time and figuring out if you need a very broad (0.5-2) or more focused (15-50) filter along with how much boost or drop. Make a change and then take a measurement to see how your settings affected the output. There will definitely be a learning curve but after that you'll get quicker and more handy with it.

There are some papers on the MiniDSP site for setting up bass management as well as applying Linkwitz Transforms among others.
It is really nice though when you get the hang of it. The mini dsp interface on the computer is really easy to get the hang of. I have thought about trying the LT process with the biquad filters and such. But my response gets near perfect as I want so I never have. I am a believer in my EQ process of the mini dsp and XT32 team calibration. Not sure if anyone follows my process exactly as I do or not. But IMO it's the best possible process if using a mini dsp unit and Audyssey together. I think I am going to bust out my CSL UMM-6 mic and REW out again soon. I havn't done anything for awhile in attempt to sit back and enjoy the system for awhile. Plus the last Mac issues with REW was providing some serious frustration.

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post #21644 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 07:23 PM
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It is really nice though when you get the hang of it. The mini dsp interface on the computer is really easy to get the hang of. I have thought about trying the LT process with the biquad filters and such. But my response gets near perfect as I want so I never have. I am a believer in my EQ process of the mini dsp and XT32 team calibration. Not sure if anyone follows my process exactly as I do or not. But IMO it's the best possible process if using a mini dsp unit and Audyssey together. I think I am going to bust out my CSL UMM-6 mic and REW out again soon. I havn't done anything for awhile in attempt to sit back and enjoy the system for awhile. Plus the last Mac issues with REW was providing some serious frustration.
A couple weeks ago I put my first Linkwitz Transform on my 3 LMS-5400s and there was a scene in Olympus Has Fallen before the AC-130 crashes with one of the deepest notes I've heard. We felt it once and it didn't feel like the normal shaking of the couch but more of a rolling "earthquake" type movement. The first time I heard it I almost reached for the remote, the second time it hit, I grabbed the remote and turned down the sub volume quick. My LMS-5400s are in sealed 5 cu.ft. enclosures driven by 4,000w so I need to be a little careful with them. Needless to say, I'm going to reduce the LT a little.

I put a LT on Coach's 8xSI18s, a little more conservative than the first one I put on my subs. We watched one of our go to scenes, the start of Transformers 1 and we heard a signal (cleanly) that we hadn't heard before. We didn't hear anything out of place, actually I toned down the bass and cleaned it up some with my DSP work.

So I'd definitely recommend an LT if you have sealed subs...but be careful as you can definitely overdo it.
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post #21645 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
He is getting the same setup I have. 2-RT's and a RM for the center.

I have thought about throwing three pro amps on each of the 215's myself. Looking at the XLS-2000 right now.
I just finished a two week demo with the XLS2500 based on much positive feedback but, for me, in my system it sounded a little sterile compared to my Emotiva XPR-1/XPR-5 combo. It was funny, when I returned it back to the Guitar center and told the guy the reason he laughed and told me that's the EXACT word he used in describing the sound of that amp to others. He said he much prefers the sound quality of the QSCPLX2 series amps for whatever that's worth.
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post #21646 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
A couple weeks ago I put my first Linkwitz Transform on my 3 LMS-5400s and there was a scene in Olympus Has Fallen before the AC-130 crashes with one of the deepest notes I've heard. We felt it once and it didn't feel like the normal shaking of the couch but more of a rolling "earthquake" type movement. The first time I heard it I almost reached for the remote, the second time it hit, I grabbed the remote and turned down the sub volume quick. My LMS-5400s are in sealed 5 cu.ft. enclosures driven by 4,000w so I need to be a little careful with them. Needless to say, I'm going to reduce the LT a little.

I put a LT on Coach's 8xSI18s, a little more conservative than the first one I put on my subs. We watched one of our go to scenes, the start of Transformers 1 and we heard a signal (cleanly) that we hadn't heard before. We didn't hear anything out of place, actually I toned down the bass and cleaned it up some with my DSP work.

So I'd definitely recommend an LT if you have sealed subs...but be careful as you can definitely overdo it.
Ok, I will get my links out I stashed and read up again before I do it. Been itching to do some dsp tinkering. Can't go too long without it...

Of course having you around will be nice too I am running dual Submersives. I have had so many calibrations I can't count. So much tinkering with low shelf filters and sub trims etc...When I first got real woofage I had the bass so high the classic big hitters like War of the Worlds or the Looper scene with the kid towards the end were just ridiculous at the MV movie levels. I would always have to turn it down lol. Since I have matured a bit in my process I brush up to the line of too much with those scenes but not too much. They are powerful and the final fight scene in the hulk is just ridiculous!!! But not overdone. Prob around 13-14db hot but I also don't go to reference either. Bass is almost reference levels though

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post #21647 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 11:09 PM
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MiniDSP just made this post in the NanoAVR 8x8 HDMI Audio Processor "Official" Thread thread. They improved the LFE management of the NanoAVR. Note that I don't think this necessarily gives new functionality but does make the LFE easier to configure and modify. Nice to know they continue to improve their products.

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Dear all,

As promised a little update to warn you that the DSP structure was improved to cater a better Bass management configuration. A bit delayed due to the fact that we had to add quite few elements to the DSP structure + GUI + FW.. Thanks for your patience. You can see a complete step by step in the following app note: http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...ass-management

User manual was also updated to make sure there isn't any confusion and the updated plug-in is available in the user downloads.
That configuration will ultimately provide all the flexibility you expect from such unit. We do look forward to hearing feedback if any questions/comments!

Have fun,

Tony
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post #21648 of 30224 Old 07-29-2014, 11:12 PM
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Ok, I will get my links out I stashed and read up again before I do it. Been itching to do some dsp tinkering. Can't go too long without it...

Of course having you around will be nice too I am running dual Submersives. I have had so many calibrations I can't count. So much tinkering with low shelf filters and sub trims etc...When I first got real woofage I had the bass so high the classic big hitters like War of the Worlds or the Looper scene with the kid towards the end were just ridiculous at the MV movie levels. I would always have to turn it down lol. Since I have matured a bit in my process I brush up to the line of too much with those scenes but not too much. They are powerful and the final fight scene in the hulk is just ridiculous!!! But not overdone. Prob around 13-14db hot but I also don't go to reference either. Bass is almost reference levels though
I'll be glad to help how I can. It would be nice if you had a sub that we had the T/S parameters for as that would allow us to put in some numbers and spit out the LT Bi-Quad to put in the DSP. Since we don't have the TS parameters you'll have to take a measurement of your room response and then we'll have to guess about where to start the LT. I'll be glad to help understanding that I've done a total of 2 LT transforms to this point.
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post #21649 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 03:42 AM
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Well, I bought the miniDSP nanoAVR

Playing with the software is easy peasy...

Now major question?

For my three JTR 215RT's

High pass filter at 18htz

Or

Crossover at 18htz and send to my Seaton SubMersives...

I would naturally think the crossover.

But someone tell me otherwise if I need to know something more.
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post #21650 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 04:27 AM
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Also what is the general preferred house curve here?

10db hot at 20htz
15db hot at 20htz
20db hot at 20htz




And do guys roll off the highs?

If so what range to start to roll off?

And how low at 20Khtz?



I was thinking 10db hot from 20htz - 40htz with a gradual roll off to flat at 150htz.
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post #21651 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post
I just finished a two week demo with the XLS2500 based on much positive feedback but, for me, in my system it sounded a little sterile compared to my Emotiva XPR-1/XPR-5 combo. It was funny, when I returned it back to the Guitar center and told the guy the reason he laughed and told me that's the EXACT word he used in describing the sound of that amp to others. He said he much prefers the sound quality of the QSCPLX2 series amps for whatever that's worth.
The new QSX PLD series of amps seem perfect for running 3 215's. They can be configured to run 1-4 channels per amp. In two channel mode the top model puts out serious power (cannot find info on the 3 channel output on their website). They also have built-in DSP.

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post #21652 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 07:00 AM
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Well, finally sat down and took a listen....

Very good dynamics, good sound stage, I am running at flat right now, but listening to the 212HT's at Lbrown105's I may need to figure out a way to do a plus 20 bd boost to the bass on the mains... lol.

Flat is sounding, well flat... when I run my Seatons 10db hot and cross the 215RT's over at 80htz I get a lot of punch... hehe.

good news - With no EQ corrections the mid-bass is really powerful with the 215RT's. With EQ, it tames a lot of it out. So, I may need to find a way to do an external processor to boost from 150htz down.


Audyssey really needs to find a way to offer user adjustable curves.

Even with the Pro kit I have, I can only adj +3 DB max from 150htz and down.


Also, I easily get usable bass to under 10htz in my room with just the 215RT's...
If you are going to keep the amps that you have, then I would consider the MiniDSP10x10HD for DSP duty for the three 215's. It would also leave you five outputs for subs, if needed.

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post #21653 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 07:02 AM
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The new QSX PLD series of amps seem perfect for running 3 215's. They can be configured to run 1-4 channels per amp. In two channel mode the top model puts out serious power (cannot find info on the 3 channel output on their website). They also have built-in DSP.
I just looked those up and they do look nice. The top of the line 4 channel will run a little more than 3 Crown amps, so it might be worth a look..
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post #21654 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 07:58 AM
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I just looked those up and they do look nice. The top of the line 4 channel will run a little more than 3 Crown amps, so it might be worth a look..
They also have PFC (power factor correction) than evens out current draw so you can get full power without tripping breakers (the Behringer models do not have PFC and may be why carp's breakers tripped). The new issue of AudioExpress explains the benefit of PFC in an article on the new Powersoft amps (the K20 is unfreakinbeliavable).

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post #21655 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
LOL, that is what I paid, $350 NewEgg special. Not bad for the money though. I just use apples for my personal use, most of the software is all for windows, so I needed a windows based computer anyway. Come in handy for tuning the computers on my bikes.
Did the same thing, but it has ended up just being my "regular" laptop as well It was the one on the kitchen counter all weekend and is the jukebox for the rest of the house using the sonos players
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A couple weeks ago I put my first Linkwitz Transform on my 3 LMS-5400s and there was a scene in Olympus Has Fallen before the AC-130 crashes with one of the deepest notes I've heard. We felt it once and it didn't feel like the normal shaking of the couch but more of a rolling "earthquake" type movement. The first time I heard it I almost reached for the remote, the second time it hit, I grabbed the remote and turned down the sub volume quick. My LMS-5400s are in sealed 5 cu.ft. enclosures driven by 4,000w so I need to be a little careful with them. Needless to say, I'm going to reduce the LT a little.

I put a LT on Coach's 8xSI18s, a little more conservative than the first one I put on my subs. We watched one of our go to scenes, the start of Transformers 1 and we heard a signal (cleanly) that we hadn't heard before. We didn't hear anything out of place, actually I toned down the bass and cleaned it up some with my DSP work.

So I'd definitely recommend an LT if you have sealed subs...but be careful as you can definitely overdo it.
What did you start out with? The LT's can get out of hand pretty quick for sure. I remember my first one I tried I kept turning the knob on the dcx until I saw the 5hz response level out with the rest of the curve and pretty quickly I was at a 12dB boost. Not advisable. Taking it back down the around 6dB was better, and I had no issues with that at all. The DCX also does rolloff more down low so that was another problem....

Will be shooting you a text when I finally get down to the theater and start EQing with the opendrc. They really need to rename that. I mean, "open drc" explains what it does, but a little creativity could go a long way...

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post #21656 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 08:18 AM
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They also have PFC (power factor correction) than evens out current draw so you can get full power without tripping breakers (the Behringer models do not have PFC and may be why carp's breakers tripped). The new issue of AudioExpress explains the benefit of PFC in an article on the new Powersoft amps (the K20 is unfreakinbeliavable).
YEA!!! I want that k20 so bad I can taste it. Would be awesome to just have a single amp that you would never have to worry about.... and so tiny too!

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post #21657 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 08:22 AM
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YEA!!! I want that k20 so bad I can taste it. Would be awesome to just have a single amp that you would never have to worry about.... and so tiny too!
So what's it taste like? ... second thought, don't answer that ...

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post #21658 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 08:35 AM
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Tastes like a lotta dough...
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post #21659 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 09:25 AM
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Tastes like a lotta dough...

Haha. I see what you did there.
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post #21660 of 30224 Old 07-30-2014, 09:43 AM
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Well, I bought the miniDSP nanoAVR

Playing with the software is easy peasy...

Now major question?

For my three JTR 215RT's

High pass filter at 18htz

Or

Crossover at 18htz and send to my Seaton SubMersives...

I would naturally think the crossover.

But someone tell me otherwise if I need to know something more.
Very cool that you can crossover that low using the mini. In my room the only hpf I tried that blended the ported speakers and sealed subs was a 12 db slope Butterworth. Do you have sealed subs? If you end up having problems blending you could try something like a 30 hz crossover too.



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Also what is the general preferred house curve here?

10db hot at 20htz
15db hot at 20htz
20db hot at 20htz




And do guys roll off the highs?

If so what range to start to roll off?

And how low at 20Khtz?



I was thinking 10db hot from 20htz - 40htz with a gradual roll off to flat at 150htz.
For me it depends on the content and my mood. Most of the time around 20 hot at 20 hz and I like it to level off somewhere between 150 and 200 hz.

I do not roll off the highs. I know that supposedly people like the sound more with rolled off highs but not me. I feel like people that preferred that must have had the bass flat. IMO with hot bass if anything the brain craves more treble but that's just my theory.
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