Official JTR speaker thread - Page 724 - AVS Forum
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post #21691 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
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If you want to experiment with MBM's I have 4 2225's that you could try out.They are already in ported boxes, but you could also just do new ones if needed.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

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post #21692 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
If you want to experiment with MBM's I have 4 2225's that you could try out.They are already in ported boxes, but you could also just do new ones if needed.
Thanks for the offer Beast! Let me figure out my priorities as I've got a lot going on but will definitely keep this in mind. Thanks!
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post #21693 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:16 AM
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Public Service Announcement -











At least for a few more days! Then my eight 18's are supposed to arrive:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...-coil--295-518
C'mon August 5th!



"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #21694 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
8 18" are the standard now.

What?



"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
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post #21695 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
What?


It seems that way. You know all the same guys I know and look at what they are rocking.
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post #21696 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
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That Cat ^^^^ is about to get REAL toasted.


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post #21697 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:32 AM
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I know...I know...


We've tipped over the precipice of sanity around here.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
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post #21698 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Well, I bought the miniDSP nanoAVR

Playing with the software is easy peasy...

Now major question?

For my three JTR 215RT's

High pass filter at 18htz

Or

Crossover at 18htz and send to my Seaton SubMersives...

I would naturally think the crossover.

But someone tell me otherwise if I need to know something more.
I would crossover to the subs, but not sure that I would set the crossover as low as 18hz. At 20hz, which does a better job, speakers or subs?

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post #21699 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM
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Nice archaea!
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post #21700 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Good one Brandon. I really did LOL. 8 18" are the standard now.
Or four monster ported 18's

My Gear:

JTR Noesis 228HT (LCR)
Axiom Audio QS8 surrounds
Sherbourn PA 7-350
Pioneer VSX-21TXH
JVC RS45
Falcon Screens FVHD105
Dual PSA XS30's (gone but not forgotten)
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post #21701 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
What would I need to do from 30 htz down to make sure the "Ported" JTR 215RT's and the "sealed" Seatons play nice together. As they will be getting the same signal and I don't want to run into cancellation.

A lot of info about that and other good stuff in this thread: Blending ported and sealed - analog vs. digital HPF... and other ramblings....

Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Carp will tell you to put an analog HPF on the 215's as a digital one could cause some issues. This can be done with the very inexpensive behringer mic200, or any other device that can run analog filters low enough.

I found out that I has not tried a 12 db slope butterworth HPF. John suggested it specifically and huge shocker, he was dead on.

Blending ported and sealed - analog vs. digital HPF... and other ramblings....



So, basically what the mic2200 uses is a 12 db BW. It still bugs me that I can't get them to blend with a steeper slope but oh well.
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post #21702 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I know...I know...


We've tipped over the precipice of sanity around here.


Like I told you the other night, I'm done adding head room. As you noticed I've even reached the point where I don't go all out with the subs even for a demo. The 215's + 8 SI's is finally enough and then some for me.

Now, that doesn't mean I won't someday play with more with nearfield. I like that idea because I think my room is at a point where it is at it's limit and any more bass will start to hurt things. My back wall by the bathroom flexes so bad I can't believe it hasn't cracked yet.

Speaking of nearfield - I think I finally dialed in the mbm-12 to blend perfectly. It has always been fun to play with, but I always felt like it was either too subtle or called attention to itself, I could never find a happy medium so I didn't use it much. Well, a couple days ago I found a great combo of dsp on the 215's combined with distance settings and volume on the mbm. It's so punchy and I can't localize it either! However, it only works for the sweet spot seat - but that's all I care about.

I'll be watching Andrew as he comes up with something (nearfield) for his front row that's on concrete.
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post #21703 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 10:30 AM
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Carp... So bottom line is....

Do a digital 12 db slope butterworth HPF?
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post #21704 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Carp... So bottom line is....

Do a digital 12 db slope butterworth HPF?
That's what I have to do in my room. I also had to play with the sub distances beyond what MCACC set for the distances. I never used MCACC for anything but the distance settings and now I don't use that either.

In your room it could be different, I don't know. Do you have REW or an omnimic?
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post #21705 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 03:19 PM
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Hi all! I’ll be putting in an order for 212HT LCRs next month and I’m still trying to figure out what to do about surrounds, I’d really appreciate if some of the experts in this thread could chime in.

First, a little bit about the HT: The 212s are for a carpeted room that measures approx. 20’ x 12’ with 10’ ceilings (around 3000 cu ft.) with one wall open to a hallway, stairs, and the rest of the upstairs area. The HT will be used for about 60% music (all kinds) and 40% movies. The plan is to get dual PSA XV30fse subs (since the room is narrow, I need subs that are more vertical) and eventually, room treatments.

Having read through a large chunk of this thread, I know the usual advice regarding surrounds is to go with Single/Slanted-8s. The main problem is that I’m putting most of my speaker budget into the LCRs, opting for the 212s over the 228s because the compression driver is supposed to be better for music (and while the Single-8 is an outstanding speaker by all accounts, it seems like it’d be a better match to the triple-8 or T-12’s). I’m trying to keep my surrounds budget at or under $500 per speaker. Here are some of the options I’m considering, along with Pros/Cons (please correct my assumptions if any are wrong):
  • Option A: JBL-Pro 8350 ($550)
  • Pros: Uses high-quality compression driver in horn config; super high sensitivity; high power handling; very closely matched to 212s
  • Cons: Huge size for a surround speaker (18” x 18”); pricey; pro-cinema speaker might not sound good in narrow 12’ room; not sure how JBL pros sound with music?
  • Option B: Klipsch RB-81 II ($400)
  • Pros: Smaller cabinet for more versatile placement; super high sensitivity; better WAF
  • Cons: Supposedly harsh highs?; musicality?; lower extension not really needed; not the best bang for the buck
  • Option C: Chane Theater Ten ($350)
  • Pros: Successor to the SHO-10; decent price
  • Cons: Unproven performance; controversy about it being a cheap Chinese PA speaker rebranded as a pro-cinema/audio speaker?
  • Option D: Hsu Research HB-1 MK2 ($200)
  • Pros: Best price; highest WAF; better for music?
  • Cons: Sensitivity 10 DBs lower than the 212s, might not be able to keep up?; too much of mismatch?
  • Option F???

So that’s where I’m at. I’m leaning most heavily towards option A or B. Can you advise on the best option (possibly one not mentioned here)? Maybe clear up any misconceptions? Thanks!
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post #21706 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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Originally Posted by varneysa View Post
Hi all! I’ll be putting in an order for 212HT LCRs next month and I’m still trying to figure out what to do about surrounds, I’d really appreciate if some of the experts in this thread could chime in.

First, a little bit about the HT: The 212s are for a carpeted room that measures approx. 20’ x 12’ with 10’ ceilings (around 3000 cu ft.) with one wall open to a hallway, stairs, and the rest of the upstairs area. The HT will be used for about 60% music (all kinds) and 40% movies. The plan is to get dual PSA XV30fse subs (since the room is narrow, I need subs that are more vertical) and eventually, room treatments.

Having read through a large chunk of this thread, I know the usual advice regarding surrounds is to go with Single/Slanted-8s. The main problem is that I’m putting most of my speaker budget into the LCRs, opting for the 212s over the 228s because the compression driver is supposed to be better for music (and while the Single-8 is an outstanding speaker by all accounts, it seems like it’d be a better match to the triple-8 or T-12’s). I’m trying to keep my surrounds budget at or under $500 per speaker. Here are some of the options I’m considering, along with Pros/Cons (please correct my assumptions if any are wrong):
  • Option A: JBL-Pro 8350 ($550)
  • Pros: Uses high-quality compression driver in horn config; super high sensitivity; high power handling; very closely matched to 212s
  • Cons: Huge size for a surround speaker (18” x 18”); pricey; pro-cinema speaker might not sound good in narrow 12’ room; not sure how JBL pros sound with music?
  • Option B: Klipsch RB-81 II ($400)
  • Pros: Smaller cabinet for more versatile placement; super high sensitivity; better WAF
  • Cons: Supposedly harsh highs?; musicality?; lower extension not really needed; not the best bang for the buck
  • Option C: Chane Theater Ten ($350)
  • Pros: Successor to the SHO-10; decent price
  • Cons: Unproven performance; controversy about it being a cheap Chinese PA speaker rebranded as a pro-cinema/audio speaker?
  • Option D: Hsu Research HB-1 MK2 ($200)
  • Pros: Best price; highest WAF; better for music?
  • Cons: Sensitivity 10 DBs lower than the 212s, might not be able to keep up?; too much of mismatch?
  • Option F???

So that’s where I’m at. I’m leaning most heavily towards option A or B. Can you advise on the best option (possibly one not mentioned here)? Maybe clear up any misconceptions? Thanks!

For music are you mostly 2 channel or 5.1 music disks - or possibly PLIIx? I was a big pro logic 2x music guy before I bought the 212's. They converted me to 2 channel and I haven't gone back.

However, if you like a lot of 5.1 music disks I would recommend option A just from what I have seen posted from other members that have JTR's. I haven't heard the JBL's myself.


Option F:

My friend Archaea has Macke Pro surrounds (not sure the exact model, he will probably post a link) and got them dirt cheap. I heard them recently and they are an impressive surround speaker but they are large.

Any interest in DIY? The Volt 10's sound good and are very cheap. Beastaudio plans on making some of the same surrounds he has and will sell to people at some point so that could be a great option too because I heard his speakers and liked them every bit as much as the JTR S8's. I thought they were a step up from the Volt 10's but I have read that the Volt 10's have a better crossover now or something like that.
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post #21707 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 04:17 PM
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Since we are comparing oversized setups (this thread is the best btw!) And it is the JTR thread I feel compelled to throw 4 or more OS's as a good standard for bass as well! This is how I justify my bass being "sub" standard and need to get more. Haha. If the std becomes 32-18's then we all need to follow suit. This is like guerrilla marketing and it works!
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post #21708 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 04:46 PM
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JTR Single Eights are awesome - but like you I couldn't really consider them due to budget constraints.


Carp mentioned my Mackie C200 and at the risk of promoting something other than JTR or JBL in the JTR thread I'll just give a heads up that the Mackie C200 are stupid cheap for a nice quality, quite capable surround speaker.



SYSTEM Specifications:
High-precision 1.4" HF titanium compression driver and 10" LF transducer

Frequency Response (–3 dB):
89Hz – 20kHz

Frequency Range (–10 dB):
59Hz – 22kHz

Maximum SPL Long-term @ 1m: 118dB

Crossover Frequency: 1800Hz


AUDIO::

Input Type: Speakon®-style 1/4-inch TS phone jack

Input Impedance: 8 ohms

Power Handling: (RMS) 200 watts, (Peak) 500 watts


I got my nine for $129 shipped each new on an overstock deal from adorama camera. I looked for months on and off, probably years for a set of speakers I could buy cheap for surrounds. I spent too many hours looking for a deal and didn't even have the Mackies in mind - but was literally just looking up smaller PA speakers by all the big PA vendors and price searching. Found the C200 deal, pm'ed a few forum long timers for their opinion, but ended up jumping on them pretty fast to make sure I didn't miss the deal. If I was only a cinema guy - - I honestly could just run all nine of them that I own and be pretty darn pleased with just the Mackies. The JTR product is better - significantly better - but these are better than they have any right to be for the price I paid - especially for surround. Normal street price is only $200 each. They are not so great for true stereo left right use. My JTR 228HT own them there. Carp says the Mackie C200 sound like they have some sort of built in DSP that he doesn't like. I'm not sure what to think of them in stereo, but in all channel stereo - with nine of them going they rock and they best full theater systems I've heard at g2g's that cost many many times more. Reviews bear out the same opinions online. Most every one seems to rate them 4-5 stars with lots of reviews. The Mackie SRM350 is the powered version.


Here is a thread where I broke one down to look inside:
Mackie C200 - under the hood


You can mount them easily with a Home Depot Shelf and some dowel rods cut to length. Here's how I mounted them. I've since painted the shelf brackets and dowel rods black. They look really nice IMO. My wife isn't too enthused with the looks - she says they make my room look like a club. (DJ speakers she says -- well yes that's exactly what they are!?!?!) (post 50)
Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room

Musicians Friend reviews: (they are reviewed this good everywhere)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...-speaker-black








_

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint

Last edited by Archaea; Yesterday at 05:03 PM.
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post #21709 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
For music are you mostly 2 channel or 5.1 music disks - or possibly PLIIx? I was a big pro logic 2x music guy before I bought the 212's. They converted me to 2 channel and I haven't gone back.

However, if you like a lot of 5.1 music disks I would recommend option A just from what I have seen posted from other members that have JTR's. I haven't heard the JBL's myself.


Option F:

My friend Archaea has Macke Pro surrounds (not sure the exact model, he will probably post a link) and got them dirt cheap. I heard them recently and they are an impressive surround speaker but they are large.

Any interest in DIY? The Volt 10's sound good and are very cheap. Beastaudio plans on making some of the same surrounds he has and will sell to people at some point so that could be a great option too because I heard his speakers and liked them every bit as much as the JTR S8's. I thought they were a step up from the Volt 10's but I have read that the Volt 10's have a better crossover now or something like that.
Carp,

Thanks for the advice! I currently listen to music with PLIIx turned on. I prefer it to two-channel, but that might be just because my current speakers aren't that great. I might end up liking just the 212s in two-channel mode for music. But if I decide to listen to music multi-channel, I wonder how the JBLs will perform, considering they're designed for cinema?

I've read differing opinions on the DYI Volt-10s. Some claim they sound as good as the S-8s, while others say "not so much." No doubt you save a ton of money going the DYI route, I didn't list it however, because I'm still undecided whether or not I'd want to tackle building my own speakers. But I'd definitely be interested in the Beastaudio surrounds.
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post #21710 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
JTR Single Eights are awesome - but like you I couldn't really consider them due to budget constraints.


Carp mentioned my Mackie C200 and at the risk of promoting something other than JTR or JBL in the JTR thread I'll just give a heads up that the Mackie C200 are stupid cheap for a nice quality, quite capable surround speaker.



SYSTEM Specifications:
High-precision 1.4" HF titanium compression driver and 10" LF transducer

Frequency Response (–3 dB):
89Hz – 20kHz

Frequency Range (–10 dB):
59Hz – 22kHz

Maximum SPL Long-term @ 1m: 118dB

Crossover Frequency: 1800Hz


AUDIO::

Input Type: Speakon®-style 1/4-inch TS phone jack

Input Impedance: 8 ohms

Power Handling: (RMS) 200 watts, (Peak) 500 watts


I got my nine for $129 shipped each new on an overstock deal from adorama camera. I looked for months on and off, probably years for a set of speakers I could buy cheap for surrounds. I spent too many hours looking for a deal and didn't even have the Mackies in mind - but was literally just looking up smaller PA speakers by all the big PA vendors and price searching. Found the C200 deal, pm'ed a few forum long timers for their opinion, but ended up jumping on them pretty fast to make sure I didn't miss the deal. If I was only a cinema guy - - I honestly could just run all nine of them that I own and be pretty darn pleased with just the Mackies. The JTR product is better - significantly better - but these are better than they have any right to be for the price I paid - especially for surround. Normal street price is only $200 each. They are not so great for true stereo left right use. My JTR 228HT own them there. Carp says the Mackie C200 sound like they have some sort of built in DSP that he doesn't like. I'm not sure what to think of them in stereo, but in all channel stereo - with nine of them going they rock and they best full theater systems I've heard at g2g's that cost many many times more. Reviews bear out the same opinions online. Most every one seems to rate them 4-5 stars with lots of reviews. The Mackie SRM350 is the powered version.


Here is a thread where I broke one down to look inside:
Mackie C200 - under the hood


You can mount them easily with a Home Depot Shelf and some dowel rods cut to length. Here's how I mounted them. I've since painted the shelf brackets and dowel rods black. They look really nice IMO. My wife isn't too enthused with the looks - she says they make my room look like a club. (DJ speakers she says -- well yes that's exactly what they are!?!?!) (post 50)
Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room

Musicians Friend reviews: (they are reviewed this good everywhere)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...-speaker-black








_

Archaea,

Thanks for the recommendation. I'd never even heard of the Mackies. I'll definitely do some reading up on them. You say they're not the best for L-R music, what about surround duty for multi-channel music? How would they stack up against the JBLs or Klipschs for music?

BTW, I read your sub recommendations by price awhile back... awesome resource! Thanks for putting that list together.
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post #21711 of 21711 Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by varneysa View Post
Hi all! I’ll be putting in an order for 212HT LCRs next month and I’m still trying to figure out what to do about surrounds, I’d really appreciate if some of the experts in this thread could chime in.

First, a little bit about the HT: The 212s are for a carpeted room that measures approx. 20’ x 12’ with 10’ ceilings (around 3000 cu ft.) with one wall open to a hallway, stairs, and the rest of the upstairs area. The HT will be used for about 60% music (all kinds) and 40% movies. The plan is to get dual PSA XV30fse subs (since the room is narrow, I need subs that are more vertical) and eventually, room treatments.

Having read through a large chunk of this thread, I know the usual advice regarding surrounds is to go with Single/Slanted-8s. The main problem is that I’m putting most of my speaker budget into the LCRs, opting for the 212s over the 228s because the compression driver is supposed to be better for music (and while the Single-8 is an outstanding speaker by all accounts, it seems like it’d be a better match to the triple-8 or T-12’s). I’m trying to keep my surrounds budget at or under $500 per speaker. Here are some of the options I’m considering, along with Pros/Cons (please correct my assumptions if any are wrong):
  • Option A: JBL-Pro 8350 ($550)
  • Pros: Uses high-quality compression driver in horn config; super high sensitivity; high power handling; very closely matched to 212s
  • Cons: Huge size for a surround speaker (18” x 18”); pricey; pro-cinema speaker might not sound good in narrow 12’ room; not sure how JBL pros sound with music?
  • Option B: Klipsch RB-81 II ($400)
  • Pros: Smaller cabinet for more versatile placement; super high sensitivity; better WAF
  • Cons: Supposedly harsh highs?; musicality?; lower extension not really needed; not the best bang for the buck
  • Option C: Chane Theater Ten ($350)
  • Pros: Successor to the SHO-10; decent price
  • Cons: Unproven performance; controversy about it being a cheap Chinese PA speaker rebranded as a pro-cinema/audio speaker?
  • Option D: Hsu Research HB-1 MK2 ($200)
  • Pros: Best price; highest WAF; better for music?
  • Cons: Sensitivity 10 DBs lower than the 212s, might not be able to keep up?; too much of mismatch?
  • Option F???

So that’s where I’m at. I’m leaning most heavily towards option A or B. Can you advise on the best option (possibly one not mentioned here)? Maybe clear up any misconceptions? Thanks!
First of all, welcome to AVS and welcome to the JTR thread. I highly recommend you tread lightly in here because we will help you spend your money and money you don't have.

Let's just say when I first visited this forum less than two years ago, I was in love with Klipsch setup and my two HSU VTF-15H subs. Now I am on my third set of JTR speakers and own 8 - 18" subs, with another sub possibly on the way...

Anyways..back to your question.

Originally I had some Klipsch surrounds when I made the jump to JTR speakers. They quickly proved to be not the best choice for the JTR's so I started looking around. Ended up with a great deal on four of the 8340a's and they have been a great speaker. Yes, they are a big large. IMO, they do a darn good job when matched with the JTR's. Now, I am looking to change into something like the JTR Slanted 8 or something similar. Only reason being, I am a bit OCD and like my speakers to all match. Plus a smaller profile surround would be a better fit in my room.

If you don't have the budget for 2 or 4 of the slanted 8's, the JBL's could be the ticket. Check the used market out on those and you can find some GREAT deals. That is what I did and I scored four of them for under 1K.

Good luck!
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