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post #21751 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
My theater sucks to say it nice...My chief complaint is that my theater is dirty, the sound is horrible, you have people around you talking, cell phones, people getting up and down every 10 minutes, the visuals are bad and the list goes on. I would be happy to go to the theater if the above pic was the theater I was going to. When my theater is done, I don't see my self going to the movies for a really long time or at least until they get their act together.
I completely relate with and agree with your assessment! So many commercial theaters are just bad. I really hate hearing the adjascent screen speakers, really yanks you out of the movie and back to your sticky seat.
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post #21752 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:03 PM
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Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?

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post #21753 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:17 PM
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Which Panny do you have? And how big is it?

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post #21754 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:36 PM
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post #21755 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:48 PM
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Catalyst 12
215 RM
2 x 18" SI subs
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post #21756 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?

If I were you I would save up for a while longer and get LCR 228's and in the meantime watch the classifieds just to see if anyone is selling theirs - not a big chance but it could happen.

I think the 228 is the biggest non DIY bang for the buck speaker I have ever heard.
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post #21757 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:52 PM
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Haha, that's what I get for reading too fast you already have that option as #2 .

So, my vote is #2 .
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post #21758 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Catalyst 12
215 RM
2 x 18" SI subs
Yep, that's what I'm thinking.
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post #21759 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
Catalyst 12
215 RM
2 x 18" SI subs
And we have a winner! Coach and I are testing out some Cat12s for a few weeks. We hooked up the first Cat right out of the box and gave a quick, solo listen. I must say I was quite impressed, impressive for any speaker but especially one that hadn't been optimized in the least bit. Coach is going to give them a listen and then I'll bring them over to my house. I've been thinking about making a change from my 212 HT-LPs and the Cat12Cs could be the ticket.

We haven't done any A/B between the Cat12s and 215RMs but we will get to that at Coach's. And then I'll A/B the Cat12s against my 212 HT-LPs.
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post #21760 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 02:00 PM
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Yeah, the Cat's are an awesome speaker for sure! When people ask about JTR vs. Seaton I say it's a Coke vs. Pepsi thing both are great just depends on your individual taste.
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post #21761 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 02:00 PM
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Oh, and you can add Danley to that as well.
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post #21762 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 02:09 PM
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Oh, and you can add Danley to that as well.
Danley is off my list until they release their rumored SM60HT version. If that were a real product, I wouldn't be able to respond as I'd be on I-75 driving down to listen to it.
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post #21763 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 03:01 PM
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Hello all, moved my Orbit shifter from the front stage area near my LS9's to the left rear side wall where my SubMersive HP used to reside to see how it sounds so i could potentially re-locate my gear to the front stage area, the problem is it's now shaking my ceiling mounted front projector. I am wondering if any of you have had this problem and what your solution may have been. I am looking at trying an Auralex Subdude HT or Herbies audio lab giant fat gliders to see if one of them may make a difference otherwise I will have to move the OS back to the fronstage area, any experiences anyone has had would be great thank you!

I would look into dampening/decoupling measures as others have suggested. I know you said your space is height limited but if you place something like IB3 clips up there to attach it to the blocking that shouldn't take up a lot of space. Especially if you are able to turn it the short way.

It bugs the crap out of me when I have seen this happen in other rooms so I vowed to make sure it never happened in my own room.

My projector is outside of the room. It sits on a fairly heavy platform. The platform is attached to 2 walls with 4 IB3 clips. One wall is the back wall if the room and it is decoupled with clips and channel. The other wall is not shared with the theater. I also placed some left over 3/8" serenity mat on the platform it sits on.

Decoupling and dampening the best you can and providing as much mass as you can muster are your best bets. My next move if I had problems was going to be placing a slab of metal of some heavy variety on the platform under the serenity mat but it was not necessary thank goodness.
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post #21764 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?
I vote for a new TV or projector. You have a pretty darn decent setup already. Although the 228's may be an upgrade, I think the a visual upgrade is what I would do. A big ass TV really can immerse you into a movie. There are lots of good LED TV's now that are close to on par with plasma in PQ.

I vote #5
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post #21765 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 04:10 PM
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Or you could do a sweet projector and a DIY screen to get it really right! My current screen cost me a little over $60 to build with the brackets, wood, and material I bought at hancock fabrics. The PJ would be the cash outlay, and you could later improve on the screen with some legit material like the xd or falcon screens material and improve the picture quality even more, but to be honest, the little spandex fabric I am currently using does an absolute fantastic job....But I am not a video purist like some around here. I am sure my foot lamberts and color spectrum is not all that up to snuff for some around here, but the picture I am seeing looks better than my pretty good eyesight could poke any holes in

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post #21766 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 04:29 PM
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Yes, upgrade your screen. There is no going back once you have a "good" pj image.

Pm me if you would like to explore this option.
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post #21767 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.
My vote is for #2 - big upgrade from what you have and an outstanding all around speaker!
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post #21768 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 06:04 PM
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post #21769 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 06:07 PM
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X1000
$99

X2000
$199

X4000
$299



I google searched the x4000 and guys were clamoring for these when they have been on previous sales at $500 and even $650. They are the same series as the XLI, but colored white and sold only at musicians friend and guitar central. Good price. Great price.

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post #21770 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
X1000
$99

X2000
$199

X4000
$299



I google searched the x4000 and guys were clamoring for these when they have been on previous sales at $500 and even $650. They are the same series as the XLI, but colored white and sold only at musicians friend and guitar central. Good price. Great price.
I am glad you seen this. I was going to send it to you and Mr Carp. I am getting the 1000. Nice to have an amp laying around.
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post #21771 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 06:13 PM
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Originally Posted by jedimastergrant View Post
I would look into dampening/decoupling measures as others have suggested. I know you said your space is height limited but if you place something like IB3 clips up there to attach it to the blocking that shouldn't take up a lot of space. Especially if you are able to turn it the short way.

It bugs the crap out of me when I have seen this happen in other rooms so I vowed to make sure it never happened in my own room.

My projector is outside of the room. It sits on a fairly heavy platform. The platform is attached to 2 walls with 4 IB3 clips. One wall is the back wall if the room and it is decoupled with clips and channel. The other wall is not shared with the theater. I also placed some left over 3/8" serenity mat on the platform it sits on.

Decoupling and dampening the best you can and providing as much mass as you can muster are your best bets. My next move if I had problems was going to be placing a slab of metal of some heavy variety on the platform under the serenity mat but it was not necessary thank goodness.
Hello Jedimastergrant, this will be the winner sir! Great find! I will order some immediately and report back. I had to move the OS from the fronstage so I could make a change in that area. Looking to upgrade my projector from my older JVC DLA-RS1 to the Sony 55ES or JVC DLAX-500R so I will definately be using these either way thank you Jedi!
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post #21772 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjh65@verizon.ne View Post
Hello Jedimastergrant, this will be the winner sir! Great find! I will order some immediately and report back. I had to move the OS from the fronstage so I could make a change in that area. Looking to upgrade my projector from my older JVC DLA-RS1 to the Sony 55ES or JVC DLAX-500R so I will definately be using these either way thank you Jedi!
Yeah I think it is similar to what a few others suggested but I may have fleshed it out a bit better for you.

My situation is different than yours but here is what I did for reference. It is post 463 in my build thread. sunflower state cinema

Oh, and I need to update my thread. I now have 3 JTR Noesis 212 HT's up front. I am going to post some impressions after awhile here.

Congrats on the OS. I have one as well. It is an absolute beast of a sub. The best I have ever heard! One OS provides all of the headroom I need for my enclosed space. The shake is just incredible.

I have the JVC RS45 which is probably similar to your old PJ. I just saw the Sony 55ES at dlbeck
s and it was phenomenal even on a very large screen. If I was buying today that is what I would get. But, it will be a few years for me.
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post #21773 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?
#5 and it's not even close if you ask me. This is coming from an owner of a Pioneer Kuro. So I get it. The Kuro is basically the best image you have ever laid your eyes on. But, I don't use it in my theater. Immersion is really important. I also sit at 9 ft. Actually 9.5 ft. However, my screen is 9 ft wide. Trust me the tradeoff is well worth it. A good PJ and screen will give you a fantastic picture. It will not quite equal the plasma but you will never go back. Just make sure you are conserving brightness and sharpness by choosing a good pairing of PJ and screen. I mean don't go too big with the screen unless you plan to buy an absolute light canon which can cost more. You may or may not want/need a screen with gain to maintain foot lamberts. The Sony ES55 looks like the best thing going right now but you can buy a used Panny 8000 for probably a lot less (I don't know how much really). Make sure that your room is a black hole. Ambient light is the absolute KILLER for a front projection system.

I can tell you that my JVC RS45 and EN4K 9 ft wide 2.35:1 screen sitting at 9.5 ft in a dark room looks pretty phenomenal. You can use the wall paint for very cheap or go with the spandex as suggested earlier. My suggestion for a great material is the Center Stage XD from Seymour. You can buy this material for very cheap and DIY the screen to save money. And then you have an AT screen for your center channel to sit behind which will be an audio upgrade for you as well.

Here is an excellent place for you to start. http://http://www.accucalhd.com/docu...een_report.pdf This guy has some other good info out there if you search for it.

I have heard the JTR Triple 8's and liked them very much. Yes, the 212's are an upgrade. A very expensive one though. I think you should buy a moderately priced PJ and do the Center Stage XD with a DIY frame. Then in a year or so you can buy your dream front 3 speakers. After that you can worry about surrounds. In my opinion they are the least important component.
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post #21774 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 09:54 PM
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AMC Prime is the only thing that has rivaled my home theater experience. It is the whole thing - the incredible seats, the red glow JBL line arrays, the eight 18" subwoofers turned up loud!, the tactile transducers in the seats dialed into perfection, the enormous screen, high qauality projector, ATMOS. I've been to just two movies there, and while I agree the actual movies didn't really showcase atmos nearly as well as the opening Atmos demos - the entire experience was just fantastic.
AMC Prime Theaters! Dolby Atmos, Guitammer seat transducers, Reclining Electronic Leather Seats!

I totally agree. I go to that theater a lot too when I'm in KC and I LOVE the Prime theater as well as there IMAX. Seen Guardians of the Galaxy this weekend at the IMAX and loved it. Wanted to hear it in Atmos but the only showing we could make was in IMAX with our schedule. Both of those theaters have the bass hot for sure!

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post #21775 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 10:05 PM
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Just a heads up to the JTR crowd. I'm going to be putting some speaker pairs up for sale in the classifieds shortly. Figured I'd give the peeps here an advance notice. Anyone with an interest just pm me.

Going in stages. Danley's first, then JTR's as soon as budget permits .
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post #21776 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 10:06 PM
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I had to haul out the def tech mains yesterday and reconnect. Cause the wifey wanted to watch movies. Btw, my speakers has landed here in Hawaii. FedEx just called today to confirm the delivery Thursday . Anyway I did some playing around with REW. And tried did some eq. A lot o cuts just to even out the peaks. Still have that nasty dip at 100. And now I have a nasty one at 40. No matter what I do I cant get it fixed. Well except moving the subs around again. But I'll just do everything with the new speakers. Hopefully with the new speakers I have more to play with response wise. Another question, is there a way to run sweeps with like the subs and 2 or more speakers to take measurements? Like L/R and subs If there is a way, I cant find how to.lol.. I only now how with subs with 1 speaker at a time. Upper response is with R main speaker and subs. thanks guys...
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post #21777 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 10:42 PM
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Which Panny do you have? And how big is it?
50 inch Panasonic ST. It was the middle of the 5 models with the VT and GT above it in 2012.

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post #21778 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 10:49 PM
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Danley is off my list until they release their rumored SM60HT version. If that were a real product, I wouldn't be able to respond as I'd be on I-75 driving down to listen to it.
Spill. Google turned up nothing.
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post #21779 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 11:04 PM
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Spill. Google turned up nothing.
This is about as close as you'll get to information about a home theater version of the Danley SM60f. Sounds like they have a prototype but need to develop a new cabinet mold, which will likely take some time, more or less depending on priority level of the project.

DIY Danley Noesis?

If my initial listening of a single Cat12 is any indication...my journey may be over long before the new Danley's come out.
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post #21780 of 26429 Old 08-05-2014, 11:12 PM
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Oh, and I need to update my thread. I now have 3 JTR Noesis 212 HT's up front. I am going to post some impressions after awhile here.
Yeah, I'm surprised you haven't posted about this upgrade yet...
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