Official JTR speaker thread - Page 728 - AVS Forum
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post #21811 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:19 PM
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dlbeck, last time I read AVS in the Spring you were 70% done but just saw your avatar and went to your build thread. I know I am late to the party but it turned out flipping awesome!!! Great job.
Yeah Frohlich - you were my first poster on the thread - wondered where you disappeared to
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post #21812 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:21 PM
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Holy balls!!! 20,000! Man those look nice, has anyone heard them?
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post #21813 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:31 PM
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Also mentioned in one of the PM's I got was selling my dual submersives and being able to build a couple good ported subs like JBrown's monsters and then sell the Triple 8's and get 228 Noesis. That could be swung by just wheeling and dealing and then still do the PJ and screen setup! But I was given a great deal on the Submersives from a GOOD friend and I am not entirely comfortable at this point just selling them away. Besides I feel the dual submersives are the cornerstone of my system currently. But it spurs thoughts nonetheless...

plus ported subs would eliminate single digits and low teens which could be looked at as a plus for PJ and screen movement worries...

Depends on the port tune of the cabinets, I can hit single digits with my four subs. Now I know four monster cabinets isn't ideal for most but they work for me. I have extremely solid output down to 10hz, probably more then dual SubM HP's would even put up and for less then 3 grand, kind of hard to argue against that if you can live with big cabinets.


I was also going to sell my 228HT's and build something, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm crazy to do that!....lol
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post #21814 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
dlbeck, last time I read AVS in the Spring you were 70% done but just saw your avatar and went to your build thread. I know I am late to the party but it turned out flipping awesome!!! Great job.
Holy cow Frohlich, I thought you feel off of the face of the earth. You haven't posted for a long time.
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post #21815 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Holy balls!!! 20,000! Man those look nice, has anyone heard them?
I seen that they are listed at 6K a piece, still allot of coin. I am going to see if I can invite myself for a demo.
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post #21816 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 03:58 PM
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I seen that they are listed at 6K a piece, still allot of coin. I am going to see if I can invite myself for a demo.
That's without amplification or the DSP processor. It's an active design, so those are necessary components.
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post #21817 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 04:15 PM
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Holy cow Frohlich, I thought you feel off of the face of the earth. You haven't posted for a long time.
This guy on this forum kept tormenting me about getting an AT screen so I went to Tibet for a few months to find the true meaning of HT. I saw a few Yeti but didn't find the inner HT peace I was looking for
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post #21818 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
The mystery speaker is(drum roll).......The JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

Although this is not news to many if my pm box is any indication
I have read lots of great things about the M2's. The guy who runs AIX swears by them.

Would love to hear a set someday.

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post #21819 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 04:54 PM
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I have a JVCRS1x that I haven't listed on classifieds but would let it go to an AVS member wanting to step into the big screen ht experience. I know it's a few years old but if not worried about 3D then would be a good first pj and save money for speakers, subs, screen,etc...
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post #21820 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 04:55 PM
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Holy smokes! I have one sitting in a box in my basement. I guess I should finally buy a screen and actually use it!






Yea, true that.

The mystery speaker is(drum roll).......

The JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

Although this is not news to many if my pm box is any indication
What, someone was actually interested ...


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post #21821 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
What, someone was actually interested ...
Your disinterest was notable
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post #21822 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
This guy on this forum kept tormenting me about getting an AT screen so I went to Tibet for a few months to find the true meaning of HT. I saw a few Yeti but didn't find the inner HT peace I was looking for
There will be no peace without transparency ... acoustic that is ...


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post #21823 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 05:11 PM
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+1 - I'm just a lurker that chimes in with an oohhh or an ahhh from time to time.
+2

I love this thread and all the cool fellas that post here. I'm always lurking around.
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post #21824 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
This guy on this forum kept tormenting me about getting an AT screen so I went to Tibet for a few months to find the true meaning of HT. I saw a few Yeti but didn't find the inner HT peace I was looking for
LOL.... okay I'll try to lay off of the AT screen comments...lol


No it's funny, you get so use to certain forum members posting daily that when they don't for a while you almost wonder if everything is okay with them. For example steve nn hasn't posted in a LONG time and he would post daily and at least once a week we'd shoot pm's back and forth just shooting the sh!t, I haven't heard from him since April so no I genially worry a little that something has happened too him. It's strange, I don't really know anyone on this forum personally but if guys like Archaea, Carp, RMK and all of the regulars went like a few months without posting you start to wonder if something bad happened to them.
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post #21825 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 05:53 PM
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Fan noise on the Sony 55 is very minimal. I don't ever recall a time that I was sitting down and watching something and thought "boy, that projector is loud." This is true even sitting directly below the projector (about 28" clearance).
This is great news. I don't have any PJ experience at all and want to cover all the possibilities. I could possibly build a custom shelf to house the PJ just behind the couch. Not too fond of it there since the room is open behind the couch into a little dining area. But it would work.

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post #21826 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:07 PM
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We won't know how good they are until we get our meters and eyes on them. That's why I said "might". All we're asking for are Kuro/Sharp Elite blacks AND VT60 calibration ability. "If" it happens it'll be the TV to buy despite typical degraded off angle viewing.

If you can incorporate a FP I'd say do it in a heartbeat for movie viewing. With a high end audio system there is no comparison despite lousy blacks. In flies in the face of the well known fact that contrast ratio is the most important picture quality aspect. The immersion effect overrules the "rules".

My last FP theater was 20-25 years ago and was nothing special due to low screen luminance and standard def material. My new theater, however, with both excellent picture and sound has made a believer out of me.

I can't hear the fans on my Sony and have no other experience.

Distance is dependent on screen material and viewing angle. AT screens need a little room but I can get very close to my XD with it's mini holes. There are varying ideas re: viewing angle, THX, etc. Personally I believe you can nose up to a flat panel, see where too close begins, and calculate the angle from there. Then translate to a big screen. My front row is 11' from a 120" wide 16:9 screen and I could go closer by a couple feet with no problem. My second row is about 16' and I find that not as pleasurable.
Yes time will tell. I have some research to do as far as the AT material in relation to sitting distance. I currently sit 8.5 ft from my TV screen. The wall is 9.5ft. The Triple 8LP I have for center channel is 7.5 inches thick and there is a window behind there I have stuffed with Roxul AFB. I could gain a little more clearance from that. So the screen could sit slightly closer to the wall than the tv. I could creep the couch back as well but I wouldn't want to go more than another half ft for physical layout reasons. But mainly I have the seating in the absolute best bass response area in the entire room.

Looked at the ES55 a little more and I like it so far...I can say I will calibrate correctly with the Spears & Munsill disc and my oppo and darbee processing should help. I do tend to prefer the brighter side. For example, I brush up against the correct calibration and too bright line...

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post #21827 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:13 PM
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Then DO IT! Focus on the projector situation first, then focus on the screen later. If I were you:

1) Budget for great projector vs good PJ (Looking in the $1800-$2500) assuming your screen could be less than $100 all-in
2) See what comes of your speaker sales and work on improvement of the front stage.
3) Come back and look at a "real" Projection screen. It will improve that much more, but in the between time you may decide you want to go bigger, smaller, or to a different format, and the good news is, you are only out $100 bucks. By this point in time you will have the best grasp on what format and size screen you really want. I remember when I built out my 106" screen and thinking, "There is no way I would ever need bigger." Well, I moved from that about a year later up to 126" and now am at 138" and spent quite a bit of money during the process to get here. Now I am tossing the jvc 4910 which would be one of the "great" projectors onto a $60 screen and no one would know the difference between it and a $5,000 firefox screen if I didn't tell them...
I like it! Like I just mentioned to buzz and earlier about jedimastergrant giving me some great ideas to even do AT and get my center in the perfect position. As far as the subwoofer situation and speaker situation I will think on that. But I am already mentally committed to a PJ like the ES55 range/quality and screen. I have plenty of time to get my research done. But when I mentally commit it as is good as done lol!

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post #21828 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Depends on the port tune of the cabinets, I can hit single digits with my four subs. Now I know four monster cabinets isn't ideal for most but they work for me. I have extremely solid output down to 10hz, probably more then dual SubM HP's would even put up and for less then 3 grand, kind of hard to argue against that if you can live with big cabinets.


I was also going to sell my 228HT's and build something, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm crazy to do that!....lol
Well I take first dibbs on your 228's if you do

What was the general cost of your monster ported sub? I would build two so what would that run?

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post #21829 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:43 PM
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Yes time will tell. I have some research to do as far as the AT material in relation to sitting distance. I currently sit 8.5 ft from my TV screen. The wall is 9.5ft. The Triple 8LP I have for center channel is 7.5 inches thick and there is a window behind there I have stuffed with Roxul AFB. I could gain a little more clearance from that. So the screen could sit slightly closer to the wall than the tv. I could creep the couch back as well but I wouldn't want to go more than another half ft for physical layout reasons. But mainly I have the seating in the absolute best bass response area in the entire room.

Looked at the ES55 a little more and I like it so far...I can say I will calibrate correctly with the Spears & Munsill disc and my oppo and darbee processing should help. I do tend to prefer the brighter side. For example, I brush up against the correct calibration and too bright line...
the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.

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post #21830 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:48 PM
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the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
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post #21831 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 06:52 PM
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Well I take first dibbs on your 228's if you do

What was the general cost of your monster ported sub? I would build two so what would that run?
It basically cost me $3000 to build all four, buy the drivers and the two amps and get the connectors and cords.


You could buy four of the new UM18-22 drivers for about $1068 shipped and a Peavey IPR2 5000 for $700 shipped and power all four it. Wire the drivers as a paralleled load so two drivers per channel as a 2ohm load and away you go. I'm sure you could build four ported cabinets for a grand total of under $2500. Hard to beat that value. If you wanted to only build two go with a iNuke 6000DSP for only $400 and two UM18-22's for $560. Probably cost you less then $1500 total to build two cabinets with amps, drivers, connectors, cables and wood.

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post #21832 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 07:33 PM
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the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
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post #21833 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 08:19 PM
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If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #21834 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 08:25 PM
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I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
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post #21835 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 08:36 PM
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I'll be listening to the M2's Friday if all goes well. YIKES :eek

There could be a yard sale of audio equipment and speakers in NJ soon, lol.

Who knows though, maybe I won't like them. I'm trying my best to psych myself up to try and avoid the "shiny new toy" phenomenon and be as objective as I can. This particular purchase is a bit bigger than any before it and I want to try and insulate myself from the hype when I sit down in front of them. I don't know if that's even possible...
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post #21836 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 08:46 PM
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Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!

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post #21837 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 08:50 PM
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I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!
Yeah me too, I get headaches from DLP because I can see rainbows. Same reason why I don't bother with 3D, the active glasses give me a wicked headache. Hopefully one day we'll have consumer grade projectors with passive glasses just like the commercial theaters have now.
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post #21838 of 23856 Old 08-06-2014, 10:25 PM
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I'll be listening to the M2's Friday if all goes well. YIKES :eek

There could be a yard sale of audio equipment and speakers in NJ soon, lol.

Who knows though, maybe I won't like them. I'm trying my best to psych myself up to try and avoid the "shiny new toy" phenomenon and be as objective as I can. This particular purchase is a bit bigger than any before it and I want to try and insulate myself from the hype when I sit down in front of them. I don't know if that's even possible...
Whatever you do, it will be the right thing ...

Very interested in your impression of the M2 so please post here.


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"Well, la di fricken da."!
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post #21839 of 23856 Old 08-07-2014, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
That is why I have the Sony....because I game quite a bit. It offered the best combination of picture and game lag in the price range I was looking for. Like you, I am waiting a little longer on 4K so the chipsets are standardized and there is some actual content to watch. Doesn't sound like 4K blu ray is any closer to being released and the 4K streaming doesn't do much for me...the early reports are that it looks very similar to 1080P streaming.


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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Last edited by Frohlich; 08-07-2014 at 03:49 AM.
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post #21840 of 23856 Old 08-07-2014, 05:59 AM
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No it's funny, you get so use to certain forum members posting daily that when they don't for a while you almost wonder if everything is okay with them. For example steve nn hasn't posted in a LONG time and he would post daily and at least once a week we'd shoot pm's back and forth just shooting the sh!t, I haven't heard from him since April so no I genially worry a little that something has happened too him. It's strange, I don't really know anyone on this forum personally but if guys like Archaea, Carp, RMK and all of the regulars went like a few months without posting you start to wonder if something bad happened to them.
The problem with being active in the forums is that it fuels the addiction and you wind up spending a lot of money. Every time I poke my head in I always wind up buying something.

Just started to lurk again and already bought a iNuke DSP 3000 so I can do the mid-bass boost on my T12s and I am having a hard time resisting PMing Gooddoc for more information on his N212s.
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