Official JTR speaker thread - Page 728 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21811 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post
We won't know how good they are until we get our meters and eyes on them. That's why I said "might". All we're asking for are Kuro/Sharp Elite blacks AND VT60 calibration ability. "If" it happens it'll be the TV to buy despite typical degraded off angle viewing.

If you can incorporate a FP I'd say do it in a heartbeat for movie viewing. With a high end audio system there is no comparison despite lousy blacks. In flies in the face of the well known fact that contrast ratio is the most important picture quality aspect. The immersion effect overrules the "rules".

My last FP theater was 20-25 years ago and was nothing special due to low screen luminance and standard def material. My new theater, however, with both excellent picture and sound has made a believer out of me.

I can't hear the fans on my Sony and have no other experience.

Distance is dependent on screen material and viewing angle. AT screens need a little room but I can get very close to my XD with it's mini holes. There are varying ideas re: viewing angle, THX, etc. Personally I believe you can nose up to a flat panel, see where too close begins, and calculate the angle from there. Then translate to a big screen. My front row is 11' from a 120" wide 16:9 screen and I could go closer by a couple feet with no problem. My second row is about 16' and I find that not as pleasurable.
Yes time will tell. I have some research to do as far as the AT material in relation to sitting distance. I currently sit 8.5 ft from my TV screen. The wall is 9.5ft. The Triple 8LP I have for center channel is 7.5 inches thick and there is a window behind there I have stuffed with Roxul AFB. I could gain a little more clearance from that. So the screen could sit slightly closer to the wall than the tv. I could creep the couch back as well but I wouldn't want to go more than another half ft for physical layout reasons. But mainly I have the seating in the absolute best bass response area in the entire room.

Looked at the ES55 a little more and I like it so far...I can say I will calibrate correctly with the Spears & Munsill disc and my oppo and darbee processing should help. I do tend to prefer the brighter side. For example, I brush up against the correct calibration and too bright line...

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post #21812 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Then DO IT! Focus on the projector situation first, then focus on the screen later. If I were you:

1) Budget for great projector vs good PJ (Looking in the $1800-$2500) assuming your screen could be less than $100 all-in
2) See what comes of your speaker sales and work on improvement of the front stage.
3) Come back and look at a "real" Projection screen. It will improve that much more, but in the between time you may decide you want to go bigger, smaller, or to a different format, and the good news is, you are only out $100 bucks. By this point in time you will have the best grasp on what format and size screen you really want. I remember when I built out my 106" screen and thinking, "There is no way I would ever need bigger." Well, I moved from that about a year later up to 126" and now am at 138" and spent quite a bit of money during the process to get here. Now I am tossing the jvc 4910 which would be one of the "great" projectors onto a $60 screen and no one would know the difference between it and a $5,000 firefox screen if I didn't tell them...
I like it! Like I just mentioned to buzz and earlier about jedimastergrant giving me some great ideas to even do AT and get my center in the perfect position. As far as the subwoofer situation and speaker situation I will think on that. But I am already mentally committed to a PJ like the ES55 range/quality and screen. I have plenty of time to get my research done. But when I mentally commit it as is good as done lol!

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post #21813 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:17 PM
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Depends on the port tune of the cabinets, I can hit single digits with my four subs. Now I know four monster cabinets isn't ideal for most but they work for me. I have extremely solid output down to 10hz, probably more then dual SubM HP's would even put up and for less then 3 grand, kind of hard to argue against that if you can live with big cabinets.


I was also going to sell my 228HT's and build something, but the more I think about it the more I think I'm crazy to do that!....lol
Well I take first dibbs on your 228's if you do

What was the general cost of your monster ported sub? I would build two so what would that run?

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post #21814 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Yes time will tell. I have some research to do as far as the AT material in relation to sitting distance. I currently sit 8.5 ft from my TV screen. The wall is 9.5ft. The Triple 8LP I have for center channel is 7.5 inches thick and there is a window behind there I have stuffed with Roxul AFB. I could gain a little more clearance from that. So the screen could sit slightly closer to the wall than the tv. I could creep the couch back as well but I wouldn't want to go more than another half ft for physical layout reasons. But mainly I have the seating in the absolute best bass response area in the entire room.

Looked at the ES55 a little more and I like it so far...I can say I will calibrate correctly with the Spears & Munsill disc and my oppo and darbee processing should help. I do tend to prefer the brighter side. For example, I brush up against the correct calibration and too bright line...
the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.

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post #21815 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:48 PM
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the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
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post #21816 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 06:52 PM
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Well I take first dibbs on your 228's if you do

What was the general cost of your monster ported sub? I would build two so what would that run?
It basically cost me $3000 to build all four, buy the drivers and the two amps and get the connectors and cords.


You could buy four of the new UM18-22 drivers for about $1068 shipped and a Peavey IPR2 5000 for $700 shipped and power all four it. Wire the drivers as a paralleled load so two drivers per channel as a 2ohm load and away you go. I'm sure you could build four ported cabinets for a grand total of under $2500. Hard to beat that value. If you wanted to only build two go with a iNuke 6000DSP for only $400 and two UM18-22's for $560. Probably cost you less then $1500 total to build two cabinets with amps, drivers, connectors, cables and wood.

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post #21817 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
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post #21818 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 08:19 PM
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If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.

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post #21819 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 08:25 PM
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I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
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post #21820 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 08:36 PM
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I'll be listening to the M2's Friday if all goes well. YIKES :eek

There could be a yard sale of audio equipment and speakers in NJ soon, lol.

Who knows though, maybe I won't like them. I'm trying my best to psych myself up to try and avoid the "shiny new toy" phenomenon and be as objective as I can. This particular purchase is a bit bigger than any before it and I want to try and insulate myself from the hype when I sit down in front of them. I don't know if that's even possible...
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post #21821 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 08:46 PM
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Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!

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post #21822 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 08:50 PM
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I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!
Yeah me too, I get headaches from DLP because I can see rainbows. Same reason why I don't bother with 3D, the active glasses give me a wicked headache. Hopefully one day we'll have consumer grade projectors with passive glasses just like the commercial theaters have now.
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post #21823 of 31063 Old 08-06-2014, 10:25 PM
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I'll be listening to the M2's Friday if all goes well. YIKES :eek

There could be a yard sale of audio equipment and speakers in NJ soon, lol.

Who knows though, maybe I won't like them. I'm trying my best to psych myself up to try and avoid the "shiny new toy" phenomenon and be as objective as I can. This particular purchase is a bit bigger than any before it and I want to try and insulate myself from the hype when I sit down in front of them. I don't know if that's even possible...
Whatever you do, it will be the right thing ...

Very interested in your impression of the M2 so please post here.

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post #21824 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 03:41 AM
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I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
That is why I have the Sony....because I game quite a bit. It offered the best combination of picture and game lag in the price range I was looking for. Like you, I am waiting a little longer on 4K so the chipsets are standardized and there is some actual content to watch. Doesn't sound like 4K blu ray is any closer to being released and the 4K streaming doesn't do much for me...the early reports are that it looks very similar to 1080P streaming.

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post #21825 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 05:59 AM
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No it's funny, you get so use to certain forum members posting daily that when they don't for a while you almost wonder if everything is okay with them. For example steve nn hasn't posted in a LONG time and he would post daily and at least once a week we'd shoot pm's back and forth just shooting the sh!t, I haven't heard from him since April so no I genially worry a little that something has happened too him. It's strange, I don't really know anyone on this forum personally but if guys like Archaea, Carp, RMK and all of the regulars went like a few months without posting you start to wonder if something bad happened to them.
The problem with being active in the forums is that it fuels the addiction and you wind up spending a lot of money. Every time I poke my head in I always wind up buying something.

Just started to lurk again and already bought a iNuke DSP 3000 so I can do the mid-bass boost on my T12s and I am having a hard time resisting PMing Gooddoc for more information on his N212s.
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post #21826 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 06:51 AM
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^^^ Tell me about it. After reading about Gooddoc's interest in the JBL M2 and watching a few video testimonials, I found a great deal from a local source and I will be getting new LCR's in the next week. The 215RT's, the LG amp, Rane Processor will be sold and perhaps the surrounds too.

I will miss you guys ...
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post #21827 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 07:23 AM
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^^^ I have no idea who spoofed my account and posted that nonsense but I have no intention of selling anything. I'm calling the FBI ...







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post #21828 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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^^^ I have no idea who spoofed my account and posted that nonsense but I have no intention of selling anything. I'm calling the FBI ...







Hey, while you are on the horn with the FBI, can you order me a large meat lovers pizza. Thanks bud!!!!
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post #21829 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 09:08 AM
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^^^ Tell me about it. After reading about Gooddoc's interest in the JBL M2 and watching a few video testimonials, I found a great deal from a local source and I will be getting new LCR's in the next week. The 215RT's, the LG amp, Rane Processor will be sold and perhaps the surrounds too.

I will miss you guys ...
That's your subconscious breaking through....

Your mind has been unable to ignore what these speakers represent. I get it .
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post #21830 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 09:25 AM
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Holy balls!!! 20,000! Man those look nice, has anyone heard them?
I'll let you know tomorrow. But if you are a believer in Harman's listening research and their speaker test comparison equipment and facilities, as I am, then an interesting factoid is that these speakers were blindly compared by listening panels after each design iteration against the best speakers in the world and then improved each time based on those results. Over and over again. Utilizing some of the finest drivers on the planet.

Probably sounds like crap...
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post #21831 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 09:44 AM
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Probably sounds like crap…
I am hoping they do For your sake and mine
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post #21832 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 10:23 AM
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Attachment 198505

I had to haul out the def tech mains yesterday and reconnect. Cause the wifey wanted to watch movies. Btw, my speakers has landed here in Hawaii. FedEx just called today to confirm the delivery Thursday . Anyway I did some playing around with REW. And tried did some eq. A lot o cuts just to even out the peaks. Still have that nasty dip at 100. And now I have a nasty one at 40. No matter what I do I cant get it fixed. Well except moving the subs around again. But I'll just do everything with the new speakers. Hopefully with the new speakers I have more to play with response wise. Another question, is there a way to run sweeps with like the subs and 2 or more speakers to take measurements? Like L/R and subs If there is a way, I cant find how to.lol.. I only now how with subs with 1 speaker at a time. Upper response is with R main speaker and subs. thanks guys...
I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
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post #21833 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 10:44 AM
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Holy smokes! I have one sitting in a box in my basement. I guess I should finally buy a screen and actually use it!






Yea, true that.

The mystery speaker is(drum roll).......

The JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

Although this is not news to many if my pm box is any indication
Whoa...(Left Field). I didn't see that coming....

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That's without amplification or the DSP processor. It's an active design, so those are necessary components.
I looked at the papers and such on it. Being an active design, with the full suite of software included, I can imagine it will be a VERY impressive speaker, but without it? A plain ole passive build out? Not sure how much more impressive it could be over many other designs near or slightly below its pricepoint. DSP and amplification as a full suite can do a LOT of things to make a speaker appear to be more impressive. Case and point, I took a look at its response and it does in fact have a gradual sloping mid to low section that is pretty aggressive. MUCH more-so than any other speaker's native response that I have seen. Interesting indeed, but the argue would remain, if you did that with the 215's, danley's, Cats or the like, could you subjectively get them to mimic the type of sound that so many prefer through this JBL package? With enough effort, I bet you could
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post #21834 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 11:12 AM
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I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
Shouldn't you be getting ready for a massive storm that's going to be hitting you guys tomorrow? Man I saw some news feed about the line ups for people trying to buy gas and supplies before that storm hits shore!..lol crazy.
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post #21835 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Shouldn't you be getting ready for a massive storm that's going to be hitting you guys tomorrow? Man I saw some news feed about the line ups for people trying to buy gas and supplies before that storm hits shore!..lol crazy.
Yea.. I did my shopping already earlier this week. So I don't have to go through that madness.. Lol.. It's gonna hit full at the neighbor island (Big Island) by night. And Oahu where I'm at and Kauai will be tropical storms. And we have a another one behind that one too. I have all my gas for my generetors, supplies, water, home is secure and it's a good thing my home is gas. So I have gas stove. Can't really do after that but wait for it to pass. Just trying to be normal then panicking lol..
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post #21836 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
If you didn't take off work...I would have wondered about your commitment.

I didn't even know this was available the first couple months I used REW so you're ahead of me. Anyway, to play to 2 outputs, you need to use Output and Timing Reference Output. It's so obvious I have no clue why I didn't figure that out sooner. And even searches on the net didn't make that real clear when I was searching for 2 outputs. Good luck and have fun.

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post #21837 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
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+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
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If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
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I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
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Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
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I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!
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Yeah me too, I get headaches from DLP because I can see rainbows. Same reason why I don't bother with 3D, the active glasses give me a wicked headache. Hopefully one day we'll have consumer grade projectors with passive glasses just like the commercial theaters have now.
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That is why I have the Sony....because I game quite a bit. It offered the best combination of picture and game lag in the price range I was looking for. Like you, I am waiting a little longer on 4K so the chipsets are standardized and there is some actual content to watch. Doesn't sound like 4K blu ray is any closer to being released and the 4K streaming doesn't do much for me...the early reports are that it looks very similar to 1080P streaming.
Sounds like I have some research to do lol! I don't really like 3d but that has been in local iMax and my 50 inch panasonic plasma has the glasses that dim and I always felt it was just too dark to enjoy. Honestly 2d will be heavily dominant unless someone convinces me 3d on a Sony 55ES is better at home with a 100 inch screen 8.5ft away...I do game and will be playing Destiny online. I do like the theater surround sound and it's baddass for gaming but I do have a lazy boy flanked to the right in my room that I have a 25inch Asus computer monitor on an Ergatron arm that makes for a nice little gaming station. Is the 2d picture is better on the JVC RS45 (the model you guys are comparing to right?). Dlbeck seems to have a point with Nyal's recommendation though. I do remember someone saying his picture was the best they had ever seen. Of course I will be throwing on a DIY screen too lol. But I would be happy with either I know...Blackout shades here I come!!!!

Also I decided that in trying to do an AT screen in a living room (where the is a will there is a way!) the Triple 8LP based on its size of 7.5 inches thick it will be best to stay with it. I could still try for LR 228 Noesis but I think I am going to continue on the path of slowly building. So stay with Submersives and focus on the PJ setup and ambient light containment...The more I think about it I like being able to game on my system so the 55ES may be the one...
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post #21838 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 12:20 PM
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If you didn't take off work...I would have wondered about your commitment.

I didn't even know this was available the first couple months I used REW so you're ahead of me. Anyway, to play to 2 outputs, you need to use Output and Timing Reference Output. It's so obvious I have no clue why I didn't figure that out sooner. And even searches on the net didn't make that real clear when I was searching for 2 outputs. Good luck and have fun.

Ok great.. Thanks dgage.
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post #21839 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 12:36 PM
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Yea.. I did my shopping already earlier this week. So I don't have to go through that madness.. Lol.. It's gonna hit full at the neighbor island (Big Island) by night. And Oahu where I'm at and Kauai will be tropical storms. And we have a another one behind that one too. I have all my gas for my generetors, supplies, water, home is secure and it's a good thing my home is gas. So I have gas stove. Can't really do after that but wait for it to pass. Just trying to be normal then panicking lol..
Hope all is good. Seems like a small one so you should be good. The surge is the worst part of it. Are you close to the sea? We have went though this the last few years with Irene and Sandy. When Sandy was coming, I bought like 35 gallons of gas for the generator and we never lost power. We have been looking at the whole house generators at home depot, we set up an appointment, we just have to commit to it. They are pricey, but it will be nice running my home theater the next time the power goes out for a day or a week.
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post #21840 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 01:06 PM
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Hope all is good. Seems like a small one so you should be good. The surge is the worst part of it. Are you close to the sea? We have went though this the last few years with Irene and Sandy. When Sandy was coming, I bought like 35 gallons of gas for the generator and we never lost power. We have been looking at the whole house generators at home depot, we set up an appointment, we just have to commit to it. They are pricey, but it will be nice running my home theater the next time the power goes out for a day or a week.
I'm not close to the sea or near a beach. But yea, latest is that the hurricane is weakening. But still a category 1. Our neighbor island will get hit the most. But still, hurricanes can shift and get stronger.
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