Official JTR speaker thread - Page 729 - AVS Forum
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post #21841 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 06:51 AM
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^^^ Tell me about it. After reading about Gooddoc's interest in the JBL M2 and watching a few video testimonials, I found a great deal from a local source and I will be getting new LCR's in the next week. The 215RT's, the LG amp, Rane Processor will be sold and perhaps the surrounds too.

I will miss you guys ...
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post #21842 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 07:23 AM
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^^^ I have no idea who spoofed my account and posted that nonsense but I have no intention of selling anything. I'm calling the FBI ...







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post #21843 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 08:10 AM
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^^^ I have no idea who spoofed my account and posted that nonsense but I have no intention of selling anything. I'm calling the FBI ...







Hey, while you are on the horn with the FBI, can you order me a large meat lovers pizza. Thanks bud!!!!
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post #21844 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
^^^ Tell me about it. After reading about Gooddoc's interest in the JBL M2 and watching a few video testimonials, I found a great deal from a local source and I will be getting new LCR's in the next week. The 215RT's, the LG amp, Rane Processor will be sold and perhaps the surrounds too.

I will miss you guys ...
That's your subconscious breaking through....

Your mind has been unable to ignore what these speakers represent. I get it .

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
JTR S2 x 2
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post #21845 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Holy balls!!! 20,000! Man those look nice, has anyone heard them?
I'll let you know tomorrow. But if you are a believer in Harman's listening research and their speaker test comparison equipment and facilities, as I am, then an interesting factoid is that these speakers were blindly compared by listening panels after each design iteration against the best speakers in the world and then improved each time based on those results. Over and over again. Utilizing some of the finest drivers on the planet.

Probably sounds like crap...
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post #21846 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 09:44 AM
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Probably sounds like crap…
I am hoping they do For your sake and mine
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post #21847 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 10:23 AM
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Attachment 198505

I had to haul out the def tech mains yesterday and reconnect. Cause the wifey wanted to watch movies. Btw, my speakers has landed here in Hawaii. FedEx just called today to confirm the delivery Thursday . Anyway I did some playing around with REW. And tried did some eq. A lot o cuts just to even out the peaks. Still have that nasty dip at 100. And now I have a nasty one at 40. No matter what I do I cant get it fixed. Well except moving the subs around again. But I'll just do everything with the new speakers. Hopefully with the new speakers I have more to play with response wise. Another question, is there a way to run sweeps with like the subs and 2 or more speakers to take measurements? Like L/R and subs If there is a way, I cant find how to.lol.. I only now how with subs with 1 speaker at a time. Upper response is with R main speaker and subs. thanks guys...
I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
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post #21848 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 10:44 AM
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Holy smokes! I have one sitting in a box in my basement. I guess I should finally buy a screen and actually use it!






Yea, true that.

The mystery speaker is(drum roll).......

The JBL M2 Master Reference Monitor

Although this is not news to many if my pm box is any indication
Whoa...(Left Field). I didn't see that coming....

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That's without amplification or the DSP processor. It's an active design, so those are necessary components.
I looked at the papers and such on it. Being an active design, with the full suite of software included, I can imagine it will be a VERY impressive speaker, but without it? A plain ole passive build out? Not sure how much more impressive it could be over many other designs near or slightly below its pricepoint. DSP and amplification as a full suite can do a LOT of things to make a speaker appear to be more impressive. Case and point, I took a look at its response and it does in fact have a gradual sloping mid to low section that is pretty aggressive. MUCH more-so than any other speaker's native response that I have seen. Interesting indeed, but the argue would remain, if you did that with the 215's, danley's, Cats or the like, could you subjectively get them to mimic the type of sound that so many prefer through this JBL package? With enough effort, I bet you could
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post #21849 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
Shouldn't you be getting ready for a massive storm that's going to be hitting you guys tomorrow? Man I saw some news feed about the line ups for people trying to buy gas and supplies before that storm hits shore!..lol crazy.
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post #21850 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Shouldn't you be getting ready for a massive storm that's going to be hitting you guys tomorrow? Man I saw some news feed about the line ups for people trying to buy gas and supplies before that storm hits shore!..lol crazy.
Yea.. I did my shopping already earlier this week. So I don't have to go through that madness.. Lol.. It's gonna hit full at the neighbor island (Big Island) by night. And Oahu where I'm at and Kauai will be tropical storms. And we have a another one behind that one too. I have all my gas for my generetors, supplies, water, home is secure and it's a good thing my home is gas. So I have gas stove. Can't really do after that but wait for it to pass. Just trying to be normal then panicking lol..
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post #21851 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I'm gonna play around with REW again today while I wait for the truck to deliver my speakers. Yea, I took off work just for this.lol.. Anyway, again, does anyone know of I can run REW with more then 1 channel with subs?
If you didn't take off work...I would have wondered about your commitment.

I didn't even know this was available the first couple months I used REW so you're ahead of me. Anyway, to play to 2 outputs, you need to use Output and Timing Reference Output. It's so obvious I have no clue why I didn't figure that out sooner. And even searches on the net didn't make that real clear when I was searching for 2 outputs. Good luck and have fun.

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post #21852 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 12:02 PM
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the 55 is probably the best all around projector under 5K period. If I wasn't waiting for better 4K projectors, thats exactly what I'd get. They get rave reviews and my ISF buddy says they are the tits! They do 3D really well, are bright, do 2K spot on and have decent lag if you were to use it for gaming.
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+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
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If someone isn't interested in 3D I would still say that a JVC is a better choice IMO.
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I'd still take the Sony because I game competitively on mine (NHL series for cash, lats year my team was up almost 2K) I had a JVC rs40 for a few weeks as a demo and it went back to the store at a furious pace as gaming on it was pretty tough. I got a 7000 to try after that and felt although the JVC had a superior 2D image, actually quite a bit better but the panny did 3D and gaming so much better, that it made up for the 2D image IMO.

I've read the lag is the same with the new JVC's, they are still dead last in lag.

I'm personally waiting for the Sony's new version of the 600es with the 18mbps HDMI chip but my buddy at Sony says it wont be till next year.
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Yeah I should have said that I don't really game on my JVC, well occasionally I will but certainly not competitively
For 2D movies I still think the JVC throws the nicest picture, I have a two year old RS45 that I hope can hold me over for another two years. The plan is to get another two years out of my RS45 and then make the move to something that's 4K. Hopefully by then JVC will have a true 4K projector or then I'll look at going to a Sony.
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I 100% agree that for 2D, they are some of the best for sure. I can't wait to see what they do with 4K! Hopefully it will be something a little more affordable than Sony's offerings.
I'm also interested to see some other 4K stuff, DLP's etc. I could only imagine a 3 chip 4K DLP at home!
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Yeah me too, I get headaches from DLP because I can see rainbows. Same reason why I don't bother with 3D, the active glasses give me a wicked headache. Hopefully one day we'll have consumer grade projectors with passive glasses just like the commercial theaters have now.
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That is why I have the Sony....because I game quite a bit. It offered the best combination of picture and game lag in the price range I was looking for. Like you, I am waiting a little longer on 4K so the chipsets are standardized and there is some actual content to watch. Doesn't sound like 4K blu ray is any closer to being released and the 4K streaming doesn't do much for me...the early reports are that it looks very similar to 1080P streaming.
Sounds like I have some research to do lol! I don't really like 3d but that has been in local iMax and my 50 inch panasonic plasma has the glasses that dim and I always felt it was just too dark to enjoy. Honestly 2d will be heavily dominant unless someone convinces me 3d on a Sony 55ES is better at home with a 100 inch screen 8.5ft away...I do game and will be playing Destiny online. I do like the theater surround sound and it's baddass for gaming but I do have a lazy boy flanked to the right in my room that I have a 25inch Asus computer monitor on an Ergatron arm that makes for a nice little gaming station. Is the 2d picture is better on the JVC RS45 (the model you guys are comparing to right?). Dlbeck seems to have a point with Nyal's recommendation though. I do remember someone saying his picture was the best they had ever seen. Of course I will be throwing on a DIY screen too lol. But I would be happy with either I know...Blackout shades here I come!!!!

Also I decided that in trying to do an AT screen in a living room (where the is a will there is a way!) the Triple 8LP based on its size of 7.5 inches thick it will be best to stay with it. I could still try for LR 228 Noesis but I think I am going to continue on the path of slowly building. So stay with Submersives and focus on the PJ setup and ambient light containment...The more I think about it I like being able to game on my system so the 55ES may be the one...
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post #21853 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 12:20 PM
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If you didn't take off work...I would have wondered about your commitment.

I didn't even know this was available the first couple months I used REW so you're ahead of me. Anyway, to play to 2 outputs, you need to use Output and Timing Reference Output. It's so obvious I have no clue why I didn't figure that out sooner. And even searches on the net didn't make that real clear when I was searching for 2 outputs. Good luck and have fun.

Ok great.. Thanks dgage.
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post #21854 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 12:36 PM
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Yea.. I did my shopping already earlier this week. So I don't have to go through that madness.. Lol.. It's gonna hit full at the neighbor island (Big Island) by night. And Oahu where I'm at and Kauai will be tropical storms. And we have a another one behind that one too. I have all my gas for my generetors, supplies, water, home is secure and it's a good thing my home is gas. So I have gas stove. Can't really do after that but wait for it to pass. Just trying to be normal then panicking lol..
Hope all is good. Seems like a small one so you should be good. The surge is the worst part of it. Are you close to the sea? We have went though this the last few years with Irene and Sandy. When Sandy was coming, I bought like 35 gallons of gas for the generator and we never lost power. We have been looking at the whole house generators at home depot, we set up an appointment, we just have to commit to it. They are pricey, but it will be nice running my home theater the next time the power goes out for a day or a week.

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post #21855 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 01:06 PM
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Hope all is good. Seems like a small one so you should be good. The surge is the worst part of it. Are you close to the sea? We have went though this the last few years with Irene and Sandy. When Sandy was coming, I bought like 35 gallons of gas for the generator and we never lost power. We have been looking at the whole house generators at home depot, we set up an appointment, we just have to commit to it. They are pricey, but it will be nice running my home theater the next time the power goes out for a day or a week.
I'm not close to the sea or near a beach. But yea, latest is that the hurricane is weakening. But still a category 1. Our neighbor island will get hit the most. But still, hurricanes can shift and get stronger.
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post #21856 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 02:58 PM
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Whoa...(Left Field). I didn't see that coming....



I looked at the papers and such on it. Being an active design, with the full suite of software included, I can imagine it will be a VERY impressive speaker, but without it? A plain ole passive build out? Not sure how much more impressive it could be over many other designs near or slightly below its pricepoint. DSP and amplification as a full suite can do a LOT of things to make a speaker appear to be more impressive. Case and point, I took a look at its response and it does in fact have a gradual sloping mid to low section that is pretty aggressive. MUCH more-so than any other speaker's native response that I have seen. Interesting indeed, but the argue would remain, if you did that with the 215's, danley's, Cats or the like, could you subjectively get them to mimic the type of sound that so many prefer through this JBL package? With enough effort, I bet you could
I don't personally know one way or the other, but from everything I've read from designers I respect, active design does not make a speaker sound better. Easier maybe, but not better.

CHT SHO-10 x 5 powered by Denon 4311 and Lab Gruppen 10000Q amp
JTR S2 x 2
CHT 18.1 x2
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post #21857 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 05:45 PM
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It basically cost me $3000 to build all four, buy the drivers and the two amps and get the connectors and cords.


You could buy four of the new UM18-22 drivers for about $1068 shipped and a Peavey IPR2 5000 for $700 shipped and power all four it. Wire the drivers as a paralleled load so two drivers per channel as a 2ohm load and away you go. I'm sure you could build four ported cabinets for a grand total of under $2500. Hard to beat that value. If you wanted to only build two go with a iNuke 6000DSP for only $400 and two UM18-22's for $560. Probably cost you less then $1500 total to build two cabinets with amps, drivers, connectors, cables and wood.
Very nice! I would say two for now until we figure out what the future holds for us and a permanent house and dedicated room are in the picture. Then it's full on full throttle bass craziness!!! I will have to have at least 8-18's to be in the big boy club. Or four of these like yours, the ported. I wonder what the head to head of how many sealed versions of your driver would it take to equal the four ported ones?

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post #21858 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 05:57 PM
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Very nice! I would say two for now until we figure out what the future holds for us and a permanent house and dedicated room are in the picture. Then it's full on full throttle bass craziness!!! I will have to have at least 8-18's to be in the big boy club. Or four of these like yours, the ported. I wonder what the head to head of how many sealed versions of your driver would it take to equal the four ported ones?
According to the ULF thread it would take 20 SI18's to equal my four subs at 16hz, even at 12.5hz my four equal about 10 SI18's. If you aren't chasing 5hz output a ported cabinet with a 14-15hz tune is pretty hard to beat as far as output goes.
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post #21859 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 07:05 PM
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Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?
I vote #6 . Get a good front projector and a screen. You already have a pretty good sound system (used to own t8's), it is your video side that is severely lacking. TV's can't compete against front projection when it comes to immersion.
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post #21861 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 07:26 PM
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Sounds like I have some research to do lol! I don't really like 3d but that has been in local iMax and my 50 inch panasonic plasma has the glasses that dim and I always felt it was just too dark to enjoy. Honestly 2d will be heavily dominant unless someone convinces me 3d on a Sony 55ES is better at home with a 100 inch screen 8.5ft away...I do game and will be playing Destiny online. I do like the theater surround sound and it's baddass for gaming but I do have a lazy boy flanked to the right in my room that I have a 25inch Asus computer monitor on an Ergatron arm that makes for a nice little gaming station. Is the 2d picture is better on the JVC RS45 (the model you guys are comparing to right?). Dlbeck seems to have a point with Nyal's recommendation though. I do remember someone saying his picture was the best they had ever seen. Of course I will be throwing on a DIY screen too lol. But I would be happy with either I know...Blackout shades here I come!!!!

Also I decided that in trying to do an AT screen in a living room (where the is a will there is a way!) the Triple 8LP based on its size of 7.5 inches thick it will be best to stay with it. I could still try for LR 228 Noesis but I think I am going to continue on the path of slowly building. So stay with Submersives and focus on the PJ setup and ambient light containment...The more I think about it I like being able to game on my system so the 55ES may be the one...
[IMG]http://www.avsforum.com/forum/data:image/gif,GIF89a%12%00%12%00%B3%00%00%FF%FF%FF%F7%F7%EF% CC%CC%CC%BD%BE%BD%99%99%99ZYZRUR%00%00%00%FE%01%02 %00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%00%0 0%00%00%00%00!%F9%04%04%14%00%FF%00%2C%00%00%00%00 %12%00%12%00%00%04X0%C8I%2B%1D8%EB%3D%E4%00%60(%8A %85%17%0AG*%8C%40%19%7C%00J%08%C4%B1%92%26z%C76%FE %02%07%C2%89v%F0%7Dz%C3b%C8u%14%82V5%23o%A7%13%19L %BCY-%25%7D%A6l%DF%D0%F5%C7%02%85%5B%D82%90%CBT%87%D8i7 %88Y%A8%DB%EFx%8B%DE%12%01%00%3B[/IMG]

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post #21862 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 08:03 PM
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+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
I am looking at the 55ES or JVC DLAX500, I saw the 55ES for sale from an AVS forum member, I asked him why he sold it and his reply was that if you turn off the reality creation the picture turned rather soft which didn't happen with the JVC so he felt the lenses on the JVC are superior to the 55ES. He didn't like the RC on the 55ES on at all times because for certain content he felt it was too much of a good thing. That was his observations, I like sharpness so that wouldn't be (I don't think) a problem for me so even though I can get either one at cost I may still go with the 55ES and save some money.
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post #21863 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 08:26 PM
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If we can help you with projector selection and pricing, give us a call.
Yea JD helped me with my Denon 4520ci and Oppo BD103D. You guys do good for sure! I'll check in when the time comes.

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post #21864 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 08:31 PM
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I am looking at the 55ES or JVC DLAX500, I saw the 55ES for sale from an AVS forum member, I asked him why he sold it and his reply was that if you turn off the reality creation the picture turned rather soft which didn't happen with the JVC so he felt the lenses on the JVC are superior to the 55ES. He didn't like the RC on the 55ES on at all times because for certain content he felt it was too much of a good thing. That was his observations, I like sharpness so that wouldn't be (I don't think) a problem for me so even though I can get either one at cost I may still go with the 55ES and save some money.
Interesting...I will try my hardest to find a 55ES owner and a RS45 owner closest to Eugene OR :roll eyes:

I have the Oppo 103D which has the darbee video chip in it. I have read that it does it's best when big 100 inch plus PJ screens are used. It definitely gives a sense of sharpness in it's magic it does. I find I am hanging at about 40% High Definition mode.

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post #21865 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 08:56 PM
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Interesting...I will try my hardest to find a 55ES owner and a RS45 owner closest to Eugene OR :roll eyes:

I have the Oppo 103D which has the darbee video chip in it. I have read that it does it's best when big 100 inch plus PJ screens are used. It definitely gives a sense of sharpness in it's magic it does. I find I am hanging at about 40% High Definition mode.

You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
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post #21866 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 11:17 PM
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You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
Yea sounds buggy for sure...But would be curious to know if anyone else with a RS45 or similar had/has darbee issues...

BTW I am attending a wedding reception in Anacortes Washington in October. 96.4 miles to Vancouver according to map quest...

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post #21867 of 23409 Old 08-07-2014, 11:38 PM
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Yea sounds buggy for sure...But would be curious to know if anyone else with a RS45 or similar had/has darbee issues...

BTW I am attending a wedding reception in Anacortes Washington in October. 96.4 miles to Vancouver according to map quest...
I'm actually only located about 8 miles from the Blaine border crossing, so you'd only be about 70-75miles away from me. You're welcome to stop by if you feel adventurous.
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post #21868 of 23409 Old 08-08-2014, 07:25 AM
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I'll let you know tomorrow. But if you are a believer in Harman's listening research and their speaker test comparison equipment and facilities, as I am, then an interesting factoid is that these speakers were blindly compared by listening panels after each design iteration against the best speakers in the world and then improved each time based on those results. Over and over again. Utilizing some of the finest drivers on the planet.

Probably sounds like crap...
when Frank discusses the speaker in the video he talk about how you get all the high frequency information right up in the plane in between the speaker. Does that tell us something about the directivity? Is that a good thing? I didn't see or read through any technical data or polar plots but just wondering how you get that much high end detail at almost 180 degrees but not bring the early room reflections up? Must be a good answer since these guys are at the top of the field.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
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post #21869 of 23409 Old 08-08-2014, 07:53 AM
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You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
I've been reading up on the JVC 4910 thread as that's what I'm going with in about 2-3 months along with a Falcon screen. From what I've read, there are a few people who have had HDMI handshake problems while having the Darbee in the chain with this particular model. Not sure about the RS-45 though. Taking the Darbee out of the chain seems to "solve" the issue for most. I can't recall anyone having handshake issues while using a 103D/105D with Darbee enabled.

Also, how do you like your Falcon Screen? I'm having a tough time deciding between the scope and 16:9..
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post #21870 of 23409 Old 08-08-2014, 07:54 AM
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when Frank discusses the speaker in the video he talk about how you get all the high frequency information right up in the plane in between the speaker. Does that tell us something about the directivity? Is that a good thing? I didn't see or read through any technical data or polar plots but just wondering how you get that much high end detail at almost 180 degrees but not bring the early room reflections up? Must be a good answer since these guys are at the top of the field.
It does bring the early reflections up. Despite common dogma, research suggests that the practice of attenuating early reflections is, at best, contentious.

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