Official JTR speaker thread - Page 729 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #21841 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Whoa...(Left Field). I didn't see that coming....



I looked at the papers and such on it. Being an active design, with the full suite of software included, I can imagine it will be a VERY impressive speaker, but without it? A plain ole passive build out? Not sure how much more impressive it could be over many other designs near or slightly below its pricepoint. DSP and amplification as a full suite can do a LOT of things to make a speaker appear to be more impressive. Case and point, I took a look at its response and it does in fact have a gradual sloping mid to low section that is pretty aggressive. MUCH more-so than any other speaker's native response that I have seen. Interesting indeed, but the argue would remain, if you did that with the 215's, danley's, Cats or the like, could you subjectively get them to mimic the type of sound that so many prefer through this JBL package? With enough effort, I bet you could
I don't personally know one way or the other, but from everything I've read from designers I respect, active design does not make a speaker sound better. Easier maybe, but not better.
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post #21842 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 05:45 PM
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It basically cost me $3000 to build all four, buy the drivers and the two amps and get the connectors and cords.


You could buy four of the new UM18-22 drivers for about $1068 shipped and a Peavey IPR2 5000 for $700 shipped and power all four it. Wire the drivers as a paralleled load so two drivers per channel as a 2ohm load and away you go. I'm sure you could build four ported cabinets for a grand total of under $2500. Hard to beat that value. If you wanted to only build two go with a iNuke 6000DSP for only $400 and two UM18-22's for $560. Probably cost you less then $1500 total to build two cabinets with amps, drivers, connectors, cables and wood.
Very nice! I would say two for now until we figure out what the future holds for us and a permanent house and dedicated room are in the picture. Then it's full on full throttle bass craziness!!! I will have to have at least 8-18's to be in the big boy club. Or four of these like yours, the ported. I wonder what the head to head of how many sealed versions of your driver would it take to equal the four ported ones?

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post #21843 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Very nice! I would say two for now until we figure out what the future holds for us and a permanent house and dedicated room are in the picture. Then it's full on full throttle bass craziness!!! I will have to have at least 8-18's to be in the big boy club. Or four of these like yours, the ported. I wonder what the head to head of how many sealed versions of your driver would it take to equal the four ported ones?
According to the ULF thread it would take 20 SI18's to equal my four subs at 16hz, even at 12.5hz my four equal about 10 SI18's. If you aren't chasing 5hz output a ported cabinet with a 14-15hz tune is pretty hard to beat as far as output goes.
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post #21844 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 07:05 PM
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Hey JTR fanboys...looking for any or all of your input. I have been thinking the last couple days what the next upgrade for me would be in my system. Now I am restricted a bit by finances in the fact that there are other things in life that are more important than 10k worth of speakers at this point for me But I could swing a little bit after the turn of the year. I know not conventional JTR thread thinking and could be classified as blasphemy around here. I currently have Triple 8 LCR, two Seaton Submersives, two Volt 10 surrounds, Denon 4520ci AVR, Mac Mini and the Open DRC-AN mini dsp unit. Not a bad little conservative system...Basically I could swing around the cost of one 212 Noesis so there is the ballpark. So I was thinking...

1. A single 212 LP Noesis (or custom like N8's) for a center channel upgrade. Mark Seaton told me once the most import HT speakers are the center channel and the subs due the fact of how much activity and content they are responsible for. He said about 80% of movie content is from the center channel alone. So I think a single 212 upgrade there would provide quite a jump in movie experience. Much dialogue and other to be had there. And who is to say I can't be unconventional and listen to music out of just the center??? lol...

2. LCR 228 Noesis. I could get a little cash most likely from my Triple 8's and swing a sweet set of 228's and would provide a nice matched front set. Many of you say they are not far behind the 212 for music and almost the same for movies. I would also get the classic 2 channel music benefits from this orientation. I, like Carp, am a firm beleiver in 2 channel. I feel music is vastly superior in this listening preset. I like the dolby mult ch preset surround effect but I feel instruments "get lost" or are "blanketed" sounding.

3. Keep Triple 8 LCR and upgrade to a set of Single 8 surrounds. I would now be JTR 5 channel and they would be a serious boost over the Volt 10's. This is based soley on all of the comment you guys make. But those comments hold serious value and weight.

4. A couple DIY 18 inch subs with an pro amp like the inuke. Can never have too much woofage right? I am all about bass but my gut says I can get better performance with money spent elsewhere as I am flat to 8hz in my room and have had a 111db down to 8hz on a sweep once. I was scared to try any higher but that was on a single 15 amp line and no breaker pop so that tells me there is more. Also I operate on limited power so perhaps more woofage would not be smart...

5. Upgraded TV. I sit 9 ft from my beautiful Panasonic plasma (dying breed). It looks absolutely great with the Oppo and darbee processing (HD 42%) but I feel a 65 inch panel would provide a serious jump in viewing experience. The problem here is plasmas are gone and edgelit LCD's are bad for blacks and the letterbox bars are terrible in a dark room.

More idea's to come but what do you think?
I vote #6 . Get a good front projector and a screen. You already have a pretty good sound system (used to own t8's), it is your video side that is severely lacking. TV's can't compete against front projection when it comes to immersion.
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post #21845 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 07:05 PM
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post #21846 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Sounds like I have some research to do lol! I don't really like 3d but that has been in local iMax and my 50 inch panasonic plasma has the glasses that dim and I always felt it was just too dark to enjoy. Honestly 2d will be heavily dominant unless someone convinces me 3d on a Sony 55ES is better at home with a 100 inch screen 8.5ft away...I do game and will be playing Destiny online. I do like the theater surround sound and it's baddass for gaming but I do have a lazy boy flanked to the right in my room that I have a 25inch Asus computer monitor on an Ergatron arm that makes for a nice little gaming station. Is the 2d picture is better on the JVC RS45 (the model you guys are comparing to right?). Dlbeck seems to have a point with Nyal's recommendation though. I do remember someone saying his picture was the best they had ever seen. Of course I will be throwing on a DIY screen too lol. But I would be happy with either I know...Blackout shades here I come!!!!

Also I decided that in trying to do an AT screen in a living room (where the is a will there is a way!) the Triple 8LP based on its size of 7.5 inches thick it will be best to stay with it. I could still try for LR 228 Noesis but I think I am going to continue on the path of slowly building. So stay with Submersives and focus on the PJ setup and ambient light containment...The more I think about it I like being able to game on my system so the 55ES may be the one...
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post #21847 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 08:03 PM
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+1 - the reason I went with the 55ES is after recommendations from both Jeff Meier and Nyal Mellor. Those are the guys that see hundreds of projectors every year.
I am looking at the 55ES or JVC DLAX500, I saw the 55ES for sale from an AVS forum member, I asked him why he sold it and his reply was that if you turn off the reality creation the picture turned rather soft which didn't happen with the JVC so he felt the lenses on the JVC are superior to the 55ES. He didn't like the RC on the 55ES on at all times because for certain content he felt it was too much of a good thing. That was his observations, I like sharpness so that wouldn't be (I don't think) a problem for me so even though I can get either one at cost I may still go with the 55ES and save some money.
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post #21848 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 08:26 PM
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If we can help you with projector selection and pricing, give us a call.
Yea JD helped me with my Denon 4520ci and Oppo BD103D. You guys do good for sure! I'll check in when the time comes.

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post #21849 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 08:31 PM
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I am looking at the 55ES or JVC DLAX500, I saw the 55ES for sale from an AVS forum member, I asked him why he sold it and his reply was that if you turn off the reality creation the picture turned rather soft which didn't happen with the JVC so he felt the lenses on the JVC are superior to the 55ES. He didn't like the RC on the 55ES on at all times because for certain content he felt it was too much of a good thing. That was his observations, I like sharpness so that wouldn't be (I don't think) a problem for me so even though I can get either one at cost I may still go with the 55ES and save some money.
Interesting...I will try my hardest to find a 55ES owner and a RS45 owner closest to Eugene OR :roll eyes:

I have the Oppo 103D which has the darbee video chip in it. I have read that it does it's best when big 100 inch plus PJ screens are used. It definitely gives a sense of sharpness in it's magic it does. I find I am hanging at about 40% High Definition mode.

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post #21850 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 08:56 PM
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Interesting...I will try my hardest to find a 55ES owner and a RS45 owner closest to Eugene OR :roll eyes:

I have the Oppo 103D which has the darbee video chip in it. I have read that it does it's best when big 100 inch plus PJ screens are used. It definitely gives a sense of sharpness in it's magic it does. I find I am hanging at about 40% High Definition mode.

You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
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post #21851 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 11:17 PM
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You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
Yea sounds buggy for sure...But would be curious to know if anyone else with a RS45 or similar had/has darbee issues...

BTW I am attending a wedding reception in Anacortes Washington in October. 96.4 miles to Vancouver according to map quest...

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post #21852 of 31063 Old 08-07-2014, 11:38 PM
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Yea sounds buggy for sure...But would be curious to know if anyone else with a RS45 or similar had/has darbee issues...

BTW I am attending a wedding reception in Anacortes Washington in October. 96.4 miles to Vancouver according to map quest...
I'm actually only located about 8 miles from the Blaine border crossing, so you'd only be about 70-75miles away from me. You're welcome to stop by if you feel adventurous.
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post #21853 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 07:25 AM
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I'll let you know tomorrow. But if you are a believer in Harman's listening research and their speaker test comparison equipment and facilities, as I am, then an interesting factoid is that these speakers were blindly compared by listening panels after each design iteration against the best speakers in the world and then improved each time based on those results. Over and over again. Utilizing some of the finest drivers on the planet.

Probably sounds like crap...
when Frank discusses the speaker in the video he talk about how you get all the high frequency information right up in the plane in between the speaker. Does that tell us something about the directivity? Is that a good thing? I didn't see or read through any technical data or polar plots but just wondering how you get that much high end detail at almost 180 degrees but not bring the early room reflections up? Must be a good answer since these guys are at the top of the field.

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post #21854 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 07:53 AM
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You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
I've been reading up on the JVC 4910 thread as that's what I'm going with in about 2-3 months along with a Falcon screen. From what I've read, there are a few people who have had HDMI handshake problems while having the Darbee in the chain with this particular model. Not sure about the RS-45 though. Taking the Darbee out of the chain seems to "solve" the issue for most. I can't recall anyone having handshake issues while using a 103D/105D with Darbee enabled.

Also, how do you like your Falcon Screen? I'm having a tough time deciding between the scope and 16:9..
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post #21855 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 07:54 AM
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when Frank discusses the speaker in the video he talk about how you get all the high frequency information right up in the plane in between the speaker. Does that tell us something about the directivity? Is that a good thing? I didn't see or read through any technical data or polar plots but just wondering how you get that much high end detail at almost 180 degrees but not bring the early room reflections up? Must be a good answer since these guys are at the top of the field.
It does bring the early reflections up. Despite common dogma, research suggests that the practice of attenuating early reflections is, at best, contentious.

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post #21856 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 07:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
You know I had a Oppo 103D hooked up to my RS45 and it caused a really weird issue, with the Darbee set to on the image would flicker like crazy! and I also was able to have a darbee table in my signal chain and it worked good at first but then after a day or two I started to have handshake issues and then it would flicker too. I haven't really done much research to see if it's happened to anyone else or what the cause was.
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Yea sounds buggy for sure...But would be curious to know if anyone else with a RS45 or similar had/has darbee issues...

BTW I am attending a wedding reception in Anacortes Washington in October. 96.4 miles to Vancouver according to map quest...
I used a stand alone Darbee with an RS45 for a year and a half, no issues. You can't run a long HDMI cable off of the Darbee. Just place the Darbee near the projector, so that the long HDMI cable goes to the Darbee and the HDMI cable coming off the Darbee is short. Mine sat on top of the JVC. It now sits on top of my Sony VW600ES.

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post #21857 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 09:30 AM
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That's your subconscious breaking through....

Your mind has been unable to ignore what these speakers represent. I get it .
You're the doctor ...

Now, about that review

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post #21858 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 09:31 AM
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Also, how do you like your Falcon Screen? I'm having a tough time deciding between the scope and 16:9..
I absolutely love my Falcon screen, my only regret was not going with a 2.35:1 scope screen to start with as now I'm considering selling my 16:9 screen to go to a scope screen!...lol
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post #21859 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 10:51 AM
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^^JTR's packing is 2nd to none IME.
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post #21860 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 10:59 AM
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^^JTR's packing is 2nd to none IME.
Well, how did it go? We want details !!



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I absolutely love my Falcon screen, my only regret was not going with a 2.35:1 scope screen to start with as now I'm considering selling my 16:9 screen to go to a scope screen!…lol
I was going to buy a used 16X9 screen and the more I chatted with some guys around here, the more I wanted a scope screen. I think it was Jonathan that sealed the deal for me to go scope. We both have the Panasonic PTAE8000U. I got the Carada Criterion 112" diag brilliant white. Still sitting in the box, next to my projector. I have to finish painting my room this weekend and then the screen is going up. Yehaw.
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post #21861 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 11:10 AM
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^^JTR's packing is 2nd to none IME.
Sure and Nordstrom has excellent customer service ... now about those JBL's ...
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post #21862 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 11:20 AM
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Shortly
My next upgrade as well .

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post #21864 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 12:33 PM
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My next upgrade as well .
Have you heard them yet?
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post #21865 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Have you heard them yet?
I haven't, but per the Harman Spin-o-rama plots my current speakers measure very similarly, so I would expect the M2s to sound similar, albeit with much more dynamic range and bass extension.

Edit: Here are the plots to illustrate my point

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603

Last edited by SyntheticShrimp; 08-08-2014 at 01:00 PM.
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post #21866 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SyntheticShrimp View Post
I haven't, but per the Harman Spin-o-rama plots my current speakers measure very similarly, so I would expect the M2s to sound similar, albeit with much more dynamic range and bass extension.
Just read some reviews on your Revels. If the reviews are accurate then I think your expectations will be met.

That accurate, crazy good sound that can come out of top notch bookshelves is one of the qualities I lost since I moved to high dynamic, high output speakers. It's the primary thing that has kept me continually speaker searching. Each new speaker I get in the room I convince myself it's either good enough in that regard, or a tradeoff I'm willing to make for the dynamics, output, and power handling. But inevitably that compromise slowly eats away at me like a cancer.

Based on my experience today I can confidently say that the current listening impressions around the Web on the M2 are not hype as far as I'm concerned. I think you'll be rewarded with exactly what you expect after reading and then sitting down in front of them.
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post #21867 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 01:32 PM
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I absolutely love my Falcon screen, my only regret was not going with a 2.35:1 scope screen to start with as now I'm considering selling my 16:9 screen to go to a scope screen!...lol
Thanks for your thoughts... It seems the general consensus is that you cannot go wrong with a scope screen if used for HT. Since I've already decided on the JVC, gaming is pretty much out due to the lag.. so that makes my decision a little easier.
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post #21868 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 01:33 PM
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I just logged on to AVS and seen the "Bears" blu ray review front and center, clicked on it and some how after 10 minutes I clicked buy with my Amazon Prime account on 7 nature documentary Blu Rays...What the just happened?

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post #21869 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 01:34 PM
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Just a quick question...Where is the best place to look for DIY AT screen material?

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post #21870 of 31063 Old 08-08-2014, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Just read some reviews on your Revels. If the reviews are accurate then I think your expectations will be met.

That accurate, crazy good sound that can come out of top notch bookshelves is one of the qualities I lost since I moved to high dynamic, high output speakers. It's the primary thing that has kept me continually speaker searching. Each new speaker I get in the room I convince myself it's either good enough in that regard, or a tradeoff I'm willing to make for the dynamics, output, and power handling. But inevitably that compromise slowly eats away at me like a cancer.

Based on my experience today I can confidently say that the current listening impressions around the Web on the M2 are not hype as far as I'm concerned. I think you'll be rewarded with exactly what you expect after reading and then sitting down in front of them.
I'm experiencing that nagging doubt with the small high end bookshelves as well. You wonder what you are missing out on in terms of output and dynamics. That's the appeal of the M2. There are no tradeoffs to speak of.

Very interested to hear more of your impressions.

Theater room: Sony VPL HW30ES, DIY 100" screen with Seymour Centerstage XD, 5 Revel M105, 2 JBL Studio 210, 4 SVS SB12-NSD, Anthem MRX-300
Living room: Panasonic TC-P60VT60, 3 KEF LS50, Pioneer SW-8, Marantz NR1603
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