Official JTR speaker thread - Page 736 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #22051 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 05:08 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
And Coach had to go and do it. As good as the 215s sound, they really are a little big for his room.

FS: JTR 215RT and 215RM
dgage is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22052 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 05:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,089
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
First, I'll agree that your subs are not going to keep up with any of the JTRs. To save money, you might want to look at some DIY subs for bass.

Regarding the JTR speaker recommendations, I PERSONALLY can only recommend the JTR 215s, either RM or RT, as I feel all of the others are lacking in the midbass (haven't heard 228). Now if you plan to add Mid Bass Modules (MBMs), then any of the JTRs would work. I really do like the upper range of the 212, even more than the 215, but both are very good and articulate. Coach and I have A/B'd the 212 against the 215 and even though they have the same coaxial compression driver, the 215 is voiced a little different, a little more laid back than the 212. I find the midrange on the 212 and 215 to be about the same, which means very good. My favorite THEATER speaker in the JTR lineup is the 215RM, simply an amazing speaker but it is LARGE. 215RT is not large, its a refrigerator. Again, these are my OPINIONs.

LOL.... you make it sound like anything other then 215's sound like Bose when it comes to mid bass....LOL
jbrown15 is online now  
post #22053 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 05:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,305
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked: 514
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
I should point out that my room is acoustically treated pretty well. I have a total of 10 GIK 244 Bass Traps...6 in the front to handle first reflections. 4 in the back with the scatter plate option installed. 4 GIK Soffit bass traps, 2 in each rear corner. 2 GIK Tri traps...1 in each front corner and 4 GIK gridfusor in the middle back of the room.


Just wanted to point that out and I do appreciate the input I've received thus far.


I will also say that I do have plans to get 2 S2's in the future....I've always wanted to go that route but as I said August isn't cheap.


I'll move the SVS's to my bedroom system.
My room is treated with ATS. In reality, no matter what you do, it will be awesome! I'm actually enjoying my 215's right now!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #22054 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
And Coach had to go and do it. As good as the 215s sound, they really are a little big for his room.

FS: JTR 215RT and 215RM
I just saw that and would take them off his hands if they weren't too large for my space as well..which is why I bought the 212s several months back. Sounds like he must have enjoyed the other speakers both of you were auditioning. Somebody is going to get a heck a deal from a heck of guy
Frohlich is offline  
post #22055 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,089
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
And Coach had to go and do it. As good as the 215s sound, they really are a little big for his room.

FS: JTR 215RT and 215RM

What is coach replacing them with? Cat12's?
jbrown15 is online now  
post #22056 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Nabs17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wesley Chapel, FL
Posts: 1,111
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 485 Post(s)
Liked: 244
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
And Coach had to go and do it. As good as the 215s sound, they really are a little big for his room.

FS: JTR 215RT and 215RM
Yeah I saw that. Is this really a case of too big for his room...is it layout? I can't imagine his room is smaller than mine.

Nabs17
Nabs17 is offline  
post #22057 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
What is coach replacing them with? Cat12's?
Yes. If I can move my 215's, I will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
Yeah I saw that. Is this really a case of too big for his room...is it layout? I can't imagine his room is smaller than mine.
They are bigger than I want in my room. Dgage can confirm this, but my screen wall is right when you walk in and they are almost in the way of when you walk in.
COACH2369 is offline  
post #22058 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
What is coach replacing them with? Cat12's?
That is my understanding from PMing with him. To be honest, I have always been intruiged by the cat12s myself but just never had a chance to audition them. Also was never sure if built in amps were for me...plus I loved every JTR I have owned so I have stuck with the brand.

Edit: looks like Coach just responded so now my post is a duplicate...sorry

Last edited by Frohlich; 08-13-2014 at 06:23 PM.
Frohlich is offline  
post #22059 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
N8DOGG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 6,305
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 525 Post(s)
Liked: 514
I've heard the Cat12's a few times. They are great speakers, anyone would be happy with them!

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

N8DOGG is offline  
post #22060 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
COACH2369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,947
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 248 Post(s)
Liked: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
What is coach replacing them with? Cat12's?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
That is my understanding from PMing with him. To be honest, I have always been intruiged by the cat12s myself but just never had a chance to audition them. Also was never sure if build in amps was for me...plus I loved every JTR I have owned so I have stuck with the brand.

Edit: looks like Coach just responded so now my post is a duplicate...sorry
No worries. It has consumed me more than it should. Lol. We(Dgage)and I have done some extensive A/B/C comparing between the 212, 215RM and the Cat12. Great thing about this hobby is, we all have different tastes in sound and their are plenty of options. Both brands are great.
COACH2369 is offline  
post #22061 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
raynist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Considering that you don't plan on using these for music, just 95% movies and the rest video games and tv I think you're almost silly to spend the extra money on anything other then the 212HT's. IMHO you're better off getting three 212HT's and at the same time buy two Cap 2400's. Sorry to say but there's no way your subs are going to keep up with your JTR speakers.
If you are 100% movies and games I would go for the 228's and take the $6000k you save over buying 215's and buy some awesome subs.

They guys are right, I have had those subs and they will not be able to keep up with any of the JTR speakers.
raynist is offline  
post #22062 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:41 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
LOL.... you make it sound like anything other then 215's sound like Bose when it comes to mid bass....LOL
When you put it like that...they're not that bad. But for home theater, at the cost of the JTRs, even the 228HTs, I just don't think there is enough midbass to truly recreate scenes like the Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene. Obviously many disagree with me and I am OK with that. I hope people choose whatever speaker makes them happy. But this is a forum and I have an informed opinion now that I didn't when I first bought the JTR 212s, so I feel it is just as applicable as those that love every single JTR speaker. And since this is the AV Science forum, I would be glad to share some of my measurements where the left 212 has a dip at 100Hz and no matter how much boost I give it with the NanoAVR, I can't compensate for it. So there, opinion backed by science.
dgage is offline  
post #22063 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 06:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Frohlich's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,652
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 623 Post(s)
Liked: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
When you put it like that...they're not that bad. But for home theater, at the cost of the JTRs, even the 228HTs, I just don't think there is enough midbass to truly recreate scenes like the Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene. Obviously many disagree with me and I am OK with that. I hope people choose whatever speaker makes them happy. But this is a forum and I have an informed opinion now that I didn't when I first bought the JTR 212s, so I feel it is just as applicable as those that love every single JTR speaker. And since this is the AV Science forum, I would be glad to share some of my measurements where the left 212 has a dip at 100Hz and no matter how much boost I give it with the NanoAVR, I can't compensate for it. So there, opinion backed by science.
You and coach did it the right way. You had the 212s, 215s and Seatons on hand and have real world experience with all the speakers in the same room. Hard to argue with your process and your opinions. On a side note, have you considered crossing your AVR at 100HZ to avoid the dip all together? THat is what I do with my 212s and S2s and loved the results ...think I stole the idea from Carp last year
Frohlich is offline  
post #22064 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 07:04 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
Yeah I saw that. Is this really a case of too big for his room...is it layout? I can't imagine his room is smaller than mine.
His listening position is really close to the front line of speakers. The 215RT/RM have a horn that is a little more directional so they provide a large soundstage but it is still somewhat of a directional soundstage that benefits from the seating being a few feet further back than Coach's room allows. Actually, perched on the back row of seats in Coach's room, the 215s sound really sweet. Up at the front row, the Cats seem to have the wider soundstage that works better.

Regarding sound quality, with a rough calibration I liked the 215s just a little better than the Cat12s, mainly with music. But for theater, it really felt like Coke vs Pepsi that was already mentioned. Now, that was with a rough calibration as I only had a couple of hours to setup the 212, 215, and Cat12s. With that setup the 215 and Cats were in the same league and I really couldn't pick a favorite and neither could Coach. Coach had his calibrator out today to optimize the Cats and I guess it was good enough to put the Cat12s over the top. Both of them are truly great speakers and I would be happy with either, provided my room was big enough for the 215s.
dgage is offline  
post #22065 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 07:17 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
You and coach did it the right way. You had the 212s, 215s and Seatons on hand and have real world experience with all the speakers in the same room. Hard to argue with your process and your opinions. On a side note, have you considered crossing your AVR at 100HZ to avoid the dip all together? THat is what I do with my 212s and S2s and loved the results ...think I stole the idea from Carp last year
Thanks Frohlich. I've had my front pair of LMS5400s crossed over as high as 175Hz but the LMS5400s start dropping naturally at 150Hz which should be high enough. I really didn't have enough time to dial them in and see if they were ultimately what I was looking for. I will work on that again later but I've been preoccupied with starting a business. My speakers are definitely on the to do list but further down now.
dgage is offline  
post #22066 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 07:53 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 7,967
Mentioned: 182 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1604 Post(s)
Liked: 1431
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
When you put it like that...they're not that bad. But for home theater, at the cost of the JTRs, even the 228HTs, I just don't think there is enough midbass to truly recreate scenes like the Book of Eli Gatling Gun scene. Obviously many disagree with me and I am OK with that. I hope people choose whatever speaker makes them happy. But this is a forum and I have an informed opinion now that I didn't when I first bought the JTR 212s, so I feel it is just as applicable as those that love every single JTR speaker. And since this is the AV Science forum, I would be glad to share some of my measurements where the left 212 has a dip at 100Hz and no matter how much boost I give it with the NanoAVR, I can't compensate for it. So there, opinion backed by science.

I propose your room is making a 100hz dip in the frequency response on the 212HT!?!? I don't think that is something I've seen in various other 212HT frequency response plots.
smbsocal likes this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
post #22067 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 08:05 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I propose your room is making a 100hz dip in the frequency response on the 212HT!?!? I don't think that is something I've seen in various other 212HT frequency response plots.
I'll try to do some measurements this weekend and check the signal chain to make sure there aren't any weird settings but I've seen it at my house as well as Coach's. And in the A/B/Cing Coach and I did, the 212 was definitely light in the midbass compared to the 215RM and Cat12. Much bigger difference than I would expect between a pair of 12s and a pair of 15s. I'll be glad to share the measurements from each of my 212HT-LPs as soon as I get a chance.
dgage is offline  
post #22068 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 08:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,089
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
No worries. It has consumed me more than it should. Lol. We(Dgage)and I have done some extensive A/B/C comparing between the 212, 215RM and the Cat12. Great thing about this hobby is, we all have different tastes in sound and their are plenty of options. Both brands are great.
Over the last year I've become really interested in the Cat12's but it would be a huge pain in the A$$ to get RCA cables to the front of my room to hook up to them. And honestly being located in Canada has really killed the idea of owning them, at $3795ea plus shipping buying three would easily cost me over 14 grand after shipping, taxes and the US/Can exchange rate. My wife would literally cut my B@LL's off if she found out I spend that much on three speakers!....lol
jbrown15 is online now  
post #22069 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 08:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,279
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1417 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
They are definitely already in another league...price league.

Even if 1 or 10 fellow AVS'ers tag along and end up giving you the validation needed to sway your opinion, you still would be missing approval from...your room.

I've been feeling a bit jaded over the past few months listening to a lot of different speakers all in different spaces. I just don't see how anyone can definitively say that speaker x is better than speaker y, especially when you bring said speaker in a different acoustical environment it changes EVERYTHING...

So this repeat performance (in their space) sounds like it's going to be a lock. Even if you were to bring your 212's to compare them directly, it would be a totally different listening environment and will inevitably make your 212's sound different (better? / worse?) that what may be used to.

The M2's were designed to have one of the flattest FR curves most people have ever seen! How does that translate in the room you are demoing them in?

Sounds like you want to make a big money decision based on a (most likely) better optimized space for those particular speakers and some subjective opinions from other enthusiasts that you (and I myself) respect and trust. I mean, I understand if you want to make a buying decision on those points alone and would rather keep the demo casual, but man... Wouldn't you like to objectively see how the time and frequency domains are effecting your subjective impressions?

You should let your host know that you are (at least) bringing your Omnimic to run some sweeps and do some testing. Unless a $20K decision just isn't worth the hassle.

I'd just hate to see their decay measure similar to this:


Only to find that the M2's don't sound incredible in your room because your decay measures closer to this:


Those are extreme examples, but I'm sure you get my drift.

Would be cool if you could get detailed measurements at their shop, then take the time to try to replicate the FR and waterfall in your room...Maybe it could be an improvement or really close to what you were hearing with the M2's? In theory?

Just trying to keep part of your kids college fund intact.
Your points are very, very, very well taken and well written. I appreciate the response and it's intent immensely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjnbB_gPPAc#t=24

Prior to hearing the M2's I would have been "+10" about your post and the whole issue because, quite frankly, over the past couple of years of tracking down and listening to the top dog high output designs in the JTR/Seaton price range, I have not heard any design that was head and shoulders above any of the others. Different rooms definitely changed the character of speakers to a degree, but my overall impressions have always been consistent across very different rooms. The overall strength of a design has always shown through, even if it didn't have exactly the same sonic character from room to room. I've never thought my 212's sounded bad, nor have I ever heard them elevate their performance into another class altogether - in any room. In other words, although the 212 is a great speaker and I still love it regardless of some nits I have with it, I have never, in any room, thought to myself that it might actually be the "perfect" speaker, or thought that it ever truly realistically reproduced piano keystrokes, or had a special clarity, or that it exactly and realistically reproduced vocals so convincingly that the artist was in the room. Now I'm not beating on my 212's, because I didnt experience that with any of the others either. Seaton, JTR, Danley. I could be happy with any one of them. They're all great speakers and although different, similar in overall SQ IMO.

But the differences I heard with the M2 were not on the same level as say differences in the 212's from room to room, or the differences between the Seatons or the JTR's. It was more fundamental than that. Could it be I've simply never heard all the other speakers in the right room? Or properly setup? Could be I suppose. But I can tell you the room in which I listened to the M2's was not that room either.

Two walls were glass. There is a huge desk in the fashion of a control board in front of the speakers, and a computer monitor blocking part of the horn. No carpet - all hardwood floors. Yea, there were some 1st reflection and corner panels but no bass traps. This was NOT some high end optimized listening room at a boutique showroom. This was in a warehouse and was simply a windowed office cubicle that probably housed a secretary before they put the speakers in there. Seriously. One thing I'm not concerned about is whether I can match the acoustics of that space. If anything it was an acoustic disaster. When I walked into the room my first thought was I can't believe they're demoing speakers of this price range in a room like this!

So I know you're jaded, but have you considered the fact that it's possible out of all the speakers you've listened to that you simply haven't heard something like the M2? Just looking at the FR suggests there is definitely something different from the other speakers. And there's an entirely unique compression driver design from anything your ears have ever heard. After all, we've all been running in the same basic circle of speakers and designs. I'm comfortable in saying that I've likely heard 95%(or some high percentage) of all the speakers you've heard in the past couple of years. I will simply suggest that the M2 might just be different enough from those designs to explain what I heard as more than just being in a great room - which it clearly wasn't. Believe me, I am more than willing to accept the fact I could be deluding myself, but there is still the other side of the coin.

I'm no acoustic newbee, nor an expert, but I know enough to see that the room had enough disasters to make me cringe. But if that's the room I have to replicate it should be relatively easy. Rip my carpets up, place a big coffee table and large family photo frames in front of the horns, and a few 2" wall panels and I'm good to go . But I have yet to put a speaker in my room that I thought sounded good in another room and then after placing in my room I felt like I just got stuck with a different speaker. Might need a little tuning or adjusting, but fundamentally the same speaker. So I'm not overly concerned here about that, but I also don't discount the possibility that it could happen.

No, I'm mostly worried that I succumbed to expectation bias or a placebo effect. Having only listened one time my mind is worried about these things. If anything I'll be able to improve the acoustics. One or two other people looking at me saying, "dude, you're not hearing things" would actually make me feel better. Not just the sales guy shaking his head affirmatively and saying, "yep, everyone's been saying that". If they don't hear what I'm hearing then I have to decide if it's just a preference thing or I'm doing the $10,000 speaker wire thing. Or the, "I just upgraded my 75 watt amp to 100 watts and they're like new speakers!" thing.

The measurement suggestion is great and I will definitely do that. I suppose if I bring them home and they sound like crap in my room I could finally give my wife that coffee table she's always wanted and let her decorate the space .

Fact is I never thought I would consider a speaker in this price range and it's causing me to do more than my typical impulse buy. You're opening line suggests you're thinking these are simply overpriced retreads, and that is a healthy attitude. But my initial listening impressions have me going, "dude, I'm tellin' you, these might be different...."
popalock, asoofi1 and Gorilla83 like this.

Last edited by Gooddoc; 08-13-2014 at 08:41 PM.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #22070 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 08:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,089
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked: 1700
@Gooddoc , would you just be buying the M2 speakers or would you also get the amps that go along with them?
jbrown15 is online now  
post #22071 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
NWCgrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 2,112
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 649 Post(s)
Liked: 536
The package on the professional sound company's website that was listed previously looks pretty dam potent. Those Crown amps are freakin monsters.

___________________________________________
NWCgrad's Mostly DIY Basement HT - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/15-gen...sement-ht.html
NWCgrad's 10” coaxial collaborative design - http://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...ve-design.html
NWCgrad is offline  
post #22072 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,738
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 314
Just incase you missed my post. I was playing the S8's with the 4 S2's. Not on their own. It could just be a good combo that made it sound that good to me. That's why I said 5 or 7 of these with a cap or two would be awesome. I really was impress with them though. Didn't even get to the 215's yet..lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I have read the same thing and I wasn't as enamored with the S8s as everyone else when I tried them temporarily as mains. Compared to the 212, they might as well be Polk speakers. Sorry if that is harsh but they are nice but in my opinion not as nice as some are saying. When I previously brought up my concerns, others then started saying "for what they are". I think the S8 is a fine surround speaker but I would never use it as a main speaker. And I should say that my issue with the S8 are more towards the sonic signature than to their dynamic or loudness capabilities, which I would say are definitely considerable.

I'm not bad mouthing the S8 as I have 4 for surround duty and can't think of any earthly reason for me to change...I'll even likely add a couple for Atmos however far in the future. I just want to give another viewpoint that the S8 isn't a Noesis or anything.

Speakers are a truly personal choice and we each have different characterstics we like. I personally am excited that Rhed is as impressed as he is. I think that is truly awesome and I'm happy for him. I don't want anyone thinking I am saying Rhed's opinion is wrong...I just know Rhed and I aren't the same.

David

EDIT: And since I just saw Popalocks post about rooms affecting speakers, I have listened to the S8 in my untreated room as well as Coach's treated room. My opinion of the S8s didn't change the second time I heard them as mains in Coach's room. They weren't EQ'd as mains in either case, but then again, it sounds like Rhed just plugged them in and started listening. I really enjoyed the 212s when I just hooked them up and started listening. Of course any speaker is likely much better when EQd to address room interactions.
rhed is online now  
post #22073 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:34 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Just incase you missed my post. I was playing the S8's with the 4 S2's. Not on their own. It could just be a good combo that made it sound that good to me. That's why I said 5 or 7 of these with a cap or two would be awesome. I really was impress with them though. Didn't even get to the 215's yet..lol
I'm glad you are enjoying them so much...but dammit, you have 215s...what the hell are you waiting for. And regarding the S8s, I was also running them with subs. I just don't like the tonal qualities of the S8 as much as the Noesis, for me its like NIGHT and DAY. Maybe I just expected more after hearing some people gush about them in one of the GTGs. If we all liked the same thing, there wouldn't be so many speaker companies.
dgage is offline  
post #22074 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lbrown105's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,274
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Liked: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I propose your room is making a 100hz dip in the frequency response on the 212HT!?!? I don't think that is something I've seen in various other 212HT frequency response plots.
Unless the speaker is broken it is certainly the room. My 212HT L&R measured at the MLP with no subs and no eq give a huge increase starting at 150hz. The center has a dip around 80 but the huge jump in midbass (I hate that non descript term) from 150hz down to about 90hz for all three. I almost have to laugh when I keep reading about this midbass issue for the 212. In pure output down to 80 hz the 212HT has more than the 215! Lower than that yes the 215 takes over. If matched with subs designed to cross between 80-100hz I don't see the issue. No matter how we define midbass I think we would agree it is in the modal region, so Archea is likely correct about the room.


In my system the output from 20hz-150hz is over 130dB at the MLP which is 13 ft from the LCR's!.


Here is the L&R 212HT no subs no eq. The the last FR is with the OS's integrated and turned down for movie (more flat). Every room will be different.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	noesis 212ht left 5.30.14.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	58.5 KB
ID:	211201   Click image for larger version

Name:	noesis 212ht raw response 5.30.14.jpg
Views:	65
Size:	57.7 KB
ID:	211209   Click image for larger version

Name:	movie house curve 5.26.14.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	36.3 KB
ID:	211217  
countryWV likes this.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
lbrown105 is offline  
post #22075 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,738
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Liked: 314
I bet it's night and day with the noesis. I'd never compare the two. That's just two different animals. But the S8's would be a good setup with subs for some who really want to get to reference without breaking the bank. I mean hell they do sound a lot better then my Mythos setup.. Lol.. Good to hear you and coach doin the a/b/c comparison. Those cats are impressive speakers also. Btw d, I'm looking to dive into the DIY world by next year. I have room for 2 FTW 21's. Mainly experimental purpose bro..

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I'm glad you are enjoying them so much...but dammit, you have 215s...what the hell are you waiting for. And regarding the S8s, I was also running them with subs. I just don't like the tonal qualities of the S8 as much as the Noesis, for me its like NIGHT and DAY. Maybe I just expected more after hearing some people gush about them in one of the GTGs. If we all liked the same thing, there wouldn't be so many speaker companies.
rhed is online now  
post #22076 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:52 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Unless the speaker is broken it is certainly the room. My 212HT L&R measured at the MLP with no subs and no eq give a huge increase starting at 150hz. The center has a dip around 80 but the huge jump in midbass (I hate that non descript term) from 150hz down to about 90hz for all three. I almost have to laugh when I keep reading about this midbass issue for the 212. In pure output down to 80 hz the 212HT has more than the 215! Lower than that yes the 215 takes over. If matched with subs designed to cross between 80-100hz I don't see the issue. No matter how we define midbass I think we would agree it is in the modal region, so Archea is likely correct about the room.


In my system the output from 20hz-150hz is over 130dB at the MLP which is 13 ft from the LCR's!.


Here is the L&R 212HT no subs no eq. The the last FR is with the OS's integrated and turned down for movie (more flat). Every room will be different.
The only comment I have is that I have the 212HT-LP, which is the sealed version. It could be a different animal than the ported, it may be since I'm one of the few complaining but also one of the few with the sealed 212. I'll not say anymore until I do some more testing in my room and Coach's.
dgage is offline  
post #22077 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 09:58 PM
Deep Sea Sound
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,639
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1116 Post(s)
Liked: 698
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I bet it's night and day with the noesis. I'd never compare the two. That's just two different animals. But the S8's would be a good setup with subs for some who really want to get to reference without breaking the bank. I mean hell they do sound a lot better then my Mythos setup.. Lol.. Good to hear you and coach doin the a/b/c comparison. Those cats are impressive speakers also. Btw d, I'm looking to dive into the DIY world by next year. I have room for 2 FTW 21's. Mainly experimental purpose bro..
I've heard others say the Noesis and S8 are different animals but they're both speakers and the S8 isn't exactly cheap at $1000+. To me a speaker is a speaker, especially at this level. So I guess my outlook on the matter is a little different, which seems to be a common thread with me tonight.

I haven't heard the FTW-21s but they should be fun and I'd expect a very nice sub. You are going to have one of the best systems on the entire island chain. As if I needed any more reason to visit the islands.
dgage is offline  
post #22078 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 10:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lbrown105's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 1,274
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 394 Post(s)
Liked: 220
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
The only comment I have is that I have the 212HT-LP, which is the sealed version. It could be a different animal than the ported, it may be since I'm one of the few complaining but also one of the few with the sealed 212. I'll not say anymore until I do some more testing in my room and Coach's.

Don't get me wrong I am not saying you don't have a midbass issue it is just the cause that needs to be fully examined. Here is a plot from back in 2012 of my T12LP. Not the exact same speaker as yours but for this part of the FR it should measure the same. Also MBM's are a great resolution to the problem but because of placement and proximity to boundaries not necessarily output. This is why you see so many guys in the DIY forum go crazy when they see someone place an MBM exactly where their floorstander was, had a midbass issue. But hey at least they look symmetrical


Just for interest here is that sealed T12. Not trying to start a big controversy but make sure new buyers really have additional facts and view points to consider that's all.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	t12lp no subs, no eq in room fr.jpg
Views:	55
Size:	71.8 KB
ID:	211225  

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
lbrown105 is offline  
post #22079 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 10:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,279
Mentioned: 66 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1417 Post(s)
Liked: 770
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
@Gooddoc , would you just be buying the M2 speakers or would you also get the amps that go along with them?
I have a call out to the JBL rep to talk to him about using their outboard processor and my LG. So not sure yet.
Gooddoc is offline  
post #22080 of 31063 Old 08-13-2014, 10:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 8,089
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2242 Post(s)
Liked: 1700
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I've heard others say the Noesis and S8 are different animals but they're both speakers and the S8 isn't exactly cheap at $1000+. To me a speaker is a speaker, especially at this level. So I guess my outlook on the matter is a little different, which seems to be a common thread with me tonight.
I use to think the S8's were pricey at $1000ea but once you start to factor in a few things the price makes sense. I mean its using a mid and coax compression driver setup that costs $500 alone. Then you factor in the cost of building a crossover and having the cabinets built and finished.
jbrown15 is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
Gear in this thread - 215RT by PriceGrabber.com



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off