Official JTR speaker thread - Page 736 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
Thanks but I will still hold you to some pictures as things progress.


What amps did you decide on for the 215's?
2 inuke 6000 dsp
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
2 inuke 6000 dsp
If you are going to listen to much music, use one iNuke 6000 for the left channel and center speaker and the other iNuke 6000 for the right channel. When playing two-channel music, each amp acts as a monoblock and you don't get any crosstalk whatsoever among channels. It also means you won't forget to power the center speaker even for two-channel listening. See the following for more explanation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
Unpowered speakers are a problem because their unshorted voicecoils will not resist the induced sympathetic vibration from the active speakers in the room and that will contribute their resonant response to the performance. Not good.

OTOH, if the unused center/surround/etc. speakers are connected to powered amps, even with the amp inputs muted, the low output impedance of the amps will shunt the voice coils and effectively damp the movement of the "silent" drivers.

All my amps/speakers powered up all the time, even when I am listening in stereo.

Kal
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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I think Kal is 100% correct there, but I have to say, even when I had my amp running the two jbl 2242's on, but muted, it still didn't "shunt" the drivers enough to quell them when the other 8 sealed 18's were going to town. It still almost seemed like they were actually ON! In more casual systems I would tend to agree. but not on something like rhed is embarking on.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
If you are going to listen to much music, use one iNuke 6000 for the left channel and center speaker and the other iNuke 6000 for the right channel. When playing two-channel music, each amp acts as a monoblock and you don't get any crosstalk whatsoever among channels. It also means you won't forget to power the center speaker even for two-channel listening. See the following for more explanation:
Thanks DD.. Never thought about that. And since each amp will be on their own 20 amp cuircut it more so it makes sense. Ha, learn something everyday.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I think Kal is 100% correct there, but I have to say, even when I had my amp running the two jbl 2242's on, but muted, it still didn't "shunt" the drivers enough to quell them when the other 8 sealed 18's were going to town. It still almost seemed like they were actually ON! In more casual systems I would tend to agree. but not on something like rhed is embarking on.
Beast.. So your saying it doesn't matter if it's done that way or not? One more thing. I'm not to familiar with the inukes yet. But as soon as I get them I'll have to play around with them first. When EQing, does the inuke EQ for both channels at the same time? Or can it be done independently? Thanks guys..
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Beast.. So your saying it doesn't matter if it's done that way or not? One more thing. I'm not to familiar with the inukes yet. But as soon as I get them I'll have to play around with them first. When EQing, does the inuke EQ for both channels at the same time? Or can it be done independently? Thanks guys..
With the sheer firepower that you, I and plenty of others around here are working with, from my personal experience, is too much for the "powered" but unused channels shunt to work as Kal mentioned. I recon the concept is sound, but IME, it is too little of a shunt to work when you have uber amounts of displacement coming from all the speakers that are in fact operating. I remember and Rilla's place when we had the two catalyst 12c running with a silly full range house curve, it was even making the two S2's we had up front move pretty crazy. I SWORE that they were on and that Jeff and Mark were screwing with us. In fact, they were indeed not engaged, but looked as if they were pounding away almost as if they were hanging right there with the cats! It was crazy.
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Old 08-15-2014, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
With the sheer firepower that you, I and plenty of others around here are working with, from my personal experience, is too much for the "powered" but unused channels shunt to work as Kal mentioned. I recon the concept is sound, but IME, it is too little of a shunt to work when you have uber amounts of displacement coming from all the speakers that are in fact operating.
So use a real shunt. A paper clip will do.

Kal Rubinson

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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Old 08-15-2014, 02:27 PM
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So use a real shunt. A paper clip will do.
Haha, yea and make sure you pull that piece before you fire that speaker back up eh?
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:30 PM
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Popalock turned me on to the subwoofer song thread...I feel like a new frontier has been discovered!!! Just revved up to reference with one song and DANG!!! Intense!!! So clean and powerful, it was a little scary to be honest. Of course my music is up like 15db on the subs, just music...

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Old 08-15-2014, 09:23 PM
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Amps

My 3 T12s should be in hand shortly. At this point I'm wavering between upgrading my receiver (a 5 year old 5.1 Denon) or springing for some amps and waiting to upgrade the receiver until this whole atmos thing shakes out. I was considering a Denon X4100 (not quite available), but now am leaning towards picking up 3 inuke 1000 DSPs to power the front stage instead.

Am I crazy?

Anyway, would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

Last edited by kronin; 08-15-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rhed View Post
I'm about to get things going this weekend. Taking down the old speakers. And building the panel backings for the S8's. I'm still waiting on the amps and other cables and wires to arrive. Though I have very limited time right now. As I work 6 and sometimes 7 days. Trying to finish up the new condo to be turned over by November. I got the RT's for L/R and RM for center.
Do you have a thread dedicated to your space? I'd love to subscribe to check out your progression.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
If you are going to listen to much music, use one iNuke 6000 for the left channel and center speaker and the other iNuke 6000 for the right channel. When playing two-channel music, each amp acts as a monoblock and you don't get any crosstalk whatsoever among channels. It also means you won't forget to power the center speaker even for two-channel listening. See the following for more explanation:
Wow, that's interesting stuff DD! I'm going to have to read up on this a bit more. I wonder if anyone has actually taken the time to measure a shunted vs unshunted in their space? I wonder if there would be a noticable measured difference. Very interesting indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
My 3 T12s should be in hand shortly. At this point I'm wavering between upgrading my receiver (a 5 year old 5.1 Denon) or springing for some amps and waiting to upgrade the receiver until this whole atmos thing shakes out. I was considering a Denon X4100 (not quite available), but now am leaning towards picking up 3 inuke 1000 DSPs to power the front stage instead.

Am I crazy?

Anyway, would appreciate any advice. Thanks!
You are not crazy.

Ted Bundy was crazy.

No one on AVS is crazy.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post

No one on AVS is crazy.

I don't know Pop, I think we could make an argument that anyone who arranges a ridiculous amount of 18" drivers to look like a skin flute could be considered crazy!...lol
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kronin View Post
My 3 T12s should be in hand shortly. At this point I'm wavering between upgrading my receiver (a 5 year old 5.1 Denon) or springing for some amps and waiting to upgrade the receiver until this whole atmos thing shakes out. I was considering a Denon X4100 (not quite available), but now am leaning towards picking up 3 inuke 1000 DSPs to power the front stage instead.

Am I crazy?

Anyway, would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

IMO wait until it shakes out then get the receiver. At 101db sensitivity with the T12's you will not need (or notice) the extra power of the Inukes. Now if you are going to use the DSP for manual eq then I would have to reconsider. What is your plan for the Inukes DSP?
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Do you have a thread dedicated to your space? I'd love to subscribe to check out your progression.


Wow, that's interesting stuff DD! I'm going to have to read up on this a bit more. I wonder if anyone has actually taken the time to measure a shunted vs unshunted in their space? I wonder if there would be a noticable measured difference. Very interesting indeed.


You are not crazy.

Ted Bundy was crazy.

No one on AVS is crazy.
What he meant instead of "no one" is "not just one" ..crazy people mistype stuff all the time.....because the number is much higher on the JTR thread...probably at least 20 (myself included)

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Old 08-16-2014, 07:45 AM
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I've been pretty busy lately with school starting. I haven't really had time to listen to my system this past week, in fact other than watching some tv with the family a couple of nights this week I hadn't listened to any music at all this week which is very, very rare for me.

So, I come downstairs this morning and turn on some music.

WOW!!!!!

As much as I love the sound of music in here when I am in here day in and day out (actually more like night in night out in the summer), for some reason music sounds that much better after the rare occasions that I have a few days off.

Have you guys noticed this?

To me this is yet ANOTHER reason (one of many) why listening impressions of different speakers is so subjective. For me a huge variable in how much I would like a speaker would be how long it has been since I have spent some time listening to music.

So many variables... the longer I've been in this hobby the more reluctant I get to recommending speakers to others. I still do, but it's becoming less and less. If something as simple as the amount of time it's been since someone has listened to a system will affect their impressions and then you throw in different room, possibly different style of music, mood of the listener, etc. what chance do our ears have.....

A big turning point for me was when Archaea was over here recently to check out the 215's. I posted this before, he did not perceive a strong center image with 2 channel music. What?!?! As I sat down today and turned on some music for the first time in a week that was the very first thing that jumped out at me. The singer is in the room and standing in front of me dead center. Almost chillingly so.

The fact that Archaea doesn't have the same perception of a strong center image without moving back to the second row just shows how different everyone's ears/brains are at interpreting sound. To me that is a massive difference and is very interesting to me that people can be so different.

So, when I get PM's about JTR and specifically the 215's I am much more careful to say any impression is my opinion and they should go hear some speakers before making a decision. I'm even nervous about doing demo's since it's a different room and there are all those variables mentioned above.



Ahhhhh, whatever, haha, I'm basically just blabbering and posting what is currently in my head. No real point here. I've been busy lately and haven't been on the forum so just catching up today and spewing non-sense.

BTW, I got a message that someone said that I am selling my 215's. No friggin way that is happening.
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:54 AM
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I;m with you Carp, my wife and daughter just left about an hour ago for 3 a day trip to her parents, Im home alone!
I literally ran down stairs at 8am and cranked some tunes LOL. I have my list of movies to watch in all their reference glory this weekend. It all starts in 2 hours lol until then, Im enjoying random on my NAS server!
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:58 AM
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I;m with you Carp, my wife and daughter just left about an hour ago for 3 a day trip to her parents, Im home alone!
I literally ran down stairs at 8am and cranked some tunes LOL. I have my list of movies to watch in all their reference glory this weekend. It all starts in 2 hours lol until then, Im enjoying random on my NAS server!
Ahh nothing like having some time alone with the system! Enjoy!

Add a few beers to the mix and I'm in my happy place for sure.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post

BTW, I got a message that someone said that I am selling my 215's. No friggin way that is happening.
If you do sell them I think they would work great in their original position at my house flanking my 42" tv upstairs. I can barely hear the built in tv speakers.

Btw I watched Oblivion for the first time last night and what a great movie for audio. The soundstage was huge and the S8's got a heavy workout. There is one scene where one of the "water sucking machines" blows up and the initial explosion happens off screen and sounded like my whole left wall was going to cave in...of course I had to rewind it and play it again.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:27 AM
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BTW, I got a message that someone said that I am selling my 215's. No friggin way that is happening.
I read in the classy's that Coach is selling his. Must have you confused.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:29 AM
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I work from home a lot so have been known to take a long lunch or two and watch new blu ray releases as soon as they arrive. There is something about being home alone and cranking it as loud as I want.

BTW, I just checked the hours on my bulb that I put in around the new year...2000 hours and I haven't used it that much last couple of months
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:32 AM
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I read in the classy's that Coach is selling his. Must have you confused.
That is probably what happened. Yes, I am trying to sell mine.
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
I work from home a lot so have been known to take a long lunch or two and watch new blu ray releases as soon as they arrive. There is something about being home alone and cranking it as loud as I want.

BTW, I just checked the hours on my bulb that I put in around the new year...2000 hours and I haven't used it that much last couple of months
My bulb life is getting up there too...mostly from all the hours of calibrations and running through different scenes. Adds up fast..
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:36 AM
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I still have not seen a review of the Noesis 210RT, maybe I just missed it? Does anyone here own them or has heard them?


I own the 228s and love them. If I had the space for them I would get 212s or even the 215s. Even though I have dual Submersives
in the rear corners of my room I wouldn't mind more bass up front. Hence, the interest in the 210RT, they are the same width as the 228s.


Also, I have the Sherbourn amp, would this drive the 210s fine?

JTR Noesis 212HTR (LR)JTR 228 (Center and Surrounds)Seaton SubMersive HP Plus and Minus (Subs)Denon 3312 (Receiver)Sherbourn PA 7-350 (Amp)Oppo BDP-103 (BluRay Player) and Sharp 80" TV
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:40 AM
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If you do sell them I think they would work great in their original position at my house flanking my 42" tv upstairs. I can barely hear the built in tv speakers.

Btw I watched Oblivion for the first time last night and what a great movie for audio. The soundstage was huge and the S8's got a heavy workout. There is one scene where one of the "water sucking machines" blows up and the initial explosion happens off screen and sounded like my whole left wall was going to cave in...of course I had to rewind it and play it again.

Ha, well I can't picture your living room without the 215's - they fit the room perfectly!

That's awesome, I'm sure the S2's got a workout!!

I bet the surround effects in that movie in your room are about as good as it gets for home theater.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I read in the classy's that Coach is selling his. Must have you confused.
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Originally Posted by COACH2369 View Post
That is probably what happened. Yes, I am trying to sell mine.

That's too bad they didn't work out but if you are like me you don't mind too much - I'd rather really know how a speaker will do in my room instead of just wondering. Now you know for sure.
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:00 PM
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Can't wait to build mines too. Gonna have my weekends back. So 2 or maybe 4 sealed FTW 21's up front next to the 215's would be stellar. While the 4 S2's take the sidelines and the rears...
Rhed - In case you didn't know it, you are in a seismically active zone. Please, for the love of humanity on the west coast, NO MORE SUBS! Haha...just kidding. Should be phenomenal. But instead of up front, I would put some subs on each wall as a start and then try different positions from there. Coach had 6 SI18s (2 pairs dual-opposed) up front and 1 DO SI18 in the back. We moved 1 DO SI18 to the left center wall and 1 to the right center wall and the bass was much better and then even better when calibrated in those positions.

Geez, I need to thank Coach for all the acoustical training I get...but he is getting a lot of my time too, so right now it is more of a synergistic time sink, which is better than the time AND money sink this hobby normally is. Of course, that's just because I have him spending all of the money right now. HA!
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:07 PM
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Do you have a thread dedicated to your space? I'd love to subscribe to check out your progression.
I don't have a page yet. Was just on-site preparing to run low-voltage. I took a bunch of pictures, so I guess it's time to write something up :-)

Thanks everyone for the input. I guess I'll just make do with what I have for now and add as necessary.

As far as wiring, the equipment will be in the left-front behind the screen wall. Besides that, I'm wiring for side surrounds and back surrounds, along with 4 ceilings just in case.

I'll have to start reading up on the DIY subs, as otherwise I'm left with my SVS PB12-NSD.

Build thread link coming soon, gotta go back and pull some wire first.
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Rhed - In case you didn't know it, you are in a seismically active zone. Please, for the love of humanity on the west coast, NO MORE SUBS! Haha...just kidding. Should be phenomenal. But instead of up front, I would put some subs on each wall as a start and then try different positions from there. Coach had 6 SI18s (2 pairs dual-opposed) up front and 1 DO SI18 in the back. We moved 1 DO SI18 to the left center wall and 1 to the right center wall and the bass was much better and then even better when calibrated in those positions.

Geez, I need to thank Coach for all the acoustical training I get...but he is getting a lot of my time too, so right now it is more of a synergistic time sink, which is better than the time AND money sink this hobby normally is. Of course, that's just because I have him spending all of the money right now. HA!
You know that's exactly how I have the 4 S2's position right now. 1 on each sides and 2 1/4 way in from the corner at the rears. I got the best response that way. Up front wasn't that great. I'm just speculating that the 21 inchers would give me a different response up front. As of right now, since it's gonna be my first DIY project I might start off with 2 for now just to see how it comes out after building it. And build the other 2 by next year. I'm hoping to start the first 2 by end of this year. Expect a lot of Pm's from me all you diy'ers. Lol.. Much help will be appreciated.. Gonna start hanging out on the DIY section and get some knowledge. Thanks dgage..
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:22 PM
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Rhed - In case you didn't know it, you are in a seismically active zone. Please, for the love of humanity on the west coast, NO MORE SUBS! Haha...just kidding. Should be phenomenal. But instead of up front, I would put some subs on each wall as a start and then try different positions from there. Coach had 6 SI18s (2 pairs dual-opposed) up front and 1 DO SI18 in the back. We moved 1 DO SI18 to the left center wall and 1 to the right center wall and the bass was much better and then even better when calibrated in those positions.

Geez, I need to thank Coach for all the acoustical training I get...but he is getting a lot of my time too, so right now it is more of a synergistic time sink, which is better than the time AND money sink this hobby normally is. Of course, that's just because I have him spending all of the money right now. HA!
Yup....and that is why your trips to my house will be limited.
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Old 08-16-2014, 02:26 PM
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Location: Canada
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The FTW 21's work best in a 6-7 cF box. Gives you good excursion and air spring to protect the driver in a reasonable size. I highly doubt putting them up front will change anything in your response. They will have less output that your S2's unless you go giant ported/horn.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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215RT , 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp , noesis
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