Official JTR speaker thread - Page 739 - AVS Forum
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post #22141 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 08:07 PM
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Can't wait to build mines too. Gonna have my weekends back. So 2 or maybe 4 sealed FTW 21's up front next to the 215's would be stellar. While the 4 S2's take the sidelines and the rears...


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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Before I actually decided to go DIY and build my subs I was VERY close to buying a OS LFU, and was actually ready to drop the cash on one even though it would have cost me close to 4 grand after exchange rate because I'm in Canada, shipping and taxes. But the more I read about building my own subs and talking with a few forum members, the more I realize that was the route for me.


If you built eight subs like mine; that would literally be insane. Four up front and four out back would be outright scary
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post #22142 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 08:57 PM
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^ Rhed, you are really getting out of control. Keep it up!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #22143 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Before I actually decided to go DIY and build my subs I was VERY close to buying a OS LFU, and was actually ready to drop the cash on one even though it would have cost me close to 4 grand after exchange rate because I'm in Canada, shipping and taxes. But the more I read about building my own subs and talking with a few forum members, the more I realize that was the route for me.


If you built eight subs like mine; that would literally be insane. Four up front and four out back would be outright scary
Forums like these keep you hooked. Building a sub was never my plan but I've been reading the DIY Sub thread for the last 2 hours.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/review/...8/category/64/

Can we just buy the ready made Sub box from the link above, paint it, get the UXL-18 driver, amp, wires etc and be done...It seems doable but I need to do more reading. So, from speakers forum I'd be moving to the DIY subforum..lol

jbrown15: do you have a thread or detailed instructions on how you built your Subs? Thx
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post #22144 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:06 PM
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My brother who's a carpenter finisher for 10 years. Now a foreman at his job. I showed em some pictures of sub cabs with all the bracing on them. One word out of em.. " shh, Easy!". When are we gonna start? Lol...

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^ Rhed, you are really getting out of control. Keep it up!
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post #22145 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:11 PM
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^ Rhed I don't know what is going to be more epic when I come to Hawaii, 30ft waves on the North Shore in Feb or the epic bass waves emanating from your house!!

Pre-Pro: Emotiva UMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #22146 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Forums like these keep you hooked. Building a sub was never my plan but I've been reading the DIY Sub thread for the last 2 hours.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/review/...8/category/64/

Can we just buy the ready made Sub box from the link above, paint it, get the UXL-18 driver, amp, wires etc and be done...It seems doable but I need to do more reading. So, from speakers forum I'd be moving to the DIY subforum..lol

jbrown15: do you have a thread or detailed instructions on how you built your Subs? Thx
Here's my build thread. LTD-M18 Sub Build

I don't know what your room is like but if you have a false wall/AT screen setup like mine to hide the subs you can get pretty crazy with with multiple subs.

Send me a pm if you have any questions.
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post #22147 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Here's my build thread. LTD-M18 Sub Build

I don't know what your room is like but if you have a false wall/AT screen setup like mine to hide the subs you can get pretty crazy with with multiple subs.

Send me a pm if you have any questions.
Yes, planning for a baffle wall with a Seymour AT screen. Sony PJ. The bigger issue is wife doesn't agree with 10-12K on speakers so I need to work that out. If I can save money on subs and clear out the JTR vs Procella conundrum, that would help. I'm clear on the PJ, screen etc.

Will JTR be at cedia?
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post #22148 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 09:26 PM
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I don't think you'll find JTR speakers at cedia, where are you located? I think you're best bet to hear some JTR's is right hear, find someone close to you and see if they'll let you have a listen.

I have to say if you're mostly going to use the speakers for movies and tv the 228HT's are one of the best bang for buck speakers on the market. They can easily hang with some pretty expensive speakers.
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post #22149 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
^ Rhed I don't know what is going to be more epic when I come to Hawaii, 30ft waves on the North Shore in Feb or the epic bass waves emanating from your house!!
Ib.. The waves here is just a sight to behold when it's up 20+. Only gets that big on our winter time.. Lol.. Yea, right. I laugh at our winter because it's still 80-83 degrees and sunny in our winter here.. Lol..
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post #22150 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post
The JTR speakers are voiced flat which is Jeff's preference but it is counter to what most people find appealing. To counter this you just need to boost the mid-bass up with an EQ to get the sound you want. The speakers are more than capable enough to take the boost you give them and no suffer and ill consequences. Now the only thing that boosting cannot do is overcome room issues. The only way to overcome these are to either move the speaker placement or modify the room. You mentioned a 100Hz hole which you couldn't EQ out which would be due to a room / speaker placement issue. http://peavey.com/support/technotes/...ncellation.cfm

I have had my T12s for a couple years now and recently EQ'd them which made the mid-bass and even bass from them really stand out. The bass was enough to where I thought the subs kicked on in addition to the L / R speakers.

Added in Edit: You mentioned that the speakers had the same FR in two rooms. If this is the case I would say possibly a faulty speaker. One sure fire way to test, but a pain, would be to test the FR out in an open field.
Can you upload your FR response? Would love to see before and after

If I am reading these charts and the room has an impact on mid bass....how can adding a MBM help?[/QUOTE]

Different driver location can not have a dip at that FR. Why most say subs usually don't measure best where main speakers are. But each room is different.

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I am looking at switching routes slightly and going from stands for my Noesis 228HT to placing them on top of my subs. Any suggestions on the best thing to use to isolate them so there isn't undesired movement/scratching?
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Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
I have my 228s on top of my Submersives. I am sure it is not ideal but you do what you have to.
My subs are sealed with dual opposing drives so they don't vibrate at all. I just use small stick on felt pads to reduce any marking on the finish. If you have single driver subs they probably really shake at times.
I have Triple 8's LP's on top of my two submersives flanked at the LR positions. Felt pads is all and they never move an inch

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Everybody is happy with Bose till they hear a full JTR set up. You should see if there is anybody near by that would be willing to give you a demo.
Papalock, don't you have a youtube vid of your epic bose subwoofer moving air?

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^ Rhed, you are really getting out of control. Keep it up!
Quote:
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^ Rhed I don't know what is going to be more epic when I come to Hawaii, 30ft waves on the North Shore in Feb or the epic bass waves emanating from your house!!
Rhed is actually causing the waves 4-21's with quad Cap S2's? Straight N8 status...almost...
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Ib.. The waves here is just a sight to behold when it's up 20+. Only gets that big on our winter time.. Lol.. Yea, right. I laugh at our winter because it's still 80-83 degrees and sunny in our winter here.. Lol..

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post #22151 of 23377 Old 08-14-2014, 11:13 PM
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Can you upload your FR response? Would love to see before and after

If I am reading these charts and the room has an impact on mid bass....how can adding a MBM help?
Different driver location can not have a dip at that FR. Why most say subs usually don't measure best where main speakers are. But each room is different.





I have Triple 8's LP's on top of my two submersives flanked at the LR positions. Felt pads is all and they never move an inch


Papalock, don't you have a youtube vid of your epic bose subwoofer moving air?





Rhed is actually causing the waves 4-21's with quad Cap S2's? Straight N8 status...almost...[/QUOTE]

That's funny bro! Btw, I'm going on a fishing trip over to south point at the Big island soon. For some ulua fishing. I figured you know where that is since you were in the Big island before. Can't hardly wait. Haven't cast my poles and conventionals for a long time..
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post #22152 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Can't wait to build mines too. Gonna have my weekends back. So 2 or maybe 4 sealed FTW 21's up front next to the 215's would be stellar. While the 4 S2's take the sidelines and the rears...
Holy smokes...you don't play around.


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #22153 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by smuggymba View Post
Will JTR be at cedia?
I don't think so, but JTR will be in Denver the next month at Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. October 9-11
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post #22154 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 06:47 AM
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Holy smokes...you don't play around.
rhed....do you have your 215's set-up and running yet? Would like to hear your impressions. Did you get 3 215RT's or did you get a 215RM for center? Pictures are good to.

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post #22155 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Can't wait to build mines too. Gonna have my weekends back. So 2 or maybe 4 sealed FTW 21's up front next to the 215's would be stellar. While the 4 S2's take the sidelines and the rears...
That's crazy talk

And I like it
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post #22156 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 08:45 AM
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Can the experts here comment on which would be a better system; Dedicated room for movies and music, don't have any soundproofing. I believe price range is pretty much the same for both brands for the speakers mentioned below.

LCR: JTR 228HT or Procella P6

Surrounds: JTR Slanted 8HT or Procella P5

Subs: Two (should not be more than $3500 for both), haven't decided on the brand.

Are they both good or is one clearly a winner over the other? My budget doesn't allow me to go any higher on either brand. Thoughts on who is the clear winner. Thx
Smug by,

I have heard the 212 and the P8 in my own room a few months ago. They were randy bessingers p8's. Carp was there along with stitch1 but archaea did not make it.

My room is well treated. We used my denon 4311 and left calibration off. We listened to music and movie clips. Everyone there preferred the 212 by quite a bit. We were initially going to do the test blind. It ended up that it was not necessary bc it was just that obvious. The speakers actually have some similarities in that they both sound like compression drivers. Good ones. But the biggest difference for me was the soundstage. The 212 is a bigger speaker and it gives you a bigger sound. Much much bigger. There is also greater detail and clarity at high volumes.

I should mention that one of the p8 had a problem so we only had it at reference one time and then backed off. Randy has his p8 crossed over high to his p10 subs so his system no doubt has more mid bass than what we were hearing in my room.

I have heArd the 228 and while it did not have as large of a soundstage and it it not as good for music I still feel it is a phenomenal movie speaker.
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post #22157 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 09:22 AM
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rhed....do you have your 215's set-up and running yet? Would like to hear your impressions. Did you get 3 215RT's or did you get a 215RM for center? Pictures are good to.
I'm about to get things going this weekend. Taking down the old speakers. And building the panel backings for the S8's. I'm still waiting on the amps and other cables and wires to arrive. Though I have very limited time right now. As I work 6 and sometimes 7 days. Trying to finish up the new condo to be turned over by November. I got the RT's for L/R and RM for center.
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post #22158 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 10:10 AM
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Smug by,

I have heard the 212 and the P8 in my own room a few months ago. They were randy bessingers p8's. Carp was there along with stitch1 but archaea did not make it.

My room is well treated. We used my denon 4311 and left calibration off. We listened to music and movie clips. Everyone there preferred the 212 by quite a bit. We were initially going to do the test blind. It ended up that it was not necessary bc it was just that obvious. The speakers actually have some similarities in that they both sound like compression drivers. Good ones. But the biggest difference for me was the soundstage. The 212 is a bigger speaker and it gives you a bigger sound. Much much bigger. There is also greater detail and clarity at high volumes.

I should mention that one of the p8 had a problem so we only had it at reference one time and then backed off. Randy has his p8 crossed over high to his p10 subs so his system no doubt has more mid bass than what we were hearing in my room.

I have heArd the 228 and while it did not have as large of a soundstage and it it not as good for music I still feel it is a phenomenal movie speaker.
I should add that the 212 were carps and I bought them after that demo.
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post #22159 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 10:16 AM
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Can a house made of studs and drywall handle 8 subs on the second floor? When my kid runs on the second floor I can hear them. What kind of damage can 8 subs with that kind of power do?
In short, yes your house can handle them.

But, there are always different standards in construction and things can happen. Cracks in drywall, trim work attached to walls can be loosened, but that's all cosmetic.
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Thanks but I will still hold you to some pictures as things progress.


What amps did you decide on for the 215's?








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I'm about to get things going this weekend. Taking down the old speakers. And building the panel backings for the S8's. I'm still waiting on the amps and other cables and wires to arrive. Though I have very limited time right now. As I work 6 and sometimes 7 days. Trying to finish up the new condo to be turned over by November. I got the RT's for L/R and RM for center.

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post #22161 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 12:23 PM
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Thanks but I will still hold you to some pictures as things progress.


What amps did you decide on for the 215's?
2 inuke 6000 dsp
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post #22162 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 12:42 PM
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2 inuke 6000 dsp
If you are going to listen to much music, use one iNuke 6000 for the left channel and center speaker and the other iNuke 6000 for the right channel. When playing two-channel music, each amp acts as a monoblock and you don't get any crosstalk whatsoever among channels. It also means you won't forget to power the center speaker even for two-channel listening. See the following for more explanation:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson
Unpowered speakers are a problem because their unshorted voicecoils will not resist the induced sympathetic vibration from the active speakers in the room and that will contribute their resonant response to the performance. Not good.

OTOH, if the unused center/surround/etc. speakers are connected to powered amps, even with the amp inputs muted, the low output impedance of the amps will shunt the voice coils and effectively damp the movement of the "silent" drivers.

All my amps/speakers powered up all the time, even when I am listening in stereo.

Kal
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post #22163 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 12:56 PM
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I think Kal is 100% correct there, but I have to say, even when I had my amp running the two jbl 2242's on, but muted, it still didn't "shunt" the drivers enough to quell them when the other 8 sealed 18's were going to town. It still almost seemed like they were actually ON! In more casual systems I would tend to agree. but not on something like rhed is embarking on.
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post #22164 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 01:08 PM
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If you are going to listen to much music, use one iNuke 6000 for the left channel and center speaker and the other iNuke 6000 for the right channel. When playing two-channel music, each amp acts as a monoblock and you don't get any crosstalk whatsoever among channels. It also means you won't forget to power the center speaker even for two-channel listening. See the following for more explanation:
Thanks DD.. Never thought about that. And since each amp will be on their own 20 amp cuircut it more so it makes sense. Ha, learn something everyday.
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post #22165 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 01:46 PM
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I think Kal is 100% correct there, but I have to say, even when I had my amp running the two jbl 2242's on, but muted, it still didn't "shunt" the drivers enough to quell them when the other 8 sealed 18's were going to town. It still almost seemed like they were actually ON! In more casual systems I would tend to agree. but not on something like rhed is embarking on.
Beast.. So your saying it doesn't matter if it's done that way or not? One more thing. I'm not to familiar with the inukes yet. But as soon as I get them I'll have to play around with them first. When EQing, does the inuke EQ for both channels at the same time? Or can it be done independently? Thanks guys..
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post #22166 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rhed View Post
Beast.. So your saying it doesn't matter if it's done that way or not? One more thing. I'm not to familiar with the inukes yet. But as soon as I get them I'll have to play around with them first. When EQing, does the inuke EQ for both channels at the same time? Or can it be done independently? Thanks guys..
With the sheer firepower that you, I and plenty of others around here are working with, from my personal experience, is too much for the "powered" but unused channels shunt to work as Kal mentioned. I recon the concept is sound, but IME, it is too little of a shunt to work when you have uber amounts of displacement coming from all the speakers that are in fact operating. I remember and Rilla's place when we had the two catalyst 12c running with a silly full range house curve, it was even making the two S2's we had up front move pretty crazy. I SWORE that they were on and that Jeff and Mark were screwing with us. In fact, they were indeed not engaged, but looked as if they were pounding away almost as if they were hanging right there with the cats! It was crazy.

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post #22167 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 02:19 PM
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With the sheer firepower that you, I and plenty of others around here are working with, from my personal experience, is too much for the "powered" but unused channels shunt to work as Kal mentioned. I recon the concept is sound, but IME, it is too little of a shunt to work when you have uber amounts of displacement coming from all the speakers that are in fact operating.
So use a real shunt. A paper clip will do.

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post #22168 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
So use a real shunt. A paper clip will do.
Haha, yea and make sure you pull that piece before you fire that speaker back up eh?

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 


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post #22169 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 06:30 PM
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Popalock turned me on to the subwoofer song thread...I feel like a new frontier has been discovered!!! Just revved up to reference with one song and DANG!!! Intense!!! So clean and powerful, it was a little scary to be honest. Of course my music is up like 15db on the subs, just music...
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DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

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My Setup Thread

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post #22170 of 23377 Old 08-15-2014, 09:23 PM
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Amps

My 3 T12s should be in hand shortly. At this point I'm wavering between upgrading my receiver (a 5 year old 5.1 Denon) or springing for some amps and waiting to upgrade the receiver until this whole atmos thing shakes out. I was considering a Denon X4100 (not quite available), but now am leaning towards picking up 3 inuke 1000 DSPs to power the front stage instead.

Am I crazy?

Anyway, would appreciate any advice. Thanks!

Last edited by kronin; 08-15-2014 at 09:32 PM.
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