Official JTR speaker thread - Page 747 - AVS Forum
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post #22381 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I've had my 3 Triple 12LF for sale for what seems like forever. $2000 for all 3 speakers. Market definitely seems flat.
I cannot believe you still have them. All the people looking for speakers could jump on these and be happy for years. I will send people your way if I see someone looking.
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post #22382 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:42 PM
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SeaNile,

Funny enough I was going to PM you today about your speakers. If you'll ship them for that price, I'll take them off your hands.
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post #22383 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I've had my 3 Triple 12LF for sale for what seems like forever. $2000 for all 3 speakers. Market definitely seems flat.
Yeah, I am surprised that these aren't moving. I sold my T12s within a week and it seemed like in the Spring everything was moving quick. Weird to see T12s, 212s and even 215s not moving quickly???
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post #22384 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post
SeaNile,

Funny enough I was going to PM you today about your speakers. If you'll ship them for that price, I'll take them off your hands.

talk about kicking a guy when he's down!......lol
Shipping big speakers like the T12's sure adds up.

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post #22385 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
talk about kicking a guy when he's down!......lol
Shipping big speakers like the T12's sure adds up.
Well unfortunately for him he's competing with JBL 3677s which are shipped free for the same price. I'm willing to get the JTR instead, but not pay more for them :-)
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post #22386 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM
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We should share our experiences and talk about what we like and don't like about various speakers and set ups. I do feel that opinions posted more like facts that are not rooted in any scientific evidence can be harmful to a speakers reputation and I am as guilty of that as anyone. For instance there may be talk of midbass issues that are well documented modal room issues, and it may be presented as if it is a speaker shortcomings vs a purely subjective observance in a specific room. This certainly isn't helping anyone's resale value. Many noobs on AVS will never know the difference and simply move on. Just my humble opinion of course, no offense pointed at anyone in particular.
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post #22387 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I've had my 3 Triple 12LF for sale for what seems like forever. $2000 for all 3 speakers. Market definitely seems flat.
Do you ever make it out towards Pittsburgh?

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post #22388 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by raynist View Post
Do you ever make it out towards Pittsburgh?
I don't, pretty much stay local to the Philly area unless I fly.


$2,000+shipping. It's not worth the hassle to me to even attempt to ship these for that price including shipping. They can sit in my basement for 15 years before I go through that trouble....
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post #22389 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
We should share our experiences and talk about what we like and don't like about various speakers and set ups. I do feel that opinions posted more like facts that are not rooted in any scientific evidence can be harmful to a speakers reputation and I am as guilty of that as anyone. For instance there may be talk of midbass issues that are well documented modal room issues, and it may be presented as if it is a speaker shortcomings vs a purely subjective observance in a specific room. This certainly isn't helping anyone's resale value. Many noobs on AVS will never know the difference and simply move on. Just my humble opinion of course, no offense pointed at anyone in particular.
In two rooms I'm not convinced they are room modal issues with my SEALED 212s but I will not say anymore until my expensive measuring mic and computer interface/preamp arrive in a few weeks. Then I'll take measurements in the room and out in the yard up in the air.

EDIT - And yes, I'm well aware of the resale issue as if I say something I'm letting prospective owners know that a certain speaker might have issues...but I'm also hurting the value of my speakers that I may be trying to sale soon.
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post #22390 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:24 PM
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^^ well if you measure them in open air and they are not +/- 3dB to the specified F3 point ( I believe 70hz for the sealed then you have broken speaker out of spec. Which by the way is good for people to know, I am all for stating the facts of the situation. I measure all of my JTR's at 1M and both the T12LP and Noesis 212HT measure flat to their specified F3. I hope your measurements solve the cause of the issue. I really only see two outcomes. Either out of spec or room issue.

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post #22391 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I don't, pretty much stay local to the Philly area unless I fly.


$2,000+shipping. It's not worth the hassle to me to even attempt to ship these for that price including shipping. They can sit in my basement for 15 years before I go through that trouble....
Thanks. Nor do I make it out to that side of the state

I wasn't the one asking to ship for that price, you would have to be crazy to do that.
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post #22392 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
You wanna try good $2k projector out? PM me and I will sell you my BenQ w7000 for just a little more than that optoma costs and you will already be in hog heaven. Works perfect, and has 4 prs of 3d glasses coming with it if you want. Honestly it would be a great projector for you for at least a couple years...
Wow, that's sounds like a good deal.

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post #22393 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:32 PM
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Here is my 1M test of the 212HT. Still looking for my T12lp. Its an old measurement but if I find it I'll post it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg noesis 212ht 1 meter full range.jpg (53.8 KB, 33 views)

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post #22394 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
^^ well if you measure them in open air and they are not +/- 3dB to the specified F3 point ( I believe 70hz for the sealed then you have broken speaker out of spec. Which by the way is good for people to know, I am all for stating the facts of the situation. I measure all of my JTR's at 1M and both the T12LP and Noesis 212HT measure flat to their specified F3. I hope your measurements solve the cause of the issue. I really only see two outcomes. Either out of spec or room issue.
Fair enough.
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post #22395 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:42 PM
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Here is my 1M test of the 212HT. Still looking for my T12lp. Its an old measurement but if I find it I'll post it.
Is that in free air or in room? I've never had in-room measurements even close to that on any of my three 212 HT-LPs. I'd be in heaven if mine measured like that. But like I said, I will not say anymore as I have a MiniDSP UMIK-1 and I frankly don't know how good it is. I'll be ordering an Earthworks M50 and RME Fireface UC tomorrow so I can do some measurements in which I will have full confidence of the equipment from 5-25000Hz.
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post #22396 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
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^^ that is in room but at 1M so the room is almost completely taken out of the equation. I have posted my in room at mlp in the past. In my room the mid bass is boosted at the MLP but of course it is not nearly as flat everywhere as at 1M! Anyway your new equipment will be really nice, no doubt. My Galaxy 130 is probably not very accurate above 10kHz.

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post #22397 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I've had my 3 Triple 12LF for sale for what seems like forever. $2000 for all 3 speakers. Market definitely seems flat.
Well I might be interested. That's almost half what I'd pay for new 228s if I decide to go that route. It will depend on the budget.
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post #22398 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 07:27 PM
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Seanile, aren't your speakers the older version? pre 2009?

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post #22399 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 08:43 PM
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Well I might be interested. That's almost half what I'd pay for new 228s if I decide to go that route. It will depend on the budget.
I've heard 2011 triple 12s at the meet in Wisconsin, and even without subwoofers they were my second fav speaker of that full range audiophile meet behind the Seaton Catalyst 12c.
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post #22400 of 22409 Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Here is my 1M test of the 212HT. Still looking for my T12lp. Its an old measurement but if I find it I'll post it.
I've done outdoor FR measurements and polars on the 212HT(a couple times actually, with improved technique on subsequent run) on a turntable every 15deg at 8 ft. off the ground. They measure very well and are true to their specifications.

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post #22401 of 22409 Old Today, 12:52 AM
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^^ Good to know Doc and I am sure know matter how it turns out for Dgage he will be happy that he has nice test equipment to verify things. When I first started learning REW it seemed like a pain at first but even just learning the basics has proved to be very valuable to me.


So it sounds like you may be doing some new measurements in the near future on some new speakers? Good luck with that, from what I read there are really top of the class for studio mastering. Should be an amazing speaker.

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post #22402 of 22409 Old Today, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
I've had my 3 Triple 12LF for sale for what seems like forever. $2000 for all 3 speakers. Market definitely seems flat.
Did you do the CD/XO upgrade to the BMS 4540nd or is it still the original Selenium compression driver. That upgrade cost around $300 per speaker and may bring satisfaction to your current ownership. If not the upgade will definitely make the speaker easier to resale.
Good Luck
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post #22403 of 22409 Old Today, 06:15 AM
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The LP (sealed) version of the 212HT gives up 2-3 dbs of mid bass to the HT (ported) across the 60hz - 120hz range in free air measurements. The LP is specifaclly voiced to work well close to boundaries or in baffles while the ported picks up mid bass the closer it gets to a wall or boundary. With proper placement the HT version can gain 6 -8 dbs over the LP of in room response but will need some EQ'ing. This gain may still not be enough to satisfy some mid bass appetites but if I had to give up 6-8 dbs switching from the HT to the LP I would not be happy either.
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post #22404 of 22409 Old Today, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
The LP (sealed) version of the 212HT gives up 2-3 dbs of mid bass to the HT (ported) across the 60hz - 120hz range in free air measurements. The LP is specifaclly voiced to work well close to boundaries or in baffles while the ported picks up mid bass the closer it gets to a wall or boundary. With proper placement the HT version can gain 6 -8 dbs over the LP of in room response but will need some EQ'ing. This gain may still not be enough to satisfy some mid bass appetites but if I had to give up 6-8 dbs switching from the HT to the LP I would not be happy either.
Chris
Thanks for pointing that out. I purchased the LP because I was putting them in the front left and right corners so figured the sealed would be easier to integrate. However, if I would have known about the 2-3 DB drop in midbass, no way in $&#* would I have bought them. I was ok with them only going down to 70Hz as opposed to 60Hz but that's not what I'm getting in room. Matter of fact, I'm going to pick up my UMIK-1 from Coach so I can get some measurements because this is really bothering me.
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post #22405 of 22409 Old Today, 09:05 AM
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Its a 6db drop in midbass from sealed to ported under 150hz. Ive went over ot with Jeff a few times. I had ported T12s and measured them vs my sealed 212s. It was a 6dB difference. That why I went with bass modules to make up the difference. My 215s are extremely good and measure 6db more with a 10dB difference with a slight eq(which is how i have them setup)

actually it may have been a 6dB drop at 120hz and under.... I can't remember now lol... Either way lol
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post #22406 of 22409 Old Today, 12:22 PM
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Its a 6db drop in midbass from sealed to ported under 150hz. Ive went over ot with Jeff a few times. I had ported T12s and measured them vs my sealed 212s. It was a 6dB difference. That why I went with bass modules to make up the difference. My 215s are extremely good and measure 6db more with a 10dB difference with a slight eq(which is how i have them setup)
I never knew that and that makes me upset to say the least but that supports exactly what I'm seeing on my speakers. Very, very unhappy!
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post #22407 of 22409 Old Today, 01:18 PM
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I never knew that and that makes me upset to say the least but that supports exactly what I'm seeing on my speakers. Very, very unhappy!

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post #22408 of 22409 Old Today, 01:30 PM
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I never knew that and that makes me upset to say the least but that supports exactly what I'm seeing on my speakers. Very, very unhappy!
Well to be fair, I knew that going in and you can just up the EQ to bring them more inline since you have the nano. I knew I'd need stands, which is why I bought the sealed versions to start with, since I already had my 2242H's... the midbass modules were the plan before I even bought my 212's. I knew what the extra midbass was since I had the ported T12's.... I'm way to bass happy! Although the 215's have more than enough, they have more than my 212's-2242 combo and another 4-5 dB's of mid over that!

It's not that big of a deal, from the sounds of it, you'd not be happy with the ported versions either and would be in the same position you are now. I wouldn't have been happy with the ported versions either but then again, I though the same thing with the Seaton Cats, danley SH50's as well. All IMO needed a big midbass bump to make them to my liking for movies.

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post #22409 of 22409 Old Today, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Well to be fair, I knew that going in and you can just up the EQ to bring them more inline since you have the nano. I knew I'd need stands, which is why I bought the sealed versions to start with, since I already had my 2242H's... the midbass modules were the plan before I even bought my 212's. I knew what the extra midbass was since I had the ported T12's.... I'm way to bass happy! Although the 215's have more than enough, they have more than my 212's-2242 combo and another 4-5 dB's of mid over that!

It's not that big of a deal, from the sounds of it, you'd not be happy with the ported versions either and would be in the same position you are now. I wouldn't have been happy with the ported versions either but then again, I though the same thing with the Seaton Cats, danley SH50's as well. All IMO needed a big midbass bump to make them to my liking for movies.
Well I really like the 212HT-LP above 200Hz but I didn't spend $2000+ on each speaker with a pair of 12" woofers to play from 200Hz above. Unlike you I didn't think I would originally need midbass modules and don't have an easy way to integrate them.

Comparing my 212HT-LPs to the Cat12s at Coach's made it seem like the 212s were crossed over much higher than they were. The Cats had plenty of midbass and that was with just a little EQ to try to get the 212, Cat12, and 215HT, in the same EQ neighborhood to go along with the same output level.

Comparing my 212s against the Danley SH50s that I heard at Beast's back in April, it was like I brought a knife into a gun fight when comparing the midbass.

I just went got back from picking up my equipment at Coach's. I'll go outside and measure my 212 in the next couple hours.
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