Originally Posted by lbrown105
I appreciate the frustration with not getting the midbass you want. it is such an important part of the FR for most. IF a 10dB increase in EQ didn't do anything it is almost certainly a room mode. I have to say I didn't think your outside measurement looked quite as flat as I thought it would and it did drop off too early. I agree since you are just getting use to your measurement equipment maybe gain a little more time with it before making a final conclusion about whether it is operating correctly.
I am not trying to talk you out of going to another speaker and the Cats can certainly use multiple dsp settings for lower XO points which is great. I just hate to see you get something in room and then still have the same issue. If the driver's physical placement with a new speaker is different that could make a difference too. I am like you and find the mid/high so good on the Noesis and I would hate to lose that!
Based on your focus of a room mode do you think I've made my mind to switch and am just bad mouthing JTR speakers? No. I don't know what I'd switch to if I were to sell the 212HT-LPs that I'm speaking negatively about, which I'm smart enough to realize my comments will directly affect the value of the speakers I MIGHT but HOPEFULLY WON'T sell in the future. I have no desire to bad mouth JTR speakers, I am strictly speaking my opinion of my speaker that most have not heard but while being AWESOME from 200Hz up, is currently too light in the big boy pants down low. I hope my comments will make sure that no one buys the 212HT-LPs WITHOUT LISTENING TO THEM FOR THEMSELVES.
We've been going back and forth on the room mode issue. I just showed a measurement outside, 5' up in the air, that my 212s drop below 100. I've mentioned that I get similar results on all 3 of my 212HT-LPs in the front left, center, and front right of my room. I've also taken my speakers to Coach's and they measure similarly there and also don't sound in the same league as the Cat12s and 215s in terms of fullness down low. Same weak midbass when I took them to Beasts and ran them against the (much larger) SH50s. So no, I don't think it is a room issue at this point, I think it is a speaker issue or speaker design issue. I will get more measurements before I'm ready to declare defeat with the 212HT-LPs though as I personally want to know what I'm dealing with, want to share with the community so others have more information with which to make a substantial purchase, and in case I go to Jeff and ask what I can do.
The thing is, I don't want to switch. I didn't hear anything in the Cats that tells me they are more detailed at the top of the frequency range but I really haven't had time to listen to music at Coach's and I haven't heard them since Coach had them fully calibrated. At the midbass, I have no doubt they would excite me and address all my midbass concerns, room mOde or not. The thing is, I don't want to change...I want my speaker to act like the $2000+ speaker I expected based on all the reviews and specs posted on Jeff's site. I even like the 212 over the 215 above 200 Hz so I wouldn't necessarily consider the 215RM an upgrade, not to mention they would be two large monoliths in the room. Right now, I don't see any speakers out of JTR, Danley, or Seaton that I know for a fact are my dream speaker...and apparently Gooddoc came to the same conclusion. But I absolutely love hearing that N8Dogg did get his dream speaker....that is AWESOME!
Regarding my measurements, my pro level mic and digital interface/preamp won't be here for a few weeks as the Earthworks M50 microphone is a special order. The measurements I just took are with the UMIK-1 and I've been working with that for about 6 months so there isn't any getting used to my measuring equipment YET. And measurements with REW are easy; set level and measure. The equipment either works or it doesn't, there isn't any day to day tweaking with a USB based microphone.
I'm going over to Asheville to pick up a pair of SI HS24s and a pair of SI HST-18s. Unless something comes up, I'll take more measurements of all 3 of my speakers today and will post the results. Maybe I'll even come up with an off axis jig to test at 0, 30, 60 degrees like Gooddoc did but we'll see.