Official JTR speaker thread - Page 749 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #22441 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 06:42 AM
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That sucks man, that 5400 driver scares me - I've seen too many horror stories.

I'll check with Luke, maybe I'll pick him up this afternoon. Take a nap.
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post #22442 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 06:51 AM
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I'm planning on building out some monster ported boxes for the new HST drivers. As soon as this craziness around the house dies down, I want to holler at Nick for a couple of those bad boys. 15-17hz tune would be plenty for me.
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post #22443 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Yeah he left both here, but only one works now.
Its under warranty and he'll have to send it in. We were not being irresponsible, we were inching up the volume a dB at a time or so until we saw blinking clip lights with the ironman jericho scene with that scene on repeat.
Luke Kamp might come by today too. Carp, come on over when you can.

Yeah for 3 hours of sleep.
Warranty? Meaning he bought them from parts express less than 45 days ago? Evenso, I think he might be looking at a $489 miatake.
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post #22444 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
Yeah he left both here, but only one works now.
Its under warranty and he'll have to send it in. We were not being irresponsible, we were inching up the volume a dB at a time or so until we saw blinking clip lights with the ironman jericho scene with that scene on repeat.
Luke Kamp might come by today too. Carp, come on over when you can.

Yeah for 3 hours of sleep.
Warranty? Meaning he bought them from parts express less than 45 days ago? Evenso, I think he might be looking at a $489 miatake.
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post #22445 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Warranty? Meaning he bought them from parts express less than 45 days ago? Evenso, I think he might be looking at a $489 mistake.


We looked it up and think he's okay.


Warranty is 1 year on manufactures defect which includes surround glue. I honestly do think in this case it was a defect. It never bottomed out (his EPX 4000 watt amp bridged can't even do it), and it started making the air flutter sound way before the other one started tapping out by a soft clinking at max excursion. We thought it was a air leak with one of the screws, but after taking the driver out (and stripping out one of his cab holes trying to make it tighter - his doing not mine) we figured out the surround had come loose of the metal frame.


He's had them for less than a year, cause he just bought them early this spring.


Those LMS-5400 drivers are BEASTS in person. The motor structure makes my 50 lb ultimax 18's look like toys. Ridiculously heavy trying to put in the box.

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post #22446 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post
I'm planning on building out some monster ported boxes for the new HST drivers. As soon as this craziness around the house dies down, I want to holler at Nick for a couple of those bad boys. 15-17hz tune would be plenty for me.

Darn SI


I was quite interested in that HST-18 too, but they weren't going to make them -- -now they are?


I even had contacted Nick early on asking if I could organize a group buy on the HST-18. Annouced right after my eight month delayed shipping Ultimax 18" order is fulfilled too?


ha...

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post #22447 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
That sucks man, that 5400 driver scares me - I've seen too many horror stories.

I'll check with Luke, maybe I'll pick him up this afternoon. Take a nap.

I left a note for Stitch1 and Mr.Smithers as well. I'll also reach out to scrappy and jedimastergrant. It'd be fun to do a brief SQ comparison between a ultimax 18", a SI 18HT, a lms-5400, and a Dayton 18 HO.
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post #22448 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 07:35 AM
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Hey guys. What do you think about paring volt-8's as the rear speakers with my slanted 8's surround speakers? I have wired for 7.1 but I don't have the extra $1666 for two more slant 8's. Thanks!

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post #22449 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
After carefully putting t-nuts in all eight subwoofer enclosures tonight, which took a few hours, (drilled 64 holes incrementally larger till I hit 1/4, then painted around the holes, shop vacing the drills mess out of the cabs, then drove in each of the t-nuts with no sub in place, backing out each bolt after the t-nut was tight - - - it occurred to me that some may think there are too big of profit of margins on DIY stuff. (in relation to the recent conversation about a new ID product based on the ultimax driver in this thread) After spending several hours, on multiple days, and not even getting the drivers in there yet...my opinion - no way.

Before tonight, I'd already spent multiple hours; unboxing the cabs, shopping for parts both online and at home depot, putting the feet on the boxes, unboxing and quality checking the eight subs by running 20hz sine waves through them one at a time in free air for a short bit.
I still have stuff the cabs with polyfill, assemble and mount the back plates with ring terminals and spade connectors, cut 10 gauge wire, wire back plates, wire subs, put subs in boxes, bolt subs into box.
So - - - I've still got a lot of time to sink to finish this project - then if you are selling them, you've got to box them back up too and get them shipped out.
All while answering e-mails, questions, sales related and warranty related, having a presence on the forum - etc.


The job of 'making' a subwoofer takes more time and energy than many people think about --- including myself!





Agreed, time is money and I don't work cheap.

So, you are using these to augment the Caps because you are light on LFE output?

BTW, the room looks very nice.

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post #22450 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 08:43 AM
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No, not light on LFE in the slightest with two ported caps. Just playing with interesting toys.
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post #22451 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 08:55 AM
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215RT update.

We watched The Incredible Hulk last night (first time I watched the entire movie ) at -12MV ... and the Sound Canon scene was very bit as good as with dual OS's. in many ways, the bass now is better as it is so clean. It is kind of like when I had quad JL Fathoms but with much better extension and overall output. For fun (after the wife left the room) I re-ran the sound canon scene at ref level and they had more to give.

When you consider that these speakers are great mains (2 channel or HT) and can also do subwoofer duty, they are an amazing value. Of course, they will not suffice for the most LFE hungry.
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post #22452 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 08:56 AM
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No, not light on LFE in the slightest with two ported caps. Just playing with interesting toys.

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post #22453 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
215RT update.

We watched The Incredible Hulk last night (first time I watched the entire movie ) at -12MV ... and the Sound Canon scene was very bit as good as with dual OS's. in many ways, the bass now is better as it is so clean. It is kind of like when I had quad JL Fathoms but with much better extension and overall output. For fun (after the wife left the room) I re-ran the sound canon scene at ref level and they had more to give.

When you consider that these speakers are great mains (2 channel or HT) and can also do subwoofer duty, they are an amazing value. Of course, they will not suffice for the most LFE hungry.

My sub amp hasn't been turned on in at least a couple weeks so I know what you are talking about.

Do you eq the bass hot or just run them flat, I can't remember?
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post #22454 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
My sub amp hasn't been turned on in at least a couple weeks so I know what you are talking about.

Do you eq the bass hot or just run them flat, I can't remember?
Boy, you two have me thinking. Get the 215s and ditch the dual S2 subs and 212s. My eyes tell me no way the 215s can keep up with dual S2s or dual OS but it sure sounds like some of the die hards on this forum say the 215 are sub like if you feed them enough juice. I love trying new stuff and this has me wondering
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post #22455 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
My sub amp hasn't been turned on in at least a couple weeks so I know what you are talking about.

Do you eq the bass hot or just run them flat, I can't remember?
They are level matched using my Integra (actually -4db for each sub channel and the center 215's lfe is also mixed into the L&R towers) and I still have a moderate bump in the FR down low where it is really needed as measured at the LP.

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post #22456 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:33 AM
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That's moderate? ;p
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post #22457 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
@popalock,


Last night we damaged on of kcnitro07s lms5400 drivers. The surrround came unglued and started flapping. So we played with the other one most of the night, it is so much less capable than the ported captivatator because of type of box alignment it is ridiculous..
It sounds great, but man the tapped out volume difference is huge between the two. We had the driver tapping a bit metallically as we inched up the volume responsibly, and backed down. MLV? - 17db with the sub 6dB Hot on the Ironman jericho scene. I told him he needs to dump the sealed cabs and go to a big ported cab, cause the lms5400 driver is superior to a captivatator driver and the box alignment made the vast difference.

Doh

I might have to pull a notnyt, sell my eight sealed cabs and make big low ported monster boxes for my eight ultimax after that pitiful output demonstration.

Amp was a bridged crrown xls-5000. We discovered in testing the epx-4000 is weaksause compared to the crown xls-5000. Both amps bridged to four ohm mono. Like 6dB different in headroom, and more compression on the epx-4000 bridged. The epx-4000 couldn't put a hurt on the lms5400 driver, the crown easilky could.

All that playing meant I didn't get my eight sealed finished, a task for today.

You gotta love big ported cabinets!



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post #22458 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Gorilla83 View Post
I'm planning on building out some monster ported boxes for the new HST drivers. As soon as this craziness around the house dies down, I want to holler at Nick for a couple of those bad boys. 15-17hz tune would be plenty for me.

Man once again you guys out east have all the fun! ......LOL
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post #22459 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
215RT update.

We watched The Incredible Hulk last night (first time I watched the entire movie ) at -12MV ... and the Sound Canon scene was very bit as good as with dual OS's. in many ways, the bass now is better as it is so clean. It is kind of like when I had quad JL Fathoms but with much better extension and overall output. For fun (after the wife left the room) I re-ran the sound canon scene at ref level and they had more to give.

When you consider that these speakers are great mains (2 channel or HT) and can also do subwoofer duty, they are an amazing value. Of course, they will not suffice for the most LFE hungry.

I've done that demo scene with a local guy and bottomed out both 215's easily at reference with my house curve when playing them full range.... I can't figure out how you and carp can watch movies with just them and watch at reference with house curve with stuff like that. Mine are begging for mercy at reference. I guess the fact that my room is not sealed must be the difference because I'm always reading these types of posts and wondering WTF? lol

Man I wish I had a sealed room!


On another note, I also gotta say it's a good thing Nick is bringing back the HST, they looked to preform very well, although personally they are the ugliest drive thats ever been made LOL It's all personal preference but the 24's look awesome ( minus the cheezy black ring around the basket) and the surrounds on HST are so far beyond awful lol. The regular SI18 looks much better. Although I think my favorite looking driver is the new UM18.... thats one sexy driver!
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post #22460 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Boy, you two have me thinking. Get the 215s and ditch the dual S2 subs and 212s. My eyes tell me no way the 215s can keep up with dual S2s or dual OS but it sure sounds like some of the die hards on this forum say the 215 are sub like if you feed them enough juice. I love trying new stuff and this has me wondering

They won't keep up with a pair of orbit shifters, It is NICE having the bass integrated to the mains, and I can see the appeal there, and I don't want to take anything away from the 215RT - it's an AMAZING speaker!!!! but in all fairness - they are just two ported medium excursion 15" drivers in a big ported cab. I've heard them at their limits and frankly I know one of my ported 2011 captivator subs has more in the tank than one of the 215RT towers for bass duty based on my real world experiences with both (based soley on the fact that my Behringer EP4000 could not bottom out my 2011 captivator ever, even without a high pass filter (HPF) --- regardless of source media (even war of the worlds pod emergence scene) and taking the amp all the way to solid hardly blinking clip lights, but desertdome's Cherry 800 watt monoblock amps were able to cause the 215RT drivers stress without a HPF in place at the dlbeck grand opening. Put the proper HPF in place (any type of ported enclosure needs to be used with an HPF if you are going to run the drivers hard) and the 215RT will take quite a bit more power with epic results! Once the HPF was put in place at the dlbeck meet all was fantastic! So this observation takes nothing away from the 215HT, but if we are truly being transparent here - assuming one is an over the top bass hound like a few of us in this thread - I'd conclude JTR subwoofers (or equivalent) still have their place in tandem with the 215RT.
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post #22461 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:51 AM
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You gotta love big ported cabinets!



EPIC!

VERY NICE


Tooo late - but could you have aimed the ports forward??? I LOVE the air movement from my ported caps - as do most of my guests!!!

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post #22462 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 10:58 AM
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Oh yes, I agree you have to have subs. When watching a blockbuster action movie there is no way I would not have the subs on, same with doing demo's of course.

With a inuke 6000 I can get to over reference with heavy bass scenes but that's with the bass flat, no boost.

I think an interesting comparison would be dual Caps vs. the 215's. I know Jeff says they are = as far as bass output goes but I'd bet that the Caps would win pretty handily.

I would say that (completely subjective) that my 215's put out the same levels of bass that my passive Caps did when they were powered by a single ep4000, so obviously not maxed out. That would mean the Caps have around 6 more db's if you power them with the CV 5000 or the big Crown that Jonathan has.

I could be totally wrong of course, just guessing from all the experiences I've had.
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post #22463 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:02 AM
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EPIC!

VERY NICE


Tooo late - but could you have aimed the ports forward??? I LOVE the air movement from my ported caps - as do most of my guests!!!
I could but I would need to redesign the box and I really don't feel like build four more cabinets right now...lol
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post #22464 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:03 AM
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I think if I were on a suspended floor like Rob I too would not need subs ever. Also don't forget he has 3 and I have 2.
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post #22465 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Boy, you two have me thinking. Get the 215s and ditch the dual S2 subs and 212s. My eyes tell me no way the 215s can keep up with dual S2s or dual OS but it sure sounds like some of the die hards on this forum say the 215 are sub like if you feed them enough juice. I love trying new stuff and this has me wondering
Missed this post. Personally if I were to make any subwoofer change it would be to go to Orbit Shifters from my sealed subs but I don't need anymore headroom so I'm good.

Haha, it's full circle/grass is always greener thing. People going to sealed, then to ported, then to horns, and then a guy with horns (Rob) goes to full range no subs, etc.
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post #22466 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:08 AM
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I think if I were on a suspended floor like Rob I too would not need subs ever. Also don't forget he has 3 and I have 2.
I'm sure room setups greatly affect things like you mention carp. Rob has three and is in a sealed room on a suspended floor, you can Nate are running two 215's on concrete floors and from the sounds of things Nates room is large and open.
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post #22467 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:13 AM
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.

Haha, it's full circle/grass is always greener thing. People going to sealed, then to ported, then to horns, and then a guy with horns (Rob) goes to full range no subs, etc.

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post #22468 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 11:29 AM
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I'm sure room setups greatly affect things like you mention carp. Rob has three and is in a sealed room on a suspended floor, you can Nate are running two 215's on concrete floors and from the sounds of things Nates room is large and open.

Suspended floors are an experience unto itself.......I have beefiest TJI's available 16 OC with 3000 lbs of sand on front stage and still floor deflection on heavy bass scenes are darn right scary!

Who needs buttkickers.....
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post #22469 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Boy, you two have me thinking. Get the 215s and ditch the dual S2 subs and 212s. My eyes tell me no way the 215s can keep up with dual S2s or dual OS but it sure sounds like some of the die hards on this forum say the 215 are sub like if you feed them enough juice. I love trying new stuff and this has me wondering
Although I still haven't setup my 215's yet. Because work is killing me (at work right now! Lol). I wouldn't even think of getting rid of my S2's. I'd add more subs to the mix. But would never get rid of them.. On a side note, I did manage to hang one of my slanted 8's late last night after work. Looks friggin awsome. Ok, 3 more s8's and 3 mor 215's to go.. Lol..

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I've done that demo scene with a local guy and bottomed out both 215's easily at reference with my house curve when playing them full range.... I can't figure out how you and carp can watch movies with just them and watch at reference with house curve with stuff like that. Mine are begging for mercy at reference. I guess the fact that my room is not sealed must be the difference because I'm always reading these types of posts and wondering WTF? lol

Man I wish I had a sealed room!


On another note, I also gotta say it's a good thing Nick is bringing back the HST, they looked to preform very well, although personally they are the ugliest drive thats ever been made LOL It's all personal preference but the 24's look awesome ( minus the cheezy black ring around the basket) and the surrounds on HST are so far beyond awful lol. The regular SI18 looks much better. Although I think my favorite looking driver is the new UM18.... thats one sexy driver!
Yea, those 24's looks crazy! How the hell will the wife were did those come from? Lol!
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post #22470 of 31063 Old 08-23-2014, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
Boy, you two have me thinking. Get the 215s and ditch the dual S2 subs and 212s. My eyes tell me no way the 215s can keep up with dual S2s or dual OS but it sure sounds like some of the die hards on this forum say the 215 are sub like if you feed them enough juice. I love trying new stuff and this has me wondering
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublewing11 View Post
Suspended floors are an experience unto itself.......I have beefiest TJI's available 16 OC with 3000 lbs of sand on front stage and still floor deflection on heavy bass scenes are darn right scary!

Who needs buttkickers.....
My second floor is also built with TJI's. With 1-1/8" panel vs 3/4 standard..
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