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rcohen's Avatar rcohen 04:07 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
I have had this exact same experience. I had one guy set to do everything from A to Z, and then I started mentioning some of the equipment I was wanting to get and he started balking. I told him I am find getting some equipment through him if it was stuff I wanted and if his price was in line with others, and he seemed to get back on board, but his communication has been pretty off and on since then. He wants $2800 (7% of the project budget - though the budget should be a lot lower since some of the stuff I wouldn't get from him) up front for the design and specification which is non-refundable and would go to the overall project cost. It'd be great to be able to hire one guy and not have to worry about it, but with his attitude, I'm not sure I'm wanting to work with him. So, with his lackluster communication lately, I've been using my time to get estimates from contractor's for the various parts of work. Unfortunately, most of them haven't given me very much confidence in their understanding of home theaters and what is involved. And so far, their prices haven't been all that great for what they're proposing to do. I'm still not sure it would even be cheaper than hiring the one guy to do it all. Some of the other installers I have reached out to and said I'm looking for construction guys and going to get my equipment on my own, but that I might still ask for their help with some sort of control system, and a couple seem okay with that. It's a pain though having to meet people at the house several times a week and going over the same things to get all these estimates and then having to coordinate everyone. I'd have to get a design probably from Nyal or Dennis, and then coordinate the construction guys, electrical guys, hvac guys, av guys, maybe the carpet guys too depending on how much the construction contractor covers. It's frustrating.
Exactly. I get the feeling that their whole business model is driven by margins on acoustic treatment, expensive equipment, etc.

On the other hand, I'm nervous about going with people without home theater experience and messing things up or wasting money on rookie mistakes.

It would be refreshing for someone to say, I need $x for this to be worth my time, and I'll work with you on the rest to give you good results for a good value. Instead, they just say, "no." I guess they have other clients with deeper pockets.

$2800 for a nice interior design and expert plans would be very reasonable, if it was well done, and in enough detail so that a contractor could do the rest. If you find something like that, let me know.

Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 04:25 PM 09-12-2014
@rcohen what are your thoughts on the 212's at this point?
lbrown105's Avatar lbrown105 04:53 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Exactly. I get the feeling that their whole business model is driven by margins on acoustic treatment, expensive equipment, etc.

On the other hand, I'm nervous about going with people without home theater experience and messing things up or wasting money on rookie mistakes.

It would be refreshing for someone to say, I need $x for this to be worth my time, and I'll work with you on the rest to give you good results for a good value. Instead, they just say, "no." I guess they have other clients with deeper pockets.

$2800 for a nice interior design and expert plans would be very reasonable, if it was well done, and in enough detail so that a contractor could do the rest. If you find something like that, let me know.
I appreciate your concern about having someone work on the project without HT experience. Even when I just replaced my drop ceiling I ended up doing all of the wiring, hat and whisper clips so that when the contractor came in to put up the OSB and DW all I had to do was give the spec on how many screws per board were required with a system like that and they did what the do best which was hammer it out in lightning speed and excellent quality including the taping. So it took me a month ( I like most have a day job!) to get the hat channel, clips, wiring and electrical changes in place and the room still looked so awful but in one day they had the place ready to tape. This was just the ceiling and I think you have the entire project in front of you. Best of luck, good contractors are hard to find.
rcohen's Avatar rcohen 05:19 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
@rcohen what are your thoughts on the 212's at this point?
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
lbrown105's Avatar lbrown105 05:31 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Well good news is my crackling is not caused by Audyssey. And hopefully will go away with the new amp.
that is good. I was talking with Jeff yesterday and he was asking how you are coming along. I told him as soon as you get the new amp set up you should be good to go. Did you get the nano avr yet?


then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
rcohen's Avatar rcohen 05:42 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
What was your conclusion?

I have a couple 400 watt options sitting around I'm anxious to compare:
3x Hypex NC400 mono kits
Parasound A51

Not sure if I'd be better off with monster amps, or if it matters.
Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 06:18 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
Ha! Glad to hear it.
ChldsPlay's Avatar ChldsPlay 07:03 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Exactly. I get the feeling that their whole business model is driven by margins on acoustic treatment, expensive equipment, etc.

On the other hand, I'm nervous about going with people without home theater experience and messing things up or wasting money on rookie mistakes.

It would be refreshing for someone to say, I need $x for this to be worth my time, and I'll work with you on the rest to give you good results for a good value. Instead, they just say, "no." I guess they have other clients with deeper pockets.

$2800 for a nice interior design and expert plans would be very reasonable, if it was well done, and in enough detail so that a contractor could do the rest. If you find something like that, let me know.
Yeah, I think they must get quite a bit of margin off equipment. I'm fine with letting them do acoustic treatment too, because I really don't want to deal with all of that. I've been looking at it a lot more lately to figure out a "look" I want that incorporates treatments. I think I have an idea in my head that will look pretty good, now I just need to figure out how to do it, or find someone who will do it for me. I'm waiting on a couple of numbers from some guys on construction (including my gf's cousin) and then I'll make my decision. Despite issues with the one guy's attitude, the idea of just being done making decisions and trying to figure things out and getting started sounds great to me. Of course, I do wonder how he'll react if I tell him I have JTR speakers now. Speakers was probably our biggest headbutt before when I was looking at the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 In-walls, and he was trying to lead me towards Tru Audio. I think he was resigned to the fact that I wasn't getting speakers through him, because I was getting the Klipsch at a lot lower price than he had them. I still may get surrounds from them if he can get the Klipsch Pro cinemas though. He used to be a member here many years ago (last post was 2006 I think) and his personal theater garnered a lot of attention because of the theme. I did send him pictures of some theaters I liked and he said he liked them and that he thought we could get something similar with my budget. We'll see.
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 07:14 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
What was your conclusion?

I have a couple 400 watt options sitting around I'm anxious to compare:
3x Hypex NC400 mono kits
Parasound A51

Not sure if I'd be better off with monster amps, or if it matters.
If you are running the 212s like me, they are super efficient. I run a Parasound A51 and it doesn't even break a sweat..ever...not even close. Now the 215s are a different animal and would benefit from more juice than the A51s can provide if you start going to or above reference. The 212s can hit reference on under 10 watts..the 215s start needing 500 watts plus when you start hitting reference and above and a running full range.
SOWK's Avatar SOWK 07:17 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
that is good. I was talking with Jeff yesterday and he was asking how you are coming along. I told him as soon as you get the new amp set up you should be good to go. Did you get the nano avr yet?


then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
It might be more then 2000 watts actually as they are 1500 Watts into 8 ohms. So it may be more like 2500 Watts into 4 ohm.

And yes I have the nanoAVR
rcohen's Avatar rcohen 07:32 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Yeah, I think they must get quite a bit of margin off equipment. I'm fine with letting them do acoustic treatment too, because I really don't want to deal with all of that. I've been looking at it a lot more lately to figure out a "look" I want that incorporates treatments. I think I have an idea in my head that will look pretty good, now I just need to figure out how to do it, or find someone who will do it for me. I'm waiting on a couple of numbers from some guys on construction (including my gf's cousin) and then I'll make my decision. Despite issues with the one guy's attitude, the idea of just being done making decisions and trying to figure things out and getting started sounds great to me. Of course, I do wonder how he'll react if I tell him I have JTR speakers now. Speakers was probably our biggest headbutt before when I was looking at the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 In-walls, and he was trying to lead me towards Tru Audio. I think he was resigned to the fact that I wasn't getting speakers through him, because I was getting the Klipsch at a lot lower price than he had them. I still may get surrounds from them if he can get the Klipsch Pro cinemas though. He used to be a member here many years ago (last post was 2006 I think) and his personal theater garnered a lot of attention because of the theme. I did send him pictures of some theaters I liked and he said he liked them and that he thought we could get something similar with my budget. We'll see.
I think acoustic treatments is a huge margin item for them. Like I said, I don't mind them making money, but I have a problem with the hidden profits and hidden agenda with expensive product recommendations. I suspect experience building theaters has real value, though.
BamaDave's Avatar BamaDave 08:04 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Ok, spill the beans. Watchya got in there?

I also purchased the three stands as well to support the trio!
BamaDave's Avatar BamaDave 08:14 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I think acoustic treatments is a huge margin item for them. Like I said, I don't mind them making money, but I have a problem with the hidden profits and hidden agenda with expensive product recommendations. I suspect experience building theaters has real value, though.

I'm in total agreement with this! Funny though I was asking for professional assistance as I'm planning on doing a full acoustic treatment to my HT and he basically bashed my previous bipolar speaker setup which drew me to the JTR line. I believe in soliciting a professional acousticians opinion before developing a plan to build/purchase the needed treatments.
rcohen's Avatar rcohen 08:45 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaDave View Post
I'm in total agreement with this! Funny though I was asking for professional assistance as I'm planning on doing a full acoustic treatment to my HT and he basically bashed my previous bipolar speaker setup which drew me to the JTR line. I believe in soliciting a professional acousticians opinion before developing a plan to build/purchase the needed treatments.
No surprise that lots of JTR fans feel this way, since they only sell direct.

I read somewhere that some of the acoustic treatment companies will give you pro advice on acoustic treatment.

I wonder if dialing in fancy "acoustic lens" treatment is less of an issue, though, if you go with main speakers with constant directivity horns and monopole surrounds. Maybe dialing in the right diffusion ratio is less of an issue, and you just need enough absorption. Room modes are still tricky, but the REW room sim seems to work great for that.

You can buy raw materials for good absorption for practically nothing.
Reefdvr27's Avatar Reefdvr27 09:26 PM 09-12-2014
Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
Attached: DSCF2193.jpg (120.1 KB) 
BamaDave's Avatar BamaDave 09:29 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
No surprise that lots of JTR fans feel this way, since they only sell direct.

I read somewhere that some of the acoustic treatment companies will give you pro advice on acoustic treatment.

I wonder if dialing in fancy "acoustic lens" treatment is less of an issue, though, if you go with main speakers with constant directivity horns and monopole surrounds. Maybe dialing in the right diffusion ratio is less of an issue, and you just need enough absorption. Room modes are still tricky, but the REW room sim seems to work great for that.

You can buy raw materials for good absorption for practically nothing.



I have been looking into this for sometime. I have friends that think I'm nuts for selling my previous speaker setup but after doing some research I'm convinced it was the appropriate move. Besides I have the bosses approval thus far. Anyway I started looking into the room treatment thing by reviewing this YouTube presentation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DraA yF5ksbkk&app=desktop


After additional reading I gained advice from GIK which appear to be topnotch folks, not to say there aren't others but these are the folks I'm leaning towards purchasing the panels I need.


http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/
Reefdvr27's Avatar Reefdvr27 09:33 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by BamaDave View Post
I have been looking into this for sometime. I have friends that think I'm nuts for selling my previous speaker setup but after doing some research I'm convinced it was the appropriate move. Besides I have the bosses approval thus far. Anyway I started looking into the room treatment thing by reviewing this YouTube presentation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DraA yF5ksbkk&app=desktop


After additional reading I gained advice from GIK which appear to be topnotch folks, not to say there aren't others but these are the folks I'm leaning towards purchasing the panels I need.


http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/
Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
Reefdvr27's Avatar Reefdvr27 09:47 PM 09-12-2014
I know I have heard some guys looking for a new BD player. This may be the one. I am interested.

Pioneer Elite BDP-85FD and BDP-88FD Blu-ray Players at CEDIA 2014
Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 09:54 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
Very true. But no way I have the time to construct panels that would look professionally done. I just ordered from GIK . Corner bass traps and some front wall treatments to get ready for the new speaks. I think I will add a couple panels to cover the contralateral first reflections, but held off since I might do art panels for those. Definitely doable as DIY though, I have no doubt about that.
BamaDave's Avatar BamaDave 09:55 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.

From what I understand you need a mixture of absorption and diffusion and yes the traps and absorption panels can be made on the cheap in comparison but the diffusion panels are a different animal.
Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 10:21 PM 09-12-2014
The amount of treatments, and even the need for them above schroeder at all, isn't entirely clear.

What is clear is that those that sell treatments generally believe you can't have too many .
jlpowell84's Avatar jlpowell84 10:29 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Ha! Glad to hear it.
Lol very nice! Except we know who "cooked" these speakers
Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 10:34 PM 09-12-2014
They were only used for church music on Sundays .
raynist's Avatar raynist 10:45 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
They look a little brown in that picture. Is there anything on the tags that states they are black? They look really nice though. I have couches that look the same color. In a dimly lit room you would swear they are black but in bright light they are very dark brown.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 11:28 PM 09-12-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
I found a place in Canada that sells them for so cheap its not even worth building them. I bought really nice 2'x4'x3.5" think panels for $50ea. they are really 3" thick but have a 1/2" air gap in them which is also really nice. Plus they did a bunch of custom sizes for me. Anyone located in Canada should definitely take a look at what they have to offer!


The panels shipped today and I should have them around Wednesday.
popalock's Avatar popalock 12:51 AM 09-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I found a place in Canada that sells them for so cheap its not even worth building them. I bought really nice 2'x4'x3.5" think panels for $50ea. they are really 3" thick but have a 1/2" air gap in them which is also really nice. Plus they did a bunch of custom sizes for me. Anyone located in Canada should definitely take a look at what they have to offer!


The panels shipped today and I should have them around Wednesday.
Link? Company name?
rcohen's Avatar rcohen 12:53 AM 09-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
You could ask them to send you black and brown sample squares to be sure.
jbrown15's Avatar jbrown15 01:02 AM 09-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Link? Company name?
Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


http://www.waveacoustic.com/
With the US dollar being 10cents stronger if anyone can get a good deal on cross border shipping these panels would be a really good deal.


I'm going to be running 3.5" thick panels on my side walls at my first reflection points and same for my ceiling, and then I have three 4.5" think panels for the back of the room. One large one in between the two rear columns at the back of the room and then one on either side of the back row of seats.


I was planning on ordering a bunch of these black diffusers from Acoustic Frontiers to put on the ceiling above the first & second row of seats.



They look pretty good for $85ea and forum member doublewing seems to be really happy with them in his room.
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/A...fuser-DC2.html
Attached: Diffuser.jpg (135.4 KB) 
Gooddoc's Avatar Gooddoc 04:54 AM 09-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


[URL]http://www.waveacoustic.com/[/URL
I admit those prices sound very tempting. But their website throws up multiple flags for me. I will wait to see how your experience is first .
Frohlich's Avatar Frohlich 06:26 AM 09-13-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


http://www.waveacoustic.com/
With the US dollar being 10cents stronger if anyone can get a good deal on cross border shipping these panels would be a really good deal.


I'm going to be running 3.5" thick panels on my side walls at my first reflection points and same for my ceiling, and then I have three 4.5" think panels for the back of the room. One large one in between the two rear columns at the back of the room and then one on either side of the back row of seats.


I was planning on ordering a bunch of these black diffusers from Acoustic Frontiers to put on the ceiling above the first & second row of seats.



They look pretty good for $85ea and forum member doublewing seems to be really happy with them in his room.
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/A...fuser-DC2.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I admit those prices sound very tempting. But their website throws up multiple flags for me. I will wait to see how your experience is first .
I have those diffuser panels in my room. They are made by Vicoustics (http://vicousticusa.com) . Acoustic frontiers is just the store selling the product. You can buy the panels directly from Vicoustics or from other vendors such as lunchboxaudio (which is where I bought them from last year). Here is what they look like in my room integrated with other Vicoustic panels for absorption and diffusion.


Tags: 228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
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