Official JTR speaker thread - Page 772 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #23131 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Exactly. I get the feeling that their whole business model is driven by margins on acoustic treatment, expensive equipment, etc.

On the other hand, I'm nervous about going with people without home theater experience and messing things up or wasting money on rookie mistakes.

It would be refreshing for someone to say, I need $x for this to be worth my time, and I'll work with you on the rest to give you good results for a good value. Instead, they just say, "no." I guess they have other clients with deeper pockets.

$2800 for a nice interior design and expert plans would be very reasonable, if it was well done, and in enough detail so that a contractor could do the rest. If you find something like that, let me know.
I appreciate your concern about having someone work on the project without HT experience. Even when I just replaced my drop ceiling I ended up doing all of the wiring, hat and whisper clips so that when the contractor came in to put up the OSB and DW all I had to do was give the spec on how many screws per board were required with a system like that and they did what the do best which was hammer it out in lightning speed and excellent quality including the taping. So it took me a month ( I like most have a day job!) to get the hat channel, clips, wiring and electrical changes in place and the room still looked so awful but in one day they had the place ready to tape. This was just the ceiling and I think you have the entire project in front of you. Best of luck, good contractors are hard to find.

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post #23132 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
@rcohen what are your thoughts on the 212's at this point?
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
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post #23133 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Well good news is my crackling is not caused by Audyssey. And hopefully will go away with the new amp.
that is good. I was talking with Jeff yesterday and he was asking how you are coming along. I told him as soon as you get the new amp set up you should be good to go. Did you get the nano avr yet?


then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
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post #23134 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 04:42 PM
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then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
What was your conclusion?

I have a couple 400 watt options sitting around I'm anxious to compare:
3x Hypex NC400 mono kits
Parasound A51

Not sure if I'd be better off with monster amps, or if it matters.
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post #23135 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
Ha! Glad to hear it.
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post #23136 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Exactly. I get the feeling that their whole business model is driven by margins on acoustic treatment, expensive equipment, etc.

On the other hand, I'm nervous about going with people without home theater experience and messing things up or wasting money on rookie mistakes.

It would be refreshing for someone to say, I need $x for this to be worth my time, and I'll work with you on the rest to give you good results for a good value. Instead, they just say, "no." I guess they have other clients with deeper pockets.

$2800 for a nice interior design and expert plans would be very reasonable, if it was well done, and in enough detail so that a contractor could do the rest. If you find something like that, let me know.
Yeah, I think they must get quite a bit of margin off equipment. I'm fine with letting them do acoustic treatment too, because I really don't want to deal with all of that. I've been looking at it a lot more lately to figure out a "look" I want that incorporates treatments. I think I have an idea in my head that will look pretty good, now I just need to figure out how to do it, or find someone who will do it for me. I'm waiting on a couple of numbers from some guys on construction (including my gf's cousin) and then I'll make my decision. Despite issues with the one guy's attitude, the idea of just being done making decisions and trying to figure things out and getting started sounds great to me. Of course, I do wonder how he'll react if I tell him I have JTR speakers now. Speakers was probably our biggest headbutt before when I was looking at the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 In-walls, and he was trying to lead me towards Tru Audio. I think he was resigned to the fact that I wasn't getting speakers through him, because I was getting the Klipsch at a lot lower price than he had them. I still may get surrounds from them if he can get the Klipsch Pro cinemas though. He used to be a member here many years ago (last post was 2006 I think) and his personal theater garnered a lot of attention because of the theme. I did send him pictures of some theaters I liked and he said he liked them and that he thought we could get something similar with my budget. We'll see.

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post #23137 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
What was your conclusion?

I have a couple 400 watt options sitting around I'm anxious to compare:
3x Hypex NC400 mono kits
Parasound A51

Not sure if I'd be better off with monster amps, or if it matters.
If you are running the 212s like me, they are super efficient. I run a Parasound A51 and it doesn't even break a sweat..ever...not even close. Now the 215s are a different animal and would benefit from more juice than the A51s can provide if you start going to or above reference. The 212s can hit reference on under 10 watts..the 215s start needing 500 watts plus when you start hitting reference and above and a running full range.
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post #23138 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
that is good. I was talking with Jeff yesterday and he was asking how you are coming along. I told him as soon as you get the new amp set up you should be good to go. Did you get the nano avr yet?


then we proceeded to talk about the big amps and what they bring to the table for JTR speakers especially the RT's. It will be great hearing the 215rt with 2000 watts each!
It might be more then 2000 watts actually as they are 1500 Watts into 8 ohms. So it may be more like 2500 Watts into 4 ohm.

And yes I have the nanoAVR
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post #23139 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ChldsPlay View Post
Yeah, I think they must get quite a bit of margin off equipment. I'm fine with letting them do acoustic treatment too, because I really don't want to deal with all of that. I've been looking at it a lot more lately to figure out a "look" I want that incorporates treatments. I think I have an idea in my head that will look pretty good, now I just need to figure out how to do it, or find someone who will do it for me. I'm waiting on a couple of numbers from some guys on construction (including my gf's cousin) and then I'll make my decision. Despite issues with the one guy's attitude, the idea of just being done making decisions and trying to figure things out and getting started sounds great to me. Of course, I do wonder how he'll react if I tell him I have JTR speakers now. Speakers was probably our biggest headbutt before when I was looking at the Klipsch THX Ultra 2 In-walls, and he was trying to lead me towards Tru Audio. I think he was resigned to the fact that I wasn't getting speakers through him, because I was getting the Klipsch at a lot lower price than he had them. I still may get surrounds from them if he can get the Klipsch Pro cinemas though. He used to be a member here many years ago (last post was 2006 I think) and his personal theater garnered a lot of attention because of the theme. I did send him pictures of some theaters I liked and he said he liked them and that he thought we could get something similar with my budget. We'll see.
I think acoustic treatments is a huge margin item for them. Like I said, I don't mind them making money, but I have a problem with the hidden profits and hidden agenda with expensive product recommendations. I suspect experience building theaters has real value, though.
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post #23140 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 07:04 PM
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Ok, spill the beans. Watchya got in there?

I also purchased the three stands as well to support the trio!
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post #23141 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 07:14 PM
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I think acoustic treatments is a huge margin item for them. Like I said, I don't mind them making money, but I have a problem with the hidden profits and hidden agenda with expensive product recommendations. I suspect experience building theaters has real value, though.

I'm in total agreement with this! Funny though I was asking for professional assistance as I'm planning on doing a full acoustic treatment to my HT and he basically bashed my previous bipolar speaker setup which drew me to the JTR line. I believe in soliciting a professional acousticians opinion before developing a plan to build/purchase the needed treatments.
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post #23142 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 07:45 PM
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I'm in total agreement with this! Funny though I was asking for professional assistance as I'm planning on doing a full acoustic treatment to my HT and he basically bashed my previous bipolar speaker setup which drew me to the JTR line. I believe in soliciting a professional acousticians opinion before developing a plan to build/purchase the needed treatments.
No surprise that lots of JTR fans feel this way, since they only sell direct.

I read somewhere that some of the acoustic treatment companies will give you pro advice on acoustic treatment.

I wonder if dialing in fancy "acoustic lens" treatment is less of an issue, though, if you go with main speakers with constant directivity horns and monopole surrounds. Maybe dialing in the right diffusion ratio is less of an issue, and you just need enough absorption. Room modes are still tricky, but the REW room sim seems to work great for that.

You can buy raw materials for good absorption for practically nothing.
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post #23143 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:26 PM
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Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
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post #23144 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:29 PM
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No surprise that lots of JTR fans feel this way, since they only sell direct.

I read somewhere that some of the acoustic treatment companies will give you pro advice on acoustic treatment.

I wonder if dialing in fancy "acoustic lens" treatment is less of an issue, though, if you go with main speakers with constant directivity horns and monopole surrounds. Maybe dialing in the right diffusion ratio is less of an issue, and you just need enough absorption. Room modes are still tricky, but the REW room sim seems to work great for that.

You can buy raw materials for good absorption for practically nothing.



I have been looking into this for sometime. I have friends that think I'm nuts for selling my previous speaker setup but after doing some research I'm convinced it was the appropriate move. Besides I have the bosses approval thus far. Anyway I started looking into the room treatment thing by reviewing this YouTube presentation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DraA yF5ksbkk&app=desktop


After additional reading I gained advice from GIK which appear to be topnotch folks, not to say there aren't others but these are the folks I'm leaning towards purchasing the panels I need.


http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/
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post #23145 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:33 PM
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I have been looking into this for sometime. I have friends that think I'm nuts for selling my previous speaker setup but after doing some research I'm convinced it was the appropriate move. Besides I have the bosses approval thus far. Anyway I started looking into the room treatment thing by reviewing this YouTube presentation:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raAyF5ksbkk&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DraA yF5ksbkk&app=desktop


After additional reading I gained advice from GIK which appear to be topnotch folks, not to say there aren't others but these are the folks I'm leaning towards purchasing the panels I need.


http://www.gikacoustics.com/acoustic-advice/
Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
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post #23146 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:47 PM
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I know I have heard some guys looking for a new BD player. This may be the one. I am interested.

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post #23147 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:54 PM
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Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
Very true. But no way I have the time to construct panels that would look professionally done. I just ordered from GIK . Corner bass traps and some front wall treatments to get ready for the new speaks. I think I will add a couple panels to cover the contralateral first reflections, but held off since I might do art panels for those. Definitely doable as DIY though, I have no doubt about that.
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post #23148 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 08:55 PM
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Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.

From what I understand you need a mixture of absorption and diffusion and yes the traps and absorption panels can be made on the cheap in comparison but the diffusion panels are a different animal.
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post #23149 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 09:21 PM
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The amount of treatments, and even the need for them above schroeder at all, isn't entirely clear.

What is clear is that those that sell treatments generally believe you can't have too many .
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post #23150 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Unfortunately, I haven't had a chance to spend much time with them, yet, or run room EQ, but my initial impression went something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YG4...utu.be&t=1m21s
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Ha! Glad to hear it.
Lol very nice! Except we know who "cooked" these speakers

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post #23151 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 09:34 PM
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They were only used for church music on Sundays .
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Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
They look a little brown in that picture. Is there anything on the tags that states they are black? They look really nice though. I have couches that look the same color. In a dimly lit room you would swear they are black but in bright light they are very dark brown.
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post #23153 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 10:28 PM
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Do you know you are writing in black? Anyway, panels are pretty easy to make, just takes time. You could build your own for a 1/4 of the price.
I found a place in Canada that sells them for so cheap its not even worth building them. I bought really nice 2'x4'x3.5" think panels for $50ea. they are really 3" thick but have a 1/2" air gap in them which is also really nice. Plus they did a bunch of custom sizes for me. Anyone located in Canada should definitely take a look at what they have to offer!


The panels shipped today and I should have them around Wednesday.
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post #23154 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 11:51 PM
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I found a place in Canada that sells them for so cheap its not even worth building them. I bought really nice 2'x4'x3.5" think panels for $50ea. they are really 3" thick but have a 1/2" air gap in them which is also really nice. Plus they did a bunch of custom sizes for me. Anyone located in Canada should definitely take a look at what they have to offer!


The panels shipped today and I should have them around Wednesday.
Link? Company name?
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post #23155 of 29355 Old 09-12-2014, 11:53 PM
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Well me and the wife just got done lugging a few big theater chairs in the room and I fully believe that the chairs are brown. I ordered three black and I swear they are brown. However sometimes they do look black to me and my wife swears they black and thinks I have lost it. We have been at this for an hour. If I look into the room from the other room they are black, but when I get close, they are brown. They also appear to have brown stitching. It would only make sense that they are brown so I have to ship them back and do it all over again. I mean why would I order black chairs and get black chairs????? I am praying in the morning when the room is lit up that they are black. I will say they are comfy, this was a blind buy and it worked. That is if they are the right color. They are the Lane 103's
You could ask them to send you black and brown sample squares to be sure.
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post #23156 of 29355 Old 09-13-2014, 12:02 AM
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Link? Company name?
Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


http://www.waveacoustic.com/
With the US dollar being 10cents stronger if anyone can get a good deal on cross border shipping these panels would be a really good deal.


I'm going to be running 3.5" thick panels on my side walls at my first reflection points and same for my ceiling, and then I have three 4.5" think panels for the back of the room. One large one in between the two rear columns at the back of the room and then one on either side of the back row of seats.


I was planning on ordering a bunch of these black diffusers from Acoustic Frontiers to put on the ceiling above the first & second row of seats.



They look pretty good for $85ea and forum member doublewing seems to be really happy with them in his room.
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/A...fuser-DC2.html
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post #23157 of 29355 Old 09-13-2014, 03:54 AM
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Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


[URL]http://www.waveacoustic.com/[/URL
I admit those prices sound very tempting. But their website throws up multiple flags for me. I will wait to see how your experience is first .
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post #23158 of 29355 Old 09-13-2014, 05:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Just because I found them doesn't mean I want to share who they're from!....lol


http://www.waveacoustic.com/
With the US dollar being 10cents stronger if anyone can get a good deal on cross border shipping these panels would be a really good deal.


I'm going to be running 3.5" thick panels on my side walls at my first reflection points and same for my ceiling, and then I have three 4.5" think panels for the back of the room. One large one in between the two rear columns at the back of the room and then one on either side of the back row of seats.


I was planning on ordering a bunch of these black diffusers from Acoustic Frontiers to put on the ceiling above the first & second row of seats.



They look pretty good for $85ea and forum member doublewing seems to be really happy with them in his room.
http://store.acousticfrontiers.com/A...fuser-DC2.html
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I admit those prices sound very tempting. But their website throws up multiple flags for me. I will wait to see how your experience is first .
I have those diffuser panels in my room. They are made by Vicoustics (http://vicousticusa.com) . Acoustic frontiers is just the store selling the product. You can buy the panels directly from Vicoustics or from other vendors such as lunchboxaudio (which is where I bought them from last year). Here is what they look like in my room integrated with other Vicoustic panels for absorption and diffusion.

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Last edited by Frohlich; 09-13-2014 at 05:32 AM.
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post #23159 of 29355 Old 09-13-2014, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
What was your conclusion?

I have a couple 400 watt options sitting around I'm anxious to compare:
3x Hypex NC400 mono kits
Parasound A51

Not sure if I'd be better off with monster amps, or if it matters.
the first conclusion was that the 215 really benefit from the extra power, but at listening levels I use the 212 will also benefit greatly. I asked him what he thought would be better amp for driving the 212 or 215, three Emotive XPR's (1750/ch) or the LG10k (2100/ch)? He told me he preferred the LG because of all the protection circuitry and the VHF (very high frequency limiter). He said at really loud levels it sounds very smooth. He should know with his experience in pro audio. I should be able to comment on this in about a week. Right now I am only running the Sunfire but it cannot keep up. Next week the LG should be hooked up.


You will hear many say with the efficiency they don't understand how you could use more power, but the fact is if you have a lot of room absorption and fast decay times, then louder SPL levels are not fatiguing like in a brighter room. The other thing is transient peaks take a lot more power than most thing. Even if 2 watts gets you to reference, a 20dB peak will require 200 watts! In my room the party is just getting started at reference. When we have parties (20 people in the room) we often go to +15dBFR, so yeah if you like to push these levels occasionally 2000 watts per channel can be needed. IF I only watched movies, I seriously would not need anything more than an AVR with 120watts/ch. I never watch a movie above reference (in fact really never above -5dB except for clips)
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Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
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Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #23160 of 29355 Old 09-13-2014, 06:15 AM
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AVS forum member Michaek&Klipsh posted this pic in the JTR Captivator thread (last page) and said they were from Vicoustic. I really like them but when I tried to finds them on the site I could not find them. Nyal at Acoustic Frontiers carries Vicoustic but was also not familiar these. Wish I could find these and also some different shapes like circles.



Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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