Official JTR speaker thread - Page 779 - AVS Forum
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post #23341 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I got it thanks.

I just got everything hooked up and doing some preliminary testing with the 215's and dear lord do they have bass In my small room they are just insane. However my AVR keeps shutting down going into protect mode. It is shutting down at low volumes. I have no idea where to start as it has never shut down before. No clip lights on the amp, what gives?
Do you mean no clip light on the Behringer? There's four front LEDS by the gain knobs, those are the clip lights. I'd be very surprised of you could get a inuke 6000 to clip powering the 215's. I have to push my subs to insane levels to get my clip light to flicker.
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post #23342 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 07:32 PM
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I'm using a 3000 for now. I just adjusted the watts. I also ran audyssey and fixed the mains to full range. Much better.
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post #23343 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 07:52 PM
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so I got the XMC-1 today and was able to hook up the LG10k. Of course I don't have much set up done yet or tuned in but what I can say is the set up has really low noise floor. Even with the LG at 35dB gain (I didn't even try other settings yet) the noise coming out of the 212's can be barely heard even when you ear is right up to the speaker! I think it was totally worth setting the dedicated power line for the amp. I am guessing on that gain setting reference is at about -20dB on the MV. Should be a fun weekend, in about 6hrs of REW work I think I will have it dialed in.

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post #23344 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Since you are using JRiver, you can use the Loopback and run REW through JRiver using JAVA output. Then use the Mix Channels DSP and copy the Left channel output to the Right channel. You can do Left + Sub, Center + Sub, Left + Right, or whatever combination you want.
Good to know. Thanks!


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post #23345 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Well, not in REW but you can in OM. I was curious as to why you might think the center is creating the 200hz drop though, but assume you meant sympathetic vibrations there?
No, I didn't do much testing with the center.
When I get a chance, I'll run more experiments and grab a bunch of measurements.
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post #23346 of 23370 Old Yesterday, 10:45 PM
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Well hooked up the 215s tonight and it was kind of my first official night in my first real audio room and loved it. I sat and fiddled with the Inuke dsp for a while and some things I get and some I don't. One thing I am finding I am having a hard time finding a happy place. I know for sure Audyssey is out, I shut it off early as the 215's IMO do not sound good with Audyssey. It even tried to slip back on tonight. I had noticed that the system sounded awful and sure enough Audyssey reinstated itself.

I am really having a love hate relationship right now with the 215's. I had some music going and they sounded great, then I went back to a bass demo disc and then my center content was hard to hear and I just could not boost it. Then I went back to music and it sounded muffled? My wife came in for a minute and she said it sounded muffled. One thing I noticed is I am getting a really bad hiss from the amp, it is actually worse than hiss, it more like a fuzz. I have to get rid of the hiss, it is really bad. I like what I hear from the 215's, but I really need to find a middle ground. I gotta ways to go to getting this stuff tuned and still have a ton of work to do on the room. Be busy for quite a few more days.

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post #23347 of 23370 Old Today, 04:51 AM
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Dumb question probably but wouldn't it far easier to set up a system with the 215RMs and separate subs and still get the same or maybe better audio quality? Would think it would be much easier to implement.
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post #23348 of 23370 Old Today, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Dumb question probably but wouldn't it far easier to set up a system with the 215RMs and separate subs and still get the same or maybe better audio quality? Would think it would be much easier to implement.
Sure, but the idea of the 215RT is to run full range for music.

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post #23349 of 23370 Old Today, 07:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Well hooked up the 215s tonight and it was kind of my first official night in my first real audio room and loved it. I sat and fiddled with the Inuke dsp for a while and some things I get and some I don't. One thing I am finding I am having a hard time finding a happy place. I know for sure Audyssey is out, I shut it off early as the 215's IMO do not sound good with Audyssey. It even tried to slip back on tonight. I had noticed that the system sounded awful and sure enough Audyssey reinstated itself.

I am really having a love hate relationship right now with the 215's. I had some music going and they sounded great, then I went back to a bass demo disc and then my center content was hard to hear and I just could not boost it. Then I went back to music and it sounded muffled? My wife came in for a minute and she said it sounded muffled. One thing I noticed is I am getting a really bad hiss from the amp, it is actually worse than hiss, it more like a fuzz. I have to get rid of the hiss, it is really bad. I like what I hear from the 215's, but I really need to find a middle ground. I gotta ways to go to getting this stuff tuned and still have a ton of work to do on the room. Be busy for quite a few more days.
Are you having a love hate with the 215's or parts of your signal chain? Going back to something that sounded good which now sounds awful sounds like some processing glitches. As far as the hiss see my post a couple back. A didcated line may be part of the equation. Its like a weakest link thing. Right now I am finding dedicated line on the LG is dead silent even at very high gain settings.

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post #23350 of 23370 Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Good thing I ran 4 dedicated 20 AMP circuits just for my audio when I was building the theater.


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post #23351 of 23370 Old Today, 07:38 AM
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with talk of all these 7-10K amps going around, my next theater will have its own power plant

People think I am crazy when I tell them I have 11500 watts in my room. You guys beat me with just one of your amps. Anyone ever calculate what it costs us to watch a movie, electricity wise ?

I used to keep telling myself it was cheaper to watch a movie at home then to goto theaters and pay for all that candy and popcorn. Stupid me, but I do know my feet dont stick to the floor and I never have someone 6'10" sitting in front of me. Still have all the noisy kids always talking during the movie, but as it turns out, they are mine
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post #23352 of 23370 Old Today, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Are you having a love hate with the 215's or parts of your signal chain? Going back to something that sounded good which now sounds awful sounds like some processing glitches. As far as the hiss see my post a couple back. A didcated line may be part of the equation. Its like a weakest link thing. Right now I am finding dedicated line on the LG is dead silent even at very high gain settings.
Yes, and that would be even more evident with the higher efficiency 212's.

I frankly don't understand how just running the 215's full range on an AVR gets it done. Although it's not rocket science, ideally (when using separates) the LFE is mixed into the left and right (or in my case LCR) channels post SSP and before the amp. In addition to the mixers, I'm using multiple LP and HP crossovers and PEQ to get the best results. Desertdome was able to accomplish the same via a rather complicated JRiver setup on my HTPC before SSP, but I found the Rane RPM88 much easier to use and understand due to the graphic display of the config with each of the modules adjustable in realtime.

I know that a discontinued $3K processor is not an ideal long term solution, but since I found mine on ebay for $400 it was a no brainer. I have said all along that the 215RT's are not for everyone but if you are a tweaker and have the tools, the full range results can be amazingly good.



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post #23353 of 23370 Old Today, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by drpete12 View Post
with talk of all these 7-10K amps going around, my next theater will have its own power plant

People think I am crazy when I tell them I have 11500 watts in my room. You guys beat me with just one of your amps. Anyone ever calculate what it costs us to watch a movie, electricity wise ?

I used to keep telling myself it was cheaper to watch a movie at home then to goto theaters and pay for all that candy and popcorn. Stupid me, but I do know my feet dont stick to the floor and I never have someone 6'10" sitting in front of me. Still have all the noisy kids always talking during the movie, but as it turns out, they are mine
I would imagine that the extra power use during a movie with my little LG FP10000Q and the pair of Crowns running the surrounds and the Rane processor would equal approx $.10-.15 per film to run. At idle, it would be more but I shut it all down after each use so really it's pretty green ...


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post #23354 of 23370 Old Today, 07:54 AM
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I still think Jeff is sand bagging with the 101 db sensitivity rating. The 212's measure so much higher than that compared to every speaker I've had in my room including 7 db's louder than the Danley sH50's and 11 db's louder than the 215's.
So true. I wonder what the actual efficiency of the 212s are? I have also compared to multiple speakers and it seems to be so much more efficient than the rated 101dB... if I had to guess, i would say closer to 106 dB

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Thanks and I think I will be happy as well because I don't even want to consider the alternative...that would suck. But I can't imagine it would be that way and this is a blind buy as I've not attended any GTG's but everyone here can't be wrong....right?????
Actually I bought mine blind as well. I just went thru the GTG threads and never actually attended any, though that would have been awesome.

So far, I haven't heard of anyone truly disappointed with their purchase of the 212s yet. Most were blown away...


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post #23355 of 23370 Old Today, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Are you having a love hate with the 215's or parts of your signal chain? Going back to something that sounded good which now sounds awful sounds like some processing glitches. As far as the hiss see my post a couple back. A didcated line may be part of the equation. Its like a weakest link thing. Right now I am finding dedicated line on the LG is dead silent even at very high gain settings.
The hiss is really bad. This is the first time that I have really used an amp with dsp for mains, so I am learning here. I have 3 dedicated 20amp lines in place. A friend of mine is a licenced electrician. I am going to have him come back and add a couple of more. Had I really planned better, I would have done my entire electric build totally different, live and learn. My next house and build will be a whole different story. Would an good extension cord be OK to use for an amp? I have other 20amp dedicated lines I can reach, but would need a cord to get to them. Would a cord add noise?

As far as the love hate, I meant that as I am having a hard time in the chain getting them to sound really good. I still need treatments done, but still, I cannot get them dialed in at all. They just sound muffled and something is holding them back. Audyssey really made them sound like s***! Once I shut the audy off, they cleaned up really nice. With my 212's, they always sound good and even out of the box. This is a whole different animal. I have a lot to learn.

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post #23356 of 23370 Old Today, 08:31 AM
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I have no idea what would be causing your issues, Dave. The 215's mid an upper section is very similar. True most have said a little more laid back, but definitely not muffled. Perhaps try them out with absolutely ZERO dsp in the inuke and go from there. make sure there are no filters set in place that shouldn't be there. a LPF at 1.2khz can make anything sound pretty muffled

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post #23357 of 23370 Old Today, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
The hiss is really bad. This is the first time that I have really used an amp with dsp for mains, so I am learning here. I have 3 dedicated 20amp lines in place. A friend of mine is a licenced electrician. I am going to have him come back and add a couple of more. Had I really planned better, I would have done my entire electric build totally different, live and learn. My next house and build will be a whole different story. Would an good extension cord be OK to use for an amp? I have other 20amp dedicated lines I can reach, but would need a cord to get to them. Would a cord add noise?

As far as the love hate, I meant that as I am having a hard time in the chain getting them to sound really good. I still need treatments done, but still, I cannot get them dialed in at all. They just sound muffled and something is holding them back. Audyssey really made them sound like s***! Once I shut the audy off, they cleaned up really nice. With my 212's, they always sound good and even out of the box. This is a whole different animal. I have a lot to learn.

I have no hiss with lot's of connections in the signal chain.
Sorry but I can't remember your setup. You're using RCA's out of your AVR as the pre? How high is the gain on the 3000? Check cables and try lowering the gain.


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post #23358 of 23370 Old Today, 08:45 AM
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Like others are saying, this doesn't sound like a speaker issue unless one or more drivers are actually damaged. As Beastaudio pointed out, the compression driver is the same so above 400HZ they should sound very similar (realizing it is a different cabinet and horn size). Can you hook up the 212s in that same room temporarlily so you can confirm or not confirm that it is the signal chain and not the speakers.


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post #23359 of 23370 Old Today, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Dumb question probably but wouldn't it far easier to set up a system with the 215RMs and separate subs and still get the same or maybe better audio quality? Would think it would be much easier to implement.
That was one of my considerations before I decided on 2 RT's. Easier too do...not sure. Going with RT's doesn't preclude you from using subs because (I think) I plan on adding subs at a later time but that could change once I hear the low end on them in my room with movies. One can never have enough woof....for movies though.

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post #23360 of 23370 Old Today, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
The hiss is really bad. This is the first time that I have really used an amp with dsp for mains, so I am learning here. I have 3 dedicated 20amp lines in place. A friend of mine is a licenced electrician. I am going to have him come back and add a couple of more. Had I really planned better, I would have done my entire electric build totally different, live and learn. My next house and build will be a whole different story. Would an good extension cord be OK to use for an amp? I have other 20amp dedicated lines I can reach, but would need a cord to get to them. Would a cord add noise?

As far as the love hate, I meant that as I am having a hard time in the chain getting them to sound really good. I still need treatments done, but still, I cannot get them dialed in at all. They just sound muffled and something is holding them back. Audyssey really made them sound like s***! Once I shut the audy off, they cleaned up really nice. With my 212's, they always sound good and even out of the box. This is a whole different animal. I have a lot to learn.
Reef,

I really hope you get your 215's sounding the way you had hoped. I think Frohlich's idea of hooking up your 212's is a great idea to see if the hiss is there and more importantly if they sound muffled. The hiss aside....I wonder how much of the hate portion of your relationship is due to the fact you are very familiar with the 212's and they are more sensitive than the 215's. Hmmmm...

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post #23361 of 23370 Old Today, 10:20 AM
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I would agree with everyone else in that Reefs issues sure dont sound like a speaker issue. Try dropping the inuke and see what they do. Mine are surley not muffled in anyway at all.
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Originally Posted by PeterK View Post
Dumb question probably but wouldn't it far easier to set up a system with the 215RMs and separate subs and still get the same or maybe better audio quality? Would think it would be much easier to implement.
IMO, somebody who is 80-100% movies would benefit much more going this route.

Had I known before hand, I would have tried three of the 215RM's instead of the 215RT/RM combo.

If you don't have adequate subs, then the RT's bring something special to the low end...
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post #23363 of 23370 Old Today, 10:56 AM
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Not a speaker issue. I turned the gain down on the crossover set up and the hiss faded out, but still there but much lighter. I plugged in the 6000dsp and a little bit of hiss also.

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post #23364 of 23370 Old Today, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I have no hiss with lot's of connections in the signal chain.
Sorry but I can't remember your setup. You're using RCA's out of your AVR as the pre? How high is the gain on the 3000? Check cables and try lowering the gain.
Yes, I am using RCA's from an AVR. I unplugged the pre outs and yet the hiss was still there. I am using speakons in the inuke as that is what they take.

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post #23365 of 23370 Old Today, 11:06 AM
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Reef,

Unhook everything input from the inukes. See if there is still hiss or hum. If so then it is the amp noise floor. If not, then you have a signal cable or ground issue. You have the 4520ci which is not grounded and iNuke amps which are. Ground your phono plug ground on the back of the AVR to the same ground your amps are hooked into.

Look at my build thread last page or two for similar issues I encountered and resolved with my Denon 4520 and iNukes.

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post #23366 of 23370 Old Today, 11:21 AM
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Reef,

Unhook everything input from the inukes. See if there is still hiss or hum. If so then it is the amp noise floor. If not, then you have a signal cable or ground issue. You have the 4520ci which is not grounded and iNuke amps which are. Ground your phono plug ground on the back of the AVR to the same ground your amps are hooked into.

Look at my build thread last page or two for similar issues I encountered and resolved with my Denon 4520 and iNukes.
Cool ! I will do that. But yes, I unplugged the XLR's and humidity hum hum.

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post #23367 of 23370 Old Today, 11:25 AM
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Hum is better than hiss. Hum is usually 60hz ground related.

My hum was bad on my iNukes. After the grounding trick no more hum at all.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #23368 of 23370 Old Today, 11:31 AM
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Post 455

Denon 4520ci to iNuke 6000 dsp hum fix

Archaea's multi-purpose Home Theater room
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"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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post #23369 of 23370 Old Today, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Well hooked up the 215s tonight and it was kind of my first official night in my first real audio room and loved it. I sat and fiddled with the Inuke dsp for a while and some things I get and some I don't. One thing I am finding I am having a hard time finding a happy place. I know for sure Audyssey is out, I shut it off early as the 215's IMO do not sound good with Audyssey. It even tried to slip back on tonight. I had noticed that the system sounded awful and sure enough Audyssey reinstated itself.

I am really having a love hate relationship right now with the 215's. I had some music going and they sounded great, then I went back to a bass demo disc and then my center content was hard to hear and I just could not boost it. Then I went back to music and it sounded muffled? My wife came in for a minute and she said it sounded muffled. One thing I noticed is I am getting a really bad hiss from the amp, it is actually worse than hiss, it more like a fuzz. I have to get rid of the hiss, it is really bad. I like what I hear from the 215's, but I really need to find a middle ground. I gotta ways to go to getting this stuff tuned and still have a ton of work to do on the room. Be busy for quite a few more days.
I get a nasty noise from both submersives and then I hooked up my Open DRC and quite as it can possibly be...If it only took away noise I would say it's still worth the money!

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

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My Setup Thread

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post #23370 of 23370 Old Today, 01:01 PM
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Dave - Try running them directly from the 4520. Do they sound fairly normal in that scenario?


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