Official JTR speaker thread - Page 783 - AVS Forum
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post #23461 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
That's what I figured. I had just previously seen it labeled as WotW, not WOW. I thought maybe Dave meant the Disney WOW disc and I was pretty concerned that he was using that for listening impressions....
Beast does that mean I have to stop using Kidz Bop for my listening impressions?

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post #23462 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Getting close to pulling the trigger on JTR 212ht s for LCR with dual cap s2s and s8s for surrounds....but getting cold feet because of the 60hz low end on the 212s.....

Should I go with the 210s? Thoughts?

Thanks!
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post #23463 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Getting close to pulling the trigger on JTR 212ht s for LCR with dual cap s2s and s8s for surrounds....but getting cold feet because of the 60hz low end on the 212s.....

Should I go with the 210s? Thoughts?

Thanks!
You'll have dual Cap S2's why on gods green earth would you be worried about your mains playing down to 60hz?.....lol
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post #23464 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Interesting Reef on a number of fronts. I think Coach would say the same as I, that the bass on the 215s was surprisingly easy to integrate with his 8 SI HT18 subs. So as others said, keep at it as it will be worth it. But this is also why I've said in the past that the 215 is likely not a plug and play solution for some (not all) rooms.

Interesting about your comment about soft dialog...Coach had the same comment and besides size is the other primary reason he probably chose the Cat12s over the 215s.
I feel the soft dialog comments that i have heard have nothing to actually do with that particular area of the freq response. My guess is often, people pop these bad boys in and start running their first ever full range stereo setup with a port tune that brings with it a gratuitous low end rising curve in the bass. You can't set levels right like this with an SPL meter as it won't be accurate. A dead flat bass response would do better, to get a decent idea of how hot you are running the bass, but inherently with a full range tower such as the 215, people will jump on the listening, and not realize they have such a serious rising response down low. This in and of itself will "drown out" the response further up in the vocal range. It is certainly a divergence from something like the 212 that you wont see the same rising response in the bottom octaves.

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Beast does that mean I have to stop using Kidz Bop for my listening impressions?
Dork
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post #23465 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Getting close to pulling the trigger on JTR 212ht s for LCR with dual cap s2s and s8s for surrounds....but getting cold feet because of the 60hz low end on the 212s.....

Should I go with the 210s? Thoughts?

Thanks!
I haven't heard the ported 212HT, I have the sealed 212HT-LPs so take this with a (huge) grain of salt. If you are worried if you will have enough midbass and lower midbass, I'd say the 212 is not the speaker for you unless you're going to add some midbass modules. This thread is full of people saying the 212 has plenty of midbass and others that say the 212 doesn't have enough midbass. I'm on the not enough midbass side for movies, music is just fine, but this is again preference and I don't know what your preference is but your comments about strong to 60 cause me concern regarding the 212. Best thing to do is listen for yourself.

I haven't heard or read much on the 210 but my issue with the 210 is the smaller horn design. So if you read about the huge soundstage on the 215s, a large part of this is the horn is bigger because the speakers are bigger. The 210, with the smaller horn size, MIGHT have a smaller soundstage. In comparing the 212 to the 215, the 215 definitely has a bigger soundstage...but it also has a larger horn design. Coincidence...I think not.

For me, I think the 215RM is the best speaker in the JTR lineup for movies when people have a strong sub system like you have.

Those are MY OPINIONS and there are plenty of others on this thread with completely different thoughts. My recommendation is for you to find a way to listen to the speakers before buying them.

David
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post #23466 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I haven't heard the ported 212HT, I have the sealed 212HT-LPs so take this with a (huge) grain of salt. If you are worried if you will have enough midbass and lower midbass, I'd say the 212 is not the speaker for you unless you're going to add some midbass modules. This thread is full of people saying the 212 has plenty of midbass and others that say the 212 doesn't have enough midbass. I'm on the not enough midbass side for movies, music is just fine, but this is again preference and I don't know what your preference is but your comments about strong to 60 cause me concern regarding the 212. Best thing to do is listen for yourself.

I haven't heard or read much on the 210 but my issue with the 210 is the smaller horn design. So if you read about the huge soundstage on the 215s, a large part of this is the horn is bigger because the speakers are bigger. The 210, with the smaller horn size, MIGHT have a smaller soundstage. In comparing the 212 to the 215, the 215 definitely has a bigger soundstage...but it also has a larger horn design. Coincidence...I think not.

For me, I think the 215RM is the best speaker in the JTR lineup for movies when people have a strong sub system like you have.

Those are MY OPINIONS and there are plenty of others on this thread with completely different thoughts. My recommendation is for you to find a way to listen to the speakers before buying them.

David
I appreciate the input. You called it: I'm worried about that mid-bass range... I refuse to buy speakers that require an additional mid-bass module....but on the flip side, the integration with the caps would most likely nullify the issue....
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post #23467 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
Dork
Man what a harsh crowd... guess I will stick with Dead Can Dance, Metallica and Bella Fleck and the Flecktones for critical listening.

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post #23468 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Quill View Post
I appreciate the input. You called it: I'm worried about that mid-bass range... I refuse to buy speakers that require an additional mid-bass module....but on the flip side, the integration with the caps would most likely nullify the issue....
The 212's don't "require" a midbass module. I think that is an overstatement. "Some might prefer" a midbass module is closer to the truth.
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post #23469 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
The 212's don't "require" a midbass module. I think that is an overstatement. "Some might prefer" a midbass module is closer to the truth.
agreed....


JTR's speakers are designed to have a flat frequency response. Some people may prefer more of a smiley face EQ type frequency response --- a lot of 'big' speakers are designed on that queue. That may be enjoyable, but it isn't accurate. Just because a speaker has two 12" drivers (212HT) doesn't mean it will sound like the bass knob is boosted to max. That throws quite few guys off around here.
IE







Flat frequency response is more of an accurate/neutral sound - then the user can EQ the speakers to their personal taste.




I'm not knocking the smiley face EQ. I like it - - - - - I also like my bass about 15dB hot for music and at least 6-8 dB hot for movies. Flat bass maybe accurate, but it isn't my pleasure.
So I promote the idea to buy a DSP to use with your amp, or a graphic equalizer like this if you have 212HT and with the vast headroom (mid 130dB available) - simply EQ to taste!

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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Last edited by Archaea; Yesterday at 06:38 PM.
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post #23470 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 07:01 PM
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Accuracy to what? I've shot weapons before so I know what type of sonic signature and impact they have. Now the question is, are Gatling guns and other midbass type impacts being recorded/leveled as they should be in the real world? I don't know the answer to that...but I know what the impact would be like in the the real world. I will say the Gatling gun scene in Book of Eli felt more true to life with the 215s and Cat12s compared to my 212 SEALED.

EDIT: what I'm trying to say is I do want sonic accuracy (with a little house curve) but there is some ambiguity if the original signal wasn't recorded true to life vs the speaker not reproducing the signal true to life.
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post #23471 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
I feel the soft dialog comments that i have heard have nothing to actually do with that particular area of the freq response. My guess is often, people pop these bad boys in and start running their first ever full range stereo setup with a port tune that brings with it a gratuitous low end rising curve in the bass. You can't set levels right like this with an SPL meter as it won't be accurate. A dead flat bass response would do better, to get a decent idea of how hot you are running the bass, but inherently with a full range tower such as the 215, people will jump on the listening, and not realize they have such a serious rising response down low. This in and of itself will "drown out" the response further up in the vocal range. It is certainly a divergence from something like the 212 that you wont see the same rising response in the bottom octaves.

+1.

@Reefdvr27 , I forget if you ever purchase a Omnimic or have REW up an running? It would be interesting to see what's going on in your new space.

Also, did you build your new space with room for bass trapping?

Wondering if you need to make taming the lowend energy a priority....?

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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Accuracy to what? I've shot weapons before so I know what type of sonic signature and impact they have. Now the question is, are Gatling guns and other midbass type impacts being recorded/leveled as they should be in the real world? I don't know the answer to that...but I know what the impact would be like in the the real world. I will say the Gatling gun scene in Book of Eli felt more true to life with the 215s and Cat12s compared to my 212 SEALED.

EDIT: what I'm trying to say is I do want sonic accuracy (with a little house curve) but there is some ambiguity if the original signal wasn't recorded true to life vs the speaker not reproducing the signal true to life.
But...have you ever flown in a chopper???

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post #23472 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 10:26 PM
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Mother F£€% Irene! Pop!
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post #23473 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
+1.

@Reefdvr27 , I forget if you ever purchase a Omnimic or have REW up an running? It would be interesting to see what's going on in your new space.

Also, did you build your new space with room for bass trapping?

Wondering if you need to make taming the lowend energy a priority....?



But...have you ever flown in a chopper???

#IRENE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good morning POP!

I have an Omnimic, but just have not gotten to it yet. I have had a busy day today with some construction. There was an error with something and I had to fix it. I have been at for about 10hours and have to finish tomorrow. All good now, but just an error by somebody that helped me with my build.

I actually sat down around midnight and got my amp and avr paired up and listened to some music for about an hour and half and I am just blown away. Everything I want in a speaker is packed into the 215. I still have to build some panels and get some other stuff done, but I can only imagine that it is only going to get better. One day at a time.


Speaking of choppers, a couple of weeks ago there was a chopper crash right down the street here in some guys yard. I think everybody is ok, the news said they were. I have not heard anything about it since. It was nuts around here for quite a few hours.

I have flown in a few choppers and flew in an executive chopper once and it was sweet. The pilot said you ready for the best roller coaster ride of you life and dropped it ! It was way to cool

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post #23474 of 23481 Old Yesterday, 11:57 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
But...have you ever flown in a chopper???

#IRENE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haha, I actually have a few times, including a Huey, but all I remember is that it was awesome but LOUD!!! Too bad I don't remember experiencing Irene.
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post #23475 of 23481 Old Today, 05:29 AM
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I've also noticed that Audyssey DynamicEQ can cause problems with dialog clarity. Try turning that off, doing whatever EQ with it off, and leaving it off.


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post #23476 of 23481 Old Today, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quill View Post
Getting close to pulling the trigger on JTR 212ht s for LCR with dual cap s2s and s8s for surrounds....but getting cold feet because of the 60hz low end on the 212s.....

Should I go with the 210s? Thoughts?

Thanks!
IMO, it mainly depends on where you intend to cross over between the mains and the subs. If you want to cross at 40-60hz, you need mains that can go full range. If you want to cross at 80-100hz, the 212hts should have you covered.

Aside from the capability of the speakers, the room dimensions are a major issue here.
http://www.soundandvision.com/conten...nd-tell-part-1

In my room, I get the best mid-bass by crossing over at 100hz and using multiple subs to tackle room modes.
For my closed, rectangular room, I find that the room simulator in REW is great at predicting room modes for different sub and main counts and placements.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...support-2.html


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post #23477 of 23481 Old Today, 05:43 AM
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That throws quite few guys off around here.
It certainly does complicate things when there is such a spectrum of tastes, rooms, and differences between recordings.

Keeps things interesting.


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post #23478 of 23481 Old Today, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
+1.

@Reefdvr27 , I forget if you ever purchase a Omnimic or have REW up an running? It would be interesting to see what's going on in your new space.

Also, did you build your new space with room for bass trapping?

Wondering if you need to make taming the lowend energy a priority....?



But...have you ever flown in a chopper???

#IRENE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
I've also noticed that Audyssey DynamicEQ can cause problems with dialog clarity. Try turning that off, doing whatever EQ with it off, and leaving it off.
I noticed that Audyssey throws things off. I have stopped using it, more so for 2channel music.

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post #23479 of 23481 Old Today, 07:44 AM
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I actually enjoy how this thread can be a little A.D.D. at times, keep things interesting. Plus it should really be called the JTR lifestyle thread, so basically JTR and things going on in the life of JTR owners!....lol


So in keeping with that theme I thought I'd show off the newest addition to my JTR family!






It's been a late night and I'm running on fumes! I was working late till around 1am this morning and didn't fall asleep till 1:30am, next this I know my wife's waking me up at 2:20 with contractions. We dropped off our kids at their grandparents, got to the hospital for 3:37am and my daughter was born at 5:03am..... EXHAUSTED..lol


Okay, sorry for that back to our regular viewing.
Congrats!
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post #23480 of 23481 Old Today, 11:34 AM
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Godzirra - for any of you that haven't watched this at home...get ready to give your subs a serious workout. Maybe the most intense sub movie I have seen . Get you orbit shifters, S2s, 215s ready, it's go time


My updated (2/2014)HT set-up


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post #23481 of 23481 Old Today, 11:41 AM
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Godzirra - for any of you that haven't watched this at home...get ready to give your subs a serious workout. Maybe the most intense sub movie I have seen . Get you orbit shifters, S2s, 215s ready, it's go time
I watched it on Friday night, 3 dB over reference with my +10dB house curve It was pretty decent SQ wise.... On par with Pacific Rim or maybe even better. When it was done, I was tired like I worked out for 2 hours LOL

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post #23482 of 23481 Old Today, 11:51 AM
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I thought Godzilla had a 30hz filter?


EDIT:


Made me curious - I looked it up on databass
http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...scussion-poll/


30 hz filter indeed. 30hz can be fun, but not as fun as 15-20hz! But hey, I haven't even watched the movie yet - so I'll reserve my opinion any further.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

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Last edited by Archaea; Today at 12:02 PM.
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