Official JTR speaker thread - Page 799 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #23941 of 23963 Old Today, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,052
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have only been able to get the 12's moving in the 212's one time, and that was outside at a gtg in a park with some local KC friends. We were using an inuke and were at absolutely crazy volume levels. It was really cool to be able to see those drivers moving for the first time!

I haven't played the 212's loud enough to get the drivers visibly moving in my room and I've been to +15 in here before.
I saw the 212HT move very slightly at the dlbeck meet where we were running them at +17dB. The 228HT's 8" drivers were rocking hard by comparison at +17dB, but they didn't falter.
All speakers powered by Cherry monoblocks.

AND IT WAS RIDICULOUSLY LOUD.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Archaea is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #23942 of 23963 Old Today, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audiovideoholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I found the CAT12's to be lacking midbass for my preference when I heard them, same as the sh50's and the 212's (though I knew what I was getting into getting the LP's vs the ported). I don't think I've ever heard a speaker thats been as good as the 215's are. I'm actually gonna buy one of those huge EQ's and try it out for fun. There is something to be said for hands on tuning, rather than a PC interface. They are 100$, If I don't like it, I'll throw it in the garbage lol.

I'm chatting with a guy in my city that has a million dollar sound system, all custom style, speakers and subs are all DIY type stuff. He's pretty leery of letting people come over, so I invited him to my place on Saturday to hear mine first. I'm super curious what he will say/think. I've been in a 500K theater full of Wislon stuff and it was extremely lackluster although the video was beyond amazing.... This guy has some projector that was 350K!!!!! and some name I've never heard of before. I'm like a little kid wanting to go see it hahahaha. I wanna bring my omnimic and see how it measures too.
Wonder if you could possibly walk into a theater like the one that had images floating around here a few years ago with all the library book shelves that were used as treatments with that lonely couch surrounded by tube amps with towers of subs. I've gotta post that just for completeness sake.

If knew how to embed image into post full size would do so. Sorry!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	image.jpg
Views:	30
Size:	107.4 KB
ID:	290193  

Last edited by audiovideoholic; Today at 04:20 PM.
audiovideoholic is online now  
post #23943 of 23963 Old Today, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
carp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,268
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 384 Post(s)
Liked: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
I saw the 212HT move very slightly at the dlbeck meet where we were running them at +17dB. The 228HT's 8" drivers were rocking hard by comparison at +17dB, but they didn't falter.
All speakers powered by Cherry monoblocks.

AND IT WAS RIDICULOUSLY LOUD.
I was too busy covering my ears and laughing to notice I guess. My favorite part was when we paused it and you yelled, "look at us!!! We are all covering our ears!!! What are we doing!!!!


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

 

carp is offline  
post #23944 of 23963 Old Today, 04:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,105
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Haha, well yeah of course it is but if you compare the 212's to most any other speaker rated to 60 hz the 212's drivers still don't move in comparison to the other non full-range woofers.

My point was that if dgage is wanting to be able to get a lot of movement from the 212 drivers it's not going to happen unless the volume is insane.
Yeah, it kind of saddens me that at normal volumes, I can barely feel the movement on my sub drivers...but that's actually a good thing.

Apparently, the 212 woofers can move 0.63" at full power.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
rcohen is online now  
post #23945 of 23963 Old Today, 04:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dlbeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 1,087
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I was too busy covering my ears and laughing to notice I guess. My favorite part was when we paused it and you yelled, "look at us!!! We are all covering our ears!!! What are we doing!!!!
I love those memories That's what makes the after parties at GTG's such a great time!
carp likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlbeck is online now  
post #23946 of 23963 Old Today, 06:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I felt the Cat12 was nice when I first heard it and really damn good after professional calibration.

I really wasn't impressed with the 215s initially but they also sounded really damn good after professional calibration.

The speaker is one thing, the room and calibration likely matter more.
Assuming average quality electronics, the speaker is by far most important. That's not to discount those other things in any way, it's just that you'll never get better than the speaker. The room treatments and calibration are there to maximize the speaker's potential, but can never result in SQ that exceeds the capabilities of the speaker transducers.

So yea, speaker absolutely #1 by a long shot IMO.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23947 of 23963 Old Today, 06:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Assuming average quality electronics, the speaker is by far most important. That's not to discount those other things in any way, it's just that you'll never get better than the speaker. The room treatments and calibration are there to maximize the speaker's potential, but can never result in SQ that exceeds the capabilities of the speaker transducers.

So yea, speaker absolutely #1 by a long shot IMO.
What would you know about high end speakers? Bought yourself some JBL M2 Reference speakers and you're all of a sudden a speaker first guy. Just kidding...you make very good points.
dgage is online now  
post #23948 of 23963 Old Today, 06:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,877
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Liked: 904
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Assuming average quality electronics, the speaker is by far most important. That's not to discount those other things in any way, it's just that you'll never get better than the speaker. The room treatments and calibration are there to maximize the speaker's potential, but can never result in SQ that exceeds the capabilities of the speaker transducers.

So yea, speaker absolutely #1 by a long shot IMO.
Its funny that you say that, but I've always read that even the best speakers can sound like crap if the room/acoustics are bad.
dgage, dlbeck and audiovideoholic like this.
jbrown15 is online now  
post #23949 of 23963 Old Today, 06:17 PM
AVS Special Member
 
dgage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,409
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 301 Post(s)
Liked: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I have only been able to get the 12's moving in the 212's one time, and that was outside at a gtg in a park with some local KC friends. We were using an inuke and were at absolutely crazy volume levels. It was really cool to be able to see those drivers moving for the first time!

I haven't played the 212's loud enough to get the drivers visibly moving in my room and I've been to +15 in here before.
Thanks for letting me know Carp so I won't equate lack of driver movement with lack of driver involvement.
dgage is online now  
post #23950 of 23963 Old Today, 06:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,105
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 210 Post(s)
Liked: 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Assuming average quality electronics, the speaker is by far most important. That's not to discount those other things in any way, it's just that you'll never get better than the speaker. The room treatments and calibration are there to maximize the speaker's potential, but can never result in SQ that exceeds the capabilities of the speaker transducers.

So yea, speaker absolutely #1 by a long shot IMO.
Its funny that you say that, but I've always read that even the best speakers can sound like crap if the room/acoustics are bad.
A x B

Which is more important? A or B?
rcohen is online now  
post #23951 of 23963 Old Today, 06:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Its funny that you say that, but I've always read that even the best speakers can sound like crap if the room/acoustics are bad.
Of course! But my point was that given the same attention to room acoustics and the same RC, the speaker with the better design and transducers will always sound better than a lesser speaker. Those things don't "equalize" speaker SQ, they only optimize it. So the better you start with the better you can end up with.
audiovideoholic likes this.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23952 of 23963 Old Today, 06:20 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
A x B

Which is more important? A or B?
It all depends. What is A and what is B?
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23953 of 23963 Old Today, 06:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jbrown15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Vancouver B.C.
Posts: 5,877
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 775 Post(s)
Liked: 904
Official JTR speaker thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Of course! But my point was that given the same attention to room acoustics and the same RC, the speaker with the better design and transducers will always sound better than a lesser speaker. Those things don't "equalize" speaker SQ, they only optimize it. So the better you start with the better you can end up with.

Very true, but let's say you had a budget of $5000 for a pair of speaker and had a so so room as far as acoustics go. You're far better off spending $3500 on the speakers and $1500 on acoustics rather then all $5000 speakers. The cheaper speakers would end up sounding better anyways.

But I get the point that you're trying to make. Speakers are important but so are a lot of other factors.
dgage likes this.
jbrown15 is online now  
post #23954 of 23963 Old Today, 06:50 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,895
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
It all depends. What is A and what is B?
Yeah, but in my experience you could throw a blanket over Noesis, Catalyst and Danley. The room is often the difference maker. Now your M2's might be a horse of a different color.
Looking forward to the 27th.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #23955 of 23963 Old Today, 07:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
Very true, but let's say you had a budget of $5000 for a pair of speaker and had a so so room as far as acoustics go. You're far better off spending $3500 on the speakers and $1500 on acoustics rather then all $5000 speakers. The cheaper speakers would end up sounding better anyways.

But I get the point that you're trying to make. Speakers are important but so are a lot of other factors.
I don't want to get into the weeds with this, but that really depends on the speaker and how bad the room is. Some speakers require a lot of room treatments to shine and others not so much. Given the right speaker and my room I would spend all my money on the speaker and forget about dedicated treatments until I got some more cash. The power response of the speaker is huge here and although bass modes can be challenging they can be mitigated with proper positioning and RC that comes with most AVR's.

And again, I'm not saying room treatments aren't important or that they don't help - sometimes dramatically, just that the speaker selection can still trump it for SQ.

And this is not to be argumentative, I base this off my own experience in my own room.

Those M2's were in there BEFORE the room treatments. So I took notes on the SQ changes
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	PA010238.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	129.5 KB
ID:	290473  
dgage likes this.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23956 of 23963 Old Today, 07:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,052
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 439 Post(s)
Liked: 677
My vote is room makes more difference than speaker.

I'll even hesitate to say the better speaker will always sound better in the same room.
Archaea is online now  
post #23957 of 23963 Old Today, 07:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Yeah, but in my experience you could throw a blanket over Noesis, Catalyst and Danley. The room is often the difference maker. Now your M2's might be a horse of a different color.
Looking forward to the 27th.
Well I'm glad you said that and not me, but I agree. And that's to say they are all great speakers, but very similar in OVERALL SQ. Some different strengths and weaknesses, but very similar. It's the reason I had the 212's and the Danley's for MONTHS. Simply couldn't decide which poison(or strength) to choose. The M2's ended that conundrum literally within minutes of hearing them and that has not changed in my room - treated or not. The room treatments made a difference in the bass response of my room for sure, but the 8 panels I put on my walls didn't magically transform the top end - it was already phenomenal. I think it helped a little above schroeder, but I'm really reaching for justification of the money spent more than I can say they helped the SQ. The M2's seemingly care very little about those treatments.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23958 of 23963 Old Today, 07:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 3,685
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
My vote is room makes more difference than speaker.

I'll even hesitate to say the better speaker will always sound better in the same room.
I think a lot of the times you'll be correct. But Linkwitz has a lot of interesting reading on that topic. He doesn't really believe too much in treatments, but much of that has to do with the fact that he espouses speaker designs that don't depend on them. Which is why I say the speaker can have a lot do with it.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #23959 of 23963 Old Today, 07:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
coolgeek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,601
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Interesting, I'm a Cardiac Surgeon "type" ... Anyone need coronary bypass surgery?

My prices are very reasonable ...
RMK.. I did not know you were a surgeon.. that's awesome... !

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
I found the CAT12's to be lacking midbass for my preference when I heard them, same as the sh50's and the 212's (though I knew what I was getting into getting the LP's vs the ported). I don't think I've ever heard a speaker thats been as good as the 215's are. I'm actually gonna buy one of those huge EQ's and try it out for fun. There is something to be said for hands on tuning, rather than a PC interface. They are 100$, If I don't like it, I'll throw it in the garbage lol.

I'm chatting with a guy in my city that has a million dollar sound system, all custom style, speakers and subs are all DIY type stuff. He's pretty leery of letting people come over, so I invited him to my place on Saturday to hear mine first. I'm super curious what he will say/think. I've been in a 500K theater full of Wislon stuff and it was extremely lackluster although the video was beyond amazing.... This guy has some projector that was 350K!!!!! and some name I've never heard of before. I'm like a little kid wanting to go see it hahahaha. I wanna bring my omnimic and see how it measures too.
There's a guy with a Million Dollar home theater in my country as well... great projector (very expensive Runco,.. i think i was like $200K, at least that's what the installler charged him for), and I guess the room setup itself was expensive as it's very big and a screen about 20 feet wide... but like you said, the sound system is lackluster...


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
coolgeek is online now  
post #23960 of 23963 Old Today, 07:50 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 5,895
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
RMK.. I did not know you were a surgeon.. that's awesome... !
.
Yeah, I'm kind of a big deal ...
dgage likes this.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #23961 of 23963 Old Today, 08:33 PM
Advanced Member
 
SeaNile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Chadds Ford, PA
Posts: 760
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Yeah, I'm kind of a big deal ...
Bet you love Obamacare!! Keep cranking out the RVU's....
SeaNile is online now  
post #23962 of 23963 Old Today, 08:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audiovideoholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I don't want to get into the weeds with this, but that really depends on the speaker and how bad the room is. Some speakers require a lot of room treatments to shine and others not so much. Given the right speaker and my room I would spend all my money on the speaker and forget about dedicated treatments until I got some more cash. The power response of the speaker is huge here and although bass modes can be challenging they can be mitigated with proper positioning and RC that comes with most AVR's.

And again, I'm not saying room treatments aren't important or that they don't help - sometimes dramatically, just that the speaker selection can still trump it for SQ.

And this is not to be argumentative, I base this off my own experience in my own room.

Those M2's were in there BEFORE the room treatments. So I took notes on the SQ changes
Well they look beautiful in your room, what catches my eye is the mic!!! Let the real deals show themselves to us all through some serious measurements and at some serious spl levels too lol

Edit for curiosity.

What made you put up the panels? Please show the before and after as I know you have them

Last edited by audiovideoholic; Today at 08:56 PM.
audiovideoholic is online now  
post #23963 of 23963 Old Today, 08:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
audiovideoholic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Murray KY
Posts: 2,444
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 100 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
Bet you love Obamacare!! Keep cranking out the RVU's....
No kidding! My wife just got her RVUs raised substantially after finally getting an office manager that had been around enough to talk some sense into the hospital board.
audiovideoholic is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
Gear in this thread - 228ht by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off