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post #24571 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
In that case, might as well hit the "buy it now" button....do it...get it out of the way...we all know how this will end...now we are just talking about timing
Yea I know, other things in line first...if I had nothing else I wanted at this point in time, I would have already owned it

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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
1. Yes you are crazy...which is why you fit in so well on this thread.

2. I haven't read any reports of Seaton Submersives being damaged and I've read Mark hits his equipment pretty hard at the GTGs sometimes. So I'd be surprised if you were able to hurt your Seaton Submersives unless you were trying to break them.
He has those limiters built in for a reason...keep people from abusing his shtuff.

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post #24572 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 02:11 PM
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Beast, I will only run the 215RT's full range now vs Full Range and LFE. That alone will fix my issues I have been having.

And I am getting the crowsons as an exstention to the LFE to feel down to 5htz as I am being told its near impossible to get anything of great usefulness on my concrete slab that low.
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post #24573 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 02:21 PM
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Mjbuoni just reduced the price on his 3 veneered 212 HTs. A great deal.

Three JTR Noesis 212 HT for sale

And 7channelfreak has his black 212 HT-LPs for sale for the same price.

FS: three JTR 212 HT-lp Noesis
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post #24574 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I never really got into head phones, my dad is a big audiophile guy, but real quality music and video is his thing. I know when I was a kid he always had head phones on. Reel to reel and head phones is still the best I have heard. Anyway I have never used head phones for home theater, but I was thinking about using headphones in my theater at night for the time being till I figure out what I am doing. What would be a good set of head phones for say that 7.1 sound? Do they connect right in your system or do you need an external processor? My son was a big gammer till he got a car, but I think he used Astros? I know I paid a fortune for them, he said they made it sound like home theater. Could be a temporary solution till I get my problems worked out.
The only way to get surround is if the processor has it built in.... or a external soundcard. It's not worth the bother. Astros would have had the mixamp with them, which is a small soundcard pretty much. You'd be amazed what a good set of phones can sound like! I tend to like open phones but when I want some serious bass, I throw on my closed Fostex TH900's! They outbass any other phone I've ever tired, just amazing! and they will work with ipods or any handheld unit since they are really sensitive..... You just have to stomach the $1500 price tag lol.

It's tough to recommend phones. My go to phone is the senn 650. Great phones that are under $400.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #24575 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Beast, I will only run the 215RT's full range now vs Full Range and LFE. That alone will fix my issues I have been having.

And I am getting the crowsons as an exstention to the LFE to feel down to 5htz as I am being told its near impossible to get anything of great usefulness on my concrete slab that low.
How do you run full range with no LFE? IS something that the mini dsp does. I have never used a mini dsp so you have to excuse me for asking.
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post #24576 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 04:56 PM
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How do you run full range with no LFE? IS something that the mini dsp does. I have never used a mini dsp so you have to excuse me for asking.
I read it to mean he was routing the LFE channel to the mains and to the subs. Now he will just route the LFE to the subs and the let the 215s run full range on the L/R channel signal only.
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post #24577 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
I read it to mean he was routing the LFE channel to the mains and to the subs. Now he will just route the LFE to the subs and the let the 215s run full range on the L/R channel signal only.
Yeah I get it now. I read it wrong at first.
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post #24578 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 05:48 PM
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Catching up here (after watching the Royals clinch a trip to the World Fing Series!!!! 8-0 in the playoffs - no way this is actually happening!!!!)

Dave, that sucks man. I wouldn't mess with trying to soundproof the new theater room. No matter what you do you won't be able to keep the bass from escaping and that's what your neighbors are hearing anyway. So.... I guess the only option is to move. That really sucks but if I had neighbors calling the cops I would move too.

Depressing stuff.....
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post #24579 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 06:06 PM
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I would figure out exactly what level you can play your system and still be within the noise ordinance levels. It's your house, you pay taxes like everyone else. I haven't seen you state what the actual noise levels are outside your home?

Maybe it's your neighbors that have to move! Have you considered that?? Sorry man, I just wouldn't give up because some wanker wants to live in a graveyard. If I was within ordinance I would stand my ground and let them move. Sorry, I know this is against the general advice here, but I would have data on what's going on here. Come on Dave, your an audio guy, take measurements man. Your neighbors don't even know what an SPL meter is!!
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post #24580 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
Catching up here (after watching the Royals clinch a trip to the World Fing Series!!!! 8-0 in the playoffs - no way this is actually happening!!!!)
What a great story so far!

They are my adopted team right now since the Pirates stunk it up in the wild card game.
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post #24581 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 08:53 PM
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I downloaded the free 30 day trial of the two channel Dirac Live the other day. Haven't had a lot of time with it but I have confirmed with REW before and after Dirac filter is in place that there is nice improvement in impulse response. Need more listening time for subjective opinion, but the objective tests are much improved. Now I am looking forward to XMC-1 Dirac implementation more than ever.


Without Dirac I have no less than 9 peaks above -15dB in the first 10ms. With Dirac filter running I have 2, maybe 3 in that same range.
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Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
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post #24582 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
1. Yes you are crazy...which is why you fit in so well on this thread.

2. I haven't read any reports of Seaton Submersives being damaged and I've read Mark hits his equipment pretty hard at the GTGs sometimes. So I'd be surprised if you were able to hurt your Seaton Submersives unless you were trying to break them.
Correct. I expect my customers to eventually explore the limits of their system. It takes some 3 years to get there, and others 30 seconds.

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Yea I know, other things in line first...if I had nothing else I wanted at this point in time, I would have already owned it

He has those limiters built in for a reason...keep people from abusing his shtuff.
I think of it more as protecting them from unknowingly abusing their *own* shtuff.
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post #24583 of 30452 Old 10-15-2014, 10:05 PM
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Mark, are you typically more concerned with thermal or mechanical protection in the Submersive/Cats?
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post #24584 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 02:56 AM
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Correct. I expect my customers to eventually explore the limits of their system. It takes some 3 years to get there, and others 30 seconds.
30 Seconds to Mars...
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post #24585 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 06:42 AM
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30 Seconds to Mars...
they put one one hell of a live show, I suggest seeing them play live if you get the chance
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post #24586 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I would figure out exactly what level you can play your system and still be within the noise ordinance levels. It's your house, you pay taxes like everyone else. I haven't seen you state what the actual noise levels are outside your home?

Maybe it's your neighbors that have to move! Have you considered that?? Sorry man, I just wouldn't give up because some wanker wants to live in a graveyard. If I was within ordinance I would stand my ground and let them move. Sorry, I know this is against the general advice here, but I would have data on what's going on here. Come on Dave, your an audio guy, take measurements man. Your neighbors don't even know what an SPL meter is!!
Agreed 100% here. Walk around with an SPL meter and your cell phone, play some music with some serious bass and get the wife to adjust the volume until you find the limit of the system and just remember to not go over that. take pics of the spl readings and your locations. With knowledge comes power. Remember the statute number, and memorize the legal verbage exactly so that the next time some cops come knocking, you can clearly state that you are inside the law and give them the proof. They will likely forward this information on to the Shi$$y neighbor at which point it becomes their problem, not yours. They don't like it? They can move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
Correct. I expect my customers to eventually explore the limits of their system. It takes some 3 years to get there, and others 30 seconds.



I think of it more as protecting them from unknowingly abusing their *own* shtuff.
Yes, thanks for the correction But just HOW many more dB's COULD you get without those limiters??? Haha
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post #24587 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 12:11 PM
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Very cool. I hope this post is OK as I copied the image and text from the other forum. I assume the "douche" mentioned below is our one and only DD . I think this review really points out the importance of proper setup, and in using great source material. I (and several others here) know the 215RT's are capable of this type of performance. It's is nice to hear a report from someone who isn't part of the JTR fan base.
I finally got home last night at 11 pm from RMAF. I had a great time with Jeff. The "douche" wasn't me. This was me : "Oh thank god, a decent human being slapped down that track and put our disc back on." I've followed Tyson and Pez's live coverage for for quite a few years and was excited to have them in the room. No way I was going to mess with the listening of their own CD. We did get other requests for Hotel California and the room up the hall (Nola) was playing it almost constantly. They basically switched back and forth between Hotel California and The Pink Panther.

I started room setup at 9 am on Thursday and we were done by about 7 pm. It took a while just to carry everything up to the room and unpack it all. Glenn with GIK Acoustics stopped by in the afternoon and said we had the treatments setup in optimal places. He also took a look at our measurements. Our room had more treatments than any other room at RMAF. Jeff and I measured the left, right, and both speakers from 5 positions (3 front row seats and the middle seat for rows 2 & 3). We ended up averaging the left measurements and the right measurements. For the low end EQ (up to 300 Hz) the speakers were almost identical and we used the same filters for left/right. For 300 Hz and above we used a few very subtle filters that were speaker dependent. Jeff and I discussed everything and made the decisions together. He did want a higher bass curve than I prefer so I added it in. There was one filter at around 6000 Hz for each speaker that I though made it too bright so Jeff let me turn it off. It was nice being able to turn stuff on/off on the fly while listening to music. Once dialed in, upright bass music sounded the same at most of the seats.

Some comments of mine on the show:
  • I didn't hear anything I liked better than the JTR 215HT's
  • The 215HT's delicacy and dynamics were incredible
  • I listened to the 215HT's for about 9 1/2 hours on Saturday with no fatigue
  • I listened to a few other rooms for around 30 minutes on Saturday and 30-45 minutes on Sunday
  • The 400 watts/channel Maraschino amps handled the loudest volumes we ever listened to (including the Jericho clip from Iron Man)
  • 3 rooms I listened to were playing LP's. The record static noise and pops/crackles in all 3 rooms drove me crazy. If I even had even 1 pop per song with my HTPC I would get rid of it.
  • I listened to 5 pairs of Abyss headphones ($5,495 each) with some very high end DAC's. I'm realized I'm not a headphone guy and that they don't hold a candle to live playback levels with the 215RT's.
  • Tube amplifiers give me headaches. It happened in each room. I also don't like the bloated note sound.
  • I heard the most comments in the room after playback of Sarah McLachlan's Angel.
  • Most people had no music requests at all - "What you are playing sounds fine with me."
  • Only a handful brought CD's or flash drives with their own music to listen to.
  • The concert Blu-rays seemed to be a big hit. We played the lossless 2 channel track.

Here are some pictures from AudioFederation.com:



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post #24588 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 12:13 PM
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The burden of proof falls on the neighbor, hoa, police, etc...to provide evidence you broke a law/ordinance/hoa rule. If this neighbor is being unreasonable, then one can file a report and possibly sue for harassment. As far as what I would do first do, a room can be sealed and sound proofed if done correctly with a room within a room structure.

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post #24589 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 12:16 PM
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By the way, Glenn, the owner of GIK Acoustics, noticed that my 244 Bass Traps were an older style and weren't holding their shape properly. They have since update the frame system. Yesterday I received UPS tracking numbers for a pair of new 244 Bass Traps courtesy of GIK Acoustics. Awesome service!
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post #24590 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I finally got home last night at 11 pm from RMAF. I had a great time with Jeff. The "douche" wasn't me. This was me : "Oh thank god, a decent human being slapped down that track and put our disc back on." I've followed Tyson and Pez's live coverage for for quite a few years and was excited to have them in the room. No way I was going to mess with the listening of their own CD. We did get other requests for Hotel California and the room up the hall (Nola) was playing it almost constantly. They basically switched back and forth between Hotel California and The Pink Panther.

I started room setup at 9 am on Thursday and we were done by about 7 pm. It took a while just to carry everything up to the room and unpack it all. Glenn with GIK Acoustics stopped by in the afternoon and said we had the treatments setup in optimal places. He also took a look at our measurements. Our room had more treatments than any other room at RMAF. Jeff and I measured the left, right, and both speakers from 5 positions (3 front row seats and the middle seat for rows 2 & 3). We ended up averaging the left measurements and the right measurements. For the low end EQ (up to 300 Hz) the speakers were almost identical and we used the same filters for left/right. For 300 Hz and above we used a few very subtle filters that were speaker dependent. Jeff and I discussed everything and made the decisions together. He did want a higher bass curve than I prefer so I added it in. There was one filter at around 6000 Hz for each speaker that I though made it too bright so Jeff let me turn it off. It was nice being able to turn stuff on/off on the fly while listening to music. Once dialed in, upright bass music sounded the same at most of the seats.

Some comments of mine on the show:
  • I didn't hear anything I liked better than the JTR 215HT's
  • The 215HT's delicacy and dynamics were incredible
  • I listened to the 215HT's for about 9 1/2 hours on Saturday with no fatigue
  • I listened to a few other rooms for around 30 minutes on Saturday and 30-45 minutes on Sunday
  • The 400 watts/channel Maraschino amps handled the loudest volumes we ever listened to (including the Jericho clip from Iron Man)
  • 3 rooms I listened to were playing LP's. The record static noise and pops/crackles in all 3 rooms drove me crazy. If I even had even 1 pop per song with my HTPC I would get rid of it.
  • I listened to 5 pairs of Abyss headphones ($5,495 each) with some very high end DAC's. I'm realized I'm not a headphone guy and that they don't hold a candle to live playback levels with the 215RT's.
  • Tube amplifiers give me headaches. It happened in each room. I also don't like the bloated note sound.
  • I heard the most comments in the room after playback of Sarah McLachlan's Angel.
  • Most people had no music requests at all - "What you are playing sounds fine with me."
  • Only a handful brought CD's or flash drives with their own music to listen to.
  • The concert Blu-rays seemed to be a big hit. We played the lossless 2 channel track.

Here are some pictures from AudioFederation.com:



I am glad to hear you were not the "douche" LOL.

I myself just got into concert blu rays, so I can understand them being a big hit. When you have a great speaker like a JTR and a big screen, it is like being there.

My question is, what speakers did you like the best. I mean not being biased, what would you say was the best sounding speaker in show? I know you said the 215, but if the 215 was not there, what would it be? I was surprised that the 215's did not get most dynamic. I know I read a few different reviews and I have them all mixed up, but I read one guy gave an A+, but at the end gave 2 stars? I think it was the same fella?

Last edited by Reefdvr27; 10-16-2014 at 12:27 PM.
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post #24591 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 12:23 PM
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Darn it Jeff, stop being a "douche"...

At least they likes the speakers.


Also the guy that gave the A+ is the same guy that gave two stars...

but a lot of speakers makers didn't even get one star... something to think about.
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post #24592 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 01:15 PM
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I would like to point out 2 things :

1: DD, don't worry about the Abyss headphones, they are pretty much considered the biggest joke in headphones, they constantly get awful reviews and are pretty stale sounding (I tried a set the last time I was in Denver, did not like them 1 bit lol)

2: lots of guys on this thread are touting that the 215's need a big room to sound their best, I have always been in the camp that it's utter bullsh&*.
The room these speakers are setup in is likely smaller than most anyone's room and are FAR closer together than what people recommend and I bet sound stellar. Even mine are double that distance apart and I have a pretty narrow room.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #24593 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 03:49 PM
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Very cool Michael, I wish the KC guys would have (or could have) come out there.

Maybe I missed it, what blu ray concerts did you play?

Like Dave I'm also curious what your second favorite speakers were.
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post #24594 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
Thanks, like you I am not friends with anybody around here, but wave and smile to all. Nobody comes out of the house. As I said I had played bass heavy movies here for years and never a problem and I mean I have hit it hard for hours on end. Moving was my first thought, but that is going to cost a lot more than just retooling the theater, but still not out of the question. If that is the case it could be a year or years before that happens. I really have to think it over here. Like I said if I cannot use my equipment the way I want, there is no sense keeping it. My wife and I went out and watched EOT over again at -30 and it just sucked. It was not even worth it. I cannot believe I have to be afraid to listen to music and movie that the cops are going to come every time I crank it up. It just burns me up that who ever it was could not have come talk to me about especially when I asked them to.
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Dave, have you walked outside near your neighbors homes when theater at reference to hear how loud it is? I would have my RS meter out there to know exactly what the levels are. But that's just me, I don't want to stir the pot .
Yea you should play at your traditional movie level and go outside with an spl meter and be on the phone with you wife and have her replay a certain demo scene. Take several measurement spots and see what the difference is from off for a brief moment before and then the peak spl.

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Originally Posted by mjbuoni View Post
The discussion about having the cops called reminds me of when I rented a condo whose walls were constructed with very good sound proofing, as I was told by the landlord before moving in. I didn't even run any subs, just my Legacy Focus SE's. The neighbors below me were 80+ and had trouble sleeping through the night anyway, and the lady neighbor to the side had PTSD I later found out. Anything above around -20dB (relative to ref) or after 8 pm, I either got knocking on my door, reported to the HOA, and once had the cops called. Before it got nasty, the husband of the PTSD lady asked me to play the music at my normal level and come over to his living room to experience how bad it was. I was shocked when I walked in and could barely hear anything. I nodded my head, went back to my living room, and kept the music playing at the same level. A half hour later, the cops showed up. These same people threatened to sue. I moved out of the place a few months later, and now rent a house on an avocado ranch. Closest neighbors are 100+ feet away and have never complained about the noise, even with lots of windows open in the theater room.
Yea I rent a house in the country. Our landlords are about 85ft and even then they live on the other side of their house. They have only ever heard when they were outside near our walls. They love us and never complain. I do watch at -15 but bass is like 10db hot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOWK View Post
Am I crazy that I watch all movies at reference?

When I came to the thread I thought most of you listened to above reference...

Then I start reading that a lot of you using -10 or -6...

I guess I am the crazy one...


Question:
If I would watch EOT at reference with my Seatons, do I have to worry about damaging them? I also usually run the Seatons hot about 4-5db.
DD posted so something like a month ago about reference in relation to room size. I bet we all listen near the same perceived loudness. I mean does not every single person here turn it up as loud as possible to the point of slightly uncomfortable and then back down the MV like 2?

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post #24595 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
By the way, Glenn, the owner of GIK Acoustics, noticed that my 244 Bass Traps were an older style and weren't holding their shape properly. They have since update the frame system. Yesterday I received UPS tracking numbers for a pair of new 244 Bass Traps courtesy of GIK Acoustics. Awesome service!
I have 4 of the older 244 's and noticed the same thing . The new ones seam a lot better and are lighter .

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post #24596 of 30452 Old 10-16-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post
Yea I rent a house in the country. Our landlords are about 85ft and even then they live on the other side of their house. They have only ever heard when they were outside near our walls. They love us and never complain. I do watch at -15 but bass is like 10db hot.
Reefdvr27 - If you need some good measuring equipment, I'll let you borrow a Earthworks M30 Measuring Microphone and/or Simpson Sound Level Meter with Simpson Sound Level Calibrator. Just PM me and I'll send it to you Monday.

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post #24597 of 30452 Old 10-17-2014, 08:44 AM
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Live Concert

Went out to check out some live music last night. It was the Experience Hendrix Tour featuring Billy Cox (Band of Gypsies), the great Buddy Guy, Kenny Wayne Shepard, Jonny Lang, Zakk Wylde and many more. It was a guitar fest in the beautiful and purpose built Robert Mondavi Center for the performing arts. This was the 2nd time I was at Mondavi (Chieftains) and the sound each time was horrible. We were sitting center left and row X 2/3rd of the way back from the stage. It was the loudest most muddled audio I have ever heard in a live show.

Some “facts about the $60M facility are:

The Mondavi Center is named for Robert and Margrit Mondavi, the distinguished winemaker and UC Davis alumnus and his wife, who gave $10 million for its construction.

Quote:
The distance from the forestage to the back of Jackson Hall (seats 2,000) is only 108 feet, with the farthest seat located only 104 feet from the stage

Jackson Hall was built in a shoebox shape to mimic the acoustic of classic concert halls in Vienna, Boston, and Amsterdam, using Indian sandstone and reclaimed Douglas fir.

The Douglas fir used in constructing Jackson Hall came from trees that were logged in the 1800s and had sunk to the bottom of Canada’s Ruby Lake and extracted by a company specializing in timber reclamation. Some of the wood is 400-500 years old.

Jackson Hall can be “tuned” for different types of performances by adjusting the ceiling curtains—each of which weighs 2,200 pounds—in order to increase or decrease hall resonance. The ceiling curtains are suspended 73 feet above the floor and can be raised or lowered through slots in the ceiling.

There are also acoustic curtains situated behind the wooden grillage ringing the top of the hall. They range from 12 to 22 feet in length, and may also be moved to “tune” hall resonance.

Jackson Hall is essentially a “building within a building,” insulated from exterior noise and vibration by a double wall with two feet of insulated air space between layers. A basement space four to six feet in height lies below the orchestra level floor.

The stage is 120 feet wide and 50 feet deep, with 80 feet of working grid height overhead.

At the intermission, I went back to the sound engineer’s board and told him my thoughts e.g. too much reflected sound off of all the large (beautiful) wood curved diffuser panels situated around the room, unclear vocals and muddled guitars/ rhythm section. I think he was surprised that I was so blunt but rather than telling me to F off, he smiled and said he understood. The Hall was not built to handle amplified music and the reflections were the main issue. We talked a little about the specifics and he asked where I was sitting and said that he appreciated the feedback. I think he actually tried to make some adjustments as the 2nd half of the show was louder and the vocals were a bit better but mostly just louder. Very disappointing as I had been looking forward to this specific concert since it was announced. Bottom line, that facility despite it's huge budget and professional sound engineering is just abysmal for amplified sound.

I would have loved to have heard the entire concert outdoors. I think that would be the best venue for these very talented guitarists playing rock and blues like Hendrix’s music. Really made me appreciate what I have at home.

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post #24598 of 30452 Old 10-17-2014, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
I agree with all this except Pops setup. It would be hard for me to say which had more output between the 2 OS and the 16 SI's with 8 nearfield, it was a different experience (didn't seem to be apples to apples) but both were the most intense bass I've experienced outside of car audio.

Either way it takes a TON of sealed subs to hang with an OS no matter what the comparison/numbers say.
Damn right! We've got the video to prove it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
At the intermission, I went back to the sound engineer’s board and told him my thoughts e.g. too much reflected sound off of all the large (beautiful) wood curved diffuser panels situated around the room, unclear vocals and muddled guitars/ rhythm section. I think he was surprised that I was so blunt but rather than telling me to F off, he smiled and said he understood. The Hall was not built to handle amplified music and the reflections were the main issue. We talked a little about the specifics and he asked where I was sitting and said that he appreciated the feedback. I think he actually tried to make some adjustments as the 2nd half of the show was louder and the vocals were a bit better but mostly just louder. Very disappointing as I had been looking forward to this specific concert since it was announced. Bottom line, that facility despite it's huge budget and professional sound engineering is just abysmal for amplified sound.

I would have loved to have heard the entire concert outdoors. I think that would be the best venue for these very talented guitarists playing rock and blues like Hendrix’s music. Really made me appreciate what I have at home.
Rob...

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You tell him to step his absorption game up?
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post #24599 of 30452 Old 10-17-2014, 10:05 AM
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The "douche" is to remain unnamed. Besides a keyboard, we had a Mac laptop, iPad, and two Android phones to choose music.

Anyone recognize Tesseract in the pictures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post
Very cool Michael, I wish the KC guys would have (or could have) come out there.

Maybe I missed it, what blu ray concerts did you play?

Like Dave I'm also curious what your second favorite speakers were.
Jeff and I have already talked a little about doing it again next year. He said hardly any customers (none?) or people he knew attended this year.

We played Chris Botti in Boston - Shape of my Heart, Cream - Toad (drum solo), parts of Eagles Farewell 1 Tour, Jeff Beck Live At Ronnie Scott's, and Lucerne Festival: Beethoven, Rimsky-Korsakov. dlbeck had loaned me Metallica Through the Never, but it didn't seem like the right clientele.

On Friday night after eating at Fogo de Chão we returned to the room and watched Act of Valor with several other guys including Sandbagger and his dad. Sandbagger was helping with the Seaton room. He is the one that sold me the MFW-15 Turbo upgrades. Traffic was slow on Sunday afternoon in the room so we also watched a bunch of movie clips including the Iron Man Jericho clip, Return of the King Oliphants, and The Incredible Hulk Cop Car scene. Each 215RT has the output capability of a Captivator. I can't imagine anyone using a crossover to a sub with these as their mains.

I think these are the speakers I heard:
Nola Metro Grand Reference with its open baffle ribbon tweeter
Vapor Audio Joule Black
Seaton Catalyst 12C
Joseph Audio Profiles
Salk Exotica 3
Audio Kinesis Zephrin 46
Legacy Audio V
Sony SS-AR1 speakers with EMM Labs MTRX amps ($130,000 pair for the amps)
Emerald Physics CS2.3 MKII (I think)
Funk Audio 8.2
Angel City Audio Seraphim
Revel Performa 3 F208 (this was also the JBL room, but they didn't have the M2 and the ones they did have weren't hooked up)

The Funk Audio stuff was the best looking and the website is great, too.

My favorites from the list above would be the Legacy Audio V, Vapor Audio Joule Black, and Seaton Catalyst 12C. The Seatons were too rolled off in the highs for me, but that was probably due to the EQ curve Mark chose with Dirac Live. For some reason, I can't get the Salks to interest me at all. Part of picking which sounds best is obviously determined by what you are listening to. All the rooms were playing completely different stuff which makes it hard to compare. I did step into the Wilson room down the hall for a few minutes, but wasn't impressed. It was funny watching them bring in all the gear on Thursday, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG
2: lots of guys on this thread are touting that the 215's need a big room to sound their best
I agree that most of the time a larger speaker will always sound better than the smaller speaker in the same size room due to lower distortion, greater dynamic ability, and better dispersion. On the other hand, a larger room can help with acoustical problems and only a large speaker can take advantage of that. So I would say larger speakers sound "best" in a larger room, but will almost always sound better than a smaller speaker regardless of room size.
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post #24600 of 30452 Old 10-17-2014, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
The "douche" is to remain unnamed. Besides a keyboard, we had a Mac laptop, iPad, and two Android phones to choose music.

Anyone recognize Tesseract in the pictures?


Jeff and I have already talked a little about doing it again next year. He said hardly any customers (none?) or people he knew attended this year.

We played Chris Botti in Boston - Shape of my Heart, Cream - Toad (drum solo), parts of Eagles Farewell 1 Tour, Jeff Beck Live At Ronnie Scott's, and Lucerne Festival: Beethoven, Rimsky-Korsakov. dlbeck had loaned me Metallica Through the Never, but it didn't seem like the right clientele.

On Friday night after eating at Fogo de Chão we returned to the room and watched Act of Valor with several other guys including Sandbagger and his dad. Sandbagger was helping with the Seaton room. He is the one that sold me the MFW-15 Turbo upgrades. Traffic was slow on Sunday afternoon in the room so we also watched a bunch of movie clips including the Iron Man Jericho clip, Return of the King Oliphants, and The Incredible Hulk Cop Car scene. Each 215RT has the output capability of a Captivator. I can't imagine anyone using a crossover to a sub with these as their mains.

I think these are the speakers I heard:
Nola Metro Grand Reference with its open baffle ribbon tweeter
Vapor Audio Joule Black
Seaton Catalyst 12C
Joseph Audio Profiles
Salk Exotica 3
Audio Kinesis Zephrin 46
Legacy Audio V
Sony SS-AR1 speakers with EMM Labs MTRX amps ($130,000 pair for the amps)
Emerald Physics CS2.3 MKII (I think)
Funk Audio 8.2
Angel City Audio Seraphim
Revel Performa 3 F208 (this was also the JBL room, but they didn't have the M2 and the ones they did have weren't hooked up)

The Funk Audio stuff was the best looking and the website is great, too.

My favorites from the list above would be the Legacy Audio V, Vapor Audio Joule Black, and Seaton Catalyst 12C. The Seatons were too rolled off in the highs for me , but that was probably due to the EQ curve Mark chose with Dirac Live. For some reason, I can't get the Salks to interest me at all. Part of picking which sounds best is obviously determined by what you are listening to. All the rooms were playing completely different stuff which makes it hard to compare. I did step into the Wilson room down the hall for a few minutes, but wasn't impressed. It was funny watching them bring in all the gear on Thursday, though.


I agree that most of the time a larger speaker will always sound better than the smaller speaker in the same size room due to lower distortion, greater dynamic ability, and better dispersion. On the other hand, a larger room can help with acoustical problems and only a large speaker can take advantage of that. So I would say larger speakers sound "best" in a larger room, but will almost always sound better than a smaller speaker regardless of room size.
I have always had a fascination with the Seaton Cats but have never heard them. I have asked a few folks over the last few months what their impressions were and this is probably the third time I have heard from folks that the highs were rolled off or they were "laid back"...wonder if that is just the sound Mark chose when designing the speaker (or perhaps just the design of the tweeter) ?

Last edited by Frohlich; 10-17-2014 at 07:38 PM.
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