Official JTR speaker thread - Page 841 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25201 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbrown15 View Post
I see what you mean because it does mention the 212HT on some of the info in the 212TT page, but it clearly states horn loading down to 600hz on the 212TT and on the 212HT's page it also clearly states horn loading down to 400hz. Plus if you've read through this entire thread it's been talked about several times that the 212HT's are horn loaded well below 600hz.
Doesn't it also mention a specific CD on the TT? So not a neo CD like the HT, correct?

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post #25202 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I have been on the look-out for a great surround speaker, as Home Theater is my emphasis. I like how the price point of the 212TT's splits the difference as you said.

I was under the impression that the Noesis 228HT and 212HT were the direct replacement to the Triple 8's/12's.
Jeff mentioned this speaker to me and he said it was to "fill the price gap between the 228 and 212HT" that was previously occupied by the T12's. The CD is a new one and a bit more affordable than the 212's CD hence the lower price point of the speaker. Seems like a really good choice for HT LCR's or maybe even surrounds in a large room.

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post #25203 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 03:55 PM
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What gets me is the price on the 210RM and how it's the same as 212HT. Any thoughts on this? They both use the neo CD but wood/speaker cost seem similar unless the 10" drivers are that much more expensive.
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post #25204 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
I have been on the look-out for a great surround speaker, as Home Theater is my emphasis. I like how the price point of the 212TT's splits the difference as you said.


I was under the impression that the Noesis 228HT and 212HT were the direct replacement to the Triple 8's/12's.
I don't think I would call the Noesis a replacement, but an upgrade. I really cannot speak for JTR, but I just assumed Jeff discontinued the Triple 12 due to lacking sales and to make room for the new line of speakers he has introduced over the last year.
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
What gets me is the price on the 210RM and how it's the same as 212HT. Any thoughts on this? They both use the neo CD but wood/speaker cost seem similar unless the 10" drivers are that much more expensive.
I believe the 210RT is a full range speaker, but still needs subs. I talked with Jeff about it when I ordered my 215RT's. Anybody that is going to use the speakers for primarily for HT would rather look to the 212HT.

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post #25205 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
What gets me is the price on the 210RM and how it's the same as 212HT. Any thoughts on this? They both use the neo CD but wood/speaker cost seem similar unless the 10" drivers are that much more expensive.
Yes the 10's would be much more expensive.

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post #25206 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 04:38 PM
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Count me in as another Marantz believer. I have a Marantz SR7008 receiver, we replayed the same scene in dark knight, where Batman is fighting Bahne on the metal grate. There was detail revealed that the outlaw 990 and anthem AVM 30 pre-pro missed... I'm moving the receiver to the family room, and going with AV8801 for the theater.

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post #25207 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Yes the 10's would be much more expensive.
Oh so the 10's are neo too? Or just a better driver than the 12s?
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post #25208 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by vince32837 View Post
Count me in as another Marantz believer. I have a Marantz SR7008 receiver, we replayed the same scene in dark knight, where Batman is fighting Bahne on the metal grate. There was detail revealed that the outlaw 990 and anthem AVM 30 pre-pro missed... I'm moving the receiver to the family room, and going with AV8801 for the theater.

Vince
Wow! I'm def going with a pre pro for first time when get HT put back together so glad to read this.
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post #25209 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
I don't think I would call the Noesis a replacement, but an upgrade. I really cannot speak for JTR, but I just assumed Jeff discontinued the Triple 12 due to lacking sales and to make room for the new line of speakers he has introduced over the last year.
I believe the 210RT is a full range speaker, but still needs subs. I talked with Jeff about it when I ordered my 215RT's. Anybody that is going to use the speakers for primarily for HT would rather look to the 212HT.
Yea. But I'm talking about the 210RMprice vs the 212HT. They are very similar in FR range to one another unlike the 210RT. Not the RT which is def a ref tower by looking at pics and sub 40hz specs.
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post #25210 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 05:33 PM
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Jeff half way updating his site (some specs look like need correcting as were copy pasted just to get started with site update I would guess) has made a lot of this a little confusion but that can be swept under the rug as it's exciting.
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post #25211 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Jeff half way updating his site (some specs look like need correcting as were copy pasted just to get started with site update I would guess) has made a lot of this a little confusion but that can be swept under the rug as it's exciting.
The 215 RMs are only $700 more than the 212s. Sounds like a very reasonable price. If I hadn't bought the 212s, this might have been my choice. (perhaps future upgrade as finances permit).
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post #25212 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 07:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
They are internet direct, so no. But they are actually a bargain for what you get. I would imagine that there are only about 15 pairs out there so finding a used set might be rough right now. But after the GTG in Decmember there might be a pair for sale
Good to hear that. Wow did not know there were so few sold of the 215s. They have out of this worls specs. I imagine you need dedicated Mono blocks to run them as well??

also in no rush to spend 7k. Still recovering from my last 6K spent.

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post #25213 of 30452 Old 11-05-2014, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Oh so the 10's are neo too? Or just a better driver than the 12s?
The 10's in the RT''s are for sure not Neo. High throw Neo's are pretty expensive. Pro style neo's are not that expensive that would be used in these applications. Not like the LMS 18 Neo that was insanely expensive.

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post #25214 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 12:50 AM
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These S8's seriously took my surround experience to a different level. I'm doing some respin on some of my collections. You can hear things in the surround mix much more clear. Matter of fact, there's even effects in the surrounds that I couldn't hear before while playing movies. I recently revisited WOTW. First time watching this movie with the whole JTR speaker setup. All I wanna say is WOW!
Chapter 14 @ 1:07:05.. While I was watching this movie around -8.5. I forgot about that scene when the jets flew over. Holy crap! That scene was so friggin loud and realistic. I got startled..lol! One of my new demo scene now to show off the speakers capabilities from the mains to the surrounds. Anyone should try this scene at a high volume. With the bass hot. And you'll know what I'm talking about.
When listen to multi channel music (SACD). With the 215's up front combo with the S8's. You just get enveloped in the music. Then get lost, thinking Dianna Krall is in your HT room live..
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post #25215 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 05:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Yea. But I'm talking about the 210RMprice vs the 212HT. They are very similar in FR range to one another unlike the 210RT. Not the RT which is def a ref tower by looking at pics and sub 40hz specs.
The 10" driver being used has 12mm Xmax and is comparable with the 15" used in the 215 from a quality standpoint. I think Nate has these drivers in his custom Noesis center channel. (maybe not)

I assume the 210RM is meant to be used as a center channel for the 210RT. Since it is a sealed speaker in a smaller cabinet it would be more comparable to the 212ht-lp.

210rm = 80hz-24khz
212ht-lp = 80hz-24khz

@dgage
The 212lp was listed at 70hz but has been changed to 80hz.
Was this your doing?

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post #25216 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by audiovideoholic View Post
Yea. But I'm talking about the 210RMprice vs the 212HT. They are very similar in FR range to one another unlike the 210RT. Not the RT which is def a ref tower by looking at pics and sub 40hz specs.
Sorry, I did not know there was a 210RM. I have only seen the RT.
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post #25217 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:18 AM
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@dgage
The 212lp was listed at 70hz but has been changed to 80hz.
Was this your doing?
I didn't directly mention the disparity in specs to Jeff but I'm pretty sure I know who did...so indirectly it may have been my doing. And my 212HT-LPs are at least 3db down at 80Hz so I'd be cautious about any of the "down to 80Hz products" for home theater use unless you plan to play your subs up to 90 or 100 Hz. I'd recommend getting a chance to hear them before buying them blind.
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post #25218 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:23 AM
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General question for the knowledgeable members of the JTR community. Compared to you guys I'm a rookie to be sure. At some point in the future my theater will receive an upgrade across the board, and I could use guidance regarding the speakers. Right now I have a traditional 7-speaker setup with Triple-8's for the front three and Single-8 HT-LP's for side and rear surrounds. I use 2 Submersives as well. Once the object-based formats mature a bit I'll be adding more Single-8's up high, and may just repurpose the Triple-8's to surround duty. This is a dedicated soundproofed and well-sealed room and is used essentially only for movies, I rarely listen to music there.

Not really interested in any of the towers. Out of the following options, which do you all think would be the best upgrade for the front 3?
228HT $1300
212TT $1600
210RM $2000
212HT $2300

I run everything off an Anthem AVR for now and am pretty happy with the overall sound. Plenty of SPL for my needs as it stands. If I had one complaint, it would be that even though my room is reasonably well-treated acoustically with absorption, I find the treble a bit shrill at times. I guess I'm looking for a bit more refined treble experience, and more mid-bass oomph can't hurt either. I'd appreciate your opinions!
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post #25219 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post
general question for the knowledgeable members of the jtr community. Compared to you guys i'm a rookie to be sure. At some point in the future my theater will receive an upgrade across the board, and i could use guidance regarding the speakers. Right now i have a traditional 7-speaker setup with triple-8's for the front three and single-8 ht-lp's for side and rear surrounds. I use 2 submersives as well. Once the object-based formats mature a bit i'll be adding more single-8's up high, and may just repurpose the triple-8's to surround duty. This is a dedicated soundproofed and well-sealed room and is used essentially only for movies, i rarely listen to music there.

Not really interested in any of the towers. Out of the following options, which do you all think would be the best upgrade for the front 3?
228ht $1300
212tt $1600
210rm $2000
212ht $2300

i run everything off an anthem avr for now and am pretty happy with the overall sound. Plenty of spl for my needs as it stands. If i had one complaint, it would be that even though my room is reasonably well-treated acoustically with absorption, i find the treble a bit shrill at times. I guess i'm looking for a bit more refined treble experience, and more mid-bass oomph can't hurt either. I'd appreciate your opinions!
212ht
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post #25220 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
The 10's in the RT''s are for sure not Neo. High throw Neo's are pretty expensive. Pro style neo's are not that expensive that would be used in these applications. Not like the LMS 18 Neo that was insanely expensive.
N8 you're confusing me. Above you said yes 10s would be much more expensive in the RT compare to 212ht responding to my question. Maybe you misread it cause now your saying they aren't neo and even if they were they wouldn't be that expensive as a pro driver. You're over my head lol.

Both are "high throw" (according to Jeff) but neither are high throw to me. So maybe that's where I'm missing your point.

210-12mm
212-8mm

But maybe it was answered above were someone said maybe you had a center or experience with them.

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post #25221 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:34 AM
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Uscmatt99 - if you want more refinement of the treble, you'd want one with the nicer compression driver, which is found on the 210, 212HT (not TT), or 215. If you want to get away from a shrill or forward treble then you're looking at one of the new wooden horns...210 or 215. And if you want midbass you're really looking at the ported 212HT or 215RM. I know it isn't on your list but the 215RM is everything you describe you want. The 210RM might be what you want but it may not have the midbass you're looking for. The 215RM has prodigious amounts of midbass along with a nice, refined, and less forward upper range. The 215RM is my favorite JTR speaker and sounds like it would be perfect for you...except the more expensive price maybe. But remember you should get a discount for having purchased so much gear from Jeff in the past.
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post #25222 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Uscmatt99 - if you want more refinement of the treble, you'd want one with the nicer compression driver, which is found on the 210, 212HT (not TT), or 215. If you want to get away from a shrill or forward treble then you're looking at one of the new wooden horns...210 or 215. And if you want midbass you're really looking at the ported 212HT or 215RM. I know it isn't on your list but the 215RM is everything you describe you want. The 210RM might be what you want but it may not have the midbass you're looking for. The 215RM has prodigious amounts of midbass along with a nice, refined, and less forward upper range. The 215RM is my favorite JTR speaker and sounds like it would be perfect for you...except the more expensive price maybe. But remember you should get a discount for having purchased so much gear from Jeff in the past.
Dgage, this is such a nice succinct summary of the different speakers.

It's looking like the 215RM is THE speaker for my next upgrade.

You had the 215s before. I was thinking that at 95dB sensitivity (although it's a lot less than the 212s), they should be able to be played with just a receiver. If you don't mind me asking, have you tried to do it with just a receiver and if so, can it hit reference?

I am thinking at 135 watts per channel the Onkyo puts out, that could get it to 116 dB (plus might be a couple dB more since it's a 4 Ohm speaker).
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post #25223 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:26 AM
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Dgage, this is such a nice succinct summary of the different speakers.

It's looking like the 215RM is THE speaker for my next upgrade.

You had the 215s before. I was thinking that at 95dB sensitivity (although it's a lot less than the 212s), they should be able to be played with just a receiver. If you don't mind me asking, have you tried to do it with just a receiver and if so, can it hit reference?

I am thinking at 135 watts per channel the Onkyo puts out, that could get it to 116 dB (plus might be a couple dB more since it's a 4 Ohm speaker).
If you will be playing it that loud I'd get a pro amp as most of us use pro amps from many different companies. Don't want to clip the signal.
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post #25224 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
I didn't directly mention the disparity in specs to Jeff but I'm pretty sure I know who did...so indirectly it may have been my doing. And my 212HT-LPs are at least 3db down at 80Hz so I'd be cautious about any of the "down to 80Hz products" for home theater use unless you plan to play your subs up to 90 or 100 Hz. I'd recommend getting a chance to hear them before buying them blind.
A year or two ago Double J with AE Speakers mentioned this

"As a good rule i generally try to tune about 1/2 octave below tuning. This keeps the group delay and vent velocity down. So if crossing at 80hz, tuning would be around 60hz ideally or lower."

Expect these to work and hope for lower if desired.
S8 @ 80hz XO = 100hz
228 @ 70hz XO = 90hz
212ht @ 60hz XO = 80hz

Sealed models
210rm @ 80hz XO =100hz
212lp @ 80hz XO = 100hz


Take those with a grain of salt b/c it will be situational and owner preference that will determine what is best for the individual. When buying blind expect the worse (100hz) and hope for the best.
Chris
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post #25225 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by uscmatt99 View Post
General question for the knowledgeable members of the JTR community. Compared to you guys I'm a rookie to be sure. At some point in the future my theater will receive an upgrade across the board, and I could use guidance regarding the speakers. Right now I have a traditional 7-speaker setup with Triple-8's for the front three and Single-8 HT-LP's for side and rear surrounds. I use 2 Submersives as well. Once the object-based formats mature a bit I'll be adding more Single-8's up high, and may just repurpose the Triple-8's to surround duty. This is a dedicated soundproofed and well-sealed room and is used essentially only for movies, I rarely listen to music there.

Not really interested in any of the towers. Out of the following options, which do you all think would be the best upgrade for the front 3?
228HT $1300
212TT $1600
210RM $2000
212HT $2300

I run everything off an Anthem AVR for now and am pretty happy with the overall sound. Plenty of SPL for my needs as it stands. If I had one complaint, it would be that even though my room is reasonably well-treated acoustically with absorption, I find the treble a bit shrill at times. I guess I'm looking for a bit more refined treble experience, and more mid-bass oomph can't hurt either. I'd appreciate your opinions!
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Uscmatt99 - if you want more refinement of the treble, you'd want one with the nicer compression driver, which is found on the 210, 212HT (not TT), or 215. If you want to get away from a shrill or forward treble then you're looking at one of the new wooden horns...210 or 215. And if you want midbass you're really looking at the ported 212HT or 215RM. I know it isn't on your list but the 215RM is everything you describe you want. The 210RM might be what you want but it may not have the midbass you're looking for. The 215RM has prodigious amounts of midbass along with a nice, refined, and less forward upper range. The 215RM is my favorite JTR speaker and sounds like it would be perfect for you...except the more expensive price maybe. But remember you should get a discount for having purchased so much gear from Jeff in the past.

Yep, add that 215RM to your list and a +1 from me on it. I haven't heard it, but the design warrants my interest, as well as impressions made by dgage and coach that they both feel it is a diamond in the rough that most people thinking of buying JTR's don't consider.

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post #25226 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
A year or two ago Double J with AE Speakers mentioned XO a speaker at least a full octave above the speakers limits.

S8 @ 80hz XO = 100hz
228 @ 70hz XO = 90hz
212lp @ 80hz XO = 100hz
212ht @ 60hz XO = 80hz


Take those with a grain of salt b/c it will be situational and owner preference that will determine what is best for the individual. When buying blind expect the worse and hope for the best.
Chris
I have been a long time believer in this to begin with. It started off with my T12's and finding that the speakers meshed better with a higher than 80hz cross. It only makes sense. You have a -3 point at 80hz, that means the speaker's response has already begun to roll-off, then you add a HPF at the same area, you are all of a sudden getting double the roll, which won't necessarily be the correct dB/oct roll that is correct for good meshing with your sub. Bump the crossover point up a little and you all of a sudden get the "proper" rolloff.
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post #25227 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:43 AM
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Dgage, this is such a nice succinct summary of the different speakers.

It's looking like the 215RM is THE speaker for my next upgrade.

You had the 215s before. I was thinking that at 95dB sensitivity (although it's a lot less than the 212s), they should be able to be played with just a receiver. If you don't mind me asking, have you tried to do it with just a receiver and if so, can it hit reference?

I am thinking at 135 watts per channel the Onkyo puts out, that could get it to 116 dB (plus might be a couple dB more since it's a 4 Ohm speaker).
I didn't have the 215s before, Coach did who lives about 10 min away. He was driving the 215s with a Sunfire something amp that put out 800w into 4 ohms. They had plenty of power but of course could have handled more.

The sealed 215RM wouldn't necessarily need a lot of power...depending on how you configured it. If you setup the 215RM to play down to 40 or 50Hz, it would need more power. However, after spending that type of coin on these speakers, I'd definitely throw some amperage at it. Then again, don't let the 95Hz sensitivity be an issue, that is still a heck of a lot more sensitivity than most speakers.
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post #25228 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:45 AM
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Uscmatt99 - if you want more refinement of the treble, you'd want one with the nicer compression driver, which is found on the 210, 212HT (not TT), or 215. If you want to get away from a shrill or forward treble then you're looking at one of the new wooden horns...210 or 215. And if you want midbass you're really looking at the ported 212HT or 215RM. I know it isn't on your list but the 215RM is everything you describe you want. The 210RM might be what you want but it may not have the midbass you're looking for. The 215RM has prodigious amounts of midbass along with a nice, refined, and less forward upper range. The 215RM is my favorite JTR speaker and sounds like it would be perfect for you...except the more expensive price maybe. But remember you should get a discount for having purchased so much gear from Jeff in the past.
I'll throw out one more...if you want to stay on that list, you might consider the 212HT and either EQ it down some in the upper end IF it is brighter than you want. Or see if Jeff will build you a ported 212HT with the wooden horn, which would have the more laid back upper end.
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post #25229 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:46 AM
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Yep, add that 215RM to your list and a +1 from me on it. I haven't heard it, but the design warrants my interest, as well as impressions made by dgage and coach that they both feel it is a diamond in the rough that most people thinking of buying JTR's don't consider.
+2.. I like my 215RM's better then my 215RT's. HA! That atta stir up some sh!t! Lol...
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post #25230 of 30452 Old 11-06-2014, 07:51 AM
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+2.. I like my 215RM's better then my 215RT's. HA! That atta stir up some sh!t! Lol...
I'm pretty sure you're wrong Rhed...that isn't natural or some such nonsense.
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