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post #25381 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Thanks for the feedback dgage. I've heard the 215's at RMK!'s house and they sounded phenomenal to me there. I would have bought them instead of the 212's if they were slightly smaller (and much cheaper!). It's been so long though that it's really hard to remember anything more than that. I really do like the sound of the 212's so far. I don't find them bright at all, but without a A/B comparison I doubt I could tell the difference in top end.


As for keeping the 212's. I've already got the LCR setup on 2 inuke 6000dsp's so I'd only need one more to have the amps for the midbass. I was thinking that I could just run the single input from my integra DHC 80.3 into the inuke and then split the frequencies using it's build in dsp so no minidsp would be needed. (at least that's how I think it will work)


One other issue I have is a very noticeable hiss coming from the speakers with the inuke 6000dsp's. Even with no input in them just running the speaker cable output there is hiss. Changing the gain doesn't help and it doesn't seem to change weather the other equipment is on or not. I don't know if that is just the way it is, or there is something I can do about it. If not I may need to consider changing amps, because the hiss while not loud is distracting during quite scenes. If I plug them into an emotive XPR-5 or another inuke NU4-6000 the hiss goes away so I'm not sure if that is just the way it is with the 6000dsp's. I though I read Carp was using one and I don't remember him saying anything about a hiss so I'm not sure if there is something I can change to help with that or not.
The 212s sometimes cause hiss because they're so sensitive and many use RCA reduction plugs that remove 10 or 12 db...I can't find them but I'm sure someone on here does and will post them. The 215 likely wouldn't have that problem...if it is a sensitivity issue. But it could be some sort of ground loop or feedback and an easy way to test for that is to use a cheater plug like this (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-1...-0GY/100356839). Coach had to use the cheater plugs on his Cat12s to address his hiss problem and they worked well.

You might want to reach out to Jeff and see if he can make a shallower 215RM for you. I'm a fan of KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) and you can't get much simpler than a single speaker than does it all so well.
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post #25382 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 05:12 PM
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I put a minidsp opendrc on my LR 212's and boosted the 80-150hz region a pile and it sounds phenomenal. It blends with the OS's perfect and adds the midbass everyone seems convinced is impossible with the 212's.
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post #25383 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by subyguy View Post
I put a minidsp opendrc on my LR 212's and boosted the 80-150hz region a pile and it sounds phenomenal. It blends with the OS's perfect and adds the midbass everyone seems convinced is impossible with the 212's.
I think a lot of those discussions where around the 212lp and not the regular 212 HT. Either way it's awesome you got great results that work for you.
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post #25384 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by subyguy View Post
I put a minidsp opendrc on my LR 212's and boosted the 80-150hz region a pile and it sounds phenomenal. It blends with the OS's perfect and adds the midbass everyone seems convinced is impossible with the 212's.
Based on everything I've read, most seem to feel the ported 212s have plenty of midbass. It is the sealed 212s that seem to be the ones lacking midbass. Interesting that the sealed 212s were previously listed down to 70 Hz and have just recently been updated on the JTR website with the low end set to 80Hz for the 212 HT-LP.

But regardless...I'm glad you are enjoying your 212s and getting them to pair up with an awesome sub...I'm looking forward to hearing an OS one of these days.
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post #25385 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Of course, I also am not an authority on audio, however, the maker of these JTR speakers has given me the nickname "Enduro Bass," so I guess that implies that I like bass.


Playing a sub at 40% of their capacity is not playing a sub at their full potential, so I don't think what I said is incorrect. I have heard 2 Orbit Shifters in action on several occasions. It never occurred to me to dial them back.


There are people who will try to drill a nail into a wood beam with their hand. Many would use a hammer. I would be the one to use the sledgehammer approach.


Glad to hear that you have found an approach that works for you.
Wait ... drill nails

So you sledgehammer screws?

But seriously, if Jeff is calling you a "Enduro Bass" you have serious issues .

The 40% number was an approximation of their potential by running level matched dual OS's at say -8 ref (my "normal movie listening level). They are clearly capable of much more as demonstrated by my occasional ventures into +15 territory.

But if you likes you some bass, go get you some ...

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post #25386 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Thanks for the feedback dgage. I've heard the 215's at RMK!'s house and they sounded phenomenal to me there. I would have bought them instead of the 212's if they were slightly smaller (and much cheaper!). It's been so long though that it's really hard to remember anything more than that. I really do like the sound of the 212's so far. I don't find them bright at all, but without a A/B comparison I doubt I could tell the difference in top end.


As for keeping the 212's. I've already got the LCR setup on 2 inuke 6000dsp's so I'd only need one more to have the amps for the midbass. I was thinking that I could just run the single input from my integra DHC 80.3 into the inuke and then split the frequencies using it's build in dsp so no minidsp would be needed. (at least that's how I think it will work)


One other issue I have is a very noticeable hiss coming from the speakers with the inuke 6000dsp's. Even with no input in them just running the speaker cable output there is hiss. Changing the gain doesn't help and it doesn't seem to change weather the other equipment is on or not. I don't know if that is just the way it is, or there is something I can do about it. If not I may need to consider changing amps, because the hiss while not loud is distracting during quite scenes. If I plug them into an emotive XPR-5 or another inuke NU4-6000 the hiss goes away so I'm not sure if that is just the way it is with the 6000dsp's. I though I read Carp was using one and I don't remember him saying anything about a hiss so I'm not sure if there is something I can change to help with that or not.
Hi Mark,

I have some 15DB XLR attenuators I'm not using you can try to see if that helps with the hiss but if changing the gain on the amp doesn't help, then I'm not sure attenuation will either but it won't hurt to try. I'm on vacation out of the country now but back late next week .Let me know if you want to give them a try.

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post #25387 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 09:08 PM
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Ok. So u weren't utilizing the orbit shifters on a regular basis at loud listening volumes, so u purchased something that better suited your needs. That's cool.

Not sure if your comment on "serious issues" is intended to be literal or not. Jeff is usually pretty agressive with the volume knob and he sells products that have the capability to go fairly loud

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But seriously, if Jeff is calling you a "Enduro Bass" you have serious issues .

The 40% number was an approximation of their potential by running level matched dual OS's at say -8 ref (my "normal movie listening level). They are clearly capable of much more as demonstrated by my occasional ventures into +15 territory.
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post #25388 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 09:17 PM
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Pennynike1 - I'm pretty sure every single one of us that frequent this thread have serious issues. You're near the front though with a pair of OSs and 4 Terraforms! Wow! Bravo!
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post #25389 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 10:16 PM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Hi Mark,

I have some 15DB XLR attenuators I'm not using you can try to see if that helps with the hiss but if changing the gain on the amp doesn't help, then I'm not sure attenuation will either but it won't hurt to try. I'm on vacation out of the country now but back late next week .Let me know if you want to give them a try.




I would love to try those out. Let me know when you get back in town and I'll stop by to pick them up. I'd also love to hear the 215's again as well if you're up for it!
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post #25390 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 11:19 PM
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I would love to try those out. Let me know when you get back in town and I'll stop by to pick them up. I'd also love to hear the 215's again as well if you're up for it!
Of course, I'll ping you when I get back.

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post #25391 of 26689 Old 11-08-2014, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
I would love to try those out. Let me know when you get back in town and I'll stop by to pick them up. I'd also love to hear the 215's again as well if you're up for it!
Make sure to listen to your 212s right before you go over and take a piece of music that you can use to compare. In my opinion there's a tonal difference but that isn't necessarily good or bad. Detail wise I thought they were the same. And as I've said before, the 215RM is my favorite JTR speaker. I'd probably own a pair if they weren't so big and more importantly to me, the tonal difference would drive me nuts as I'd have to keep the 212 as a center. If I could replace all 3 fronts, the tonal difference wouldn't matter.
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post #25392 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Based on everything I've read, most seem to feel the ported 212s have plenty of midbass. It is the sealed 212s that seem to be the ones lacking midbass. Interesting that the sealed 212s were previously listed down to 70 Hz and have just recently been updated on the JTR website with the low end set to 80Hz for the 212 HT-LP.

But regardless...I'm glad you are enjoying your 212s and getting them to pair up with an awesome sub...I'm looking forward to hearing an OS one of these days.
ADSY sets crossover on my LP' s at 90 Hz , so 80' s rolloff seems about right.
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post #25393 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 07:29 AM
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Orbit shifters

I haven't picked up orbit shifters yet. I actually had emailed jeff a while back about the possibility of purchasing 2 of his orbit shifter pros once I had everything set up. He told me that The terraforms likely would provide me enough bass. I then called him to clarify and he encouraged me to test out the terraforms first before trying to incorporate horns with ported subs.

I don't have everything set up yet, so I have yet to have the pleasure yet of even hearing my terraforms. 1 thing i definitely need to do is Need to have an Electrician run dedicated lines.

My only experience with orbit shifters is with the lfu. I have never heard the pro version of the jtr os, nor have I heard the the lf. Everyone around me seems to go the the lfu route. I have heard the lfu several times in single and dual configurations.

Jeff has said in the past that one pro would be the rough equivalent of 2 os lfu above 40 hz. The objective is to have maximum enjoyment of the movie "The Haunting."

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Pennynike1 - I'm pretty sure every single one of us that frequent this thread have serious issues. You're near the front though with a pair of OSs and 4 Terraforms! Wow! Bravo!
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post #25394 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by staaled View Post
ADSY sets crossover on my LP' s at 90 Hz , so 80' s rolloff seems about right.
Yep. My measurements and dlbeck's measurements shows the 80 Hz spec to be accurate...too bad they were wrong for over a year on the sealed 212HT-LP.
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post #25395 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by pennynike1 View Post
Jeff has said in the past that one pro would be the rough equivalent of 2 os lfu above 40 hz. The objective is to have maximum enjoyment of the movie "The Haunting."
Above 20 or 40 is nice and all but what about below 20 where you are made apart of the movies and various explosions? I'm definitely in the below 20 Hz camp as far as strong output. But I know many have said the OS above 20Hz is something to behold.
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post #25396 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by subyguy View Post
Ever do any compression sweeps to see how they hold together at high levels? Any sub can look good when idling...

No, compression sweeps stressed me out enough when I was trying it out with the 8 subs even thought I knew I was amp limited. I definitely don't want to try compression sweeps on my mains.

I don't play my mains as low as the graph above anyway, I have a HPF at 20hz set on the inuke and the subs play from 30hz and down. They blend well as long as I have a 12 db slope on the HPF and a 12 db slope on the LPF for the subs.
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post #25397 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by uopdrmark View Post
Thanks for the feedback dgage. I've heard the 215's at RMK!'s house and they sounded phenomenal to me there. I would have bought them instead of the 212's if they were slightly smaller (and much cheaper!). It's been so long though that it's really hard to remember anything more than that. I really do like the sound of the 212's so far. I don't find them bright at all, but without a A/B comparison I doubt I could tell the difference in top end.


As for keeping the 212's. I've already got the LCR setup on 2 inuke 6000dsp's so I'd only need one more to have the amps for the midbass. I was thinking that I could just run the single input from my integra DHC 80.3 into the inuke and then split the frequencies using it's build in dsp so no minidsp would be needed. (at least that's how I think it will work)


One other issue I have is a very noticeable hiss coming from the speakers with the inuke 6000dsp's. Even with no input in them just running the speaker cable output there is hiss. Changing the gain doesn't help and it doesn't seem to change weather the other equipment is on or not. I don't know if that is just the way it is, or there is something I can do about it. If not I may need to consider changing amps, because the hiss while not loud is distracting during quite scenes. If I plug them into an emotive XPR-5 or another inuke NU4-6000 the hiss goes away so I'm not sure if that is just the way it is with the 6000dsp's. I though I read Carp was using one and I don't remember him saying anything about a hiss so I'm not sure if there is something I can change to help with that or not.


I get hiss if I use an amp on my 212 but no hiss with the 215's. I couldn't figure out a way to get rid of the hiss with the 212's unfortunately... so I just went back to using the avr.
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post #25398 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:07 AM
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I need some help here guys. I'm going to try out the Dirac free trial but to do so I need to use the HDMI out from my computer instead of the optical digital out that I normally use.

So, I hooked up the HDMI out from the computer straight into the AVR (actually it goes computer > powered HDMI splitter > AVR > Projector). The other out from the HDMI splitter goes to a monitor in the back of the room.

I am getting the video from the computer on my projector (using it to type now) but no audio. When I go into the audio device manager here is what I get:

[IMG][/IMG]



I can't enable it since it says it isn't plugged it. I have used HDMI through this same AVR and computer in the past so I know it works but I can't get it to know. I've restarted my computer and tried to update the driver (there was no update) since that's basically I'll I know to try.

Any ideas?

thanks guys
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post #25399 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:15 AM
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I figured it out, I bypassed the HDMI splitter and went straight from the PC to the AVR and now it works.
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post #25400 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
I need some help here guys. I'm going to try out the Dirac free trial but to do so I need to use the HDMI out from my computer instead of the optical digital out that I normally use.

So, I hooked up the HDMI out from the computer straight into the AVR (actually it goes computer > powered HDMI splitter > AVR > Projector). The other out from the HDMI splitter goes to a monitor in the back of the room.

I am getting the video from the computer on my projector (using it to type now) but no audio. When I go into the audio device manager here is what I get:

[IMG][/IMG]



I can't enable it since it says it isn't plugged it. I have used HDMI through this same AVR and computer in the past so I know it works but I can't get it to know. I've restarted my computer and tried to update the driver (there was no update) since that's basically I'll I know to try.

Any ideas?

thanks guys
First thing I would do is take the powered splitter out of the loop. Could be a handshake/HDCP issue.
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post #25401 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:22 AM
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I've thought about the false wall... Only problem is that the room is only 20 feet deep and I'm seating 6 in two rows of 3. I may be able to make it work if I drop the projector back a foot or two and get the receiver / oppo out of the rack and into the wall.

Speaking of the back...I could move the sub to the back corner, behind the seating.
I have a similar situation with an attic space behind my front wall. I have always wanted to flush the screen and mount the speakers (and IB subs)) in that front wall but there is a hip roof on the other side of the wall that doesn't allow for the L&R speakers to be in wall. If you don't have that limitation, that might be a good way for you to go...
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post #25402 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:23 AM
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Hmm it looks like I have to have my projector on or the audio HDMI connection fails. That won't work, i don't want to have the projector on every time I listen to music. Is there a way around this?
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post #25403 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:25 AM
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@carp

I decided a couple of days ago to do exactly what your doing with the free Dirac trial. Ran the calibration, played some music and thought it was much better than Audyssey since I felt it didn't deaden the highs like Audyssey does. I thought I had a winner on my hands.

Then I had @DreamWarrior over the next day to listen to some music and I told him how Dirac was so much better than Audyssey, blah, blah. Well, we listened for a while and then I started turning the Dirac filters on and off and we couldn't tell any difference at all. So no wonder I thought it didn't mess with my highs at all. Apparently, as far as we could tell, it really wasn't doing anything at all in my room . So curious as to your impressions.
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post #25404 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:27 AM
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@carp

I decided a couple of days ago to do exactly what your doing with the free Dirac trial. Ran the calibration, played some music and thought it was much better than Audyssey since I felt it didn't deaden the highs like Audyssey does. I thought I had a winner on my hands.

Then I had @DreamWarrior over the next day to listen to some music and I told him how Dirac was so much better than Audyssey, blah, blah. Well, we listened for a while and then I started turning the Dirac filters on and off and we couldn't tell any difference at all. So no wonder I thought it didn't mess with my highs at all. Apparently, as far as we could tell, it really wasn't doing anything at all in my room . So curious as to your impressions.
What mic did you use for the calibration?
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post #25405 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:29 AM
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Hmm it looks like I have to have my projector on or the audio HDMI connection fails. That won't work, i don't want to have the projector on every time I listen to music. Is there a way around this?
If you're just using Dirac for 2 channel music for evaluation, then run the HDMI out from the AVR to the monitor in the back of your room, not the projector. That would give you the handshake you need.
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post #25406 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:31 AM
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What mic did you use for the calibration?
I used the UMIK-1
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post #25407 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:35 AM
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Carp, after you get the Dirac running it will become your soundcard that you choose and you will see it listed in the Control Panel>Sound window you posted above. Then the Dirac controller will have an output selector and you choose the HDMI out. Hope this helps.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #25408 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
If you're just using Dirac for 2 channel music for evaluation, then run the HDMI out from the AVR to the monitor in the back of your room, not the projector. That would give you the handshake you need.
Thanks!

It works, the audio plays through my avr. What's strange though is I get no picture on the monitor. Fortunately I have remote desktop setup on my laptop which is how I'm typing this right now. I hardly ever use the monitor in the back of the room so it's not a huge issue, and I guess if I want to see the PC image on the projector I can just switch the cords in the next room.

Ok, now I'm all set to try Dirac assuming my omnimic will work. It will have to wait though since I watch football all day on Sundays.
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post #25409 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Carp, after you get the Dirac running it will become your soundcard that you choose and you will see it listed in the Control Panel>Sound window you posted above. Then the Dirac controller will have an output selector and you choose the HDMI out. Hope this helps.
Cool, thanks Lance. We had a heck of a time getting Dirac going at the GTG but now I kind of have an idea of what to do. Looks like a lot of fun just to play with, can't wait to mess with the target curve.
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post #25410 of 26689 Old 11-09-2014, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Carp, after you get the Dirac running it will become your soundcard that you choose and you will see it listed in the Control Panel>Sound window you posted above. Then the Dirac controller will have an output selector and you choose the HDMI out. Hope this helps.
Hmmm. Don't know if I selected any output in the Dirac controller. Maybe that was my problem.
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