Official JTR speaker thread - Page 853 - AVS Forum
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post #25561 of 26747 Old 11-13-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
Not sure about trying to port those sealed cabinents??

I would say run the sealed 212 down to 125hz, keep 2000 watts on them, then run OS pro from 40-125 placed near the front speakers (not neccissarily right underneath but certainly in the front stage area), get the XO, FR and impulse response correct and then just turn dial to +10dB on the main volume and start enjoying your theater wearing adult diapers! Serioulsy that OS pro can hardly be beat for midbass. approx @MLP 142dB (with multiples)!!
If I had a dedicated theater I would have long ago thrown a pair of JBL 2242 midbass drivers in and called it a day(year). Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of a dedicated room, I have a living room theater. If I were to throw in a pair of 18" midbasses, I'd have to remove a pair of 18" subs and I'm not willing to do that. I'm working on a midbass solution with some 12" drivers (4 or 6) recessed into the front wall but the drivers aren't quite ready.
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post #25562 of 26747 Old 11-13-2014, 11:11 PM
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true about the dedicated space and I also agree not worth giving up subs.

Pre-Pro: Emotiva XMC-1, DSP: Mini DSP 2x4 balanced
Amplifier: Sunfire TGA7400, Lab Gruppen FP10000Q
Speakers: JTR Noesis 212HT (LCR), JTR Slant 8's (surrounds), 3 Orbit Shifter LFU's
Sources: PS3, HTPC, Dish Network
Projector: Epson 8350
Screen: Seymour XD AT 138" diagonal 16:9
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post #25563 of 26747 Old 11-13-2014, 11:39 PM
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So here is a REW run with a 7db LS12 boost at 100hz set on the inuke. Green is FR and Red is FL. I have some major peaks and nulls I just have no idea how to deal with that. I currently have only four 2'x4' roxul 3'' acoustic panels on the L and R walls at the first reflection. I am planning on adding R-30 pink fluffy all behind my AT screen and front wall this weekend as well.


I am open to any and all suggestions.
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post #25564 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
Rhed,

The Growler does bass very well from 40hz to 100hz.. which the OS already covers. It's the 80-150hz that's missing... that's the mid bass i am looking for.... the 'slam' in your face, the closing of a door, the drums, etc...

A couple of 18 inch mid bass drivers designed for 80-200hz is perfect for the application.

Anyways, just my opinion on the matter. I am not missing much from 40-80 btw...
Coolgeek... Don't think for once that the subs in the Jtr Pro offering are incapable of 100 and up region. Remember now, Jeff specs are raw. Without EQ. He post the specs where they shine the most. Then he specs -10db@35 hz. That's where they start to fall off. But, he dosen't spec out -10db 120hz and up. Why? The rest in the upper region is up to the user. The pros will always use EQ in their setup. And they'll boost to their desired spectrum. And Jeff knows this. He does not spec, " Warning! Do not EQ boost 100 and up region!". Btw, these pro subs have one thing they are built for... GOOBS of mid bass! The intent of these pro subs are mostly setup at either a huge area. Like a gym, field, or a huge odd shape room. Where 35hz and down will most likely be a moot for the pro users. What they want, is to get the crowd wild. And mid bass will be produce regaurdless enclosed or open area. And the OS pro and the Growlers will deliver. You can read about them if you do some search on the web. Lots of talk within the pro community. Don't forget the pro section in the Jtr forum.. And btw, no one should feed a OS pro or growler with a avr. These are animals with huge appetite.. And now, imagine implementing a couple of OS pro or Growler in a HT room? ITS GAME OVER! Haha!

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post #25565 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
you got it right Rhed. Take the 212HT place it near wall and run 2000 watts into it. Then make sure you have huge bass from 80hz down and now tell me you don't have midbass. I am geting 10dB gain at 125hz. How does over 135dB from 60-120hz sound plus 137 at 22-60 sound? That is what I am measuring. Any other midbass questions?

Btw way your idea about using the OS pro for midbass does intrigue me and it would be crushing. The growler is also a good idea but the OS pro running under LCR 40-125dB (142 dB eaach) would be unbelievable especially with all of your S2's running. You get that set up and you are the undisputed King of the JTR thread (for a while anyway )
Yea, will talk to Jeff about the OS pros when we come up again next year at the Axpona..
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post #25566 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Coolgeek and I have similar thoughts on the sealed 212HT-LP. I like it for music but not as much for home theater due to the lack of midbass.

Lbrown - I'm glad that works for you with your ported 212s but that trick will not give the sealed 212s enough midbass. My screen and speakers are in the closed end of the room with my sealed 212s in each corner. Even when I threw a few thousand watts with an iNuke 6000, it did not magically open up the midbass. The sealed are simply a different animal (-3db down at 80Hz vs the ported's 60Hz). I wish Jeff offered or recommended a replacement 12" for the sealed 212 as I like so much about it except the midbass for home theater. Even though the sealed 212 has HT in its name, I really consider it a music speaker and not a home theater speaker but that is my opinion.

I've thought about gutting my sealed 212 and turning it into a ported 212 but like Coolgeek, I worry about changing the character of the 212 as I like so much about it. Right now, I'm going to see if I can reconfigure my built-in to fit some outboard midbasses.
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If I had a dedicated theater I would have long ago thrown a pair of JBL 2242 midbass drivers in and called it a day(year). Unfortunately, not all of us have the luxury of a dedicated room, I have a living room theater. If I were to throw in a pair of 18" midbasses, I'd have to remove a pair of 18" subs and I'm not willing to do that. I'm working on a midbass solution with some 12" drivers (4 or 6) recessed into the front wall but the drivers aren't quite ready.
While I understand the previous analysis paralysis you encountered with figuring what you were measuring and hearing with the midbass in your room... PLEASE, grab any EQ and try something that has a chance at fixing it!

While the 12s in your speakers aren't going to flex your walls at 20Hz, they still have a LOT of maximum capability. 2x 12" woofers is similar Sd to a single 18". Your primary issue is nothing more than relative balance and starting frequency response. This is what EQ is most effective at fixing. An Audyssey Pro kit or NanoAVR could easily create a shelf to either pull down the top end (-dB high shelf) or lift the bottom ~6dB which would make a dramatic sonic difference. The speakers are so efficient that I would wager that your 212HT-LP is about the same sensitivity, and possibly more, than a 215RT around 100Hz. The difference is just the relative level of the rest of the range. Yes, you might want a little more power after you get the system corrected, but you are dealing with a non-ideal living room with practical limits on treatments and placement, and I suspect you'd be quite surprised at how loud it can still get with the boost in there.

I've seen more than a few modestly treated, narrow rooms that have way too much midbass energy, and heard baffle-wall installs sound very muddy before EQ was applied. I get that you did not expect to need it and would have preferred to know it before your purchase, but it's not like the problem isn't addressable for a lot less than you invested in lab grade measurement equipment. Now that you can take the measurements, give some EQ a chance!
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post #25567 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Coolgeek and I have similar thoughts on the sealed 212HT-LP. I like it for music but not as much for home theater due to the lack of midbass.

Lbrown - I'm glad that works for you with your ported 212s but that trick will not give the sealed 212s enough midbass. My screen and speakers are in the closed end of the room with my sealed 212s in each corner. Even when I threw a few thousand watts with an iNuke 6000, it did not magically open up the midbass. The sealed are simply a different animal (-3db down at 80Hz vs the ported's 60Hz). I wish Jeff offered or recommended a replacement 12" for the sealed 212 as I like so much about it except the midbass for home theater. Even though the sealed 212 has HT in its name, I really consider it a music speaker and not a home theater speaker but that is my opinion.

I've thought about gutting my sealed 212 and turning it into a ported 212 but like Coolgeek, I worry about changing the character of the 212 as I like so much about it. Right now, I'm going to see if I can reconfigure my built-in to fit some outboard midbasses.
You read me exactly right dgage...

Since I love my music now as much as I love my movies, i am going to not mess with the 212 LP and if i ever need to (and if i can somehow trap all the sounds inside my basement), i'll just simply add 2-3 'sealed 18s' as mid bass modules. Again, as a personal preference, i like my speakers sealed.. i don't expect anyone else to agree with me on this...


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Coolgeek... Don't think for once that the subs in the Jtr Pro offering are incapable of 100 and up region. Remember now, Jeff specs are raw. Without EQ. He post the specs where they shine the most. Then he specs -10db@35 hz. That's where they start to fall off. But, he dosen't spec out -10db 120hz and up. Why? The rest in the upper region is up to the user. The pros will always use EQ in their setup. And they'll boost to their desired spectrum. And Jeff knows this. He does not spec, " Warning! Do not EQ boost 100 and up region!". Btw, these pro subs have one thing they are built for... GOOBS of mid bass! The intent of these pro subs are mostly setup at either a huge area. Like a gym, field, or a huge odd shape room. Where 35hz and down will most likely be a moot for the pro users. What they want, is to get the crowd wild. And mid bass will be produce regaurdless enclosed or open area. And the OS pro and the Growlers will deliver. You can read about them if you do some search on the web. Lots of talk within the pro community. Don't forget the pro section in the Jtr forum.. And btw, no one should feed a OS pro or growler with a avr. These are animals with huge appetite.. And now, imagine implementing a couple of OS pro or Growler in a HT room? ITS GAME OVER! Haha!
Rhed, I am sure you're probably right on the Growlers. I would never doubt the capability of JTR after owning their OS... however, on the website it's clearly written that the growler is down 2dB at 115hz. The OS Pro might actually be the better option if one were looking for mid bass.
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post #25568 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 06:52 AM
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I just read that Wisconsin has gotten like 4 feet of snow LOL. I don't know how you guys do it up there.
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post #25569 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 07:19 AM
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I just read that Wisconsin has gotten like 4 feet of snow LOL. I don't know how you guys do it up there.
Me either and I was born and grew up in PA but have lived in Florida for 22 years now....there's no going back to that snow for me. I call ed my mom yesterday and she was telling me about all the snow that's falling there now and I was sitting in my house with the AC running and today will be a balmy 70 degrees.

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post #25570 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 07:29 AM
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Me either and I was born and grew up in PA but have lived in Florida for 22 years now....there's no going back to that snow for me. I call ed my mom yesterday and she was telling me about all the snow that's falling there now and I was sitting in my house with the AC running and today will be a balmy 70 degrees.
I don't like the heat, it was in the high 60's and humid two days ago and it was to hot for me. I have always wanted to live in Florida, but I know I would hate it and move back. We don't get much snow here at all, maybe one or two dumping's a year and some years none. I like the four seasons. Central California might be my ideal weather.

Also did you read my response to your question about the Single 8's in my theater thread?

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post #25571 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 07:45 AM
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I don't like the heat, it was in the high 60's and humid two days ago and it was to hot for me. I have always wanted to live in Florida, but I know I would hate it and move back. We don't get much snow here at all, maybe one or two dumping's a year and some years none. I like the four seasons. Central California might be my ideal weather.

Also did you read my response to your question about the Single 8's in my theater thread?
Yes I did and thank you for the info and pictures. I think I replied back saying I'd be too scared to drill into the cabinets...I don't trust myself. How high are your S8's mounted? I couldn't find that info (might have missed it) in your thread.


And I do understand the heat because in the summer, sometimes it's almost unbearable going outside but I'll take this weather over the cold and snow.

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post #25572 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 08:04 AM
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Yes I did and thank you for the info and pictures. I think I replied back saying I'd be too scared to drill into the cabinets...I don't trust myself. How high are your S8's mounted? I couldn't find that info (might have missed it) in your thread.


And I do understand the heat because in the summer, sometimes it's almost unbearable going outside but I'll take this weather over the cold and snow.
The bottom of the S8's cabs are about 6'4 inches from the floor, just enough so I don't hit my head if I walk under them. I know everyone would not be comfortable drilling into the cabs, but like I said, the slanted 8's are meant to be mounted and I mounted them. If I ever sell them, I will sell them with the mounts. It really is easy to do. I just made my measurements on all the cabs and made my marks and just used a drill and screwed a screw in, rather easy, the screws tap in really easy. I actually used sheet metal screws, I imagine wood screws would have been easier but the sheet metal screws tapped in nicely. The reason I used sheet metal screws is I wanted a flat head screw and all the wood screws had a beveled head, I just could not find any in the size I wanted with a larger flat head. The crossover network is at the bottom, so I stayed away from that part of the cabinet. I was reading Jeffs forums and he has mounting ideas listed. In post #4 he says that he can customize the S8's with threaded inserts for mounting hardware. That would be the way go as he has a few mounts listed that are nice, that is if they are still available. If I would have read this before I got mine, I would have gone this route. The Axiom full metal bracket would be perfect with a threaded insert as that is how Axiom does it with their surrounds and the full metal bracket.

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post #25573 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 08:35 AM
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Who has ported 212HTs closest to east Tennessee? After reading Lbrown's and others comments about plenty of midbass, I want to put the sealed head to head against the ported so we can put this thing to rest. I'll bring a pair of sealed 212s so we can test them head to head. I hate reading about how happy people are with the midbass of the ported 212s and feeling like I got the ugly, mean step sister.
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post #25574 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Who has ported 212HTs closest to east Tennessee? After reading Lbrown's and others comments about plenty of midbass, I want to put the sealed head to head against the ported so we can put this thing to rest. I'll bring a pair of sealed 212s so we can test them head to head. I hate reading about how happy people are with the midbass of the ported 212s and feeling like I got the ugly, mean step sister.
You and/or coach can always come visit beautiful warm (not) Cincinnati I should have them for at least another month or two.
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post #25575 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 09:08 AM
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Who has ported 212HTs closest to east Tennessee? After reading Lbrown's and others comments about plenty of midbass, I want to put the sealed head to head against the ported so we can put this thing to rest. I'll bring a pair of sealed 212s so we can test them head to head. I hate reading about how happy people are with the midbass of the ported 212s and feeling like I got the ugly, mean step sister.
Dude, don't be shy. Pop a good 10dB low shelf on those bad boys starting at around 150hz with a rise through 80hz and let em eat. You won't kill anything, will still likely have power in the tank, and it might surprise you. Think Sd of a single 18" midbass, in a sealed box the size of that 212 (which is what, at least 2 cuft?). You already have enough capability, you just have to coax it out a little

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post #25576 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Who has ported 212HTs closest to east Tennessee? After reading Lbrown's and others comments about plenty of midbass, I want to put the sealed head to head against the ported so we can put this thing to rest. I'll bring a pair of sealed 212s so we can test them head to head. I hate reading about how happy people are with the midbass of the ported 212s and feeling like I got the ugly, mean step sister.
All this midbass talk has me wondering if I'm missing something on my ported 212...I'm even thinking I should run the lcr on amps and see what happens. I'm in NoVA...Chantilly, VA...if you want to come by with your LP's. Don't know who else is closer to Tennessee. Edit: I see Cincinnati is an option.

Should I pick up an emo xpa-3 or something else?

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for sale/trade: Final Price Drop ~ BNIB LG OLED Curved TV 55EA9800 ~Best Black Levels Ever~ 3-yr Extended Warranty Included
ht: LCR JTR 212HT~Surr. Four JTR 8LP~Hi/Wi Four Elemental Designs Cinema 6 eD6c~Subs Two JTR Orbit Shifter LFU~AV Marantz SR7008

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post #25577 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 09:24 AM
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I'm a bigger fan of the Dsonics. Actually I am the biggest fan of the Dsonics.
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post #25578 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 10:11 AM
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I'm a bigger fan of the Dsonics. Actually I am the biggest fan of the Dsonics.
Ah, yes. I remember you or someone mentioning these before.

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post #25579 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 11:52 AM
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All this midbass talk has me wondering if I'm missing something on my ported 212...I'm even thinking I should run the lcr on amps and see what happens. I'm in NoVA...Chantilly, VA...if you want to come by with your LP's. Don't know who else is closer to Tennessee. Edit: I see Cincinnati is an option.

Should I pick up an emo xpa-3 or something else?
Do you have any measurements to see if you are missing anything? Maybe you're all good and don't have to buy an amp. You're supposed to be able to run the 212HT's to insane levels with a receiver anyway. Take your saved money and buy more OS's...you only have 2 buddy.....take the next step to 3 or 4!!!!!!


Midbass....solved.

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post #25580 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 12:30 PM
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Do you have any measurements to see if you are missing anything? Maybe you're all good and don't have to buy an amp. You're supposed to be able to run the 212HT's to insane levels with a receiver anyway. Take your saved money and buy more OS's...you only have 2 buddy.....take the next step to 3 or 4!!!!!!


Midbass....solved.
Not really since you'll still have the 80hz - 200hz region that some feel is lacking. 2 x 12's may equal an 18 in sd but it's an 18" with 6mm xmax..... Having had both, I can say for 100% certainty that the 2242's powered with 1000 watts obliterated the 212lp's midbass even with the 212's with a 6dB gain from 180hz down to 70hz. Not even close. They measured 4-5 dB better across the entire range. The ported 212's are a different matter, they would be about equal unless you had the 2242 in a ported box... Then again, you'd gain a good bit over them.

Blasting brown notes for 10 years and counting!

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post #25581 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 12:46 PM
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Do you have any measurements to see if you are missing anything? Maybe you're all good and don't have to buy an amp. You're supposed to be able to run the 212HT's to insane levels with a receiver anyway. Take your saved money and buy more OS's...you only have 2 buddy.....take the next step to 3 or 4!!!!!!


Midbass....solved.
No measurents yet...some guy stole the omnimic I borrowed. Working to get new tools. I totally agree though...I don't need amps for insanity...just curious now. Maybe ignorance is bliss in this case, because I think I get plenty of slam...likely don't need anything. But will measure to verify.

I was this[emoji108]close to getting 2 more OS last month, but I think my wife will hurt me...oh, and I'll have some space limits. It's always on my mind and I may one day...

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post #25582 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:07 PM
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So are the 215RT's as close to music heaven one can get without breaking the bank?

Is the regular finish on the speakers nice or do you go for the automotive finish?
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post #25583 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I understand the previous analysis paralysis you encountered with figuring what you were measuring and hearing with the midbass in your room... PLEASE, grab any EQ and try something that has a chance at fixing it!

While the 12s in your speakers aren't going to flex your walls at 20Hz, they still have a LOT of maximum capability. 2x 12" woofers is similar Sd to a single 18". Your primary issue is nothing more than relative balance and starting frequency response. This is what EQ is most effective at fixing. An Audyssey Pro kit or NanoAVR could easily create a shelf to either pull down the top end (-dB high shelf) or lift the bottom ~6dB which would make a dramatic sonic difference. The speakers are so efficient that I would wager that your 212HT-LP is about the same sensitivity, and possibly more, than a 215RT around 100Hz. The difference is just the relative level of the rest of the range. Yes, you might want a little more power after you get the system corrected, but you are dealing with a non-ideal living room with practical limits on treatments and placement, and I suspect you'd be quite surprised at how loud it can still get with the boost in there.

I've seen more than a few modestly treated, narrow rooms that have way too much midbass energy, and heard baffle-wall installs sound very muddy before EQ was applied. I get that you did not expect to need it and would have preferred to know it before your purchase, but it's not like the problem isn't addressable for a lot less than you invested in lab grade measurement equipment. Now that you can take the measurements, give some EQ a chance!




@dgage , I had assumed that you had already tried to EQ you 212's - if not I would definitely try it first before looking at any other options especially since you like the mid range and highs on the 212's so much. You could have a quick/free/easy solution!! Well... assuming you have a device to EQ them with. Don't you have an inukedsp?
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post #25584 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
you got it right Rhed. Take the 212HT place it near wall and run 2000 watts into it. Then make sure you have huge bass from 80hz down and now tell me you don't have midbass. I am geting 10dB gain at 125hz. How does over 135dB from 60-120hz sound plus 137 at 22-60 sound? That is what I am measuring. Any other midbass questions?
Lbrown - I know you said the 212HT but anytime I see a post like this, I want to clarify that you mean the ported not sealed. I don't want anyone in the future to get them confused. I was so frustrated when everytime I would post someone would say the 212s have plenty of midbass, it must be your room. Even more frustrating was on the JTR website, the sealed 212HT-LPs were listed down to 70Hz, which my measurements did not back up. They have since been updated to the more accurate 80-24000Hz but that is quite a bit different than the 60-24000Hz of the ported 212HT.

Listen, I'm tired of hearing me talk about the sealed 212 midbass or lack thereof, I know everyone else sure as hell is as well. I just don't want anyone in the future to buy the sealed 212 thinking they will get the same midbass as the ported. (See N8DOGGs post below).

Of the people that I know of that have the 212HT-LP, here are their impressions based on my interpretation.
  • 7channelfreak - Trying to sell his sealed 212s to buy 215s.
  • Coolgeek - Is thinking of buying midbasses to add to his sealed 212s.
  • Dgage - Thinks the sealed 212s don't have enough midbass
  • Dlbeck - Knew exactly what he was getting into and planned for additional midbass modules from the beginning.
  • N8DOGG - Didn't think the sealed 212s had enough midbass and bought 215s.
I've heard plenty of people say the ported 212s have plenty of midbass; heard from too many actually. I've never once heard someone say the sealed 212 has plenty of midbass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post
While I understand the previous analysis paralysis you encountered with figuring what you were measuring and hearing with the midbass in your room... PLEASE, grab any EQ and try something that has a chance at fixing it!

While the 12s in your speakers aren't going to flex your walls at 20Hz, they still have a LOT of maximum capability. 2x 12" woofers is similar Sd to a single 18". Your primary issue is nothing more than relative balance and starting frequency response. This is what EQ is most effective at fixing. An Audyssey Pro kit or NanoAVR could easily create a shelf to either pull down the top end (-dB high shelf) or lift the bottom ~6dB which would make a dramatic sonic difference. The speakers are so efficient that I would wager that your 212HT-LP is about the same sensitivity, and possibly more, than a 215RT around 100Hz. The difference is just the relative level of the rest of the range. Yes, you might want a little more power after you get the system corrected, but you are dealing with a non-ideal living room with practical limits on treatments and placement, and I suspect you'd be quite surprised at how loud it can still get with the boost in there.

I've seen more than a few modestly treated, narrow rooms that have way too much midbass energy, and heard baffle-wall installs sound very muddy before EQ was applied. I get that you did not expect to need it and would have preferred to know it before your purchase, but it's not like the problem isn't addressable for a lot less than you invested in lab grade measurement equipment. Now that you can take the measurements, give some EQ a chance!
Mark - I didn't respond initially as you bring up some good points and I've been thinking about your post for the past few hours as I was driving to/from my parent's house.

I know what a pair of 12" speakers should do. I liked my bass and rap music when I was in high school and was ecstatic with a single, tight Boston Acoustics Pro 10" sub. All I can tell you is that I haven't been able to get my SEALED 212s to do what I think a pair of 12" drivers should be able to do. I'm not expecting Cat12 or 215 level midbass but damn it sounds anemic. This is being harsh but compared to the rest of my system, the midbass is just in a different league, like entry level minor leagues, while the rest of the 212 is most definitely in the major leagues. It's a shame really.

One interesting thing about thinking about your post on the drive was how much emotion I feel related to the 212s. Apparently, I'm really pissed about feeling deceived by the 70Hz number. I'm pissed that I will have to take a bath to get rid of them. And with that said, I think the emotion will block me from ever being able to enjoy my 212s. That really sucks to come to that realization. I've tried to be positive, especially toward the 215RM, which I think is a really nice speaker. I guess I just need to suck up the loss and sale the 212s. I don't want to and it pisses me off but apparently that is what I will need to do.

Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Not really since you'll still have the 80hz - 200hz region that some feel is lacking. 2 x 12's may equal an 18 in sd but it's an 18" with 6mm xmax..... Having had both, I can say for 100% certainty that the 2242's powered with 1000 watts obliterated the 212lp's midbass even with the 212's with a 6dB gain from 180hz down to 70hz. Not even close. They measured 4-5 dB better across the entire range. The ported 212's are a different matter, they would be about equal unless you had the 2242 in a ported box... Then again, you'd gain a good bit over them.
Thanks for sharing N8. My measurements have shown the same.
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post #25585 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AVSF458 View Post
So are the 215RT's as close to music heaven one can get without breaking the bank?

Is the regular finish on the speakers nice or do you go for the automotive finish?

For my ears they are but it depends on each individual. Some might love the sound of something with a ribbon tweeter like Salks for example.

If I get a chance tonight I'll take some up close pictures of the finish. It's like all the other JTR speakers, very durable looking and I like the look BUT I'd love to have the automotive finish I think it looks B/A. However, then I would get more reflection from the screen so it's all give and take.
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post #25586 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by carp View Post
@dgage , I had assumed that you had already tried to EQ you 212's - if not I would definitely try it first before looking at any other options especially since you like the mid range and highs on the 212's so much. You could have a quick/free/easy solution!! Well... assuming you have a device to EQ them with. Don't you have an inukedsp?
I have a MiniDSP NanoAVR and all I can say is I've tried and wasn't impressed with what I heard. Frankly, even boosting quite a bit, I couldn't get the 212 to do much with 300w. With the NanoAVR and the iNuke 6000, the boost actually did something on the 212s but not much. I wasn't impressed. That was just working with the 212 by itself; I've got a few different speakers around the house (S8s, NHT IC4 ceiling speakers, Focal Sib XL) that I'll look to play with compared to the sealed 212 and see how the different speakers respond to boost.

I'll also see if Coach wants to plan a day at Frohlich's. If not, I may just make the 4 hour 1-way drive so we can put the difference to bed...I'm tired of talking about it...I know everyone's tired of hearing it.
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post #25587 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Not really since you'll still have the 80hz - 200hz region that some feel is lacking. 2 x 12's may equal an 18 in sd but it's an 18" with 6mm xmax..... Having had both, I can say for 100% certainty that the 2242's powered with 1000 watts obliterated the 212lp's midbass even with the 212's with a 6dB gain from 180hz down to 70hz. Not even close. They measured 4-5 dB better across the entire range. The ported 212's are a different matter, they would be about equal unless you had the 2242 in a ported box... Then again, you'd gain a good bit over them.
N8DOGG - I've never seen the 12" drivers in my sealed 212 move. What good is 6mm of Xmax if they only move a few mm?
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post #25588 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
You and/or coach can always come visit beautiful warm (not) Cincinnati I should have them for at least another month or two.
You've got a PM.
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post #25589 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Lbrown - I know you said the 212HT but anytime I see a post like this, I want to clarify that you mean the ported not sealed. I don't want anyone in the future to get them confused. I was so frustrated when everytime I would post someone would say the 212s have plenty of midbass, it must be your room. Even more frustrating was on the JTR website, the sealed 212HT-LPs were listed down to 70Hz, which my measurements did not back up. They have since been updated to the more accurate 80-24000Hz but that is quite a bit different than the 60-24000Hz of the ported 212HT.

Listen, I'm tired of hearing me talk about the sealed 212 midbass or lack thereof, I know everyone else sure as hell is as well. I just don't want anyone in the future to buy the sealed 212 thinking they will get the same midbass as the ported. (See N8DOGGs post below).

Of the people that I know of that have the 212HT-LP, here are their impressions based on my interpretation.
  • 7channelfreak - Trying to sell his sealed 212s to buy 215s.
  • Coolgeek - Is thinking of buying midbasses to add to his sealed 212s.
  • Dgage - Thinks the sealed 212s don't have enough midbass
  • Dlbeck - Knew exactly what he was getting into and planned for additional midbass modules from the beginning.
  • N8DOGG - Didn't think the sealed 212s had enough midbass and bought 215s.
I've heard plenty of people say the ported 212s have plenty of midbass; heard from too many actually. I've never once heard someone say the sealed 212 has plenty of midbass.



Mark - I didn't respond initially as you bring up some good points and I've been thinking about your post for the past few hours as I was driving to/from my parent's house.

I know what a pair of 12" speakers should do. I liked my bass and rap music when I was in high school and was ecstatic with a single, tight Boston Acoustics Pro 10" sub. All I can tell you is that I haven't been able to get my SEALED 212s to do what I think a pair of 12" drivers should be able to do. I'm not expecting Cat12 or 215 level midbass but damn it sounds anemic. This is being harsh but compared to the rest of my system, the midbass is just in a different league, like entry level minor leagues, while the rest of the 212 is most definitely in the major leagues. It's a shame really.

One interesting thing about thinking about your post on the drive was how much emotion I feel related to the 212s. Apparently, I'm really pissed about feeling deceived by the 70Hz number. I'm pissed that I will have to take a bath to get rid of them. And with that said, I think the emotion will block me from ever being able to enjoy my 212s. That really sucks to come to that realization. I've tried to be positive, especially toward the 215RM, which I think is a really nice speaker. I guess I just need to suck up the loss and sale the 212s. I don't want to and it pisses me off but apparently that is what I will need to do.



Thanks for sharing N8. My measurements have shown the same.
LOL, here is what he thought about on the drive for the past few hours >Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass,MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass,Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass, Midbass, Midbass Midbass,Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass
Nabs17, Frohlich and dgage like this.

Last edited by Reefdvr27; 11-14-2014 at 01:44 PM.
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post #25590 of 26747 Old 11-14-2014, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Reefdvr27 View Post
LOL, here was he thought on the drive>Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass MidbassMidbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass, Midbass Midbass
Dammit, my stomach hurts now from laughing so much.
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