Official JTR speaker thread - Page 862 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #25831 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Ya, JBL makes great drivers but they are priced beyond insane if you are buying singles. $800-$1000 for a new 2242h.... What on earth are they smoking lol. I paid 400$ each for some used ones before I found my score of 300$ each used. @400$, I'd consider them to be a decent deal. Their markup is beyond what most would imagine possible, that 800$ 2242h costs less than 130$ to make....... They are even worse than Car audio stuff. I bought my 2 kicker 10" L7's in my truck for 63$ each new from my kicker rep at Visions but they JBL markup makes that look like I'm overpaying hahaha
I think JBL is more interested in selling speakers than drivers. In that case you just charge whatever you want
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post #25832 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:40 AM
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Well I paid like 250 Euro for a Beyma 21SW1600ND
So indeed the JBL pricing is insane. in the past lots of EV and JBL parts were used in "PA land" but things have changed quite a bit

is not the low tuning and the technical design of, for example the 215, causing the "lack" of midbass for some people in this thread ?
2x15" cabinet that needs to dig down deep and loud and the the coax compression driver needs to start low as well. Okay the BMS will do it, just like for example Community's M200 / M4 driver.....

For example Turbosound does not like to use compression drivers to start that low, they prefer cones.

Perhaps another cone driver to assist in the design to boost midbass?
Never experienced a JTR cabinet, so do not get me wrong, no bashing my friends.
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post #25833 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As far as room treatments, one of the funniest posts I ever read on this thread was when someone said they had a "fat" friend over and was moving him around the room as a bass trap...might have been beast??? Maybe just have a hefty friend over whenever you crank up your system
The original post must have been hilarious because yours was pretty damn funny.
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post #25834 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
Reading bold from top to bottom is a prime example of cause and effect.

BTW, we call them bio bass traps.
Luckily, after Skyline, we will be moving a few hundred pounds of speakers around so maybe it won't affect us too much.
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post #25835 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:52 AM
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@subbass
The discussion on "lack of midbass" is specifically related to the 212ht-LP http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...thread-6035610


The 215RT is the Doctors Full range prescription for "lack of midbass" http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...eakers-6631501
Anyone who buys a pair has this disorder cured immediately.
You can read an owners impression here. http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...-owner-6911197


The 15" drivers are custom built to handle 18hz - 350hz. It is then XO to the 4593.

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Last edited by countryWV; 11-20-2014 at 12:00 PM.
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post #25836 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
I think JBL is more interested in selling speakers than drivers. In that case you just charge whatever you want
true but they are beyond insane with their pricing.....imagine if you ever have to buy a driver for your M2's lol

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post #25837 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
The 215RT is the Doctors Full range prescription for "lack of midbass" http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...eakers-6631501
Anyone who buys a pair has this disorder cured immediately.
I'll give that one a hell ya! lol
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post #25838 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
true but they are beyond insane with their pricing.....imagine if you ever have to buy a driver for your M2's lol
I'm not worried about it. I'm committed already. And I have to say that JBL support has exceeded my expectations by far and I am willing to pay for the demonstrated performance, testing, and engineering behind it all. But that's me, everyone has there own priorities.
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post #25839 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
Ya, JBL makes great drivers but they are priced beyond insane if you are buying singles. $800-$1000 for a new 2242h.... What on earth are they smoking lol. I paid 400$ each for some used ones before I found my score of 300$ each used. @400$, I'd consider them to be a decent deal. Their markup is beyond what most would imagine possible, that 800$ 2242h costs less than 130$ to make....... They are even worse than Car audio stuff. I bought my 2 kicker 10" L7's in my truck for 63$ each new from my kicker rep at Visions but they JBL markup makes that look like I'm overpaying hahaha
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true but they are beyond insane with their pricing.....imagine if you ever have to buy a driver for your M2's lol
Well they have to pay for the higher labor costs after moving from California to Mexico. I mean everyone knows CA is the home of cheap labor!

Mind blowing that during the rare-earth crunch (Thanks China) JBL basically doubled to price of raw drivers, crazy when the drivers typically used by DIYers were not Neo.

yes, I am still little pissed. I am sure they don't care, and it wont stop me from buying JBL in the future (which probably factors into their not caring).
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post #25840 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As far as room treatments, one of the funniest posts I ever read on this thread was when someone said they had a "fat" friend over and was moving him around the room as a bass trap...might have been beast??? Maybe just have a hefty friend over whenever you crank up your system
Muscle has a higher absorption coefficient than fat. Best bass I ever had was when Archaea was in the room.
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post #25841 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As far as room treatments, one of the funniest posts I ever read on this thread was when someone said they had a "fat" friend over and was moving him around the room as a bass trap...might have been beast??? Maybe just have a hefty friend over whenever you crank up your system
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
Muscle has a higher absorption coefficient than fat. Best bass I ever had was when Archaea was in the room.
I was casually reading in my careless nature, and my mind merged these two quotes into:
As far as room treatments, one of the funniest posts I ever read on this thread was when someone said they had a "fat" friend over, best bass I ever had was when Archaea was in the room.

For a split second I was thinking dam DD that's quite a burn!

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post #25842 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by countryWV View Post
@subbass
The discussion on "lack of midbass" is specifically related to the 212ht-LP http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...thread-6035610


The 215RT is the Doctors Full range prescription for "lack of midbass" http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...eakers-6631501
Anyone who buys a pair has this disorder cured immediately.
You can read an owners impression here. http://jtrspeakers.websitetoolbox.co...-owner-6911197


The 15" drivers are custom built to handle 18hz - 350hz. It is then XO to the 4593.
I'd just like to point out that the 215RM is one hell of a midbass/bass monster too as long as you use it with a subwoofer. The 215RM is one of my favorite speakers, with my personal caveat is that it sounds a little different on the upper end than the 212. Not better, not worse, just a little more laid back than the forward 212.

For home theater with someone that already has a strong sub system, I'd say the 215RM is the sweet spot. If you like music more or haven't been bitten by the AVS subwoofer system bug yet, the 215RT is definitely an awesome refrigerator, I mean speaker.
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post #25843 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 04:52 PM
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Lol

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post #25844 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 05:45 PM
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How high are you guys putting the horns of your 212ht's? Trying to determine how high mine need to be off the stage. Is there vertical dispersion of the horn pretty good?
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post #25845 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 06:00 PM
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The 212-lp (sealed) gives up 6dbs output to the 212ht (ported) model from 80hz - 150hz. In this comparison the LP lacks around 6 dbs output in midbass FR vs the HT.

The BMS 4593 is the CD being used. The XO is 400 hz

In general I do not feel like any JTR speakers lack midbass but since this is a thread of excess I understand those who feel like they want more.
Logically speaking, if the 212s ported is considered 'flat', then the LP giving up 6dB is not. And 6dB is a HUGE number, so if A is just enough mid-bass, then B is way, way down.

So, it's not excess to say 'the LP lacks midbass' in that context.

Now, on the other hand, for someone like me, until I owned the LP version, i have not even experienced speakers with the LP's (down 6dB) mid bass. Other speakers (those hi-fi type towers) I used to own have even less mid bass (at least at reference). So, for me, and for my music listening, the LP version of the 212 is perfect. Just that for movies, it's still 'lacking something'... and no issue there because like everyone said it can be fixed by DSP, Equalizer plus wall boundaries.
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post #25846 of 29114 Old 11-20-2014, 07:15 PM
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Logically speaking, if the 212s ported is considered 'flat', then the LP giving up 6dB is not. And 6dB is a HUGE number, so if A is just enough mid-bass, then B is way, way down.

So, it's not excess to say 'the LP lacks midbass' in that context.

Now, on the other hand, for someone like me, until I owned the LP version, i have not even experienced speakers with the LP's (down 6dB) mid bass. Other speakers (those hi-fi type towers) I used to own have even less mid bass (at least at reference). So, for me, and for my music listening, the LP version of the 212 is perfect. Just that for movies, it's still 'lacking something'... and no issue there because like everyone said it can be fixed by DSP, Equalizer plus wall boundaries.
It has been mentioned a few times but I feel like it keeps getting lost.

The sealed version of the 212 is meant to be placed right next to the wall. When I talked to Jeff back when I was buying the 212's he said the only reason to buy the sealed is if you are short on space and they need to be placed next to the wall to get a boost in the low end.
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post #25847 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 02:23 AM
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It has been mentioned a few times but I feel like it keeps getting lost.

The sealed version of the 212 is meant to be placed right next to the wall. When I talked to Jeff back when I was buying the 212's he said the only reason to buy the sealed is if you are short on space and they need to be placed next to the wall to get a boost in the low end.
Carp, you're right of course in that the Sealed version is meant to be placed near a boundary. Jeff have said this to me as well. I have known this because i asked Jeff before I made my purchases and I have no issue with my 212 and in fact loves it to death and you'll have to pry it off my dead hands.

However, what's lost in translation is that many here on the forum believe the 212 LP is flat and I have heard many said this many times. It is not. Saying it's flat is just inaccurate and can cause some potential buyers to make the wrong decision. That's why it's important to always allow people to speak their opinions without having to worry about being flamed.

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post #25848 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 05:01 AM
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How high are you guys putting the horns of your 212ht's? Trying to determine how high mine need to be off the stage. Is there vertical dispersion of the horn pretty good?
Ideally, the horns would be at ear height. If they need to go much higher, the ideal would be to angle the speakers down.

Going a little bit off from this should be okay, but the further off you get, the more the quality will start to suffer.
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post #25849 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by rcohen View Post
Ideally, the horns would be at ear height. If they need to go much higher, the ideal would be to angle the speakers down.

Going a little bit off from this should be okay, but the further off you get, the more the quality will start to suffer.
+1

Seated ear height is best. I found that with the horn center @ 44" off of the floor it was a bit too high. My 212's were on top of Great Grammas on top of OS's.

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post #25850 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 07:23 AM
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Carp, you're right of course in that the Sealed version is meant to be placed near a boundary. Jeff have said this to me as well. I have known this because i asked Jeff before I made my purchases and I have no issue with my 212 and in fact loves it to death and you'll have to pry it off my dead hands.

However, what's lost in translation is that many here on the forum believe the 212 LP is flat and I have heard many said this many times. It is not. Saying it's flat is just inaccurate and can cause some potential buyers to make the wrong decision. That's why it's important to always allow people to speak their opinions without having to worry about being flamed.

It will often measure flat in-room with boundary gain. That plus the smaller cabinet size is the point of all of the LP models ...
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post #25851 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:05 AM
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Okay so I just got my Jtr noesis 228s. I can't believe how fast they got tomy house, literally less than 24hrs! That's amazing.

I'm a little unprepared for theese to get here so fast so I don't even have a amp for em yet. I do have my inuke 6000 but can I use that with my speakers? I've never had speakers before that needed am amp so I'm really in the dark with this. Do they make 3 Channel amps or do I need to buy an amp for each?

In the mean time what is the minimum I can run theese with ? Can I just plug em to receiver for temp. Just give em a listen. I think its about 100watts per channel..

HELP

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post #25852 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:07 AM
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Okay so I just got my Jtr noesis 228s. I can't believe how fast they got tomy house, literally less than 24hrs! That's amazing.

I'm a little unprepared for theese to get here so fast so I don't even have a amp for em yet. I do have my inuke 6000 but can I use that with my speakers? I've never had speakers before that needed am amp so I'm really in the dark with this. Do they make 3 Channel amps or do I need to buy an amp for each?

In the mean time what is the minimum I can run theese with ? Can I just plug em to receiver for temp. Just give em a listen. I think its about 100watts per channel..

HELP
By all means hook them up to your AVR and give them a listen. It may be all you need ...

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post #25853 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:09 AM
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Okay so I just got my Jtr noesis 228s. I can't believe how fast they got tomy house, literally less than 24hrs! That's amazing.

I'm a little unprepared for theese to get here so fast so I don't even have a amp for em yet. I do have my inuke 6000 but can I use that with my speakers? I've never had speakers before that needed am amp so I'm really in the dark with this. Do they make 3 Channel amps or do I need to buy an amp for each?

In the mean time what is the minimum I can run theese with ? Can I just plug em to receiver for temp. Just give em a listen. I think its about 100watts per channel..

HELP
AVR is likely all you'll need. I went from very old AVR to dedicated 2000 watts / channel amp back to new AVR and never went back to dedicated amps.
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post #25854 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:24 AM
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It has been mentioned a few times but I feel like it keeps getting lost.

The sealed version of the 212 is meant to be placed right next to the wall. When I talked to Jeff back when I was buying the 212's he said the only reason to buy the sealed is if you are short on space and they need to be placed next to the wall to get a boost in the low end.
True, but at least from my experience with the regular ported T12's I had, I had them in the corner and STILL felt I needed more midbass at times. This is when you get into preference area though, not reference flat.

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post #25855 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:29 AM
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That's awesome news guys! I was freaking out that I didn't have an amp but wanted hear Theese speakers sooooo bad!

I'll give it whirl and let you guys know what I think of em a little later
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7.3 w/ denon x4100
JTR noesis 228s LCR
Ascend acoustics cmt 340se side ss.
ascend acoustics cbm170se rear ss
Dual rythmik fv15hps/ 1 LV12r
Verticle Marty/UXL 18 powered with inuke 6kw DSP (and another Marty in the making)
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post #25856 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 08:49 AM
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That's awesome news guys! I was freaking out that I didn't have an amp but wanted hear Theese speakers sooooo bad!

I'll give it whirl and let you guys know what I think of em a little later
Unless you are seated 15 feet away or something, those speakers will easily hit reference off of AVR power, and do it with ease. You should have no issue playing movies at reference with those

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post #25857 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 09:13 AM
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Unless you are seated 15 feet away or something, those speakers will easily hit reference off of AVR power, and do it with ease. You should have no issue playing movies at reference with those
Agreed. I'm about 7ft from an LCR of S8's and I watch every movie at or around reference (+2/-2 MV) powered off a Pio SC-35. Not a hint of stress! No bad sounds, no clipping that I can detect.


Btw beast.. just saw the pics you posted in the Falcon thread. I'm drooling over hear man.. I just received my RS4910 a few weeks ago and don't even have it outta the box yet! I was settled on the Falcon HD screen until I got wind of the Horizon.. so thanks for the feedback
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post #25858 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 09:19 AM
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Carp, you're right of course in that the Sealed version is meant to be placed near a boundary. Jeff have said this to me as well. I have known this because i asked Jeff before I made my purchases and I have no issue with my 212 and in fact loves it to death and you'll have to pry it off my dead hands.

However, what's lost in translation is that many here on the forum believe the 212 LP is flat and I have heard many said this many times. It is not. Saying it's flat is just inaccurate and can cause some potential buyers to make the wrong decision. That's why it's important to always allow people to speak their opinions without having to worry about being flamed.

Oh sure, I gotcha, understood.
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post #25859 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by beastaudio View Post
True, but at least from my experience with the regular ported T12's I had, I had them in the corner and STILL felt I needed more midbass at times. This is when you get into preference area though, not reference flat.

I never felt like the 212 HT's lacked in midbass, but I have to admit I wanted to see those drivers move!!

For me the amount of midbass I want is 100% content dependent. For some songs (movies too, but I don't notice as much) I like the mid bass boosted more, others less. I bet you are the same way?
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post #25860 of 29114 Old 11-21-2014, 09:26 AM
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Can anyone tell me why there are two Neutrik inputs on Growler?
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