Official JTR speaker thread - Page 869 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
Thread Tools
post #26041 of 26047 Old Today, 05:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
rcohen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolgeek View Post
In my opinion, our brain's ability to compensate, ignore, selective, etc, are far bigger than we think.
Yep, and that's how all the senses work. The power of acclimation is strong.

If you change the color temperature on a screen, within 20 minutes, you will auto white balance, and it will look the same. So, it's best to avoid the high color temperatures that look better short term, because they cause more eye strain and look the same long term.

If you drink Coke for a month, you'll prefer the taste of Coke. If you drink Pepsi for a month, you'll prefer the taste of Pepsi. Same goes for beer, liquor, cigarette brands (for those that still smoke), etc.

And your perception of sound includes auto EQs, similar to an auto white balance, and you prefer speakers timbres that you are acclimated to. Even volume works that way. If you turn the volume up, in 15 minutes, you'll acclimate to it, and not notice the difference (so don't turn it up too much and damage your hearing).

This is really apparent when using Dirac, since you have a tone of control to quickly change the sound, but you rapidly acclimate, so it's a moving target. If you come back an hour later, your perception is totally different.

When listening to other people's sound systems, the results are surprisingly random. Sometimes it sounds great to them, but awful to me, despite a lot of money and effort, but they are acclimated to it.

It must be strange to create and market audio products, when most of the differences are in your head, not in the products.

I'm not saying everything is the same. Not at all. The differences are just overlaid over lots of brain weirdness that makes an even bigger difference.
Frohlich, Archaea, RMK! and 2 others like this.

Last edited by rcohen; Today at 06:18 AM.
rcohen is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #26042 of 26047 Old Today, 07:23 AM
AVS Special Member
 
desertdome's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Elkhorn, NE
Posts: 1,856
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked: 302
I read these posts and my brain thinks we're somehow still talking about JTR.
desertdome is online now  
post #26043 of 26047 Unread Today, 09:07 AM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,059
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by desertdome View Post
I read these posts and my brain thinks we're somehow still talking about JTR.
To continue the tangential nature of the thread ... two weeks ago I installed the Marantz AV7702 pre after selling my Integra DHC-80.3. I also had a NIB Emotiva XMC-1 waiting in the wings but due to the Marantz early arrival it became the first replacement contender. I was interested in the Marantz due to another forum member who had gone from Integra to Marantz and he was adamant that the Marantz sounded much better. I got a good deal on the Marantz and a reasonable price for the Integra so it seemed like a worthwhile move. The Emotiva was an impulse buy (is there any other kind ) based upon an interest in Dirac which of course isn't as yet available.

I setup the Marantz and had no issues doing so. It automatically connected to my router and I did an upgrade before the first setup. I attempted to run Audyssey and immediately had to increase the gain on my LG amp that powers the 215RT's to get any bass out of the LFE channels. Once that was done, I ran an 8 position Audyssey and positioned the mic as suggested by the on screen display. Audyssey correctly set my 215's as full range and put the levels at the max cut (-12) probably due to the amp gain increase. As usual, the T8LP surrounds were set to 80Hz and the Slanted 8 surround backs were set at 60hz due to their dual boundary wall/ceiling placement. I changed the SB's to 80hz and ran through some movie and music demos. The bass seemed neutered and so I shut Audyssey down and ran the same demo material again and the bass was back strong as ever. I haven't run any OmniMic graphs yet but will do so over the holiday weekend. Another setup of Audyssey yielded the same results.

It is difficult to say if there is a significant difference between the Integra and the Marantz but it does sound great so I am assuming that they are at least equal. I am tempted to say it sounds better but I know better . We watched the latest X-Men film the other night and the surround effects were really good. I also found myself listening through the end credits as the musical score sounded so good it gave me the chills. I am on the side of "these products sound more alike than different" group and I'm sure DB test would prove that point. My preference for un EQ'd sound continues and Audyssey seems like a useless tool for my situation where I have a treated room and DSP capability via my Rane processor.

During the Marantz trial I decided to put the Emotiva up on Ebay and I received an offer I couldn't refuse and so it is was sold before I had a chance to give it a go. Honestly, I was concerned about all of the missed deadlines and bug issues with the Emo and along with my desire to install Atmos speakers, I took the safer course with the Marantz. So Atmos is the next challenge and I'm waiting impatiently for Jeff to offer up something.

So it goes.

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!

Last edited by RMK!; Today at 09:12 AM.
RMK! is online now  
post #26044 of 26047 Unread Today, 09:20 AM
Say No to Auto EQ
 
beastaudio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western NC
Posts: 8,086
Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 886 Post(s)
Liked: 982
Quote:
Originally Posted by lbrown105 View Post
the only real agenda will be fun. Lots of movie clips and music demos and maybe followed by a full movie. In fact it will likely turn into a full blown party as the night goes on.

I doubt we will be switching equipment for comparisons but I will be able to demonstrate Dirac and its ability to deliver target FR curves, and improvements on impulse response vs std PEQ. Also anyone interested in hearing the capability of 3OS's, 212HT's running of Lab Gruppen 10KQ and slant 8's from Sunfire TGA 7400 may find this GTG interesting.

The forecast for February is clear, loud, hi resolution audio with a chance of excess SPL for short periods.
That is basically how my last two g2g's were structured Just a fun day, with no REAL structure and an attempt to get through as much content as possible. First g2g went awry somewhat as the speaker switcher and all that jazz took up some substantial time, the second g2g we really managed to cruise through quite a bit of good stuff... Hanging out is almost my favorite part anyways
Gooddoc likes this.

(European models do not accept banana plugs.)

 

"If you done it, it ain't bragging." ~ Walt Whitman

 

AE TD12x SEOS12 Build

Beast's DIY Master Measurement Thread

DIY Emminence Coaxial Surround Thread

beastaudio is offline  
post #26045 of 26047 Unread Today, 10:53 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,142
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
To continue the tangential nature of the thread ... two weeks ago I installed the Marantz AV7702 pre after selling my Integra DHC-80.3. I also had a NIB Emotiva XMC-1 waiting in the wings but due to the Marantz early arrival it became the first replacement contender. I was interested in the Marantz due to another forum member who had gone from Integra to Marantz and he was adamant that the Marantz sounded much better. I got a good deal on the Marantz and a reasonable price for the Integra so it seemed like a worthwhile move. The Emotiva was an impulse buy (is there any other kind ) based upon an interest in Dirac which of course isn't as yet available.

I setup the Marantz and had no issues doing so. It automatically connected to my router and I did an upgrade before the first setup. I attempted to run Audyssey and immediately had to increase the gain on my LG amp that powers the 215RT's to get any bass out of the LFE channels. Once that was done, I ran an 8 position Audyssey and positioned the mic as suggested by the on screen display. Audyssey correctly set my 215's as full range and put the levels at the max cut (-12) probably due to the amp gain increase. As usual, the T8LP surrounds were set to 80Hz and the Slanted 8 surround backs were set at 60hz due to their dual boundary wall/ceiling placement. I changed the SB's to 80hz and ran through some movie and music demos. The bass seemed neutered and so I shut Audyssey down and ran the same demo material again and the bass was back strong as ever. I haven't run any OmniMic graphs yet but will do so over the holiday weekend. Another setup of Audyssey yielded the same results.

It is difficult to say if there is a significant difference between the Integra and the Marantz but it does sound great so I am assuming that they are at least equal. I am tempted to say it sounds better but I know better . We watched the latest X-Men film the other night and the surround effects were really good. I also found myself listening through the end credits as the musical score sounded so good it gave me the chills. I am on the side of "these products sound more alike than different" group and I'm sure DB test would prove that point. My preference for un EQ'd sound continues and Audyssey seems like a useless tool for my situation where I have a treated room and DSP capability via my Rane processor.

During the Marantz trial I decided to put the Emotiva up on Ebay and I received an offer I couldn't refuse and so it is was sold before I had a chance to give it a go. Honestly, I was concerned about all of the missed deadlines and bug issues with the Emo and along with my desire to install Atmos speakers, I took the safer course with the Marantz. So Atmos is the next challenge and I'm waiting impatiently for Jeff to offer up something.

So it goes.
Those are pretty much my exact thoughts having moved from my Denon 4311 to the Marantz. I can't say for sure it sounds better, but it might. I feel very confident saying it sounds at least as good.
RMK! likes this.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #26046 of 26047 Unread Today, 12:22 PM
Señor Member
 
RMK!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 95608
Posts: 6,059
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 359 Post(s)
Liked: 404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post
Those are pretty much my exact thoughts having moved from my Denon 4311 to the Marantz. I can't say for sure it sounds better, but it might. I feel very confident saying it sounds at least as good.
I would think that going from RCA to XLR might make a difference in gain settings if nothing else. No?

HToM

"Well, la di fricken da."!
RMK! is online now  
post #26047 of 26047 Unread Today, 12:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gooddoc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 4,142
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 554 Post(s)
Liked: 373
Quote:
Originally Posted by RMK! View Post
I would think that going from RCA to XLR might make a difference in gain settings if nothing else. No?
Hard to say because I was using these Art Clean Box Pros http://artproaudio.com/artcessories/.../cleanbox_pro/

They have adjustable gains so I was just dialing in whatever worked with the Denon. Now with the Marantz I have the gains on the amps dialed back about -8 dB and I'm within a couple dB of 0 in the Marantz channel gains after Audyssey set them.
Gooddoc is online now  
post #26048 of 26047 Unread Today, 12:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Archaea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 6,515
Mentioned: 38 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 700 Post(s)
Liked: 856
Denon and Marantz are owned by the same parent company and their upper models share a lot of the same guts.

Heck we just compared eight processors with dramatically different EQ's after their auto room EQ processors ran in KC, and even with the different EQs on the same exact speakers in the same room, people didn't really have strong enough opinions to go out and buy anything different than what they had. The highest scoring processor of the day was the Onkyo 636 with Atmos and no EQ applied to the L/R speakers or subs. The Onkyo 636 has a retail of $600. It was compared to a couple AVRs that have a retail of $3k. I feel pretty comfortable saying that if you spend about $600 on sale, or $1k retail on an AVR --- basically something mid-grade or higher from any of the major players -- you are going to get a similar experience to someone who buys the higest end AVR or prepro at signicantly more expense.
carp likes this.

"Without subs it's just background music - with subs it's the main event!"
Archaea's Theatre Room
2011 KC Sub Shootout
2012 KC Blind Sub Shootout
My Subwoofer Recommendations by Pricepoint
Archaea is online now  
Reply Speakers

Tags
228ht , captivator , Jtr , Jtr Noesis 212ht 212ht Lp
Gear in this thread



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off